[Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > ED, > > I beleive Harada's satement below referring to 'having no merit' is analagous > to Jesus' teachings in Matthew 6:3-4: > > "3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your > right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. ..." > > ...Bill! > > Hi Bill! And a further comment on a natural, uncalculated way of approaching > life: "Jesus' disciples asked him, 'How should we pray? What diet should we follow? Should we give alms?' Jesus said, 'Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven.'" -The Gospel of Thomas Steve Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
Good morning , Bill.. *s* Yes.. life would be pretty bland without this. Thanks for posting your comments on this. I agree with ED-- you helped me understand the wisdom within. I'll be off-list for a few months or more. Life twists sometimes mandate such. Be well. My best to all.. Kristy --- On Tue, 3/15/11, Bill! wrote: From: Bill! Subject: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 6:11 AM Kristy, Poetic license...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain wrote: > > Bill, > Â > Well then.. > Â > If they are no hidden meanings or secretive ideas-- then why didn't he just > say that his teachings were available to all, and he expected nothing in > return, beit praise or blame. Instead of metaphor...k > > > --- On Sun, 3/13/11, Bill! wrote: > > > From: Bill! > Subject: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 8:12 PM > > > Â > > > > ED, > > Such sayings or writings as these, including ALL koans, say exactly what they > say - and no more. There are no hidden meanings in zen, nothing eclectic or > secretive. > > 'Selling water by the river' means everything he was teaching his whole life > was readily available to all - without him as intermediary. > > 'My labors have been wholly without merit.' means he acted without any > thought or hope of merit. He just acted. No self, no karma, no merit, no > blame - Just THIS! > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > > > Master Sogaku Harada died at the age of ninety-one. > > At his funeral service hung a piece of calligraphy written by himself: > > > > "For forty years I have been selling water by the bank of a river. Ho ho > > ho. My labors have been wholly without merit." > > > > What did Master Sogaku Harada mean? > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: > > >
[Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
ED, I beleive Harada's satement below referring to 'having no merit' is analagous to Jesus' teachings in Matthew 6:3-4: "3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4 so that your giving may be in secret. ..." ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > Bill, > > Thank you for your explanation of the second statement. I took it > literally and it made no sense. Now it makes perfect sense. > > --ED > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > > > ED, > > > > Such sayings or writings as these, including ALL koans, say exactly > what they say - and no more. There are no hidden meanings in zen, > nothing eclectic or secretive. > > > > 'Selling water by the river' means everything he was teaching his > whole life was readily available to all - without him as intermediary. > > > > 'My labors have been wholly without merit.' means he acted without any > thought or hope of merit. He just acted. No self, no karma, no merit, no > blame - Just THIS! > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" seacrofter001@ wrote: > > > > > > Master Sogaku Harada died at the age of ninety-one. > > > At his funeral service hung a piece of calligraphy written by > himself: > > > > > > "For forty years I have been selling water by the bank of a river. > Ho ho > > > ho. My labors have been wholly without merit." > > > > > > What did Master Sogaku Harada mean? > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
Kristy, Poetic license...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain wrote: > > Bill, > Â > Well then.. > Â > If they are no hidden meanings or secretive ideas-- then why didn't he just > say that his teachings were available to all, and he expected nothing in > return, beit praise or blame. Instead of metaphor...k > > > --- On Sun, 3/13/11, Bill! wrote: > > > From: Bill! > Subject: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 8:12 PM > > > Â > > > > ED, > > Such sayings or writings as these, including ALL koans, say exactly what they > say - and no more. There are no hidden meanings in zen, nothing eclectic or > secretive. > > 'Selling water by the river' means everything he was teaching his whole life > was readily available to all - without him as intermediary. > > 'My labors have been wholly without merit.' means he acted without any > thought or hope of merit. He just acted. No self, no karma, no merit, no > blame - Just THIS! > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > > > > Master Sogaku Harada died at the age of ninety-one. > > At his funeral service hung a piece of calligraphy written by himself: > > > > "For forty years I have been selling water by the bank of a river. Ho ho > > ho. My labors have been wholly without merit." > > > > What did Master Sogaku Harada mean? > > > > > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
Bill, Thank you for your explanation of the second statement. I took it literally and it made no sense. Now it makes perfect sense. --ED --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Bill!" wrote: > > ED, > > Such sayings or writings as these, including ALL koans, say exactly what they say - and no more. There are no hidden meanings in zen, nothing eclectic or secretive. > > 'Selling water by the river' means everything he was teaching his whole life was readily available to all - without him as intermediary. > > 'My labors have been wholly without merit.' means he acted without any thought or hope of merit. He just acted. No self, no karma, no merit, no blame - Just THIS! > > ...Bill! > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" seacrofter001@ wrote: > > > > Master Sogaku Harada died at the age of ninety-one. > > At his funeral service hung a piece of calligraphy written by himself: > > > > "For forty years I have been selling water by the bank of a river. Ho ho > > ho. My labors have been wholly without merit." > > > > What did Master Sogaku Harada mean?
Re: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
*chuckles* Touché A good week to all..Take care Mike:) Kristy --- On Sun, 3/13/11, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: From: Chris Austin-Lane Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 10:32 PM Because what he said is much funnier. True zen laughs often. On Mar 13, 2011 9:30 PM, "Kristy McClain" wrote: Bill, Well then.. If they are no hidden meanings or secretive ideas-- then why didn't he just say that his teachings were available to all, and he expected nothing in return, beit praise or blame. Instead of metaphor...k --- On Sun, 3/13/11, Bill! wrote: From: Bill! Subject: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 8:12 PM > > > ED, > > Such sayings or writings as these, including ALL koans, say exactly what they > say -...
Re: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
Because what he said is much funnier. True zen laughs often. On Mar 13, 2011 9:30 PM, "Kristy McClain" wrote: Bill, Well then.. If they are no hidden meanings or secretive ideas-- then why didn't he just say that his teachings were available to all, and he expected nothing in return, beit praise or blame. Instead of metaphor...k --- On *Sun, 3/13/11, Bill! * wrote: From: Bill! Subject: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 8:12 PM > > > ED, > > Such sayings or writings as these, including ALL koans, say exactly what they say -...
Re: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
Bill, Well then.. If they are no hidden meanings or secretive ideas-- then why didn't he just say that his teachings were available to all, and he expected nothing in return, beit praise or blame. Instead of metaphor...k --- On Sun, 3/13/11, Bill! wrote: From: Bill! Subject: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, March 13, 2011, 8:12 PM ED, Such sayings or writings as these, including ALL koans, say exactly what they say - and no more. There are no hidden meanings in zen, nothing eclectic or secretive. 'Selling water by the river' means everything he was teaching his whole life was readily available to all - without him as intermediary. 'My labors have been wholly without merit.' means he acted without any thought or hope of merit. He just acted. No self, no karma, no merit, no blame - Just THIS! ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > Master Sogaku Harada died at the age of ninety-one. > At his funeral service hung a piece of calligraphy written by himself: > > "For forty years I have been selling water by the bank of a river. Ho ho > ho. My labors have been wholly without merit." > > What did Master Sogaku Harada mean? > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: >
[Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
ED, Such sayings or writings as these, including ALL koans, say exactly what they say - and no more. There are no hidden meanings in zen, nothing eclectic or secretive. 'Selling water by the river' means everything he was teaching his whole life was readily available to all - without him as intermediary. 'My labors have been wholly without merit.' means he acted without any thought or hope of merit. He just acted. No self, no karma, no merit, no blame - Just THIS! ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "ED" wrote: > > > Master Sogaku Harada died at the age of ninety-one. > At his funeral service hung a piece of calligraphy written by himself: > > "For forty years I have been selling water by the bank of a river. Ho ho > ho. My labors have been wholly without merit." > > What did Master Sogaku Harada mean? > > > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming wrote: > > > > Good Morning Bill, Chris, Mel and All, > > > > Thank you for your feedback. Because these terminology is not in the > > "usual" zen dictionary. I needed to know whether I should continue on > > this path, though Chan uses primarily Tao in practice and Buddhism in > > describing spirituality. I also sensed that probably people are too > > nice to me and left my post alone, because Zen does not speak this > way. :-) > > > > Buddha taught for 49 years. And his teachings probably contains the > > most material describing various states of spirituality. I sense > > probably it is time to talk a little about spirituality. > > > > Words such as Kensho, Satori, Samadhi are all from Buddhism and are > all > > labels for a certain spiritual state, or realm, or level, or whatever > > you prefer. Nonetheless, spiritual states are difficult to describe no > > matter what label we use. > > > > The goal here is trying to connect spirituality with our daily life, > in > > other words explain the relationship of our heart and our mind how to > > relate them to our practice. > > > > On the other hand, I noticed that there are very few discussion about > > nirvana, enlightenment, Buddhahood. These are the essence of our > > practice. These are not goals, as rejected by Zen purest, but > > spirituality states we could witness. After 6, 7 years on this forum, > I > > sense it is probably time to say it clearly that "we all can be > > enlightened in this life." Buddha did it in 13 years. My teacher did > > it in 8 years. Why can't we. > > > > We all can. Yet we have to start with the unfiltered communication and > > the unfiltered practice with an engaged and honest witness. If the > > communication are filtered by our mind, then the rest of it will also > be > > filtered out. > > > > JM > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
I only like such posts for arguing, but I like you too much, JMJM, to argue with all your posts. But, since you ask, Isn't any realm still a conditioned and relative existence? Do we not strive to dissolve all such distinctions? On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 4:33 PM, Bill! wrote: > JMJM, > > I usually don't respond to posts on Buddhism, or on traditional beliefs or > teachings that have been built up around zen. I don't know that much about > these topics and they seldom hold interest for me. > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 > wrote: >> >> Dear All, >> >> Since my last post, there was not any response. I assumed that my last >> post was not clear or foreign in terminology. Please allow me to elaborate. >> >> There are ten realms according to Buddhism. The Human realm is the >> fifth from the top. The Bodhisatva realm is the second only to Buddha. >> >> Bodhisatva realm is pure heart, which is pure compassion, pure wisdom >> and pure joy and above all karma. >> Human realm is thinking in human terms, act in human ways with some >> self-interest and trapped in forms. >> >> When our spirit is in the Bodhisatva realm, our heart is filled with >> wisdom, compassion and joy. We live based on the wisdom of the moment >> with harmonious intentions, because in this realm, our heart is one with >> the other without separation. >> >> As soon as we begin to think, to analyze, to judge, our spirit drops >> right back down to human realm, we think, act with limited human >> knowledge/experience and self interest. We are then trapped in form. >> Sutra labels this state of being as reincarnation, for it is an endless >> chase of relativity. >> >> When our spirit is in the realm of Bodhisatva, we are not affect by all >> the forms. We are able to penetrate to the veil of self defense. We >> are able to be connected to the invisible wisdom of the moment to >> harmonize the situation. Buddhist say to resolve all karma. >> >> This is way I was taught, practice and witness the way to rid of the >> Five Poisons. >> >> Just for your reference. Thank you for your attention. >> >> JMJM >> Head Teacher >> Order of Chan >> >> -- >> Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can >> http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com >> http://www.heartchan.org >> > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Re: Five Poisons II
JMJM, I usually don't respond to posts on Buddhism, or on traditional beliefs or teachings that have been built up around zen. I don't know that much about these topics and they seldom hold interest for me. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ wrote: > > Dear All, > > Since my last post, there was not any response. I assumed that my last > post was not clear or foreign in terminology. Please allow me to elaborate. > > There are ten realms according to Buddhism. The Human realm is the > fifth from the top. The Bodhisatva realm is the second only to Buddha. > > Bodhisatva realm is pure heart, which is pure compassion, pure wisdom > and pure joy and above all karma. > Human realm is thinking in human terms, act in human ways with some > self-interest and trapped in forms. > > When our spirit is in the Bodhisatva realm, our heart is filled with > wisdom, compassion and joy. We live based on the wisdom of the moment > with harmonious intentions, because in this realm, our heart is one with > the other without separation. > > As soon as we begin to think, to analyze, to judge, our spirit drops > right back down to human realm, we think, act with limited human > knowledge/experience and self interest. We are then trapped in form. > Sutra labels this state of being as reincarnation, for it is an endless > chase of relativity. > > When our spirit is in the realm of Bodhisatva, we are not affect by all > the forms. We are able to penetrate to the veil of self defense. We > are able to be connected to the invisible wisdom of the moment to > harmonize the situation. Buddhist say to resolve all karma. > > This is way I was taught, practice and witness the way to rid of the > Five Poisons. > > Just for your reference. Thank you for your attention. > > JMJM > Head Teacher > Order of Chan > > -- > Be Enlightened In This Life - We ALL Can > http://chanjmjm.blogspot.com > http://www.heartchan.org > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
