Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com
On 22/5/05 10:23 AM, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thierry Koblentz wrote: I was talking about the user, not the designer. Most browsers do not offer a Print Preview option Getting off topic (so perhaps email me back off list) but: which browsers exactly? I can't speak for all browsers, but I do find it annoying that Firefox on Windows has the print preview option, but Firefox on the Mac does not (latest versions). Makes it hard to recommend for verifying print output (assuming it would be at all accurate in the first place). Kevin -- Kevin Futter Webmaster, St. Bernard's College http://www.sbc.melb.catholic.edu.au/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Site check - lastminute.com
On 5/23/05 11:33 PM Kevin Futter [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent this out: I can't speak for all browsers, but I do find it annoying that Firefox on Windows has the print preview option, but Firefox on the Mac does not (latest versions). Makes it hard to recommend for verifying print output (assuming it would be at all accurate in the first place). On FF Mac, just choose File Print and then click on Preview button. No? Hth, Rick Faaberg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Dropdown menu
Nothing wrong with styling states with CSS, but there is plenty wrong with using javascript to overwrite CSS states when you could do exactly the same thing with CSS. However, adding javascript to make a browser work like the others do is fine, but you should try to compress it some what, to save download times. On 5/24/05, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frederic Fery wrote: on your site is says What's Bad We're using CSS for another purpose than presentation. why is it that bad? It is said that flyout and dropdown menus belong to the behavior layer and that CSS should not be used to accomplish such things. Also, because this technique relies on CSS *and* Scripting it overlaps 2 layers; and that's supposed to be bad too ;-) IMO, there is even a third problem, and it is about usability: there is no delay that can be set regarding the collapsing of the nested lists. Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Rowan Lewis (AKA. The Wolf) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Definition Lists
Thanks Guys much apreciated. On 5/20/05, Lea de Groot [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Fri, 20 May 2005 15:17:19 +0100, Peter Costello wrote: However, even though theres only one item, the dl seems like the most appropriate tag. Yep, if semantically its a list which just happens to have only one item to have only one item then a definition list makes sense. HIH Lea -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- -- Peter Costello www.domestik.net ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Dropdown menu
On 5/24/05, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is said that flyout and dropdown menus belong to the behavior layer and that CSS should not be used to accomplish such things. Also, because this technique relies on CSS *and* Scripting it overlaps 2 layers; and that's supposed to be bad too ;-) IMO, there is even a third problem, and it is about usability: there is no delay that can be set regarding the collapsing of the nested lists. Who is saying that? Im just wondering - Cause sometimes it seems to me that alot of effort is put into making something correct way beyond just adhering to the webstandards. Like asking whether it is ok to use list definitions when the list only has a single item etc. Maybe i have misundertsood something but does it really matter as long as you follow the standards and your page validates? - Michael ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Dropdown menu
On Tue, 2005-05-24 at 14:00 +0200, Michael Lykke wrote: Im just wondering - Cause sometimes it seems to me that alot of effort is put into making something correct way beyond just adhering to the webstandards. Like asking whether it is ok to use list definitions when the list only has a single item etc. Maybe i have misundertsood something but does it really matter as long as you follow the standards and your page validates? Not in terms of web standards themselves, but certainly in terms of their purpose. They exist to ensure accessibility, rather than guidelines for their own sake. For example, you can have a perfectly validating table-based layout that remains inaccessible. You can have a website which is purely image-based that is 'valid', although semantically null. Best practises and doing things the 'correct' way are beyond the letter of web standards, but adhere to their spirit - namely, ensuring a more meaningful and accessible web. Kind Regards, Joshua Street base10solutions Website: http://www.base10solutions.com.au/ Phone: (02) 9898-0060 Fax: (02) 8572-6021 Mobile: 0425 808 469 Multimedia Development Agency E-mails and any attachments sent from base10solutions are to be regarded as confidential. Please do not distribute or publish any of the contents of this e-mail without the senders consent. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by replying to the e-mail, and then delete the message without making copies or using it in any way. Although base10solutions takes precautions to ensure that e-mail sent from our accounts are free of viruses, we encourage recipients to undertake their own virus scan on each e-mail before opening, as base10solutions accepts no responsibility for loss or damage caused by the contents of this e-mail. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Dropdown menu
Rowan Lewis wrote: Nothing wrong with styling states with CSS, but there is plenty wrong with using javascript to overwrite CSS states when you could do exactly the same thing with CSS. However, adding javascript to make a browser work like the others do is fine, but you should try to compress it some what, to save download times. I'm curious to know if you're saying that as a general rule or if it relates to that menu in particular. Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] Fluidity help
Hello list, Need a little help. I am building a page - http://66.155.251.18/platformrg.com/ - that was designed in a hard grid. Can I tweak this so that when text is scaled up, the boxes expand, at least vertically, to allow for the larger type as well as having the boxes maintain a min-height when scaled down - especially in the row that contains the image? I have trouble wrapping my head around the 'fluid thing'. I really can't change any design elements at this point. That's a whole education thing that has yet to happen with designers here... I like the way stopdesign.com works (up to a certain size, all is well readable/useable)... Also, in IE 5.5Win, there is something up with the borders. Anyone see what that is? -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com --- www.browsehappy.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluidity help
Hi Tom Try changing the div widths form px to em, this allows it to stretch although I'm not sure what the conversion is, I think it's dependent on a few other things. Hope this helps some Graham Bancroft. ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluidity help
Tom Livingston wrote: Hello list, Need a little help. I am building a page - http://66.155.251.18/platformrg.com/ - that was designed in a hard grid. Can I tweak this so that when text is scaled up, the boxes expand, at least vertically, to allow for the larger type as well as having the boxes maintain a min-height when scaled down - especially in the row that contains the image? I have trouble wrapping my head around the 'fluid thing'. I really can't change any design elements at Also, in IE 5.5Win, there is something up with the borders. Anyone see what that is? I think it'd be easier to start from scratch. IMO, this layout relies too much on the position attribute. Use a 3 cols CSS layout that works, float the buildings image and use the footer for your What's new area. Re: IE5, I didn't check but there is a good chance that your problem comes from its broken box model (the relationship between dimension of the box, border and padding). Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CSS selectors: next adjacent element?
I know in CSS, there is a method to select the 'first child' of an element, as well as the 'first adjacent element', within an element. However, is there a way to select the 'next adjacent element' - within the same parent? Example: div class=picture /div h3Headline/h3 pParagraph text/p I want to be able to select *only the h3 elements, which follow a div class=picture element*. Or, to make it even better - I'd like to be able to select *any element* that follows a div class=picture element. Now, I could class every element that follows a div class=picture element, but I'd rather not. Anyone know if support for this exists, in CSS2 or 3? Thanks. MATTHOM ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS selectors: next adjacent element?
Do you mean something like
div.picture + h3 {...}
I'm pretty sure I mean that - I am, perhaps, confused on what the plus
(+) sign does.
I was under the impression that your example meant this:
div class=picture
h3.../h3
/div
.. rather than this:
div class=picture
...
/div
h3.../h3
-Matthom
On 5/24/05, Jan Brasna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Do you mean something like
div.picture + h3 {...}
?
--
Jan Brasna aka JohnyB :: www.alphanumeric.cz | www.janbrasna.com
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Re: [WSG] CSS selectors: next adjacent element?
Matt Thommes wrote: I'm pretty sure I mean that - I am, perhaps, confused on what the plus (+) sign does. I was under the impression that your example meant this: Have a good read through http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluidity help
On May 24, 2005, at 12:22 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I think it'd be easier to start from scratch. My first reaction was... Yikes!, Are you nuts!, but then as I looked at it the light bulb came on over my head. I did redo it, although it isn't fabulous, it's useable at a couple of clicks up in size (FF Mac) and I'm happy with that. It's definitely better. I am still lost with the IE5.5Win issue (Box model??). Can anyone see where I need to hack it? Thanks! -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com --- www.browsehappy.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluidity help
On May 24, 2005, at 2:23 PM, Tom Livingston wrote: On May 24, 2005, at 12:22 PM, Thierry Koblentz wrote: I think it'd be easier to start from scratch. My first reaction was... Yikes!, Are you nuts! Me again, http://66.155.251.18/platformrg.com/people/ In IE5.5/6Win (and Opera 8 MAC) I am seeing extra space under the image and can't figure out where the heck it's coming from. Can you? TIA -- Tom Livingston Senior Multimedia Artist Media Logic www.mlinc.com --- www.browsehappy.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Fluidity help
Tom Livingston wrote: My first reaction was... Yikes!, Are you nuts! Me again, http://66.155.251.18/platformrg.com/people/ In IE5.5/6Win (and Opera 8 MAC) I am seeing extra space under the image and can't figure out where the heck it's coming from. Can you? This is normal behavior. It's because your left bar is taller than the picture. Remove padding on your elements in the sidebar and you'll see that the footer moves up and comes touching your image. If you didn't set your font-size value using pixels, you could have seen the same effects by simply reducing text-size in MSIE. Re: the box model, if you have a 100px wide box with a 1px border around it. In IE5 that box is 100pixel wide (including the border), but in other browser (including IE6 unless it is in quirks mode), that box will be 102pixels wide. That's what you've small differences in IE5 with the borders. And it works the same with padding. HTH, Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS Dropdown menu
I'm just saying that its silly to reinvent things like :hover with javascript and DOM but its perfectly fine to write javascript to fix browser incompatability (IE doesn't support :hover on all elements). On 5/25/05, Thierry Koblentz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Rowan Lewis wrote: Nothing wrong with styling states with CSS, but there is plenty wrong with using javascript to overwrite CSS states when you could do exactly the same thing with CSS. However, adding javascript to make a browser work like the others do is fine, but you should try to compress it some what, to save download times. I'm curious to know if you're saying that as a general rule or if it relates to that menu in particular. Thierry | http://www.TJKDesign.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Rowan Lewis (AKA. The Wolf) ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] CMS list archive?
Hi Russ or Peter, Where can I get to CMS list archive on WSG website? I don't see it in mail-archive.com. I saw a couple of thread on http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/archive.cfm after logged in, but it's hard to find related topic that I am interested in. It mix with WSG thread. Regards, tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] CMS list archive?
Hi tee, As you've found both lists are bundled together in the local archive, but the CMS list is separate in mail-archive.com (which Russ Weakley redesigned for them a while back btw): http://www.mail-archive.com/cms%40webstandardsgroup.org/ Or (a little easier to remember) http://www.mail-archive.com/cms@webstandardsgroup.org/ Regards, Peter -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of tee Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 9:48 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: [WSG] CMS list archive? Hi Russ or Peter, Where can I get to CMS list archive on WSG website? I don't see it in mail-archive.com. I saw a couple of thread on http://webstandardsgroup.org/manage/archive.cfm after logged in, but it's hard to find related topic that I am interested in. It mix with WSG thread. Regards, tee ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS selectors: next adjacent element?
How well supported is this method - the +?? Any documentation of that? Patrick H. Lauke wrote: Matt Thommes wrote: I'm pretty sure I mean that - I am, perhaps, confused on what the plus (+) sign does. I was under the impression that your example meant this: Have a good read through http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] CSS selectors: next adjacent element?
On 25 May 2005, at 9:42 am, Chris Stratford wrote: How well supported is this method - the +?? Any documentation of that? The usual suspects: Firefox, Safari, Omniweb, Opera, IE Mac all handle this correctly. For the browser with way too much market share, you'll need Dean's IE7. Philippe ---/--- Philippe Wittenbergh now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/ code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/ IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
[WSG] change to Brisbane meeting
subtitle: I blew it! OK, small change to the June Brisbane Meeting - its the 14th, not the 7th! Venue and details unchanged - I just got the date wrong. Oops! (How I ever thought the 2nd tuesday in the month could be the 7th, I don't know. I'll blame it on lack of sleep and excessive stress. :( ) So, please let us know if this affects your attendance plans, and if you are planning to attend and haven't yet, please do RSVP, or we might run out of pizza (oh, the horror!) Repeat: the next Brisbane WSG meeting is on Tuesday, June 14. warmly, Lea -- Lea de Groot WSG Core member ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] A way to skip a Flash-intro if Flash is not installed?
On 5/24/05, Patrick H. Lauke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out of interest: why not simply provide the alternative content inside the OBJECT element, as per specification? If the OBJECT itself can't be displayed (e.g. Flash is not installed), then the alternative is displayed...all without getting any scripting involved. I thought that if Flash wasn't installed, the browser would prompt you to download and install it rather than just displaying the alternate content? I use JavaScript detection for cases where the Flash content is not important and I don't want the user to be bugged to install Flash every time they visit the page. I could be wrong - I don't think I tested it with the alterate content actually in the object tag. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] change to Brisbane meeting
Thanks for your email. Please note that I'm out of the office today attending an industry exhibition. I'll respond to your email when I return tomorrow. Please don't reply to this address: it will bounce into cyberspace (to avoid mail looping problems). Kind regards, Dean -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Dean Kennedy * Terrabyte Communications Advertising, Marketing and Design 6/3-7 Turner Street, Moonee Ponds 3039 PO Box 88, Brunswick West 3055 Phone: (03) 9372 0055 Fax: (03) 9923 6390 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.terrabyte.dc.com.au -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: Re: [WSG] A way to skip a Flash-intro if Flash is not installed?
Thanks for your email. Please note that I'm out of the office today attending an industry exhibition. I'll respond to your email when I return tomorrow. Please don't reply to this address: it will bounce into cyberspace (to avoid mail looping problems). Kind regards, Dean -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Dean Kennedy * Terrabyte Communications Advertising, Marketing and Design 6/3-7 Turner Street, Moonee Ponds 3039 PO Box 88, Brunswick West 3055 Phone: (03) 9372 0055 Fax: (03) 9923 6390 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: www.terrabyte.dc.com.au -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] A way to skip a Flash-intro if Flash is not installed?
I thought that if Flash wasn't installed, the browser would prompt you to download and install it rather than just displaying the alternate content? Not necessarily - plus many browsers now give the option to *disable* the plugin which may result in different behaviour. For example I use Opera 8 with plugins disabled; which simply returns the alternate content (if any) as per specification. What I've found is most Flash sites just return a blank screen (oddly enough, they don't turn up in Google much either). h -- --- http://www.200ok.com.au/ --- The future has arrived; it's just not --- evenly distributed. - William Gibson ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] A way to skip a Flash-intro if Flash is not installed?
I'm not here to bash Flash - used properly, I'm a big fan. My concern when I developed the JavaScript detection method we use was to find a way that would work seamlessly as expected without nagging the user in as many different situations and browsers as possible - including IE5 which seems a bit funny in how it handles plugins. JavaScript detection seemed to be the safest way. K. -- Kay Smoljak http://kay.smoljak.com/ On 5/25/05, heretic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I thought that if Flash wasn't installed, the browser would prompt you to download and install it rather than just displaying the alternate content? Not necessarily - plus many browsers now give the option to *disable* the plugin which may result in different behaviour. For example I use Opera 8 with plugins disabled; which simply returns the alternate content (if any) as per specification. What I've found is most Flash sites just return a blank screen (oddly enough, they don't turn up in Google much either). ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
