[Zim-wiki] Zim 0.47 adding a test-pyzim page?
After installing Zim 0.47 I notice this page that did not exist before: """ test-pyzim Created Saturday 27 March 2010 This is a TestPage for a buh. """ Might this be an error in the Zim code, or did I really add that page? Does it look familiar to anyone who's installed 0.47? -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] latex export - why is usepackage ulem needed?
Hi,
I can use \underline without ulem, but I found now, that ulem ist used
for struck out text (\sout{...}).
regards,
stefan
On Tue, Jun 08, 2010 at 09:06:01PM +0200, Johannes Reinhardt wrote:
> The ulem package is used to typeset text in underline style underlined.
> I missed the fact that the emph style is wrong. I fixed the templates
> in this branch:
>
> lp:~johannes-reinhardt/zim/fixes
>
> @Jaap: It noticed that the options structure mechanism does not work for
> the LaTeX templates. The options dict that is passed to the dumper is
> always empty. I fail to completely understand the code you wrote for
> that, perhaps you can take a look.
>
> Thanks for the report
>
> Johannes
>
>
> On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:20:16 +0200
> s...@z107.de wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am wondering, why the \usepackage{ulem} is defined in the latex
> > template. With this package, emphasised text (\emph{} in the tex
> > file) is underlined instead of italic.
> > I would prefere the same format in the pdf and in zim (where it is
> > possible), so in this case I would prefere italic. The HTML export uses
> > italic letters for emphasised text.
> >
> > Or is there another reason for using ulem?
> >
> > best regards,
> > Stefan
> >
> > ___
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> --
> Johannes Reinhardt
>
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Re: [Zim-wiki] latex export - why is usepackage ulem needed?
The ulem package is used to typeset text in underline style underlined.
I missed the fact that the emph style is wrong. I fixed the templates
in this branch:
lp:~johannes-reinhardt/zim/fixes
@Jaap: It noticed that the options structure mechanism does not work for
the LaTeX templates. The options dict that is passed to the dumper is
always empty. I fail to completely understand the code you wrote for
that, perhaps you can take a look.
Thanks for the report
Johannes
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 11:20:16 +0200
s...@z107.de wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am wondering, why the \usepackage{ulem} is defined in the latex
> template. With this package, emphasised text (\emph{} in the tex
> file) is underlined instead of italic.
> I would prefere the same format in the pdf and in zim (where it is
> possible), so in this case I would prefere italic. The HTML export uses
> italic letters for emphasised text.
>
> Or is there another reason for using ulem?
>
> best regards,
> Stefan
>
> ___
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki
> Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
--
Johannes Reinhardt
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Re: [Zim-wiki] Two critical issues for me in Zim
On 8 June 2010 14:40, Jaap Karssenberg wrote: > Yes, but you didn't answer my main design question: when should zim > automatically escape data and when should it assume the user is > wanting to input wiki text ? > When the user tells it so! That would be when the user presses the "automatically parse formatting" button or activates the keyboard shortcut. > As stated before we can disable all use of wiki syntax in the editor, > but than we loose a feature I know is used a lot by specific users. > By "wiki syntax" I assume that you mean parsing **for** __formatting__? I agree, it would be terrible to loose that. That is why a toggle would solve most use cases. I personally would suggest allowing fine-grain control of what to parse and what not, as I am a heavy list user, but don't use anything else other than headings (keyboard shortcut) generally. Zim already lets the user enable/disable CaMeLcAsE and turning file paths into links, this is the natural extension of that. > If the concern is only about pasting data we can solve that by a > special paste command as discussed before. If the concern applies to > all editing, it is much more difficult to get it right. > Yes, it is all editing. Although I often paste code, I do edit it in place. > I'm not unwilling to add a way to escape wiki syntax. But I would like > to come to a good design decision how this should work and when it > should be applied. > Of course. I would rather this wait another 20 revisions and get done right, rather than rush a bad design decision into 0.48. How about just embedding an OpenOffice.org Writer window in the text pane and be done with it! > Btw. zim does in fact have some semantic features, it was designed to > more semantic than just markup, and if anything I wish to improve on > that. For example the search function does rate text in a heading > higher than text in a normal paragraph. Another example is that when > exporting the headings can be adjusted automatically to make sure the > levels are properly nested. > I know, that is why I used the word "currently". -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Two critical issues for me in Zim
On Tue, 8 Jun 2010 13:01:25 +0300 Dotan Cohen wrote: > 1) Currently, there is no semantic usage of markup anywhere in Zim. > For instance, there is no Table of Contents, no searching only > headers, no functions for interacting with the markup in any way. Good point, but you suggested to change that: https://bugs.launchpad.net/zim/+bug/373280 > 2) Users _will_ be sloppy and paste code without marking it as such. > Causing dataloss in this case is beyond forbidden. It is a real reason > that I have been looking for a Zim alternative for the past week or > so. On the other hand I love being able to copy-paste text containing markup and see Zim render it with the markup actually being parsed. Users will share this love. > 3) I personally like some code to be fixed-width (Python snippets, for > instance) but others to be variable, such as bash. > ... What you are basically saying is, that you want to put your code (verbatim, escaped whatever) into any format you choose. This could be achieved by something similar to the %% (double percent) in dokuwiki. If that is what you mean, I agree that this is useful. > 4) The real issue is not code, but whether the user can trust Zim not > to alter his precious data. Currently, the answer is no. This is a duplicate of 2) as I see it. > The argument for exporting to Latex is again the semantic argument. And how would that make it less valid? Adds to my comment for 1). Please allow me to sum it up slightly different: 1) You (and supposedly several others) want Zim to ignore wiki markup and display whatever you type as-is in any font and formatting you choose for that particular data. There is no way to achieve this right now. 2) To me (and supposedly several others) wiki is not only about links, but a whole lot about markup as well. In fact, I could live with a non-wiki link mechanism as long as the markup was still there. If I want something to be printed bold, I type **something** and don't care about formatting shortcuts, menus or toolbars. And I don't want to care. If I want to print **something** (with the stars kept) in-line with my text, I have to resort to typing ''**something**'' and live with the monospace. I cannot keep the same font if I wanted to. It is not possible to fully satisfy 1) and 2) at the same time, but introducing a way of escaping markup no matter where the parser picks it up (e.g. by %% like dokuwiki), would make 1) and 2) possible. We would only have to agree on whether Ctrl-V behaviour remains as-is or is changed to "escaped paste", and give e.g. Ctrl-Shift-V the respective other meaning. -- Fabian Moser signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Two critical issues for me in Zim
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Dotan Cohen wrote: > I argue that yes, code should be allowed anywhere, based on these points: > 1) Currently, there is no semantic usage of markup anywhere in Zim. > For instance, there is no Table of Contents, no searching only > headers, no functions for interacting with the markup in any way. > 2) Users _will_ be sloppy and paste code without marking it as such. > Causing dataloss in this case is beyond forbidden. It is a real reason > that I have been looking for a Zim alternative for the past week or > so. > 3) I personally like some code to be fixed-width (Python snippets, for > instance) but others to be variable, such as bash. English lettering > is not my natural lettering, and fixed-width is very difficult for me > to read. That said, I do want to use it in some special cases. > Therefore, there is no "code" but rather "this-type-of-code" and > "that-type-of-code" and Zim should not force the user to display it > all in the same way. This is one of MS's biggest criticisms: my way or > the highway. Don't make Zim like this too. > 4) The real issue is not code, but whether the user can trust Zim not > to alter his precious data. Currently, the answer is no. Yes, but you didn't answer my main design question: when should zim automatically escape data and when should it assume the user is wanting to input wiki text ? As stated before we can disable all use of wiki syntax in the editor, but than we loose a feature I know is used a lot by specific users. If the concern is only about pasting data we can solve that by a special paste command as discussed before. If the concern applies to all editing, it is much more difficult to get it right. I'm not unwilling to add a way to escape wiki syntax. But I would like to come to a good design decision how this should work and when it should be applied. Btw. zim does in fact have some semantic features, it was designed to more semantic than just markup, and if anything I wish to improve on that. For example the search function does rate text in a heading higher than text in a normal paragraph. Another example is that when exporting the headings can be adjusted automatically to make sure the levels are properly nested. Regards, Jaap ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Two critical issues for me in Zim
On 8 June 2010 10:05, Jaap Karssenberg wrote: > Well, the way to escape the things is by using the verbatim style. > Since all wiki syntax uses double characters (so **asterisks** are > bold but *asterisk* is normal, idem for __underscore__ verus > _underscore_, :colon: will be turned into a link when typed, not when > pasted, use ^Z to ignore it when typing) the assumption is that this > will only happen in code snippets and similar text. For these types of > text verbatim gives the proper formatting and escapes all wiki syntax. > To sum it up, there are two appreaches: 1) To require that all code be in a special formatting (currently called Verbatim, probably better called Code). 2) To allow code to be in any arbitrary place in the page. The current behaviour is the former, do we want the latter to be allow as well? I argue that yes, code should be allowed anywhere, based on these points: 1) Currently, there is no semantic usage of markup anywhere in Zim. For instance, there is no Table of Contents, no searching only headers, no functions for interacting with the markup in any way. 2) Users _will_ be sloppy and paste code without marking it as such. Causing dataloss in this case is beyond forbidden. It is a real reason that I have been looking for a Zim alternative for the past week or so. 3) I personally like some code to be fixed-width (Python snippets, for instance) but others to be variable, such as bash. English lettering is not my natural lettering, and fixed-width is very difficult for me to read. That said, I do want to use it in some special cases. Therefore, there is no "code" but rather "this-type-of-code" and "that-type-of-code" and Zim should not force the user to display it all in the same way. This is one of MS's biggest criticisms: my way or the highway. Don't make Zim like this too. 4) The real issue is not code, but whether the user can trust Zim not to alter his precious data. Currently, the answer is no. > There are two arguments to keep it like this, the first being that by > using a special style for this type of text it can be formatted > accordingly when exporting to e.g. latex or html. Second argument is > that adding an escape character to allow un-parsed wiki text > everywhere makes the parse quite a bit more complex. That said it > could be implemented. My main discussion point is when to actually use > such an escape during editing. > The argument for exporting to Latex is again the semantic argument. As for code complexity, the user doesn't care. _I_ care, and I really appreciate the work that it would take to fix this, but frankly users don't. But I'll be a man and put my wallet where my mouth is: I cannot code this, but someone will expend a lot of time to fix this. I'll put a $10USD (via Paypal) bounty on it. I really cannot pay more, I am in the minus and we're resorting to reusable diapers for the past few weeks (seriously, it's that bad) but I offer the bounty not as payment for coding time (that would be insulting) but rather as an expression of appreciation and to show that I do understand that effort is being expended to fix this. > Keep in mind that you can change the visual style of the verbatim > blocks quite easily. E.g. if you don't like the monospace font you can > set any other font for this style. > Yes, I changed the Heading styles to fit me. I do use the Verbatim as monospace in some places. -- Dotan Cohen http://gibberish.co.il http://what-is-what.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Zim-wiki] latex export - why is usepackage ulem needed?
Hello,
I am wondering, why the \usepackage{ulem} is defined in the latex
template. With this package, emphasised text (\emph{} in the tex
file) is underlined instead of italic.
I would prefere the same format in the pdf and in zim (where it is
possible), so in this case I would prefere italic. The HTML export uses
italic letters for emphasised text.
Or is there another reason for using ulem?
best regards,
Stefan
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Re: [Zim-wiki] Two critical issues for me in Zim
El día Tue, 08 Jun 2010 17:14:37 +0900, nomnex escribía: > I am extrapolating, but if we can determine that most of the Zim users > use Zim to write code snippets, then syntax highlighting (see comment > about cherrytree, in the mailing list archive) would be a nice feature, > if it can be implemented. Just for the record, I never use Zim for code (I'm not a programmer). I use it mainly to take notes and outline things I have to do. -- Roberto Suarez Soto ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Two critical issues for me in Zim
On Tue, 2010-06-08 at 09:05 +0200, Jaap Karssenberg wrote: > Keep in mind that you can change the visual style of the verbatim > blocks quite easily. E.g. if you don't like the monospace font you can > set any other font for this style. And what about a menu "Font type" and "Font size" for Verbatim text? Wouldn't better than toggling on/off the wiki parsing? If I recall, there is already a bug report about font selection for a page or a notebook? It could be merged. I am extrapolating, but if we can determine that most of the Zim users use Zim to write code snippets, then syntax highlighting (see comment about cherrytree, in the mailing list archive) would be a nice feature, if it can be implemented. I am not sure if some user feedback along the list is of any use to Jaap? I use Zim mainly for learning HTML/XML/JS and soon PHP (my notes). bye, nomnex ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Zim-wiki] Two critical issues for me in Zim
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 6:42 AM, Dotan Cohen wrote: > On 8 June 2010 03:30, Pedro wrote: >> Verbatim text is an important feature and should have central importance. >> That said, I believe it's perfectly possible to improve zim in that >> particular aspect with very little impact on user experience. >> > > I am not arguing to remove verbatim text. I am arguing to have options > not to parse wikicode such as *asterisks* :colons: _underscores_ and > whatever parses. > > Jaap, if there is such resistance to adding these options in the core > of Zim, could these options be added in a plugin? I don't know how > that mechanism works, I do not know if it is possible. Well, the way to escape the things is by using the verbatim style. Since all wiki syntax uses double characters (so **asterisks** are bold but *asterisk* is normal, idem for __underscore__ verus _underscore_, :colon: will be turned into a link when typed, not when pasted, use ^Z to ignore it when typing) the assumption is that this will only happen in code snippets and similar text. For these types of text verbatim gives the proper formatting and escapes all wiki syntax. There are two arguments to keep it like this, the first being that by using a special style for this type of text it can be formatted accordingly when exporting to e.g. latex or html. Second argument is that adding an escape character to allow un-parsed wiki text everywhere makes the parse quite a bit more complex. That said it could be implemented. My main discussion point is when to actually use such an escape during editing. Keep in mind that you can change the visual style of the verbatim blocks quite easily. E.g. if you don't like the monospace font you can set any other font for this style. Regards, Jaap ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki Post to : zim-wiki@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~zim-wiki More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
