[ZODB-Dev] Plone in P2P using Zope over DHT
Hi, I'm part of a development team who are helping an organisation to architect a CMS based project that they want to work in a P2P network rather than using a centralised web-server. We'd prefer to use an existing popular CMS as a starting point so that it is mature, has a large development community and a wide range of extensions/modules available. From our initial research it seems that Plone should be more capable of moving in to the P2P space due to it using ZODB rather than SQL and that ZODB seems able to be connected to a variety of storage mechanisms. I'm wondering what you guys, the core developers, think of the practicalities of Plone in P2P, for example could ZODB use a DHT as its storage layer? what kind of querying is required on the DHT? We have a good budget available for this and will be developing it as a completely free open source component, so we'd also like to hear from developers who may be interested in working on the project too. Thanks, Aran ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Plone in P2P using Zope over DHT
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Aran Dunkley wrote: I'm wondering what you guys, the core developers, think of the practicalities of Plone in P2P, for example could ZODB use a DHT as its storage layer? what kind of querying is required on the DHT? No idea what P2P means to you in particular. The ZODB is a mandatory requirement for Plone as storage layer. You may work on storage layer implementation for the ZODB fulfilling your requirements (similar to Relstorage implementing a RDBMS backend for the ZODB). I have strong doubts that a P2P or (cloud-ish) backend is feasible as the ZODB is ACID compatible and ACID is basically something you can not achieve in the cloud or better spoken in a highly distributed environment. - -aj - -- ZOPYX Limited | zopyx group Charlottenstr. 37/1 | The full-service network for Zope Plone D-72070 Tübingen| Produce Publish www.zopyx.com | www.produce-and-publish.com - E-Publishing, Python, Zope Plone development, Consulting -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJNIrFoAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjK7ELwKXWquWP4BuqEq5BNivjEQOy F5FQZNSzTHtNlSLOjFNbQetcXm7ESRAUw/7Vu2o8Ds4a+J8KUMM8VkRVqr0I8oqm EbjlDpD9m+tIWQXH5YhKP75r/QzjZ9iT1XrnZIH5q3nFyY48zCpJs1yrCGcIYORd xJasPTjcWshArzT6lTu4XRnPNIZmyvw5JgW3LDu3SrlFOLj+NRY+wqVlXAk52SNK YxwMvEn9LfKA6yL20uhUk7KkYeoQP0OZeQISV33SVjKLEMKU0UQYZTABfrcfmJgp hlMiU652JUsn1VcQD+6w9TXJ0dOLpBgVWtuE8sIxviSZIu57UIbUdGOIEuNTXAt/ Mlnvp6W9gXGPLY7iU8QAeWZpPa4j+Nal+kFqVJo98ZI0I4dTo/cLd9H6OcECNbUF LLsUHYE6uI/uOKlavM+uKLERBtoleKNYxu0EaF/ZtXSvGwiSQv1Wp+s6TgHoGLBR Mq2THaTGogmHUOlAvJ7drk2oJP5UpYo= =nQC8 -END PGP SIGNATURE- attachment: lists.vcf___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Plone in P2P using Zope over DHT
I mean P2P as in using a DHT (distributed hash table) for its storage layer so that it can run in a network composed only of the client users with no web-server, the same way that the file-sharing programs such as azzureus and aMule work. We can develop a basic wiki/blog in this way, but would prefer a mature CMS like Plone. On 04/01/11 18:34, Andreas Jung wrote: Aran Dunkley wrote: I'm wondering what you guys, the core developers, think of the practicalities of Plone in P2P, for example could ZODB use a DHT as its storage layer? what kind of querying is required on the DHT? No idea what P2P means to you in particular. The ZODB is a mandatory requirement for Plone as storage layer. You may work on storage layer implementation for the ZODB fulfilling your requirements (similar to Relstorage implementing a RDBMS backend for the ZODB). I have strong doubts that a P2P or (cloud-ish) backend is feasible as the ZODB is ACID compatible and ACID is basically something you can not achieve in the cloud or better spoken in a highly distributed environment. -aj ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Plone in P2P using Zope over DHT
Hey Andreas, I don't know much about Aran's project, so you are right to wonder the necessity to have yet another storage backend. Maybe he has needs and requirements that can't be fulfilled by the current backends. Aran, can you fill us in a little on the necessity of having a DHT ? What are the requirements you're trying to fulfill for your project ? Cheers -Marc @mastachand http://linkd.in/heve30 On Jan 3, 2011, at 11:06 PM, Andreas Jung wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marc Villemade wrote: Hey Andreas, I think it makes sense if the storage backend is hosted on-premise (hence private cloud), and i think that's what Aran is thinking about. They could have Plone-ZODB-Storage backend in the same datacenter, hence no latency problem and good network throughput, provided that the cloud storage used is capable of offering high performance. First you should bring up arguments why the existing backends like ZEO, Relstorage or NEO are not good enough in your case. Looking at the development history of Relstorage or NEO: implementing an enterprise-level storage for the ZODB seems to be hard and time-consuming (and expensive). - -aj -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJNIsbnAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjcesLwMPmfuPkHoTWGOFHJ5SdUmQZ cYBpUmNjX6X1uDfoUC+oDQvXBJHQ0Us5kSk2u0KBhReBXF6oiLWT/zpB1EO7VgrJ IxaWXnVr5c/mFWGdyHq1ok0Mmyu0eprQ7sVc4pxhUi6V/1fpC6+W8yv1zpukCWIa ErBbozqSCoJ3XRgrlrl0ppwHeutVeOQsqMZmeq3mJ4OlfqDmjVfD5qupdAUybVDY mtKcEJPnvmyPM9ftKgr2yUULkit5knnH4xtbZHvk/kGgk/r3k4zEEi20TXtmn1/2 Anjr3/GT54LvzZWb5qYcmnBbhmcERJulNjN7aWTJDXNH1QfaLuuI6afBH0iLAxjv o9jM8mWxFvjsob2QVRgC7uGSFesebXc/bhdl0oPWyJ2hX3jY5vwkbFt6XVDmvkdY OZOJiCcX2SLUhzmc669De2TCaTcl6szPhw0ZsHfZcwNLSusH276O4pFDoxxrKCAU pT1gKXVBNbX+m4ligYGBLRx+n++lrTg= =dOSV -END PGP SIGNATURE- lists.vcf ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Plone in P2P using Zope over DHT
I have looked at NEO which is the closest thing I've found to the answer, in fact NEO is why I felt Plone was the best choice of CMS to inquire further about The problem is that it uses SQL for its indexing queries (they quote NoSQL as meaning Not only SQL). SQL cannot work in P2P space, but can be made to work on server-clusters. We intend not to have any machines in our network other than the users computers running the P2P application. So we would need to know exactly what kinds of querying ZODB expects to be available in its interface to the storage layer. DHT's can be slow for the first read but cache locally after that. On 04/01/11 20:06, Andreas Jung wrote: Marc Villemade wrote: Hey Andreas, I think it makes sense if the storage backend is hosted on-premise (hence private cloud), and i think that's what Aran is thinking about. They could have Plone-ZODB-Storage backend in the same datacenter, hence no latency problem and good network throughput, provided that the cloud storage used is capable of offering high performance. First you should bring up arguments why the existing backends like ZEO, Relstorage or NEO are not good enough in your case. Looking at the development history of Relstorage or NEO: implementing an enterprise-level storage for the ZODB seems to be hard and time-consuming (and expensive). -aj ___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
Re: [ZODB-Dev] Plone in P2P using Zope over DHT
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Marc Villemade wrote: Hey Andreas, I don't know much about Aran's project, so you are right to wonder the necessity to have yet another storage backend. Maybe he has needs and requirements that can't be fulfilled by the current backends. That's exactly the point: put the requirements on the desk and check each of the existing storage backends against the requirements. Then make a decision whether you really need a new storage implementation or if there is a chance for using an existing solution (or providing funding for feature extensions) or starting with a complete a new project (taking possibly a long time (years) for becoming mature enough for production). - -aj -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJNIspNAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjeqYLvi1UECuf5Zxp8JlrP51IDWtY m4pNJzXJyAHKE/U0yFH2hcjJpVWZUQytu9XgiQj9ZASMgL/OLRIurl1O3RC4u5lc yzq4qIKVR8oP2XAuTNpsq6jvAFgkoeLvxxLtks5L/YSxz9W/9+Gvm6zLFxjCVLde L+H+vVViRUpdF9EeKp9TbSNVALIxs3lx5qREFoFsOhq43Potl7c846GGzwD/NKTb W2++9WAlSh6vOPDBMMyDquO+MABehqLSOE6sQ297ZvcU9NJ2AtIzcr8IiHD6jSpA Jft9yhAGqVt/oljUdTtNKayNxqJDWDSKNEI58q62TO6VMIa8xOTfVqxrWjnh4TOU QfBHGxfPiGKVFaonCvBO+aQ72dlKhwR8t7yU4f3II99xeMYmUPNAEmJZcdkkd5M3 cuovoIDJSJVuwAPe/QI1h7oDqL7iIE2ZAMXL3T8g5LyXFp1NtvMsUc2gm6u3TgFL va2S4Zb7axxB/2PiYeLZrJtyv1a3A6w= =kf64 -END PGP SIGNATURE- attachment: lists.vcf___ For more information about ZODB, see the ZODB Wiki: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/ZODB/ ZODB-Dev mailing list - ZODB-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zodb-dev
