Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
Just thought I'd throw my 2 cents in on the flash thing. I love CSS for yet another reason whenever I add flash to a site, since it usually involves a background image the same size as the movie, which when large (wider than 400px) can add to the wait time for the movie to run considerably. Usually its the largest thing in the movie. CSS solution: Put the flash movie into a div, then set the big background image you'd use for the movie as the background image on the div. Bang! Flash movie much smaller, loads much faster, big image cached, everyone's happy. Any thoughts? Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC 408 Route 47 South Cape May Court House, NJ 08210 (609) 335-3076 http://sitesbyjoe.com Genau Junior wrote: Christian Montoya wrote: The only problem with this is sometimes when you right-click (if you ever need to right click) you get the Flash right-click options. You might also get certain Flash cursors instead of the default browser cursors. On 9/26/05, *kvnmcwebn* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'And I agree Sam, having movement like that behind text is one of the worst things you can do.' I think that was meant as an example. If this trick is used in a more ambiant way it could be really useful. Maybe just have some image substitution for opera until a solution is found. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Definetley Flash cursosr are the best option to resolve this issue., ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:18:16 -0400, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CSS solution: Put the flash movie into a div, then set the big background image you'd use for the movie as the background image on the div. Bang! Flash movie much smaller, loads much faster, big image cached, everyone's happy. Any thoughts? Nice, but usually Flash can crush an image down smaller than say ImageReady/PS. Yes, it adds to the swf, but are you really saving any download time? -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
On 9/28/05, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:18:16 -0400, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CSS solution: Put the flash movie into a div, then set the big background image you'd use for the movie as the background image on the div. Bang! Flash movie much smaller, loads much faster, big image cached, everyone's happy. Any thoughts? Nice, but usually Flash can crush an image down smaller than say ImageReady/PS. Yes, it adds to the swf, but are you really saving any download time? I'd vote YES. While Flash does compress embedded bitmaps, I've always felt it does a shocking job of it. Medium sized files that look like garbage. I'd much rather use a limited palette PNG via CSS than cross my fingers and hope that Flash's JPEG algorithm doesn't destroy my image :) Thanks for the tip Joseph; I'm working on two projects at the moment that would probably benefit from this technique. cheers, Andrew.
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
The download time for the movie itself to start is reduced, obviously everything still needs to download, but in the sense where I don't need the image right away in the movie its swell. Joe Tom Livingston wrote: On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:18:16 -0400, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CSS solution: Put the flash movie into a div, then set the big background image you'd use for the movie as the background image on the div. Bang! Flash movie much smaller, loads much faster, big image cached, everyone's happy. Any thoughts? Nice, but usually Flash can crush an image down smaller than say ImageReady/PS. Yes, it adds to the swf, but are you really saving any download time? ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
Another added thought is using flash detection to change the background image if flash isn't seen via javascript, the replacement image can be the same as the background image but with some text on it that emulates what the flash would've been. Joseph R. B. Taylor Sites by Joe, LLC 408 Route 47 South Cape May Court House, NJ 08210 (609) 335-3076 http://sitesbyjoe.com Andrew Krespanis wrote: On 9/28/05, Tom Livingston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:18:16 -0400, Joseph R. B. Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: CSS solution: Put the flash movie into a div, then set the big background image you'd use for the movie as the background image on the div. Bang! Flash movie much smaller, loads much faster, big image cached, everyone's happy. Any thoughts? Nice, but usually Flash can crush an image down smaller than say ImageReady/PS. Yes, it adds to the swf, but are you really saving any download time? I'd vote YES. While Flash does compress embedded bitmaps, I've always felt it does a shocking job of it. Medium sized files that look like garbage. I'd much rather use a limited palette PNG via CSS than cross my fingers and hope that Flash's JPEG algorithm doesn't destroy my image :) Thanks for the tip Joseph; I'm working on two projects at the moment that would probably benefit from this technique. cheers, Andrew. N���.�Ȩ�X���+��i�� n�Z�֫v�+��h��y�m�쵩�j�l��.f���.�ץ�w�q�(��b��(��,�)උazX����)��i ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
Andrew I'd much rather use a limited palette PNG via CSS than cross my fingers and hope that Flash's JPEG algorithm doesn't destroy my image Agreed the jpg comppressor in flash is brutal on lower and med quality but why not use the png in flash? Obviously this wouldnt work if the background image had to come in on cue-or was faded or masked on the timeline, that being said im all for the background swf. Not sure if id go the extra mile to have a background behind the background swf though. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
'And I agree Sam, having movement like that behind text is one of the worst things you can do.' I think that was meant as an example. If this trick is used in a more ambiant way it could be really useful. Maybe just have some image substitution for opera until a solution is found. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
Jon Dawson wrote: http://www.jomni.com/sandbox/flash_bg/ Not sure I know what it's supposed to look like. Opera 8.5 is presenting 3 lines of text on a gray background (default, I think), and a moving white box behind the text. http://www.gunlaug.no/tos/alien/flashbgnd_op85_win2k.png Opera 7.54 show text but no moving box. Firefox 1.5b1 shows nothing but those two W3C buttons. Georg -- http://www.gunlaug.no ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
The only problem with this is sometimes when you right-click (if you ever need to right click) you get the Flash right-click options. You might also get certain Flash cursors instead of the default browser cursors. On 9/26/05, kvnmcwebn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'And I agree Sam, having movement like that behind text is one of the worstthings you can do.'I think that was meant as an example.If this trick is used in a more ambiant way it could be really useful. Maybe just have some image substitution for opera until a solution is found.**The discussion list forhttp://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help**
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
Christian Montoya wrote: The only problem with this is sometimes when you right-click (if you ever need to right click) you get the Flash right-click options. You might also get certain Flash cursors instead of the default browser cursors. On 9/26/05, *kvnmcwebn* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 'And I agree Sam, having movement like that behind text is one of the worst things you can do.' I think that was meant as an example. If this trick is used in a more ambiant way it could be really useful. Maybe just have some image substitution for opera until a solution is found. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** Definetley Flash cursosr are the best option to resolve this issue., ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
I remember coming across a fix for Opera that uses _javascript_, I just don't remember where I saw it now. Sorry! Eileen Russell http://www.bytedreams.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon DawsonSent: Sunday, September 25, 2005 6:57 PMTo: wsg@webstandardsgroup.orgSubject: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds Hello all,I read recently that it wasn't possible to have flash backgrounds so I thought I'd give it a go. Turns out it is possible but it won't work in Opera and I'm curious as to why it won't.http://www.jomni.com/sandbox/flash_bg/Any ideas?Thanks,Jon BEGIN:VCARD VERSION:2.1 N:;bytedreams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) FN:bytedreams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) EMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:[EMAIL PROTECTED] REV:20050718T045116Z END:VCARD
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
or so sublte its unnoticable and it increases the overall complexity of the site SS kvnmcwebn wrote: 'And I agree Sam, having movement like that behind text is one of the worst things you can do.' I think that was meant as an example. If this trick is used in a more ambiant way it could be really useful. Maybe just have some image substitution for opera until a solution is found. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
They probally meant setting it in CSS. Of course it's possible putting it over the top.Have you tried simple things such as z-index?Do you have a screenshot of what happens for those of us who have yet to install Opera.On 26 Sep 2005, at 00:57, Jon Dawson wrote:Hello all, I read recently that it wasn't possible to have flash backgrounds so I thought I'd give it a go. Turns out it is possible but it won't work in Opera and I'm curious as to why it won't. http://www.jomni.com/sandbox/flash_bg/ Any ideas? Thanks, Jon
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
I thought it was not possible, since flash is suppose to be rendered outside the browser and place on top by the OS at least for windows anyway. I use flash some times and am not dead against it, I viewed you example in disbelief not expecting it to work I did in IE. I think it would in FF, but I have flash blocker install (I don't like flash always) It also did in Opera too Having said that its a really Bad idea to progress and use it in a site. I expect your going to get alarmed responses to this post Buzy backgrounds make text hard to read. simple fact. Movement is buzy. The question this post also raises in when is it time to tell the client that they are asking for something that is detremental to the site overall. heres a list of people I consider when making a site 1. The User 2. Site Owner 3. Site Maintainer anyway it was interesting, off the wall aswell, atb - S Jon Dawson wrote: Hello all, I read recently that it wasn't possible to have flash backgrounds so I thought I'd give it a go. Turns out it is possible but it won't work in Opera and I'm curious as to why it won't. http://www.jomni.com/sandbox/flash_bg/ Any ideas? Thanks, Jon ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
It worked in IE, Firefox and Netscape but in Opera it just displays the swf and leaves no trace of the text. And I agree Sam, having movement like that behind text is one of the worst things you can do. It was more a Hey this is possible after all thing. For instance you could create a much larger swf with a subtle misty cloud effect whose movements are barely visible Then you could have your site content over the top of it. Might look nice :)
Re: [WSG] Using CSS for Flash backgrounds
You'd need to be careful with this obviously, but it's handy to know it can be done. I don't think that a Flash background is necessarily bad in itself - it all depends on *how* it's done. On 26/09/05, Jon Dawson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It worked in IE, Firefox and Netscape but in Opera it just displays the swf and leaves no trace of the text. And I agree Sam, having movement like that behind text is one of the worst things you can do. It was more a Hey this is possible after all thing. For instance you could create a much larger swf with a subtle misty cloud effect whose movements are barely visible Then you could have your site content over the top of it. Might look nice :) -- Jason Foss http://www.almost-anything.com.au http://www.waterfallweb.net Windows Messenger: [EMAIL PROTECTED] North Rockhampton, Queensland, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
