Re: [Zope] Zope2 - pro/contra
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Eric Bréhault wrote: Hello Sebastian, I guess the main problem is the future maintenance of Zope. For instance, it is pretty sure that nobody will invest the time needed to move it Python 3, and at some point it will probably be a problem. The Zope development is almost dead and there only a few people keeping it alive in terms of security maintenance etc. It would be unhonest to compare Zope technology with a zombie but Zope was great technology, mistakes had been made and all technology turns at some point into legacy mode. Some part of the ZCA are still great and while other parts of the ZCA should be considered as an architectural software fail. The ZODB is still great and must not hide behind so-called NOSQL technology - the ZODB as NOSQL ten years ago and it still superb in some way. Personally I don't see Zope on Python 3 happen at any time soon, I don't see Plone X running on Python 3 at any time soon..it's all legacy and we have to live with that. For new projects it is time to move on and learn from the good and parts of the Zope world in order to create something better. Cheers - -aj -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJU9zXtAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjqtYLvR4GJAmEGbV7Zq2wkvKIfQf8 WXVZPOUDRHzj0m/K8/Af4zxNA72bjQ5Dn+haIP+1qwyRSFxT1HcACyxf3huIF8wO newUgiSYf6GfIvvw1o5P4F0CDDuOEgUwPyB8sNsJyecnmTjo0rlSXtFbzEPrArwo UDlcsf+KGDJLvRFAIny/NzMP7ZCWWw17onAO4i6oGYMwhRcrU2ZGJBN1zZCBs8Ry YUsbprS5ydDBQOceMgxdAyVNTkiQNOPgTg3NEhp38IOuWmNqWYQAgKByysJdkKqf LLc4D7a4Y19KqoMljcnXU1LF0hl4m/vAIQxubSWWR/sukjv2YYj2O3JRnm79+m2H YY5fYswFFkQ7rrD3N6pqcLDt9T96V1KFWR9Y34C+mdHXnpfyWVDKymgZ6F39t6s+ 5cIvg8/B7VNddZfzZnHWT3wwFFdiQl8KTGG4Sorpoz/zwFRBpL/A+3BK+8zijOWO upkjWRxOkN4pLoo4POAtuVJ/hp8P0vM= =44Wi -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope-CMF] cmf-tests -
This is the summary for test reports received on the cmf-tests list between 2015-03-03 00:00:00 UTC and 2015-03-04 00:00:00 UTC: See the footnotes for test reports of unsuccessful builds. An up-to date view of the builders is also available in our buildbot documentation: http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/buildbots.html#the-nightly-builds Reports received Non-OK results -- ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope-cmf/ for bug reports and feature requests
[Zope] Zope2 - pro/contra
Hello ZOPE community, we're still developing websites using Zope2 + ZMS3 (www.zms-publishing.com) for years now and never ran into any real problems (compared to, let's say, Wordpress, typo3, Drupal etc. which had serious security problems over the years) and our clients are quite happy with ZMS. A few days ago on a barcamp the discussion lead to Zope and the usual comments, i.e. Zope is dead, I would not use that, Too complicated, Too old, Outdated, and so on. My personal opinion is, that Zope2 is still rock-solid and gets the job done. I've never heard of any serious issues compared to the big competitors from the PHP or Java world. I looked into Pyramid and Django for different projects and always came back to Zope2 itself. I did not ask that question for quite some time now as there was no reason. Sure, sometimes we get comments like never heard of it etc., but nothing serious. Still, are there any specific reasons (beside personal favors) not to use Zope2 anymore? Any reason not to use Zope2 + ZODB for new projects? Are other frameworks like flask, Django, pyramid etc. that much better compared to Zope? Best Sebastian ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope2 - pro/contra
Am Mittwoch, 4. März 2015, 11:30:30 schrieb Sebastian Tänzer: A few days ago on a barcamp the discussion lead to Zope and the usual comments, i.e. Zope is dead, I would not use that, Too complicated, Too old, Outdated, and so on. This is stuff typically spreaden by guys who don't know what Zope really is nor was and has (from my view) two reasons: 1.) The Zope project byself made very bad decisions within their communication strategy in the past - i.e. announcing a Zope3 (for which many was waiting for) which did never come out and shoulnt be backward compatible to Zope2. 2.) Several PHP projects (like Typo3 and WP) are miscalled as CMS widely and (in the case of Typo3) from the maintainers byself. PHP is available on many low cost hosting packages available on the market (even if they are often to small for a Typo3 site with some more load then a few visitors by day on a few subpages. So in the view of many web agents and even developers anything apart from PHP is'nt existing or is something excotically and/or for enterprise level. We had often to deal with any kind of PHP problems in the past where customers decided to use any PHP crap for their business applications. Running PHP on a pro level is not easier then managing Zope installations. 3.) Zope documentation was partly very bad - at least when it comes to installation and system administration, updating etc.pp. ZMS had some similiar problems which held it back from a very wide presence - i.e. the long time not public available documentation and the hardly specialized focus onto medicine in the communication. just my two cents, Niels. -- --- Niels Dettenbach Syndicat IT Internet http://www.syndicat.com PGP: https://syndicat.com/pub_key.asc --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope2 - pro/contra
That's a good question: I'm not a Zope developer but I've been hosting several Plone sites (including my own) for about 5 years now; and I am *extremely* happy with the stability and security Zope+Plone offers. Despite a couple of attempts by me, I never could start developing with Zope. For me, as I have a solid Java background, the complexity was, as you can clearly see why, not a problem :-) The main stopper for me was that there were hardly any documents out there! They were mostly either old or incomplete or didn't exist at all. PS: Please correct if things have changed...the last time I tried Zope development was more than 2 years ago. -- Bahman Movaqar http://BahmanM.com - https://twitter.com/bahman__m https://github.com/bahmanm - https://gist.github.com/bahmanm PGP Key ID: 0x6AB5BD68 (keyserver2.pgp.com) On 03/04/2015 02:00 PM, Sebastian Tänzer wrote: Hello ZOPE community, we're still developing websites using Zope2 + ZMS3 (www.zms-publishing.com) for years now and never ran into any real problems (compared to, let's say, Wordpress, typo3, Drupal etc. which had serious security problems over the years) and our clients are quite happy with ZMS. A few days ago on a barcamp the discussion lead to Zope and the usual comments, i.e. Zope is dead, I would not use that, Too complicated, Too old, Outdated, and so on. My personal opinion is, that Zope2 is still rock-solid and gets the job done. I've never heard of any serious issues compared to the big competitors from the PHP or Java world. I looked into Pyramid and Django for different projects and always came back to Zope2 itself. I did not ask that question for quite some time now as there was no reason. Sure, sometimes we get comments like never heard of it etc., but nothing serious. Still, are there any specific reasons (beside personal favors) not to use Zope2 anymore? Any reason not to use Zope2 + ZODB for new projects? Are other frameworks like flask, Django, pyramid etc. that much better compared to Zope? Best Sebastian ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope2 - pro/contra
Hello Sebastian, I guess the main problem is the future maintenance of Zope. For instance, it is pretty sure that nobody will invest the time needed to move it Python 3, and at some point it will probably be a problem. Eric On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Sebastian Tänzer s...@taenzer.me wrote: Hello ZOPE community, we're still developing websites using Zope2 + ZMS3 (www.zms-publishing.com) for years now and never ran into any real problems (compared to, let's say, Wordpress, typo3, Drupal etc. which had serious security problems over the years) and our clients are quite happy with ZMS. A few days ago on a barcamp the discussion lead to Zope and the usual comments, i.e. Zope is dead, I would not use that, Too complicated, Too old, Outdated, and so on. My personal opinion is, that Zope2 is still rock-solid and gets the job done. I've never heard of any serious issues compared to the big competitors from the PHP or Java world. I looked into Pyramid and Django for different projects and always came back to Zope2 itself. I did not ask that question for quite some time now as there was no reason. Sure, sometimes we get comments like never heard of it etc., but nothing serious. Still, are there any specific reasons (beside personal favors) not to use Zope2 anymore? Any reason not to use Zope2 + ZODB for new projects? Are other frameworks like flask, Django, pyramid etc. that much better compared to Zope? Best Sebastian ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope2 - pro/contra
Am Mittwoch, 4. März 2015, 13:42:13 schrieb Eric Bréhault: For instance, it is pretty sure that nobody will invest the time needed to move it Python 3, and at some point it will probably be a problem. This is just another such story which leads to non-interest of Users into Zope and let me compare to Perl5, where many peoples was looking forward to Perl6 which was targeted to publish somewhere 15 years ago and perl5 is still available and maintained today. Where a demand is - there is a solution and Zope2 / 4 is not the only larger project still demand on python 2 and btw: afaik at least a part of the components / modules used in (or provided by) the Zope project today are still ported / running under python3. just my two cents, Niels. -- --- Niels Dettenbach Syndicat IT Internet http://www.syndicat.com PGP: https://syndicat.com/pub_key.asc --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zope2 - pro/contra
Hi, I'm currently maintaining applications using Zope2, Zope3/Bluebream and Pyramid applications (using ZODB). I don't have any problem on any of them, even on the oldest Zope2 applications which are more than 10 years old but always need zero maintenance and are as stable as mountains. But I have to say that Zope2 looks quite old now, and TTW development for example have (from my own point of view) many drawbacks. So for my own needs I wouldn't start a new project using Zope2 but would use Pyramid + ZODB which is a really good stack; Pyramid is well documented and really pleasant to use, and you can reuse many principles that were introduced by Zope, but the framework was cleaned and reduced to the really usefull parts (while many optional ones are available as add-ons packages). Regards, Thierry De : Zope zope-boun...@zope.org de la part de Sebastian Tänzer s...@taenzer.me Envoyé : mercredi 4 mars 2015 11:30 À : zope@zope.org Objet : [Zope] Zope2 - pro/contra Hello ZOPE community, we're still developing websites using Zope2 + ZMS3 (www.zms-publishing.com) for years now and never ran into any real problems (compared to, let's say, Wordpress, typo3, Drupal etc. which had serious security problems over the years) and our clients are quite happy with ZMS. A few days ago on a barcamp the discussion lead to Zope and the usual comments, i.e. Zope is dead, I would not use that, Too complicated, Too old, Outdated, and so on. My personal opinion is, that Zope2 is still rock-solid and gets the job done. I've never heard of any serious issues compared to the big competitors from the PHP or Java world. I looked into Pyramid and Django for different projects and always came back to Zope2 itself. I did not ask that question for quite some time now as there was no reason. Sure, sometimes we get comments like never heard of it etc., but nothing serious. Still, are there any specific reasons (beside personal favors) not to use Zope2 anymore? Any reason not to use Zope2 + ZODB for new projects? Are other frameworks like flask, Django, pyramid etc. that much better compared to Zope? Best Sebastian ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
