Goodbye

[elfy]

it was good

I just cannot deal with all the fucking idiots anymore

people like bkeransa and riddell really need to fuck off and make the 
whole world better




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Package Testing Wily Cycle

[elfy]

This cycle we're not going to be using the package tracker at all. [1]

We'll be relying on users out there who are able to run tests when they 
can to flag issues, for example with the applications they are using or 
with odd theme problems.


More importantly if you are able to run the dev version for longer 
periods of time, then your observations and reports are likely to be 
more useful than a one-time run of any predetermined test we have.


If in addition you are able to run the dev version with our daily 
testing PPA's that will be of great help to the dev's.


For themes and icons use the Shimmer daily PPA. This PPA will include 
updates to the LibreOffice theme we will be using.


https://launchpad.net/~shimmerproject/+archive/ubuntu/daily?field.series_filter=wily

For packages that we include for testing use the Staging PPA, currently 
this only has 2 packages, as the cycle ages this is likely to increase.


https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging?field.series_filter=wily

Please use ubuntu-bug package to send bugs through to Launchpad when you 
find them. Once Launchpad has finished its processing please ensure that 
it is tagged with wily.


When you run into bugs for packages included in PPAs ubuntu-bug will not 
let you automatically send bug to Launchpad. In these cases you should 
be able to manually enter your bug.


Manually reporting bugs means that you will need to enter the wily tag 
yourself, this can be found near the bottom of the page under Extra Options.


It also helps if bugs you find with xfce packages could be reported on 
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/


We can then link the xfce bug to the Launchpad bug you've reported.

As always, people are happy to help if you let them - either on mailing 
list here or the IRC channel.


For more information on contributing to our QA please visit 
http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/


[1] http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker

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Community Meeting

[elfy]

The next meeting is scheduled for Friday 5th June at 12:30 UTC. [1]

Current agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings

The meeting is in the team devel channel #xubuntu-devel on irc.freenode.net

[1] 
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20150605T1230&p1=%3A&ah=1


thanks


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Re: Welcome Jackson Doak to Xubuntu Developers!

[elfy]

On 25/05/15 22:50, Sean Davis wrote:

Hey everyone,

After some discussion with Simon and Unit193, we've decided to add 
Jackson (Noskcaj) to the Xubuntu Developers team.  Jackson has been 
around the team for quite some time and has contributing substantially 
to packaging, notably preparing packages for the Xfce 4.12 transition 
last cycle.


Welcome aboard Jackson!

Thanks,
Sean Davis (bluesabre)
Xubuntu Technical Lead



Welcome Jackson :)
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Re: TEAM: Wily Werewolf Package Testing

[elfy]

On 25/05/15 18:51, elfy wrote:

On 25/05/15 18:28, saqman2060 wrote:

[snip]
What I am trying to say, make the testing a little more interesting. 
Something new every cycle. Also, we can remove the test for a feature 
and create another test for a feature that was not covered. In this 
attempt, we don't over extend the testcase itself.


Istimsak Abdulbasir.


What I am trying to say is that unless someone has a _real_ reason to 
run with package testing - then we will not be doing it.


I'm certainly not going to get into creating more tests for people not 
to do in the hope that magically we get more testers - and by more I 
really don't mean 4 instead of 2.


These tests, creating new testsuites and all the other things that 
need to be done in order for them to be usable take time - they don't 
just happen.


I'm all for ideas, but this thread is about

I plan to not do so this cycle unless anyone thinks that we should
- and just thinking we should isn't likely to change my mind

I've seen nothing to change my mind.


That said - with the next cycle being LTS it's always possible we change 
back for that. Which gives us a cycle to think about and deal with that.
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Re: TEAM: Wily Werewolf Package Testing

[elfy]

On 25/05/15 18:28, saqman2060 wrote:

[snip]
What I am trying to say, make the testing a little more interesting. 
Something new every cycle. Also, we can remove the test for a feature 
and create another test for a feature that was not covered. In this 
attempt, we don't over extend the testcase itself.


Istimsak Abdulbasir.


What I am trying to say is that unless someone has a _real_ reason to 
run with package testing - then we will not be doing it.


I'm certainly not going to get into creating more tests for people not 
to do in the hope that magically we get more testers - and by more I 
really don't mean 4 instead of 2.


These tests, creating new testsuites and all the other things that need 
to be done in order for them to be usable take time - they don't just 
happen.


I'm all for ideas, but this thread is about

   I plan to not do so this cycle unless anyone thinks that we should -
   and just thinking we should isn't likely to change my mind

I've seen nothing to change my mind.
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Re: TEAM: Wily Werewolf Package Testing

[elfy]

On 25/05/15 02:33, Istimsak Abdulbasir wrote:



[snip]
That should be mandatory to use the developing image like a production 
system. After all, the only way to really test it is to use.



Some do, and can. Other's are not able to run a dev system this early.


Also, the current testcases we have for packages and iso are the same. 
They need to change or be upgrade with new procedures. We can test the 
packages over and over only to confirm what worked during the last 
development cycle.



What's different about iso's this cycle?

Every cycle should have new upgraded testcases. Rather testing basic 
functionality, the testcases should really push the system. The 
objective should be to try and break the system then fix it.



Right.

And how do you think we can do that. If people don't run a 5 minute test 
what makes you think they would do more?


The whole point of this thread is that there is next to no package 
testing done and thus the work that 2 or 3 people do /every /cycle is 
wasted.



[snip]


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Re: Vivid QA incentives report

[elfy]

On 24/05/15 17:21, elfy wrote:

[snip]

What would be a better idea in my opinion would be a testing/qa 
specific meeting. If there are enough people interested in that type 
of thing then maybe start a m/l thread and we can see who's up for it 
- then set up a meeting in #xubuntu-devel when all (or the majority) 
can attend.


(always wait an hour before sending for the idea you've not thought of 
quite)


or I could set up an etherpad for us and then people can 'attend' with 
their idea's when others are asleep


With Xubuntu being quite communal - I'm happy to be guided by 'you' here



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Re: TEAM: Wily Werewolf Package Testing

[elfy]

On 24/05/15 13:12, Istimsak Abdulbasir wrote:


If I understand this correctly, not enough app testing is being 
performed. Either we need more testers or more testing.



Well.

More testing is (assuming the same footfall as Vivid) just the same few 
people looking at the same thing more.


Not particularly useful - what we need is more people ;)

That said - the package tracker tends towards static testing - when we 
/did /get test results they showed up after I'd said something like 'go 
forth and test this please'


What is more useful is that you,me and everybody, use the new OS when we 
can - check things out as you go, then report bugs via Launchpad - if 
they get tagged wily - we can then grab them easier.


However I am willing to be convinced otherwise ...
On May 24, 2015 6:45 AM, "elfy" <mailto:e...@gmx.co.uk>> wrote:


On 14/05/15 20:55, elfy wrote:

This came up during the recent meeting.

Given the work necessary to make sure that testcases are up to
date and available and the general lack of testing being
reported to the tracker for the last 2 cycles.

I plan to not do so this cycle unless anyone thinks that we
should - and just thinking we should isn't likely to change my
mind ;)

Currently planning to mail this list and ping social media for
targetted app testing when it's required and requested by our
devs.



I'm assuming that no-one has an issue with this plan and will move on.

I'll revisit the topic at the beginning of the next cycle.



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Re: Vivid QA incentives report

[elfy]

On 22/05/15 17:38, Paul White wrote:

On Wed, 20 May 2015, at 20:23, elfy wrote:


Trello - there is a QA trello instance - we could have a 'we want to
test this' board on it - that trello is publically readable.

I've looked at the Xubuntu Trello board and like what I see.


Mailing lists, I already mail the dev list and the LP testers when we
want something tested - no reason why not be more specific when doing so.

May be a weekly update of issues that require the attention of testers?

Either way, I hope next week's meeting will pick up on this.

Thanks to all those that replied to my initial email. :)

If you swing by it again - I've got a draft board set up.

Assuming you're able to open the cards (- testing that would be great ;) 
) I could put notes as to anything specific we need looking at during 
milestones there for anyone.


I'm still not sure if this would be any better than specifying when we 
call at milestones.


I'm also not sure about weekly updates.

Now - as far as the meeting goes - I'm happy for it to get discussed, 
but unless we get people from the community along who are happy to test 
and have opinions - it's just going to end up with me saying "some 
people have suggested foo"


What would be a better idea in my opinion would be a testing/qa specific 
meeting. If there are enough people interested in that type of thing 
then maybe start a m/l thread and we can see who's up for it - then set 
up a meeting in #xubuntu-devel when all (or the majority) can attend.


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Re: TEAM: Wily Werewolf Package Testing

[elfy]

On 14/05/15 20:55, elfy wrote:

This came up during the recent meeting.

Given the work necessary to make sure that testcases are up to date 
and available and the general lack of testing being reported to the 
tracker for the last 2 cycles.


I plan to not do so this cycle unless anyone thinks that we should - 
and just thinking we should isn't likely to change my mind ;)


Currently planning to mail this list and ping social media for 
targetted app testing when it's required and requested by our devs.





I'm assuming that no-one has an issue with this plan and will move on.

I'll revisit the topic at the beginning of the next cycle.



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General testing information

[elfy]

On 23/05/15 20:24, Ben Shaver wrote:

Hello, from reading this over a bit, I understand there's "testers"? I'd love 
to contribute to testing of some kind. Could someone direct me to more info?


Hi.

http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/

The information should all be there - if it's not let us know and it can be.

Make sure to join this list and https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers

I mail both when things are up to be tested.

I mail the list for more specific reasons.

Come by the irc channel - people /will/ talk to you ;)

Currently if you want to make a start testing images - there are always 
dailies at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/340/builds


Xubuntu is at the bottom there.

Generally it's useful to either have hardware that you don't normally 
use and/or virtual machines. I use qemu and virt-manager or virtualbox 
for virtual machines.



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Re: Vivid QA incentives report

[elfy]

On 22/05/15 18:49, Istimsak Abdulbasir wrote:



On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 1:38 PM, Paul White > wrote:



https://trello.com/xubuntuteam
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Thanks Paul.


Thanks. I am inferring this will give me an idea of what to expect in 
the meeting?
Did you look at it - not sure why you think it'll give you an idea of 
what to expect in a meeting.


It's something that 'we' already use - Paul and I are discussing methods 
to give testers more information.



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Re: Vivid QA incentives report

[elfy]

On 22/05/15 17:38, Paul White wrote:

On Wed, 20 May 2015, at 20:23, elfy wrote:


Trello - there is a QA trello instance - we could have a 'we want to
test this' board on it - that trello is publically readable.

I've looked at the Xubuntu Trello board and like what I see.


Mailing lists, I already mail the dev list and the LP testers when we
want something tested - no reason why not be more specific when doing so.

May be a weekly update of issues that require the attention of testers?
Frankly - anything that I can do to make things easier for testers is 
something I'd do, given time and the tools ;)


Either way, I hope next week's meeting will pick up on this.
If you're going to be around - that would be awesome - you can even 
table it to the agenda ;)


Thanks to all those that replied to my initial email. :)



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Re: Vivid QA incentives report

[elfy]

On 16/05/15 13:47, Paul White wrote:

[snip]

I'm suggesting this as I'm often at a loss what to test for. I'm
inundated with emails from various lists which I read at various times
of the day on various devices and by the time I get around to do some
testing at the weekend I've forgotten about the most important items.

Anything that can highlight current testing requirements would be of
great help to me and I'm sure to others.

Sorry about being a tad afk ...

For something this specific I don't actually believe that Launchpad is 
agile enough.


Picking up on this point there's no reason why we couldn't look at using 
something to do this.


Maybe Trello ... maybe an etherpad ... maybe wiki ...

The issue with etherpad (at least using Ubuntu one) is people need to be 
in a LP group to access that - not everyone is.


Trello - there is a QA trello instance - we could have a 'we want to 
test this' board on it - that trello is publically readable.


Wiki - I started last cycle with a 'skeleton'  wiki for us to use to 
build release notes against, no reason why not having a section there.


Mailing lists, I already mail the dev list and the LP testers when we 
want something tested - no reason why not be more specific when doing so.


Finally, if there is anything that I and the QA team can do to make life 
easier - we're all ears.


thanks

Kev


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TEAM: Wily Werewolf Package Testing

[elfy]

This came up during the recent meeting.

Given the work necessary to make sure that testcases are up to date and 
available and the general lack of testing being reported to the tracker 
for the last 2 cycles.


I plan to not do so this cycle unless anyone thinks that we should - and 
just thinking we should isn't likely to change my mind ;)


Currently planning to mail this list and ping social media for targetted 
app testing when it's required and requested by our devs.




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Re: TEAM: Wily Werewolf Milestone participation

[Elfy]

On 12/05/15 19:33, Elfy wrote:
For the last two cycles we've not taken part in milestones until the 
Beta stage.


We need to decide how we're going to play this cycle.

I've not got a problem if we do the same - though it might be useful 
to play it by ear, and decide closer to the time they arrive 
(currently unable to say when - Wily release schedule not published yet)


On the other hand - the LTS cycle starts in 7 months, so do we do them 
all getting back into practice so to speak.





Overnight the schedule turned up.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule

Also - "In the release session at UOS we talked about the desire to have 
flavour

community members responsible for driving the releases of milestones,
especially the ones that Ubuntu itself is not participating in." [1]

Kubuntu, Lubuntu and us did this last cycle - so I'll be expecting to 
NOT do that this cycle. If there are no volunteers - there'll be, I 
assume, no milestones.


[1] 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-release/2014-December/003166.html


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TEAM: Wily Werewolf Milestone participation

[Elfy]

For the last two cycles we've not taken part in milestones until the 
Beta stage.


We need to decide how we're going to play this cycle.

I've not got a problem if we do the same - though it might be useful to 
play it by ear, and decide closer to the time they arrive (currently 
unable to say when - Wily release schedule not published yet)


On the other hand - the LTS cycle starts in 7 months, so do we do them 
all getting back into practice so to speak.




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Re: For the website team - Error on the website

[Elfy]

On 25/04/15 17:38, Addam Murad wrote:

It took me so long to reach this:
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/

I hate torrent alot..

Why not (For Example) put this:
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/14.04/release/
to download 14.04 instead of torrent or long way though many websites?

Make it easier! Because making it that complicated will push people 
away, I was going to give up on you at some point.


And it would be better if (For Example) you just put:
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/releases/15.04/release/xubuntu-15.04-desktop-amd64.iso
to directly download 15.04 64 bit and ofcourse to do the same to 14.04

NOT everyone will know what to choose or what to download so help 
people and make it simple like Ubuntu website.


I was else wondering why I can't reach direct links to older versions 
on your website? Many people use too old PCs and Laptops with 256 RAM 
and less!


Thanks for your work anyway, you make it possible to people who can't 
afford new PC or Laptop to enjoy smooth clean OS!




Yep

totally understand those points.

Not sure you understand the community side of Xubuntu.

How about YOU go and look at the download pages, then work out how the 
COMMUNITY pages could be to make it easier.


Please bear in mind that every 6 months it all has to change.

I am sure that people charged with the twice yearly responsibility of 
making sure that people can at least grab the latest would LOVE your help.


While you are doing that you could even TEST it.

Just a couple of points and reminders there.

   Xubuntu does not belong to Xubuntu Team - but the community.


   If the community wanders off there is no Xubuntu.

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Community Council Catchup with Xubuntu

[Elfy]

Hello all,

The Community Council is scheduling meetings over the next cycle with 
the various teams, councils and boards in the Ubuntu community. [1]


The  meeting with  Xubuntu is scheduled for  18th July @ 17:00UTC.

We will endeavour to remind you closer to that date.

For more information, please see our Agenda[2] page on the wiki.


regards

Elfy

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda#Team_catch-up
[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda

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Vivid Final Update

[Elfy]

There have been a few rebuilds lately, I thought that I should just poke 
people re what we are seeing and what's not going to change.


In the hope that we get a few more last minute tests from users - I can 
do all the smoketests in the world, but that's one person and one 
machine. It's come close to us not releasing in the last milestones. I'd 
not like us to be in a place where we don't release 15.04.


So ...

Hardware - I have tested on this machine, SSD's, i5 and 8Gb RAM and on a 
laptop with 4Gb RAM and an old processor - those tests have resulted in 
passes.


Virtual machines - here, the Canonical devs tend towards using qemu.

I have found that on qemu (with virt-manager) I most times get a 
sensible boot, install and clean reboot. Once in 10 I got a hang.


Virtualbox - this just hates us. Seemingly. You can boot, you can 
install - it 'appears' to crash at the end - a power-offof vbox and 
reboot should allow a clean boot into a working system.


If you have image errors - we'd like to know, but they'll not get looked 
into until after 15.04 release.


Hope that makes sense - it's been a long day.


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Xubuntu Testing and QA

[Elfy]

In recent months I have had a couple of people mail me regarding how to 
get more involved with Xubuntu and testing.


So here are some general links for people newer to the list(s) on how to 
go about that.


General contributions to Xubuntu are dealt with at 
http://xubuntu.org/contribute/


The general wiki page for testing in the Ubuntu family, giving details 
is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Roles/Tester


More specifically for the Xubuntu testing side, this page give more 
detail http://xubuntu.org/contribute/qa/


If you decide that you want to do more regular testing it helps us if 
people can add themselves to 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TeamHardware with what they can 
test with.


Join the Xubuntu Tester team https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-testers

If you have questions, the team is always happy to help where they can, 
or point people in the right direction.


Specifically the members of the Xubuntu QA team should have no trouble 
helping you, those people are listed at 
https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-qa/+members#active


Regular contributions within the Xubuntu Testing and QA setup can lead 
to, in the first instance joining the QA team; this in turn can lead to 
joining the Xubuntu Team and taking part in shaping Xubuntu for the future.


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Re: [xubuntu-users] Vivid Vervet Release Candidate

[Elfy]

On 18/04/15 08:58, Elfy wrote:

[snip]



As is normal links to the images we need testing.

In addition to the general 32 and 64 bit install tests, upgrade tests 
are important as well - especially *real* upgrades. I can smoketest a 
clean install and upgrade - not anywhere close to one done in the real 
world.


http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/338/builds

One last point - and an important one, if you get affected by the 
"vivid fails to shutdown or reboot at end of installation when "reboot 
now" button is pressed" bug please mark test as *_failed with critical 
bug_*.


I would be surprised if you don't get affected by that.

Thanks all

Elfy

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Too early, write the mail, then look at it again before sending - sorry :(

The bug in question is

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1445592

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Re: Vivid Vervet Release Candidate

[Elfy]

On 15/04/15 18:43, Elfy wrote:
At some point on Friday 17th April this week, the Release Candidate 
for the release of 15.04 next week should show up on the image tracker 
[1]


We would love to see the tracker full of reports from you. If there 
are insufficient tests reported we are not necessarily going to be in 
a position to mark the tests as ready, if that happens - we won't be 
releasing Xubuntu on the 23rd April.


Testing an image is generally pretty straightforward [2]

I'd urge people with the spare time, capacity to run an install test 
on hardware, or in a virtual machine to please do so.


I'd also like to remind people that we might even send you an Xubuntu 
sticker pack. [3]


Please remember to check back on the tracker between the 17th and the 
23rd, rebuilds happen fairly often, even this late in the cycle.


Thanks for all that you do, let's do more in the last stretch.

Regards

Elfy

[1] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
[2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Walkthrough
[3] 
http://xubuntu.org/news/help-the-community-with-testing-and-win-xubuntu-stickers/



As is normal links to the images we need testing.

In addition to the general 32 and 64 bit install tests, upgrade tests 
are important as well - especially *real* upgrades. I can smoketest a 
clean install and upgrade - not anywhere close to one done in the real 
world.


http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/338/builds

One last point - and an important one, if you get affected by the "vivid 
fails to shutdown or reboot at end of installation when "reboot now" 
button is pressed" bug please mark test as *_failed with critical bug_*.


I would be surprised if you don't get affected by that.

Thanks all

Elfy

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Vivid Vervet Release Candidate

[Elfy]

At some point on Friday 17th April this week, the Release Candidate for 
the release of 15.04 next week should show up on the image tracker [1]


We would love to see the tracker full of reports from you. If there are 
insufficient tests reported we are not necessarily going to be in a 
position to mark the tests as ready, if that happens - we won't be 
releasing Xubuntu on the 23rd April.


Testing an image is generally pretty straightforward [2]

I'd urge people with the spare time, capacity to run an install test on 
hardware, or in a virtual machine to please do so.


I'd also like to remind people that we might even send you an Xubuntu 
sticker pack. [3]


Please remember to check back on the tracker between the 17th and the 
23rd, rebuilds happen fairly often, even this late in the cycle.


Thanks for all that you do, let's do more in the last stretch.

Regards

Elfy

[1] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker
[2] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/Walkthrough
[3] 
http://xubuntu.org/news/help-the-community-with-testing-and-win-xubuntu-stickers/


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Re: [TEAM] Drop Gimp for 15.10

[Elfy]

On 08/04/15 20:19, David Bermúdez Guiot wrote:

Hi:

With all due respect, would someone be so kind to post the list of the 
people  who has voice and vote on this issues, thanks in advance.



It already has been.

[snip]


[1]

https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010560.html




[snip]



David Bermúdez Guiot

+52 2281 128758

Xalapa, Veracruz, México.







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Re: Final Beta Testing

[Elfy]

On 23/03/15 16:09, Elfy wrote:
Sometime in the next day the image will be frozen in order that we can 
test this milestone.


Trying to give you an early warning as always means that direct links 
to our tests aren't yet available.


They will however obviously be at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker 
under Vivid and probably called Final Beta.


Thanks to all who'll be able to run some install tests for us.

Currently the only odd issue I am aware of is the image does not 
prompt to remove the install media, this has been reported at


https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1432285

regards

64 bit - 
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/336/builds/90946/testcases
32 bit - 
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/336/builds/90972/testcases


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Final Beta Testing

[Elfy]

Sometime in the next day the image will be frozen in order that we can 
test this milestone.


Trying to give you an early warning as always means that direct links to 
our tests aren't yet available.


They will however obviously be at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker 
under Vivid and probably called Final Beta.


Thanks to all who'll be able to run some install tests for us.

Currently the only odd issue I am aware of is the image does not prompt 
to remove the install media, this has been reported at


https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1432285

regards

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Re: [TEAM] Reviewing the "Seeds & Composition" section on the Strategy Document

[Elfy]

On 16/03/15 13:38, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:

Hello team,

it's time to review and discuss the last section on the Xubuntu Strategy
Document that hasn't been updated during the "modern" Xubuntu times;
Seeds & Composition.

I've attached both the current and the new, proposed version to this
message.

The proposed version has been mostly drafted with Unit193 and has
briefly gone through Sean and Simon.

Time to discuss.

Cheers,
Pasi




further to IRC discussion I'm good
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Re: [TEAM] Reviewing the "Seeds & Composition" section on the Strategy Document

[Elfy]

On 16/03/15 14:12, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:

On 16/03/15 15:57, Elfy wrote:

On 16/03/15 13:38, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:

Hello team,

it's time to review and discuss the last section on the Xubuntu Strategy
Document that hasn't been updated during the "modern" Xubuntu times;
Seeds & Composition.

I've attached both the current and the new, proposed version to this
message.

The proposed version has been mostly drafted with Unit193 and has
briefly gone through Sean and Simon.

Time to discuss.

Cheers,
Pasi




I can almost ack that as it is ...

One point only - I've never bothered to mention previously, but if 
we're re-working it then I will now.


Imagine that there is an application - that would be just be the best 
thing since sliced bread, but no-one's bothered about translations - 
at all. Only available in English.


Assuming that all other points are ok.

Does

* Localization. Does the application have translations in the most 
commonly used languages?


or the new

* Localization

mean that no-one gets the package?



Neither of this means that we can't include the package. Localization 
is probably one of the easiest things to fix as well. Lowering 
resource consumption is a completely different beast.


As the document says, it's an aspect to be considered, not something 
that alone is a reason not to include or not include the package. The 
big picture of a package is more important than one of the aspects.


This is exactly why I said

   Assuming that all other points are ok.

Having ignored that point you've neatly sidestepped my concern ;)



[snip]
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Leader of the Shimmer Project »http://shimmerproject.org/
Ubuntu member, Xubuntu Website lead   »http://xubuntu.org/




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Re: [TEAM] Reviewing the "Seeds & Composition" section on the Strategy Document

[Elfy]

On 16/03/15 13:38, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:

Hello team,

it's time to review and discuss the last section on the Xubuntu Strategy
Document that hasn't been updated during the "modern" Xubuntu times;
Seeds & Composition.

I've attached both the current and the new, proposed version to this
message.

The proposed version has been mostly drafted with Unit193 and has
briefly gone through Sean and Simon.

Time to discuss.

Cheers,
Pasi




I can almost ack that as it is ...

One point only - I've never bothered to mention previously, but if we're 
re-working it then I will now.


Imagine that there is an application - that would be just be the best 
thing since sliced bread, but no-one's bothered about translations - at 
all. Only available in English.


Assuming that all other points are ok.

Does

* Localization. Does the application have translations in the most 
commonly used languages?


or the new

* Localization

mean that no-one gets the package?


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Vivid Beta 1 issues

[Elfy]

Anyone who has tried to look at the install tests for this should have
found that they're failing.

What is apparent is that installing from the *livesession* rather than
the Install option of the Try Xubuntu/Install Xubuntu works better.

What we would like is for anyone who's able to do so, to test any of the
following

Install (auto-resize)
Install (entire disk)
Install ( manual partioning)

on either 32 OR 64 bit.

Please ensure that your comment in your result includes LIVE

We will then be in a position to decide if we can release with the
current issue being noted as a Known Issue.


regards

Elfy

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Re: [TEAM] QA Incentive

[Elfy]

On 20/02/15 22:27, Elfy wrote:
> I've set up a google spreadsheet which I use to catalogue the tracker
> image results for the incentive scheme [1]
>
> If you want to have read access (currently it's set to XPL and QA Lead
> write only) can you mail me with a gmail address or something which
> gives you access to that and I'll share you the link.
>
> Have a good weekend
>
> Kev
>
>
> [1]
> http://xubuntu.org/news/help-the-community-with-testing-and-win-xubuntu-stickers/
>
Seems the [TEAM] wasn't specific enough..

When we mail the list with [TEAM] in the subject it, much like voting
the subject is 'team' based [1]

Coincidentally, the QA team was set up so that people who contributed
via that had the ability to become part of [TEAM] anyone is welcome to
take part in our testing activities - I am aware of each everyone of you
how does

So if you do want to be part of [TEAM] through QA make that known.

Only people in that team will get this early view - the rest will need
to wait with bated breath :)

Sorry for the confusion



[1] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team

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[TEAM] QA Incentive

[Elfy]

I've set up a google spreadsheet which I use to catalogue the tracker
image results for the incentive scheme [1]

If you want to have read access (currently it's set to XPL and QA Lead
write only) can you mail me with a gmail address or something which
gives you access to that and I'll share you the link.

Have a good weekend

Kev


[1]
http://xubuntu.org/news/help-the-community-with-testing-and-win-xubuntu-stickers/

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Re: 14.04.2 Image testing

[Elfy]

On 17/02/15 17:09, Elfy wrote:
> On 03/02/15 18:19, Elfy wrote:
>> [snip]
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
> Finally got some rebuilt images.
>
> Due for release this Thursday - so anyone who's got time to run some
> image tests - thanks in advance :)
>
> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/332/builds
>
>
>
Thanks to all of you who participated in this for ALL of us.

We managed between us to get 94 test results across 4 rebuilds.

More thanks owed for keeping up with that rebuild issue.

regards

ps. Beta 1 will be next week - probably available Tuesday - details will
follow.

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Re: about to Xubuntu 14.04.2

[Elfy]

On 19/02/15 22:46, Ramon Marquez wrote:
> and what is exactly the problem is presenting? graphics problems?
> installation? kernel? because I think the problem is being generated
> in the ISO because the version 14.04.2 is available if you have
> upgraded the system. I would like to know what the specific problem
> and which distribution or flavor of ubuntu is being presented problems
> -- 
> Libuntu  - Linux, Juegos, Software
> Libre y Mas
>
>
There is no problem other than impatience.

It'll release when it releases.
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Re: 14.04.2 Image testing

[Elfy]

On 03/02/15 18:19, Elfy wrote:
> [snip]
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
Finally got some rebuilt images.

Due for release this Thursday - so anyone who's got time to run some
image tests - thanks in advance :)

http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/332/builds



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Re: ICS File for Community Meetings and other

[Elfy]

On 16/02/15 18:52, A Blesius wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I just noticed that there is no ICS file for the Community Meetings
> reminder mail. Are the Community Meetings on such a regular basis (e.
> g. every second Wednesday per month or something like that) that
> automatically creating an ICS file would help anyone?
>
> Greetings,
>
> Alex
Hi - no - they're not that sort of regular.

More a case of irregularly regular

regards





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Re: [TEAM] ISO target size

[Elfy]

On 11/02/15 14:40, A Blesius wrote:
> I don't see why we should unnecessarily increase the ISO size. LO is
> in the repos, so why bother shipping it directly? If we decide to move
> on to <2 GB now, then we'll decide for <4 GB some time later. It will
> begin to grow from release to release, and at some time Xubuntu will
> no longer be a low-resources distro, which is one reason why I'm using it.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Alex
>
It's taken longer than I've been about to discuss this - so I don't for
one moment expect it to become a topic again this side of the next LTS
release.

If we take your argument further - then we should just give people the
Core - which can be installed from the net mini.iso.


>
>
> Ich verschlüssele meine Emails mit GnuPG.
> Erfahren Sie mehr hier:
> https://emailselfdefense.fsf.org/de/index.html
>
> Am 11.02.2015 um 14:52 schrieb Pasi Lallinaho:
> > Hello,
>
> > in the last community meeting we had some discussion about the
> > target size for our ISO. Since many of the team weren't attending,
> > we wanted to bring the discussion in the mailing list.
>
>
> > PLEASE NOTE that this is not a idea/proposal thread for ideas on
> > filling the ISO with $software. People who send software
> > suggestions to this thread have the risk of being added to the
> > manual moderation list. Thank you.
>
>
> > After we couldn't fit into a CD any more, our target has been 1GB.
> > The argument for that target size was that it was the next usual
> > hardware limit (eg. there aren't many 900MB USB sticks).
>
> > This discussion is current since we are talking about potentially
> > including LibreOffice; if that happens, we will definitely go over
> > 1GB and there isn't anything we can drop to get back below.
>
> > My suggestion on the meeting was that if we go over 1GB, our new
> > target should be "below or as close to 1GB as possible, but 2GB at
> > maximum".
>
> > What do you others think?
>
> > Cheers, Pasi
>
>


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Re: [TEAM] ISO target size

[Elfy]

On 11/02/15 17:30, Daniel Mehrmann wrote:
>
> Am 11.02.2015 um 15:22 schrieb Pasi Lallinaho:
>> While the media size is one of the concerns, it's not the only one.
>>
>> Download times are an argument for keeping as small as possible; the
>> smaller our ISOs are, the less time they take to download. Of course,
>> if something is considered essential, then it can be added, but the
>> starting point should be to not include anything that isn't essential.
>>
>
> Well, basicly you're right of course. But if i'm looking to europe,
> the last defined internet connection bandwith at home by the european
> commission was 4 mbit. This was somewhere 2006. 2014 the european
> commission upgraded the target size to 30mbit(!) for a average
> internet connection at home.
> I think we don't need to talk bandwith in north america
I think that we might need to ;)

I don't think that everywhere gets the huge speeds one sees talked about.

As far as Europe is concerned, this bit of it isn't generally all that
good either (UK)
> or for example  japan. Well, about africa, i have to admit, i have no
> sizing ideas.
>
> What i'm trying to say is, that is internet bandwith is growing very
> fast and we're at a point, where we should looking forward and no
> longer backward. Yes, you'll find special cases with a small internet
> connection always, but the most of them (>90%) shouldn't have a big
> problem if the iso size up to 2 GB.
>
> Yes, i'm voting for a "somewhat" below 2 GB iso size.
>
>
> Regards
> Daniel
>
>
>

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Re: 14.04.2 Image testing

[Elfy]

On 03/02/15 18:19, Elfy wrote:
> The next point release of Xubuntu LTS is due for release soon.
>
> Please help us by testing the 64 and 32 bit images.
>
> Download information and reporting can all be found at the same place
>
> 64 bit images and reporting :
>
> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/332/builds/88797/testcases
>
> 32 bit images and reporting :
>
> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/332/builds/88798/testcases
>
> Please be aware that currently cdimage is having issues, so downloads
> might be intermittent - zsyncing for this (and vivid) currently is hit
> and miss.
>
> The sysadmins are aware.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
Thanks to all who've tested this or are going to do so.

Just so everyone is aware - this has been delayed for a couple of weeks
to the 19th February as there are some issues with packages coming in
from elsewhere.

This does at least give us a chance to test it for longer.

As I get information about the fixes and the image get's rebuilt I will
let you all know again.

Thanks

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14.04.2 Image testing

[Elfy]

The next point release of Xubuntu LTS is due for release soon.

Please help us by testing the 64 and 32 bit images.

Download information and reporting can all be found at the same place

64 bit images and reporting :

http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/332/builds/88797/testcases

32 bit images and reporting :

http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/332/builds/88798/testcases

Please be aware that currently cdimage is having issues, so downloads
might be intermittent - zsyncing for this (and vivid) currently is hit
and miss.

The sysadmins are aware.

Thanks



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[TEAM] Default Game Change

[Elfy]

Following on from the discussion on the mailing list [1] the concensus
is to keep games in the default install.

That said we want to look at perhaps changing what we do provide by
default.

While we're happy for discussion to take place, please note that it will
in the end be Xubuntu-team members who make the final decision.

Also, we're looking for simple games - we're not going to be installing
Steam ...

Thanks

[1] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-January/010530.html


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Re: Community Meeting - 30th January

[Elfy]

On 24/01/15 04:21, Elfy wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> the next meeting for both the community and the development team is
> set for the very special time for a very special member of the team at
>
> 14:59:59 UTC on 30th January [1]
>
> I'll be starting the meeting, I might be a second or two late ...
>
> There are a couple of issues on the agenda that are likely to impact
> on the community as a whole. If you've got a comment to make on
> things, or an axe to grind come along and join in
>
> */BUT please - if you're going to do so /*
>
> wait till it's the right time to do a
>
> o/ in the channel
>
> so we know you've something to say.
>
> It would be awesome to see some of those affected around to contribute
> to the discussion.
>
> Dry and dusty meetings that accomplish nothing, or just appear to be
> us talking to ourselves,  help no-one.
>
> Time to get things moving along before the LTS arrives, very very soon.
>
> regards
>
> [1]
> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20150130T145959&p1=1440&ah=1
>
>
>
Logs for that are available now

http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2015/xubuntu-devel.2015-01-30-15.00.log.html
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Re: Installed Games

[Elfy]

On 29/01/15 09:59, PK wrote:
> @Elfy: Why do you consider these games as mere "clutter"? They offer
> simple amusement to many, which I find as important as, say, having
> multiple desktop wallpapers to choose from. Or having multiple themes.
>
Because one person's "Must have this or the world will end"
application/game is someone else's "Why is this even here?"

Rather than pick on one aspect of my post - comment on the whole.

This mail to the list is about

removing games that are currently installed by default


It's not about

we have these by default - what would people prefer to see

thanks

> The installation packages of most of these games take even less space
> on the iso, than an average wallpaper.
>
> For instance: in Xubuntu 14.04, the installation package of AisleRiot
> Solitaire is only half a megabyte: 585 kB, to be exact. And the
> installation package of Minesweeper (gnome-mines) is only one third of
> a megabyte: 298 kB.
>
> What problem does removing them solve? :-)

Who said there's a problem?

The subject came up in a meeting - there were only 2 or 3 people there
so it got taken here for more discussion.
>
> Regards, Pjotr.
>
> 2015-01-29 9:36 GMT+01:00 Ivà Burgos  <mailto:iva.bur...@ubuntu.cat>>:
>
> 2015-01-29 8:57 GMT+01:00 Elfy  <mailto:ub.u...@btinternet.com>>:
>
> On 28/01/15 07:54, Elfy wrote:
> > Discussion started on the subject of removing games from the
> install at
> > the last meeting, taking this to the list for more comments.
> >
>
> We're not going to be adding games - the question is whether
> to remove
> the couple we do see.
>
>
> And... why would we remove the couple games?
>
> Ivà.
>
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>
>
>
>

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Re: For the website team - Error on the website

[Elfy]

On 29/01/15 01:19, Erik Walthinsen wrote:
> Might want to fix the fact that while there's a release announcement
> for 14.10 (which is now 3 months old...), the download pages and links
> all still say "latest is 14.04" and do in fact point to 14.04.
>
http://xubuntu.org/getxubuntu/

That says

Latest LTS release is 14.04, which it is

Latest release is 14.10, which it is


When April comes I would think it will say

Latest LTS release is 14.04, which it still will be

Latest release is 15.04, which it will be

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Re: Installed Games

[Elfy]

On 28/01/15 07:54, Elfy wrote:
> Discussion started on the subject of removing games from the install at
> the last meeting, taking this to the list for more comments.
>
Just a bit confused as to how this apparently says

"Can we have a list of all the games each of you would like to see
cluttering up the default install" ;)

We're not going to be adding games - the question is whether to remove
the couple we do see.



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Re: Discussion: Default office applications

[Elfy]

On 28/01/15 20:39, Jackson Doak wrote:
> We need to triage the current lp abiword bugs, as a lot was fixed in
> 3.0.1. Maybe watching the svn could help too, as the upstream devs are
> fairly active
> We are one bugfix release behind on gnumeric, so if anyone's reasoning
> is a bug, can they please
> check http://www.gnumeric.org/announcements/1.12/gnumeric-1.12.19.html
> first.
>
> I personally use google drive, with abiword for basic offline use only.

Let's not make this a discussion about bugs please.
>
> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 7:32 AM, Elizabeth K. Joseph  > wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> We've had this discussion a few times in past cycles, but as we
> continue to bump into bugs in Abiword[0], the topic has come up again.
>
> How are we feeling about our default choice of Abiword and Gnumeric as
> the office applications for Xubuntu? Is it time to consider switching
> to LibreOffice?
>
I use abiword and gnumeric to check the current testcases - otherwise
they get ignored.

I install -calc and -writer for daily use.
>
> I'll note that in the past the pro-LibreOffice users tended to
> dominate these discussions. Feel free to speak up, but we're actively
> encouraging the folks who use and prefer Abiword and Gnumeric to speak
> up too. How would changing the default impact you? Do you feel
> strongly about not switching to LibreOffice?
>
> Thanks everyone.
>
> [0] One of the latest that came up during testing:
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/abiword/+bug/1395323
>
> --
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>
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>
>
>
>

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User Type Poll

[Elfy]

There is an agenda item on User Polls.

We're trying to find out how users identify themselves, this is a first
step in that direction.

There's an etherpad set up with the current thoughts. [1]

 Comments on that please

[1]  http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-user-identifies-as



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Installed Games

[Elfy]

Discussion started on the subject of removing games from the install at
the last meeting, taking this to the list for more comments.

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Re: [xubuntu-users] Community Meeting - 30th January

[Elfy]

On 24/01/15 19:46, Ince, Wilbur wrote:
> This looks very interesting, but do you have more details on
> attending?  Is there a meeting notice and agenda?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Wilbur

Oops - yes there is more :)

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings

#xubuntu-devel on freenode

If you've no irc client installed then you can use webchat

http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=xubuntu&nick=xubuntu-devel..&prompt=1


>
> On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 10:21 PM, Elfy  wrote:
>> [snip]
>>


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Community Meeting - 30th January

[Elfy]

Hello all,

the next meeting for both the community and the development team is set
for the very special time for a very special member of the team at

14:59:59 UTC on 30th January [1]

I'll be starting the meeting, I might be a second or two late ...

There are a couple of issues on the agenda that are likely to impact on
the community as a whole. If you've got a comment to make on things, or
an axe to grind come along and join in

*/BUT please - if you're going to do so /*

wait till it's the right time to do a

o/ in the channel

so we know you've something to say.

It would be awesome to see some of those affected around to contribute
to the discussion.

Dry and dusty meetings that accomplish nothing, or just appear to be us
talking to ourselves,  help no-one.

Time to get things moving along before the LTS arrives, very very soon.

regards

[1]
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20150130T145959&p1=1440&ah=1

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Testing for us

[Elfy]

Do you test for the community?

Either for images or for packages, or indeed both?

Do you report those results to the qa trackers - if you don't - we'd 
love to know what it is that puts you off doing so?


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Re: Unit193 added to the Xubuntu Developers team

[Elfy]

On 13/12/14 03:22, Sean Davis wrote:

Hey everyone!

Please welcome Unit193 to ~xubuntu-dev!  He's been a great help 
recently (and even well before my time with the Xubuntu team) with 
packaging, bug fixing, and various other development-related tasks.  
After discussing with Simon, and confirming with Unit193, we added him 
to the team.


Cheers!

Sean Davis (bluesabre)




Awesome :)


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Re: Testing Panel Intelligent Hiding

[Elfy]

On 10/12/14 16:35, Elfy wrote:

[snip]
With panel at bottom, panel stays hidden when window rolled up 
https://bugzilla.xfce.org/show_bug.cgi?id=11371
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Re: Testing Panel Intelligent Hiding

[Elfy]

On 10/12/14 16:35, Elfy wrote:
As mentioned previously on the list [1] we are only specifically 
calling for testing as things turn up needing testing.


So - this is the first one of those. This is available for testing in 
Trusty, Utopic and Vivid. So not using the dev version shouldn't hold 
anyone back here ;)


The staging ppa [2] holds these packages.

Currently there are a few updated packages there, currently we are 
only interested in one : xfce4-panel.


This includes intelligent hiding - and it is this that we are wanting 
testing.


/sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging/
/sudo apt-get update /
/sudo apt-get install xfce4-panel /

restart the panel from Alt +F2 using

/xfce4-panel --restart/

Go to Panel Preferences > Display and set Automatically hide the panel 
to /Intelligently/


The panel should only hide when a window (maximised for instance) 
would cover the panel.


and in focus

Moving an un-maximised window over the panel should also hide the panel.


Hovering over the panel when hidden should reveal it.


Please test this for at least a few days.

If you do happen across a bug, please report that upstream [3] and 
make sure to add Intelligent Hiding to the bug title.


You can also reply to this thread with a link to that reported bug.


If you've not got ppa-purge installed, now might be a good time for that.

To remove the panel we are testing run

/sudo ppa-purge ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging/

thanks


[1] 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-November/010491.html

[2] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
[3] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Xfce4-panel




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Testing Panel Intelligent Hiding

[Elfy]

As mentioned previously on the list [1] we are only specifically calling 
for testing as things turn up needing testing.


So - this is the first one of those. This is available for testing in 
Trusty, Utopic and Vivid. So not using the dev version shouldn't hold 
anyone back here ;)


The staging ppa [2] holds these packages.

Currently there are a few updated packages there, currently we are only 
interested in one : xfce4-panel.


This includes intelligent hiding - and it is this that we are wanting 
testing.


/sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging/
/sudo apt-get update /
/sudo apt-get install xfce4-panel /

restart the panel from Alt +F2 using

/xfce4-panel --restart/

Go to Panel Preferences > Display and set Automatically hide the panel 
to /Intelligently/


The panel should only hide when a window (maximised for instance) would 
cover the panel. Moving an un-maximised window over the panel should 
also hide the panel.


Please test this for at least a few days.

If you do happen across a bug, please report that upstream [3] and make 
sure to add Intelligent Hiding to the bug title.


You can also reply to this thread with a link to that reported bug.


If you've not got ppa-purge installed, now might be a good time for that.

To remove the panel we are testing run

/sudo ppa-purge ppa:xubuntu-dev/xubuntu-staging/

thanks


[1] 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2014-November/010491.html

[2] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging
[3] https://bugzilla.xfce.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Xfce4-panel
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Re: Xubuntu community meeting, Sunday December 7, 18:00 UTC

[Elfy]

On 07/12/14 12:33, Simon Steinbeiß wrote:

Hey everyone,

I'm very sorry but for RL reasons I can't make the meeting at 18:00 UTC as 
scheduled.
I will be in #xubuntu-devel during the day and also one hour before the 
meeting, so if enough of you make it there, we could have it at 17:00 UTC.

In any case, I'll do a write-up of my goings-on so it'll be easier to have the 
meeting without me and I'll try to find someone to chair instead of me today.
If nobody is there to chair, we can hold an informal meeting and I'll schedule 
another one with me chairing for the upcoming week.

Again, sorry :(
Cheers
Simon

Doesn't really appear to be much to discuss - I'd be happy for a 
re-schedule.


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Re: Package Testing Vivid Cycle

[Elfy]

On 30/11/14 10:12, Elfy wrote:
During this cycle we're not going to be running calls for groups of 
package testing as we've done in the last 2 cycles. Any calls that we 
do make will be targetted at specific applications and/or requirements 
during the cycle.


Instead we are going to rely on those of you who are running the dev 
version in some way, either in virtual machines or on hardware to 
report against the tracker [1] when you've been using an application.


Please report bugs found in applications via the tracker.

Additionally, if you wish to you can use the Xubuntu Staging PPA [2] 
to test those packages we keep there - these being those that are due 
to be upgraded to newer versions.



[1] 
http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases

[2] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-stagingx


Sometimes proofreading is useful,

https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-staging

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Package Testing Vivid Cycle

[Elfy]

During this cycle we're not going to be running calls for groups of 
package testing as we've done in the last 2 cycles. Any calls that we do 
make will be targetted at specific applications and/or requirements 
during the cycle.


Instead we are going to rely on those of you who are running the dev 
version in some way, either in virtual machines or on hardware to report 
against the tracker [1] when you've been using an application.


Please report bugs found in applications via the tracker.

Additionally, if you wish to you can use the Xubuntu Staging PPA [2] to 
test those packages we keep there - these being those that are due to be 
upgraded to newer versions.



[1] 
http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases

[2] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-dev/+archive/ubuntu/xubuntu-stagingx

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Re: Name in thunar-settings.desktop

[Elfy]

On 26/11/14 21:11, Sajan Parikh wrote:

Sorry if this is not the right place to post this.


I'd suspect that this should be a bug.


Can we change the 'Name' paramenter in the default 
/usr/share/applications/thunar-settings.desktop from 'File Manager' to 
'File Manager Preferences'?


When typing in "File Mana" in Whisker, two entries come up, both 
labeled as 'File Manager' and both with the same icon, even though one 
takes you to the preferences and the other to the actual file 
manager.  It really hurts the common workflow of assigning 
whisker-popup-menu to the super key, typing in a few letters, and 
pressing enter to launch stuff.  I've launched the preferences many 
times when I just wanted the file manager.



This being the bug ;)
Editing the name to 'File Manager Preferences' not only makes it clear 
that it's going to open up the preferences instead of the File 
Manager, but it also puts the entry below the actual 'File Manager' 
due to the way its sorted.  Allowing easier launch of the File Manager.






Not sure quite *what* it should be a bug for currently.

When you do know then you can ubuntu-bug package


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[TEAM] Package Testing

[Elfy]

Last cycle little testing was reported for packages, this cycle we want 
to try something different.


While we have someone working on producing autopilot tests - but it's 
still early days with that.


So exploratory testing.

Plan to let people just use development release during the cycle, use 
application and report bugs to the tracker as they find them.


In addition people can use the staging ppa for some applications in 
Trusty, Utopic and Vivid - so those new yet to be uploaded versions can 
be tested.


Communication between the QA and Dev teams is important here - we'll 
call for testing on new apps when we've been asked to.


We can run a few testing sprints during the cycle - nothing other than 
the though exists for this yet.


Comments on this please.

Thanks


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Image Testing

[Elfy]

So now we have at least a tentative schedule we can start thinking about 
milestones [1] - can possibly change though.


Alpha 2 - week commencing 19th January
Beta 1 - week commencing 23rd February
Final Beta - week commencing 23rd March

Systemd is slated to be default during this cycle, once that change has 
taken place it's likely that we'll be asking for some 'extraordinary 
daily testing'


We won't be taking part at Alpha1, but we will be doing Alpha 2 and the 
Beta's.


As always - the obligatory link to the tracker for Dailies

http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds

Please test dailies as you are able to and report bugs you find, we are 
still seeing the black screen during install bug [2]


When we have tracker milestone URL's they'll be sent to the list as soon 
as is possible.


Thanks all.



[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VividVervet/ReleaseSchedule
[2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1375893


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Re: [TEAM] Support for testers at cycle end

[Elfy]

On 31/10/14 18:16, Bruno Benitez wrote:
The people who would hang around in a #x+1 channel would probably be 
the same that is at #x-devel, I don't think it would make much sense 
to have a different place just for that, also the kind of questions 
users from the betas bring are usually asociated with bugs that are 
important to fix and know by the developers, having them on -devel 
would make more sense than polluting #x with questions that might 
confuse new users who read them.


if my voice counts i support knome's idea of using #xubuntu-devel as 
the place to answer questions regarding in development releases, it 
just makes sense.


2014-10-31 14:55 GMT-03:00 Elfy <mailto:ub.u...@btinternet.com>>:


On 24/10/14 13:53, Elfy wrote:

Given that we are trying to increase the level of testing
which happens for us, currently the only real IRC support
option is #ubuntu+1

While ok for more generic issues - when it's Xubuntu specific
- it's often less than optimal in #ubuntu+1, while some of us
might idle there - it's more likely that we'd take more notice
in an #xubuntu channel

The last meeting started this discussion


http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-21-20.00.log.html#l-138


This dev version testing is only for once we've started
calling for Beta testing during the cycle.

>From the meeting we've got the following comments so far

  vote for support in #xubuntu channel for dev version
once Beta 1 is testing
  +1
  +0

slickymaster  votes for support in a yet to be created
#xubuntu+1 channel
  #xubuntu-develfor x+1 support after beta1 is out;
second favorite #x+1

Comments from the rest of team please

Thanks.

last bump from me on this


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Bruno.-



So 2 weeks after the original we've got.

2 for supporting users in #xubuntu once Beta testing starts
1 for #xubuntu-devel
1 for a new channel.

I guess that's worked in favour of helping beta testers in #xubuntu

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Testing for the Vivid Vervet release

[Elfy]

Hello all, been a while - or actually not, just a couple of weeks.

But there you have it we've started again.

This is just a quick pointer to where we stand currently, nothing has 
been /planned/ just yet as we've not seen the release schedule arrive.


One thing that we will be doing this cycle extra is looking at Alpha 
milestones (most likely just the second) - at some point systemd could 
possibly become default around about the time of that milestone [1]


So regardless of us having a schedule to work with - the trackers are 
now up and ready to accept your hard won results.


The daily iso tracker is at 
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/326/builds


Once more we have the Xubuntu Core netboot available on the iso tracker, 
slightly different from the 32 and 64 bit dailies as there is no 
download information available on the tracker, the images can be found 
at [2][3]


The package tracker is at 
http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/327/builds/82959/testcases 
for us.


If you are brave enough to run with a dev install early in a cycle, 
please try and report any bugs you find on the package tracker - they do 
get picked up, they do get looked at.


As always - try and remember that an issue with a testcase needs to be 
reported as a testcase bug, an issue with a package is not a testcase 
bug so please don't report them as such.


regards

Elfy

[1] 
https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2014-October/001116.html
[2] 
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/vivid/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[3] 
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/vivid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso


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Re: [TEAM] V Cycle QA process

[Elfy]

On 24/10/14 13:55, Elfy wrote:
Discussion started 
http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-21-20.00.log.html#l-42


There is a pad with the current draft at 
http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-cycle


Can team comment on this discussion please before we get too far into 
the V cycle


Thanks


last bump from me on this

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Re: [TEAM] Support for testers at cycle end

[Elfy]

On 24/10/14 13:53, Elfy wrote:
Given that we are trying to increase the level of testing which 
happens for us, currently the only real IRC support option is #ubuntu+1


While ok for more generic issues - when it's Xubuntu specific - it's 
often less than optimal in #ubuntu+1, while some of us might idle 
there - it's more likely that we'd take more notice in an #xubuntu 
channel


The last meeting started this discussion

http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-21-20.00.log.html#l-138 



This dev version testing is only for once we've started calling for 
Beta testing during the cycle.


From the meeting we've got the following comments so far

  vote for support in #xubuntu channel for dev version once Beta 
1 is testing

  +1
  +0

slickymaster  votes for support in a yet to be created #xubuntu+1 channel
  #xubuntu-develfor x+1 support after beta1 is out; second 
favorite #x+1


Comments from the rest of team please

Thanks.


last bump from me on this

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[TEAM] Team Hardware Page

[Elfy]

Hi all,

can those of you who've not filled in what you are able to test on 
please do so at


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/TeamHardware

Thanks

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Utopic Cycle Testing Figures

[Elfy]

No blog post this cycle I'm afraid.

However, here we go then - what happened during this cycle.

We'll start with package testing as that's going to be quite quick - 
most packages got 1 or 2 tests run on them, no doubt the excellent work 
everyone did during the previous cycle led to a modicum of burn-out and 
testing exhaustion.


That's borne out by the testing we managed to get done for the images.

Overall we had somewhere in the region of 1600 possibly daily reports - 
334 were reported on the tracker.


Figures for milestone testing were much better, the beta tests with a 
possible 20 reports had 70 reports, while the Final saw us reporting 139 
against the 50 that were possible.


This cycle we also slipped in the Xubuntu Minimal, that gained 8 reports 
over the short while it was available for testing.


Once we've got a better idea of what we have planned for the next cycle 
then I'll post to the list with how we envisage testing running for the 
next cycle.


As always, if you've any ideas on how we can improve testing and 
communication with you, those who do the testing please let us know 
either here on the mailing list or in the dev IRC channel at #xubuntu-devel.


Thanks to those who tested images during the cycle - you know who you 
are and so others do as well, you are


mathieu-tl,akxwi-dave,jjfrv8,slickymaster,unit193,paulw2u,lyz,wkrekik,finley-rob,ochosi,bluesabre,gridcube,onkel-pflaume,skellat,frombenny,toz,kiyotaka,dkessel,j-bardales,saqman2060,benny,truckinpapa,intherye,alan-signal11,eric-koegel,carla-sella,pujolchr

Many thanks for your time and I look forward to seeing both you and new 
people turn up on our tracker reports.


Elfy

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[TEAM] V Cycle QA process

[Elfy]

Discussion started 
http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-21-20.00.log.html#l-42


There is a pad with the current draft at 
http://pad.ubuntu.com/xubuntu-qa-v-cycle


Can team comment on this discussion please before we get too far into 
the V cycle


Thanks

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[TEAM] Support for testers at cycle end

[Elfy]

Given that we are trying to increase the level of testing which happens 
for us, currently the only real IRC support option is #ubuntu+1


While ok for more generic issues - when it's Xubuntu specific - it's 
often less than optimal in #ubuntu+1, while some of us might idle there 
- it's more likely that we'd take more notice in an #xubuntu channel


The last meeting started this discussion

http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-21-20.00.log.html#l-138

This dev version testing is only for once we've started calling for Beta 
testing during the cycle.


From the meeting we've got the following comments so far

  vote for support in #xubuntu channel for dev version once Beta 1 is 
testing
  +1
  +0

slickymaster  votes for support in a yet to be created #xubuntu+1 channel
  #xubuntu-develfor x+1 support after beta1 is out; second favorite #x+1

Comments from the rest of team please

Thanks.

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Community Council catchup - Xubuntu Team

[Elfy]

Hello all,

The Community Council is scheduling meetings over the next cycle with 
the various teams, councils and boards in the Ubuntu community.


The  meeting with Xubuntu is scheduled for 15th January  @ 17:00UTC.

For more information, please see our Agenda[1] page on the wiki.


regards

Elfy

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda

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Re: Xubuntu community meeting, October 21st at 20:00 UTC

[Elfy]

On 14/10/14 22:07, Elfy wrote:

So - release is upon us next week.

Meeting a couple of days prior to release day.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20141021T20&ah=1 



Agenda is/will be on the wiki. Please add topics you wish to discuss

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings


Meeting minutes and logs are available here:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2014-10-21

and

http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-10-21-20.00.log.html

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Image testing

[Elfy]

I'll say this one more time, this cycle ...

Please test dailies as they show - if dailies are missing that'll be 
because there is RC or Final there for testing - in which case you can 
ignore the dailies and do those as well.


If you are testing in a virtualbox instance you might be (entirely 
likely to be) affected by 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/1378423


We are also still affected by a black background on the Try/Install 
dialogue currently - 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1375893


As always - REPORT ON THE TRACKER 
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds


Thanks all

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Xubuntu community meeting, October 21st at 20:00 UTC

[Elfy]

So - release is upon us next week.

Meeting a couple of days prior to release day.

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=Xubuntu+Team+Meeting&iso=20141021T20&ah=1

Agenda is/will be on the wiki. Please add topics you wish to discuss

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings

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Re: Final Beta

[Elfy]

On 18/09/14 17:23, Elfy wrote:
On Monday the Final Beta image's should start to be generated for 
release on Thursday the 25th.


Please try and pencil in 30 minutes to run an image test for us on 
either virtual machines or hardware.


As release date in just over a month creeps up it is becoming more 
important that we get the images tested.


Once we've got workable images I will post the tracker url.

Thanks


Images are not ready for testing yet but they will be at

http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/324/builds

Known Issues for virtual machines (at least vbox and qemu)

https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lightdm/+bug/1371651

Install goes fine - doesn't boot - you can start the installed desktop 
from vt1 with sudo service lightdm start


https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-default-settings/+bug/1365815

Black background to Try/Install screen

Thanks


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Final Beta

[Elfy]

On Monday the Final Beta image's should start to be generated for 
release on Thursday the 25th.


Please try and pencil in 30 minutes to run an image test for us on 
either virtual machines or hardware.


As release date in just over a month creeps up it is becoming more 
important that we get the images tested.


Once we've got workable images I will post the tracker url.

Thanks

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Issue Testing Xubuntu Dailies with Virtual Box

[Elfy]

If you are testing our images currently you'll be finding issues with 
booting it.


As far as I know the situation is that vboxvideo isn't loaded and the 
boot will fail after the Try/Install Screen, leaving you with a flashing 
cursor


I have been F1 (RightCtrl as default) to vt4 then you can /startx/

It IS possible to then test the install testcase - _but please do not 
fail the livesession_ for the vbox issue for us - I will ignore 
livesession fails from vbox.


It appears that vmware works (at least for Lubuntu). Hardware testing 
should work still - at least I booted ok.


I have noted the same issue (vbox) while booting the Lubuntu and Ubuntu 
images in the last day or so.


To prove that what you are seeing is in fact this issue, from vt4 run

/loginctl seat-status seat0/ and look for /CanGraphical=no/

thanks,

Elfy

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Re: Xubuntu Minimal

[Elfy]

On 06/09/14 14:34, Tony Paulic wrote:

Installed it into a vm and it looks good.


Thanks for doing that and I'm glad you like it.
I notice that xscreensaver is installed (instead of light-locker). Is 
Xubuntu moving back to using xscreensaver?


Not as far as I am aware - and I would be.








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Re: Xubuntu Minimal

[Elfy]

On 05/09/14 21:04, Shuhao wrote:

What's the difference between minimal and regular?

Shuhao



did you look at the screenshot in my original mail?

On 09/05/2014 10:28 AM, Kiyotaka Nemoto wrote:

Thanks! I will give it a try.

Best regards,

Kiyotaka


2014-09-05 23:05 GMT+09:00 Elfy :

On 05/09/14 14:54, Kiyotaka Nemoto wrote:


Hi,

Thank you for the information on Xubuntu minimal. I would love to try
it, but somehow the download links on the page [1] are missing.
(i.e. No links appear on the download page except for the statement
"Download links for Xubuntu Core")

I checked other pages such as Xubuntu Desktop amd64 or i386 and I
could see the links.
Could you check if something is wrong?

Best regards,

Kiyotaka



Oops - my mistake - you're right there is no link to a download on the
tracker

32 bit -
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso 


64 bit -
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso 



Thanks for letting us know


[1]
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds/76947/downloads 



2014-09-05 19:14 GMT+09:00 Elfy :


Something new ...

We've created a new variant of Xubuntu - Xubuntu Minimal, 
screenshot [1]

,
installable via the mini.iso and tasksel.

We're looking for people to test that for us - you might want to 
have at
least some experience with the mini.iso install - though the 
testcase has

been checked against an installation.

So - if you've got some time, a modicum of patience and the 
inspiration

to
do so - the testcase and reporting page can all be found here


http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds/76947/testcases/1655/results 



If it appears to have hung, check vt4

Thanks

Elfy

[1] http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-050914-111416.php

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Re: Xubuntu Minimal

[Elfy]

On 05/09/14 14:54, Kiyotaka Nemoto wrote:

Hi,

Thank you for the information on Xubuntu minimal. I would love to try
it, but somehow the download links on the page [1] are missing.
(i.e. No links appear on the download page except for the statement
"Download links for Xubuntu Core")

I checked other pages such as Xubuntu Desktop amd64 or i386 and I
could see the links.
Could you check if something is wrong?

Best regards,

Kiyotaka


Oops - my mistake - you're right there is no link to a download on the 
tracker


32 bit - 
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
64 bit - 
http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/utopic/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/mini.iso


Thanks for letting us know

[1] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds/76947/downloads

2014-09-05 19:14 GMT+09:00 Elfy :

Something new ...

We've created a new variant of Xubuntu - Xubuntu Minimal, screenshot [1] ,
installable via the mini.iso and tasksel.

We're looking for people to test that for us - you might want to have at
least some experience with the mini.iso install - though the testcase has
been checked against an installation.

So - if you've got some time, a modicum of patience and the inspiration to
do so - the testcase and reporting page can all be found here

http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds/76947/testcases/1655/results

If it appears to have hung, check vt4

Thanks

Elfy

[1] http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-050914-111416.php

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Xubuntu Minimal

[Elfy]

Something new ...

We've created a new variant of Xubuntu - Xubuntu Minimal, screenshot [1] 
, installable via the mini.iso and tasksel.


We're looking for people to test that for us - you might want to have at 
least some experience with the mini.iso install - though the testcase 
has been checked against an installation.


So - if you've got some time, a modicum of patience and the inspiration 
to do so - the testcase and reporting page can all be found here


http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds/76947/testcases/1655/results

If it appears to have hung, check vt4

Thanks

Elfy

[1] http://en.zimagez.com/zimage/screenshot-050914-111416.php

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Re: Newbie

[Elfy]

On 04/09/14 10:38, Deepanshu Thakur wrote:
Hello, My name is Deepanshu Thakur and I am a newbie. I don't have 
much knowledge about coding but I have experience about exploratory 
and manual testing. I am contributing in Mozilla in QA and I want to 
work in ubuntu too in Qualtiy and testing. So please suggest me how 
and where to start. I have joined IRC too but didn't get any 
satisfactory solution.





Hi Deepanshu,

As you've posted to the Xubuntu list - I'll give you some specific 
information.


All of our testing gets reported  on the Ubuntu trackers - there are 2 
that we use, 1 for images and 1 for packages.


To do more than read the tests you will need to be able to login to the 
tracker(s)


Our package tests are collated at 
http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases


That shows you 2 groups of Optional tests - and four other package 
groups - Suite A to D. We are more interested in results for the latter 
4 than the optional, though any test is better than none.


Using the Menulibre testcase as an example - 
http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases/1638/results



   Once at that page you will see /Link to the installation
   instructions /and /Detailed information on the testcase/ - you can
   ignore both of those.

   Below those you can see /Testcase/, click that and you will then see
   the testcase we want performed for Menulibre.

   Run through that - either in an installed system or in a vm and then
   report your result at the bottom. You can either mark the test as

   Failed - in which case you must link at least one bug, and for it to
   fail it would need to be a critical bug.

   Passed - this can have a bug associated or not.

   In progress - self -explanatory, you can return later to change
   status to Failed or Passed.


Image testing is collated at http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker, 
currently we aqre testing Utopic Dailies - 
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds


Filtering on the left pane to Xubuntu will leave you with 3 Products, 
Xubuntu Core, Xubuntu Desktop amd64 and Xubuntu Desktop i386.


Ignore the Xubuntu Core product, that will be the topic of a mail to the 
dev list in a short while.


Using either the 64 or 32 bit options left you will find 5 tests we ask 
people to test on images, 3 relate to actually installing - entire disk, 
autoresize and manual partitioning - each of those has a testcase 
associated with it in the same way as package testcases do - read the 
testcase - do what it asks - report your result.


The Live Session test can be undertaken while you are completing one of 
the 3 install tests, or if you wish as a stand-alone test.


All of these testcases can be done on a virtual machine, but if you are 
intending to do the auto-resize test you MUST have both an existing AND 
sufficient disk space for the recommended disk size.


The final image testcase, Post-Install, obviously requires you to have 
an installed system to test.


Further questions to the mailing list or IRC - for specific Xubuntu QA 
help please join, #xubuntu-devel more general enquiries on #ubuntu-quality


Hope that helps

Elfy

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Re: Testing packages and images

[Elfy]

On 01/09/14 19:38, Dave wrote:

Hi All,
I have just finished a full days testing with the beta( on real 
hardware), and come to post results and find that they are closed 
off.. I am unable to post them.

I did find one major problem, that needed to be reported.
When trying to install using the auto resize option it would 
constantly fail.

This was tested on a HP 6730b laptop core 2 dual 2.5ghz with 4gb of ram.
full wipe and re-install works perfect along with all the apps.
regards
Dave
The milestone tests are closed when they're released - that was last 
Thursday ;)


If you had an issue with the beta then you'd have the same one I suspect 
with the daily.


Try that perhaps.

On 01 September 2014 at 15:22 Elfy  wrote:

With Feature Freeze 2 weeks past, UI and Doc Freeze [1] rapidly 
approaching us we need to push on with testing in order that any bugs 
can be found in time for us to have any chance of getting fixes 
released.


Final Beta is in the week commencing 22nd September.

I would really like to see more results reported for the Package 
Testsuites A -D [2] - currently we have 1 or 2 results for each test. 
You don't need to specifically test against the testcase - if you are 
RUNNING Utopic and you use one of the packages, just run your eye 
over the testcase, the chances are high that anything you do with an 
application more than cover the test - *just report it.*


There are image tests available [3] *every day*when there is no 
milestone freeze. When I last took stock of where we were on that, we 
had


52 64-bit image tests run out of 580 available, for 32 bit it was 
worse, there we only had 22 out of 580.


You don't need to run every test - even booting the livecd in a vm is 
more than we're getting now. Though once you've done that - it's not 
too far to running an install test for us all.


We did enormously good work last cycle, let's try and catch some of 
that for the remainder of this cycle - and for those of you not 
counting - that is ONLY 8 weeks.


Regards

Elfy



[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
[2] 
http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases 


[3] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds
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Testing packages and images

[Elfy]

With Feature Freeze 2 weeks past, UI and Doc Freeze [1] rapidly 
approaching us we need to push on with testing in order that any bugs 
can be found in time for us to have any chance of getting fixes released.


Final Beta is in the week commencing 22nd September.

I would really like to see more results reported for the Package 
Testsuites A -D [2] - currently we have 1 or 2 results for each test. 
You don't need to specifically test against the testcase - if you are 
RUNNING Utopic and you use one of the packages, just run your eye over 
the testcase, the chances are high that anything you do with an 
application more than cover the test - *_just report it._*


There are image tests available [3] *every day*//when there is no 
milestone freeze. When I last took stock of where we were on that, we had


52 64-bit image tests run out of 580 available, for 32 bit it was worse, 
there we only had 22 out of 580.


You don't need to run _every_ test - even booting the livecd in a vm is 
more than we're getting now. Though once you've done that - it's not too 
far to running an install test for us all.


We did enormously good work last cycle, let's try and catch some of that 
for the remainder of this cycle - and for those of you not counting - 
that is ONLY 8 weeks.


Regards

Elfy



[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
[2] 
http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases

[3] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds

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Re: Utopic Beta 1 Testing

[Elfy]

On 25/08/14 10:46, Elfy wrote:
Shortly the first milestone that we are participating in will be 
available for testing.


Can people download and test the beta for us all.

The download can be found, with the test reporting pages at the image 
tracker http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker


http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker

If you test via a virtual machine it is possible that you will see 
video corruption [1] - go to tty1 then back to tty7 and you should see 
the install/try dialogue (in a default virtualbox that's Right Ctrl+F1 
and Right Ctrl+F7)


Thanks in advance for testing.

As always - *unreported tests don't count.*

regards

Elfy


[1] http://imgur.com/VJq3BNu
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heads up on a few issues you might see

If booting with a usb you might get a com32r error - 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/casper/+bug/1325801


(in a usb created by unetbootin, the 'live' workround mentioned in that 
bug is not appropriate - I had success with unetbootindefault)


You might get video corruption in a vm (tested with vbox) going to tty1 
then tty7 will show the install/try screen - 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/syslinux/+bug/1357702


Problems configuring wifi in live session - 
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/network-manager/+bug/1351590



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Re: Utopic Beta 1 Testing

[Elfy]

On 25/08/14 10:46, Elfy wrote:
Shortly the first milestone that we are participating in will be 
available for testing.


Can people download and test the beta for us all.

The download can be found, with the test reporting pages at the image 
tracker http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker


http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker

If you test via a virtual machine it is possible that you will see 
video corruption [1] - go to tty1 then back to tty7 and you should see 
the install/try dialogue (in a default virtualbox that's Right Ctrl+F1 
and Right Ctrl+F7)


Thanks in advance for testing.

As always - *unreported tests don't count.*

regards

Elfy


[1] http://imgur.com/VJq3BNu
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Finally we have something

64 bit tests and download from 
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/322/builds/76880/testcases


32 bit tests and download from 
http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/322/builds/76882/testcases


Thanks everyone

go forth a test and *report* ;)

Elfy

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Re: Utopic Beta 1 Testing

[Elfy]

On 25/08/14 10:46, Elfy wrote:
Shortly the first milestone that we are participating in will be 
available for testing.


Can people download and test the beta for us all.

The download can be found, with the test reporting pages at the image 
tracker http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker


http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker

If you test via a virtual machine it is possible that you will see 
video corruption [1] - go to tty1 then back to tty7 and you should see 
the install/try dialogue (in a default virtualbox that's Right Ctrl+F1 
and Right Ctrl+F7)


Thanks in advance for testing.

As always - *unreported tests don't count.*

regards

Elfy


[1] http://imgur.com/VJq3BNu
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To keep people in the loop, there was an issue yesterday that needed 
resolving before our image would build, that got dealt with overnight - 
currently waiting for someone to build it.


thanks

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Re: Utopic Beta 1 Testing

[Elfy]

On 25/08/14 10:46, Elfy wrote:
Shortly the first milestone that we are participating in will be 
available for testing.


Can people download and test the beta for us all.

The download can be found, with the test reporting pages at the image 
tracker http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker


http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker

If you test via a virtual machine it is possible that you will see 
video corruption [1] - go to tty1 then back to tty7 and you should see 
the install/try dialogue (in a default virtualbox that's Right Ctrl+F1 
and Right Ctrl+F7)


Thanks in advance for testing.

As always - *unreported tests don't count.*

regards

Elfy


[1] http://imgur.com/VJq3BNu
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Ok - so betas will be building soon - they'll be found at

http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/322/builds

thanks

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Utopic Beta 1 Testing

[Elfy]

Shortly the first milestone that we are participating in will be 
available for testing.


Can people download and test the beta for us all.

The download can be found, with the test reporting pages at the image 
tracker http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker


http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker

If you test via a virtual machine it is possible that you will see video 
corruption [1] - go to tty1 then back to tty7 and you should see the 
install/try dialogue (in a default virtualbox that's Right Ctrl+F1 and 
Right Ctrl+F7)


Thanks in advance for testing.

As always - *unreported tests don't count.*

regards

Elfy


[1] http://imgur.com/VJq3BNu

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Re: Global Jam: Call For Xubuntu Tasks

[Elfy]

On 19/08/14 05:27, Stephen Michael Kellat wrote:

[snip]

Do we need specific packages tested?  Any last documentation to write?  Seeking 
new places for pkexec profiles?  Stress-testing the Core?  Patching of things 
needed?

[snip]
Stephen Michael Kellat


ANY testing of packages - especially in testsuites A -D will be an 
enormous help. [1]


ANY testing of our images will be an enormous help. [2]

It would be nice to see more than 1 or 2 names against any of them.

regards

Elfy

[1] 
http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases

[2] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds

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Re: [TEAM] Drop XChat for 14.10

[Elfy]

On 31/07/14 08:44, Simon Steinbeiß wrote:
[snip] Be that as it may... Why I wanted to go ahead with this 
proposal is because I think that 14.10 is the perfect time to 
experiment a bit and get some feedback on things. If people complain 
about the lack of XChat – if there's a shitstorm about it even – I 
wouldn't take that as a failure of our decision but as a great reason 
to install it again by default, knowing for sure that it makes sense 
for many users. 


Then it seem disingenuous to ask for people to vote on  a proposal if 
what you really want to do - is can xchat anyway.


That said, if the reason is to gauge all people's use of IRC - then 
remove pidgin as well. Or make it so people can't use pidgin for IRC.



Cheers Simon 

Anway - I'm still -1 but have used enough energy on this now.


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Re: [TEAM] Drop XChat for 14.10

[Elfy]

On 31/07/14 08:14, Pasi Lallinaho wrote:

On 2014-07-31 06:33, Micah Gersten wrote:

On 07/29/2014 07:10 AM, Simon Steinbeiß wrote:

Hey Xubuntu team members,

we started voting on a proposal for the default IRC client in today's
meeting[0].

In short, what we're voting on is whether to drop XChat for Xubuntu
14.10.

== Rationale ==

Those who need IRC can still use pidgin and this is a consistent move
in terms of streamlining our default applications (remember the
dropping of GThumb in 14.04).
This decision would be revisited for 15.04, so if we'd see the need, we
could re-add XChat (or hexchat).

== Voting ==

Just reply with +1, 0 or -1 to this thread – you can obviously also
explain why you voted one or the other way. So far, we have 4 votes
from team members for the proposal to drop XChat and 0 against (and 0
abstained).

Please note that ONLY XUBUNTU TEAM MEMBERS CAN VOTE. Other votes are
ignored, so please don't send a vote and waste bandwidth unless you are
an active member of the Xubuntu team [1].

== End of vote ==

This vote will expire in one week (June 6th, 10:00 UTC), so please send
in your votes in a timely manner.

Cheers
Simon
Xubuntu Project Lead

[0]
http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-07-29-10.30.log.txt 


[1] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members#active


-1  I used to use Pidgin's IRC support when I used the other chat
protocols supported in Pidgin.  When XChat was to be added, IIRC, I
originally pushed that we could just use Pidgin for IRC. However, I
eventually switched to XChat as Pidgin's support for 20+ channels per
server was lacking.  I've been using XChat for a while now and it seems
a very simple to use tool to access freenode amongst other servers.  I
agree with others that have stated in this thread that since IRC is such
an integral part of the Ubuntu community, we'd be best served to keep an
easy to use client like XChat.  If there is a simpler client that can be
integrated, I'd be open to that.

Thanks,
Micah



Is this argument based on solely on your own needs and wants or the 
target audience of Xubuntu?


I'd argue that most of our target audience users do not wish to join 
20+ channels (per server) at a time. On the other hand, those who do 
know how to install their favorite IRC client from the repositories. 
They might even prefer other options, like running screen and irssi on 
a server. In both of these cases the default pick for an IRC client is 
mostly irrelevant for them.


On another note for this discussion, some of the arguments against 
have been in the spirit of "if we drop Xchat, it's too hard for new 
people to join the IRC for a support question". How is running Xchat 
and finding your way to #xubuntu easier than navigating to 
http://xubuntu.org/irc/ (which is available in our installation 
slideshow) and clicking connect?


Cheers,
Pasi

On the other hand the argument to remove xchat as opposed to swapping 
hexchat for xchat appears to be based solely on


I guess people don't use xchat, and I don't use a gui irc client at all



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Re: [TEAM] Drop XChat for 14.10

[Elfy]

On 29/07/14 13:10, Simon Steinbeiß wrote:

Hey Xubuntu team members,

we started voting on a proposal for the default IRC client in today's
meeting[0].

In short, what we're voting on is whether to drop XChat for Xubuntu
14.10.

== Rationale ==

Those who need IRC can still use pidgin and this is a consistent move
in terms of streamlining our default applications (remember the
dropping of GThumb in 14.04).
This decision would be revisited for 15.04, so if we'd see the need, we
could re-add XChat (or hexchat).

== Voting ==

Just reply with +1, 0 or -1 to this thread – you can obviously also
explain why you voted one or the other way. So far, we have 4 votes
from team members for the proposal to drop XChat and 0 against (and 0
abstained).

Please note that ONLY XUBUNTU TEAM MEMBERS CAN VOTE. Other votes are
ignored, so please don't send a vote and waste bandwidth unless you are
an active member of the Xubuntu team [1].

== End of vote ==

This vote will expire in one week (June 6th, 10:00 UTC), so please send
in your votes in a timely manner.

Cheers
Simon
Xubuntu Project Lead

[0]
http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2014/xubuntu-devel.2014-07-29-10.30.log.txt
[1] https://launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team/+members#active


-1

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Package Testing Suite D

[Elfy]

Next in the list comes Suite D

Package testing, you'll need a current 14.10 image - which you can get 
here [1] - obviously while you're installing that you could also do an 
image test for us ;) [2]


Once you've installed your image - update and upgrade it (or re-install 
and report those results) as you can, then re-test the packages in 
testsuite D. IT doesn't matter if you test more than once - report more 
than once.


The package testcase suites can be found as always on the tracker [3]

You should find that the testcases are right for the version we 
currently have - _if they need tweaking_, this is NOT cause to report a 
bug on the package tracker - _report a bug against the testcase itself_,


Finally, if you are in a position, like me, to run the dev version more 
or less constantly - when you are using an application - take a look at 
the Package Tracker - read the testcase - if you have covered, or more 
than covered the test, please do report that.


As always - *unreported tests don't count.*

Elfy

[1] http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
[2] http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/315/builds
[3] 
http://packages.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/316/builds/67147/testcases 



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Re: Community Council catchup - Xubuntu Team

[Elfy]

On 29/04/14 20:43, Elfy wrote:

Hello all,

The Community Council is scheduling meetings over the next cycle with 
the various teams, councils and boards in the Ubuntu community.


The Xubuntu Team meeting is scheduled for August 7th 2014 @ 17:00UTC.

For more information, please see our Agenda[1] page on the wiki.

regards

Elfy

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda


or rather it's the week after :)

Elfy

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Re: Community Council catchup - Xubuntu Team

[Elfy]

On 29/04/14 20:43, Elfy wrote:

Hello all,

The Community Council is scheduling meetings over the next cycle with 
the various teams, councils and boards in the Ubuntu community.


The Xubuntu Team meeting is scheduled for August 7th 2014 @ 17:00UTC.

For more information, please see our Agenda[1] page on the wiki.

regards

Elfy

[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda


Just a reminder that this is next week

Elfy

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Re: Next Xubuntu Community Meeting, July 29, 10:00 UTC

[Elfy]

On 21/07/14 13:54, Sean Davis wrote:

That would be AM.



unless you are utc +3 ;)

On 07/21/2014 08:44 AM, Dave S wrote:

am or pm?


On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Sean Davis > wrote:


Hello everyone!

The next Xubuntu Community Meeting is scheduled for July 29, 2014
at 10:00 UTC.  Join us at #xubuntu-devel

Hope to see you there!

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Re: Next Xubuntu Community Meeting, July 29, 10:00 UTC

[Elfy]

On 21/07/14 13:44, Dave S wrote:

am or pm?


On Mon, Jul 21, 2014 at 7:45 AM, Sean Davis > wrote:


Hello everyone!

The next Xubuntu Community Meeting is scheduled for July 29, 2014
at 10:00 UTC.  Join us at #xubuntu-devel

Hope to see you there!

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it's UTC :)

a 24 hour clock and it is am here but likely to be pm elsewhere ...

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Re: pkexec vs. gksu

[Elfy]

On 16/07/14 00:56, Stephen Michael Kellat wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 00:18:27 +0200
Simon Steinbeiß  wrote:


Hey everyone,

following up on the discussion we had in today's meeting about pkexec
vs. gksu, I'm posting the first findings on the issue.

I got in touch with folks in #ubuntu-desktop to see why they
decided to go for pkexec over gksu. According to mdeslaur "gksu was a
bad hack, it would screen scrape su, so it would break horribly when a
pam module asked for something else than a password."

At the outset, they decided to look at all packages that depend on
gksu and create policykit files for them. I guess we don't have many
apps in this category.

I admit that I haven't looked into the differences of pkexec and gksu
myself, however, I propose the following course of action.

1. We collect all apps that would need policy-files in a wiki-page [1]
to get an overview of the workload it would take to make pkexec work
for most users/contexts.
2. We evaluate the workload and then judge how realistic it is to do
it for 14.10.
3a. If we find it's doable, we go ahead with that.
3b. If we find it's too much work, we provide gksu until we have had
enough time to do 3a.

This list is meant to be open for contributions from the community, as
the few people our team consists of can hardly grasp the many
scenarios/GUI-apps that might require root, so feel free to add your
app! (But please stick to the format that is already there.)
If there are a lot of apps, we might prioritize them – e.g. it is
obvious that apps we ship by default on our iso have the highest
priority. The rest might be up for debate.

Cheers
Simon

[1]
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap/Specifications/Utopic/Pkexec

[snip]
I do apologize for not being in attendance this morning.  My sleep was 
disturbed overnight and I wound up waking 90 minutes too early...then promptly 
going back to bed.

Beyond the "It's A Hack" contention, I'm going to throw in the issue of the 
Upstart to systemd transition.  Will pkexec play nicer with the systemd underpinnings 
compared to what we had with Upstart?  If memory serves Mark did say that Ubuntu will 
follow Debian in adopting systemd which means that will will, by reference, be on the 
receiving end too.

Stephen Michael Kellat

Systemd is a long way in the future - it's certainly not needed in this 
context. We're talking about 14.10 not 15.x or 16.x


This discussion is about what to do now.

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