Re: [Xenomai-core] Xenomai in Debian
Jan Kiszka wrote: > Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: >> Jan Kiszka wrote: >>> Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: Roland Stigge wrote: > Hi Gilles, > > first - I'm sorry if you sometimes feel offended by my work on Xenomai > in Debian. I understand that you are very much connected to your project > and want to have it working perfectly everywhere. > > Unfortunately, my time to work on this is limited and the last uploads > were work in progress - to provide latest Xenomai in Debian. Further > work on it was planned for this weekend. > > But please also understand that Debian developers will possibly > prioritize work on upstream packages where they feel their work is > appreciated. So please think about your tone before sending email and > driving people away from Xenomai. What matters for me is Xenomai users, not the Debian package maintainer. I am almost thinking that I would prefer Xenomai not having an "official" Debian package which has been shipping for monthes with buggy adeos patches and lagging behind upstream development. >>> Hey guys, this leads to nothing. >>> >>> I agree with Gilles that a distro package that could appear to users >>> like it's as mature as upstream while it isn't does not help anyone. But >>> not all the work here is paid, and resources will remain limited. So >>> Roland's remark is valid as well that not everything can be done >>> instantly in The Perfect Way. >>> >>> The only way to resolve this without killing the idea of ready-to-use >>> Xenomai package is to openly discuss the problems of both sides and try >>> to find optimal solutions. I also bet Roland would be happy about >>> patch-based discussions - just like we are for upstream. Just let the >>> discussion take place here on this list, in an objective manner, and >>> ideally before things may show up in releases etc. >> As I already said, I think the proper place to discuss all this is on >> the Xenomai mailing list. I have no problem renaming sigtest, at all, I >> do not even require a patch to do it. The point is that we did not even >> knew that it generated a conflict. And for me this is the real problem, >> I am all for helping Roland generating good packages, but if he does not >> want to talk to us, what choice do we have? >> > > We can only ask him kindly to remember xenomai-c...@gna.org. This looks pointless, as we already had that argument in may 2008. -- Gilles. ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] Xenomai in Debian
Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: > Jan Kiszka wrote: >> Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: >>> Roland Stigge wrote: Hi Gilles, first - I'm sorry if you sometimes feel offended by my work on Xenomai in Debian. I understand that you are very much connected to your project and want to have it working perfectly everywhere. Unfortunately, my time to work on this is limited and the last uploads were work in progress - to provide latest Xenomai in Debian. Further work on it was planned for this weekend. But please also understand that Debian developers will possibly prioritize work on upstream packages where they feel their work is appreciated. So please think about your tone before sending email and driving people away from Xenomai. >>> What matters for me is Xenomai users, not the Debian package maintainer. >>> I am almost thinking that I would prefer Xenomai not having an >>> "official" Debian package which has been shipping for monthes with buggy >>> adeos patches and lagging behind upstream development. >> Hey guys, this leads to nothing. >> >> I agree with Gilles that a distro package that could appear to users >> like it's as mature as upstream while it isn't does not help anyone. But >> not all the work here is paid, and resources will remain limited. So >> Roland's remark is valid as well that not everything can be done >> instantly in The Perfect Way. >> >> The only way to resolve this without killing the idea of ready-to-use >> Xenomai package is to openly discuss the problems of both sides and try >> to find optimal solutions. I also bet Roland would be happy about >> patch-based discussions - just like we are for upstream. Just let the >> discussion take place here on this list, in an objective manner, and >> ideally before things may show up in releases etc. > > As I already said, I think the proper place to discuss all this is on > the Xenomai mailing list. I have no problem renaming sigtest, at all, I > do not even require a patch to do it. The point is that we did not even > knew that it generated a conflict. And for me this is the real problem, > I am all for helping Roland generating good packages, but if he does not > want to talk to us, what choice do we have? > We can only ask him kindly to remember xenomai-c...@gna.org. Jan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] Xenomai in Debian
Jan Kiszka wrote: > Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: >> Roland Stigge wrote: >>> Hi Gilles, >>> >>> first - I'm sorry if you sometimes feel offended by my work on Xenomai >>> in Debian. I understand that you are very much connected to your project >>> and want to have it working perfectly everywhere. >>> >>> Unfortunately, my time to work on this is limited and the last uploads >>> were work in progress - to provide latest Xenomai in Debian. Further >>> work on it was planned for this weekend. >>> >>> But please also understand that Debian developers will possibly >>> prioritize work on upstream packages where they feel their work is >>> appreciated. So please think about your tone before sending email and >>> driving people away from Xenomai. >> What matters for me is Xenomai users, not the Debian package maintainer. >> I am almost thinking that I would prefer Xenomai not having an >> "official" Debian package which has been shipping for monthes with buggy >> adeos patches and lagging behind upstream development. > > Hey guys, this leads to nothing. > > I agree with Gilles that a distro package that could appear to users > like it's as mature as upstream while it isn't does not help anyone. But > not all the work here is paid, and resources will remain limited. So > Roland's remark is valid as well that not everything can be done > instantly in The Perfect Way. > > The only way to resolve this without killing the idea of ready-to-use > Xenomai package is to openly discuss the problems of both sides and try > to find optimal solutions. I also bet Roland would be happy about > patch-based discussions - just like we are for upstream. Just let the > discussion take place here on this list, in an objective manner, and > ideally before things may show up in releases etc. As I already said, I think the proper place to discuss all this is on the Xenomai mailing list. I have no problem renaming sigtest, at all, I do not even require a patch to do it. The point is that we did not even knew that it generated a conflict. And for me this is the real problem, I am all for helping Roland generating good packages, but if he does not want to talk to us, what choice do we have? -- Gilles. ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] Xenomai in Debian
Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote: > Roland Stigge wrote: >> Hi Gilles, >> >> first - I'm sorry if you sometimes feel offended by my work on Xenomai >> in Debian. I understand that you are very much connected to your project >> and want to have it working perfectly everywhere. >> >> Unfortunately, my time to work on this is limited and the last uploads >> were work in progress - to provide latest Xenomai in Debian. Further >> work on it was planned for this weekend. >> >> But please also understand that Debian developers will possibly >> prioritize work on upstream packages where they feel their work is >> appreciated. So please think about your tone before sending email and >> driving people away from Xenomai. > > What matters for me is Xenomai users, not the Debian package maintainer. > I am almost thinking that I would prefer Xenomai not having an > "official" Debian package which has been shipping for monthes with buggy > adeos patches and lagging behind upstream development. Hey guys, this leads to nothing. I agree with Gilles that a distro package that could appear to users like it's as mature as upstream while it isn't does not help anyone. But not all the work here is paid, and resources will remain limited. So Roland's remark is valid as well that not everything can be done instantly in The Perfect Way. The only way to resolve this without killing the idea of ready-to-use Xenomai package is to openly discuss the problems of both sides and try to find optimal solutions. I also bet Roland would be happy about patch-based discussions - just like we are for upstream. Just let the discussion take place here on this list, in an objective manner, and ideally before things may show up in releases etc. Jan signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] Xenomai in Debian
Roland Stigge wrote: > Hi Gilles, > > first - I'm sorry if you sometimes feel offended by my work on Xenomai > in Debian. I understand that you are very much connected to your project > and want to have it working perfectly everywhere. > > Unfortunately, my time to work on this is limited and the last uploads > were work in progress - to provide latest Xenomai in Debian. Further > work on it was planned for this weekend. > > But please also understand that Debian developers will possibly > prioritize work on upstream packages where they feel their work is > appreciated. So please think about your tone before sending email and > driving people away from Xenomai. What matters for me is Xenomai users, not the Debian package maintainer. I am almost thinking that I would prefer Xenomai not having an "official" Debian package which has been shipping for monthes with buggy adeos patches and lagging behind upstream development. -- Gilles. ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
Re: [Xenomai-core] Xenomai in Debian
Hi Gilles,
first - I'm sorry if you sometimes feel offended by my work on Xenomai
in Debian. I understand that you are very much connected to your project
and want to have it working perfectly everywhere.
Unfortunately, my time to work on this is limited and the last uploads
were work in progress - to provide latest Xenomai in Debian. Further
work on it was planned for this weekend.
But please also understand that Debian developers will possibly
prioritize work on upstream packages where they feel their work is
appreciated. So please think about your tone before sending email and
driving people away from Xenomai.
Gilles Chanteperdrix wrote:
> - the package ships with patches for 2.6.24. These I-pipe patches are
> outdated and have been publicly announced as being bogus on the Xenomai
> mailing lists;
Thanks for pointing that out! Will be removed.
> - xenomai 2.5.1 seems to have introduced a conflict with sigtest, my
> fault, you seem to have fixed this by prefixing all xenomai binaries
> with xenomai-, there was a simple solution which would have been for us
> to rename only sigtest.
First, I was thinking about this solution also, of course. But many of
the Xenomai binaries' names are very generic and not easily recognizable
as related to Xenomai ("latency", "arith", etc.). (Please consider that
there are 1s of binaries in Debian's /usr/bin.) So I decided to
rename them all, for consistency. Therefore, also "xenomai-xeno-config".
:-) It's one exception. I was completely aware of this and also didn't
find it very beautiful.
The alternative would have been a separate directory for them, e.g.
somewhere under /usr/lib/xenomai. But that would lead to them not being
available in user's PATHs. So I decided otherwise.
> This looks to me like a bad idea. You are breaking the documented user
> interface.
Feel free to make suggestions for improvement.
> I have already asked publicly for this, but will ask it once again:
> please inform the xenomai mailing list of the debian xenomai package
> bugs, and get us involved in their resolution.
I'm doing this if it concerns you. E.g. your non-PIC bug. Problems with
Debian packaging are Debian's task. I'm open to all suggestions, but
please CC me, I'm not following the Xenomai list so closely.
> Because the debian packaging of xenomai simply do not
> meets the quality standards of the Xenomai project.
Please stop. Debian sid is the equivalent of a development branch of
Xenomai. It's unreleased code. I also don't flame you for bugs in
Xenomai but instead send patches. So please let's work friendly each one
on his own project and don't flame.
Thanks for considering.
bye,
Roland
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Re: [Xenomai-core] Xenomai in Debian
Roland Stigge wrote: > Hi, > > I'm just working on the Xenomai 2.5.1 Debian package and encountered > non-PIC code (evil! ;-) in the shared libraries (skins libraries). Hi Roland, I just had a look at the Debian package, and there are a few things that I do not like: - the package ships with patches for 2.6.24. These I-pipe patches are outdated and have been publicly announced as being bogus on the Xenomai mailing lists; - xenomai 2.5.1 seems to have introduced a conflict with sigtest, my fault, you seem to have fixed this by prefixing all xenomai binaries with xenomai-, there was a simple solution which would have been for us to rename only sigtest. This looks to me like a bad idea. You are breaking the documented user interface. Applications which were compiling for older versions of xenomai using xeno-config will simply stop working with the new version, not because of Xenomai incompatibilities, but simply because of a decision of the maintainer of Xenomai Debian package. Not mentioning how preposterous it looks to have things called xenomai-xeno-config. I have already asked publicly for this, but will ask it once again: please inform the xenomai mailing list of the debian xenomai package bugs, and get us involved in their resolution. I do not really understand why you are refusing to do this. As far as I know, we never refused any patch coming from you. If you refuse to comply to this simple request, I will have to advise publicly people not to use the "official" debian packages, including on the xenomai project's wiki, and in the text documentation which ships with Xenomai. Because the debian packaging of xenomai simply do not meets the quality standards of the Xenomai project. I do not mean that our quality is perfect, but one of the motto of the Xenomai project is to avoid breaking uselessly the interfaces, and you just did it. Thanks in advance. Regards. -- Gilles. ___ Xenomai-core mailing list Xenomai-core@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/xenomai-core
