[Zope-CMF] Re: What's the story for using Z3 content types as first-class citizens in CMF?
yuppie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The underlying question is whether we want to drop support for TTW > development. I don't want that. So I prefer to keep portal types and > Actions until we have a suitable Z3 replacement. In my own opinion, there are three levels of TTW development: 1. TTW Configuration (e.g. changing the user-visible name of content types, portal settings etc.): Critical - we really can't lose this. 2. TTW Template Customisation (e.g. changing the HTML of a template, or overriding CSS): Critical - this is one of the main reasons why Plone is popular, at least; people find it easy to make simple visual changes and get a lot of flexibility (and some ability to shoot themselves in the foot) in return. Telling these people to learn ZCML, make python modules, register views etc. will likely scare them away. Giving them tools to get what they've done TTW into the filesystem is nice, too. 3. TTW Development (i.e. create complex applications TTW, including the type of python logic that can't easily be put in a page template python: statement, even though you know better): Perhaps unnecessary to support. When you want to build "real" applications, TTW will likely be too limiting anyway. Having ways of making "proper" views and utilities TTW seems like unnecessarily difficult to write, when most people who do this will want to do it on the filesystem anyway. Those are my opinions anyway, based on what I see people, especially newbies, in the Plone world do. > But nevertheless I'd like to use Z3 content types instead of CMF > *content* types. And therefor we should agree on 90% of what has to done. I completely agree - this is the big win. However, one of the things I'd really like to gain from Z3 content types is add forms! That does imply a certain degree of interoperability with Z3 menus, at the very least. Perhaps, as Florent suggested, the migration path is to let the relevant APIs return both ZODB FTIs and "fake" FTIs for ZCML-registered content types, and to let the action tools return Z3 menu-defined actions as well as ZODB-persisted ones. Then we may decide to ultimately drop the old way if the new way covers all the bases, or we may let them co-exist for some time. Martin ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
[Zope-CMF] Re: What's the story for using Z3 content types as first-class citizens in CMF?
Tres Seaver wrote:
Just trying to get an overview - are there any plans or code (CMF 2?)
to make it possible to use Z3 content types as first-class citizens in
CMF? That is, make them available in add menus, make actions/tabs
appear on them, let them use method aliases, make them catalog aware
and so on, without necessarily inheriting from PortalContent.
Alec Mitchell's plone_schemas product lets you use such types in
Plone, though he derives from CMF's PortalContent (as I recall) and
manually constructs an FTI.
AFAICS Five content has to inherit from PortalContent and to implement a
subset of IDublinCore ('Title', 'Description' and 'Type').
At least one FTI is necessary to define a portal type on top of the
content type.
We might add a new TypeInformation derivative, which knows about the
addable Z3 content.
Or have portal_types.listTypeInfo return also non-persistent TI objects
corresponding to those registered through ZCML.
Florent
--
Florent Guillaume, Nuxeo (Paris, France) Director of R&D
+33 1 40 33 71 59 http://nuxeo.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[Zope-CMF] Re: What's the story for using Z3 content types as first-class citizens in CMF?
Hi Chris! Chris Withers wrote: Martin Aspeli wrote: Alec Mitchell's plone_schemas product lets you use such types in Plone, though he derives from CMF's PortalContent (as I recall) and manually constructs an FTI. FWIW, I think this is an exceptionally bad idea. I'd much prefer to see CMF grow a way to use Z3 content types without having to drag them down into the mire that is portal_types and the actions system :-S Portal types and Actions are fundamental elements of the CMF and not the worst parts of it. GenericSetup makes it much easier now to maintain their settings. Maybe some kind of parallel thing where the UI-level stuff amalgamates both the CMF and Z3 ways of doing things (portal_types/content types and actions/menus) with the aim being eventually to drop the old CMF stuff? The underlying question is whether we want to drop support for TTW development. I don't want that. So I prefer to keep portal types and Actions until we have a suitable Z3 replacement. But nevertheless I'd like to use Z3 content types instead of CMF *content* types. And therefor we should agree on 90% of what has to done. Cheers, Yuppie ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
[Zope-CMF] Re: What's the story for using Z3 content types as first-class citizens in CMF?
Chris Withers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Martin Aspeli wrote: > > Alec Mitchell's plone_schemas product lets you use such types in Plone, > > though he derives from CMF's PortalContent (as I recall) and manually > > constructs an FTI. > > FWIW, I think this is an exceptionally bad idea. > I'd much prefer to see CMF grow a way to use Z3 content types without > having to drag them down into the mire that is portal_types and the > actions system :-S > > Maybe some kind of parallel thing where the UI-level stuff amalgamates > both the CMF and Z3 ways of doing things (portal_types/content types and > actions/menus) with the aim being eventually to drop the old CMF stuff? Which was sort of the point of my post, if you recall... to make Z3 contet types first-class citizens in a CMF world. Now, there are some abstract things that CMF may want to incorporate as interfaces, such as abstract metdata about a type (display name, actions, aliases), catalog awareness (via events) etc. I imagine these should be described as interfaces and/or ZCML statements, at which point we can start to use adapters to make Z3 content types work in a CMF context. So far, I guess, the discussion has shown that we need: - An abstracted, events-driven alternative to CMFCatalogAware - An alternative to the portal_types/FTI mechanism that works in ZCML and/or through some generic interface with appropriate adapters - A way of getting ZCML-defined browser menus such as the add menu into CMF's add menu, and probably have similar mechanisms for actions in various categories. Of couse, as Alec points out, you need a whole bunch of other Zope 2 stuff as well, such as RoleManager etc. Perhaps having a content type that derives from ProtalType in a CMF world isn't so much worse than having one derive from Persistent in a pure Z3 world; you simply have to keep writing to interfaces and use adapters for additional logic and functionality. Martin ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
[Zope-CMF] CMF Collector: Open Issues
The following supporters have open issues assigned to them in this collector (http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF). Assigned and Open mhammond - "Windows DevelopmentMode penalty in CMFCore.DirectoryView", [Accepted] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/366 Pending / Deferred Issues - "Wrong cache association for FSObject", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/255 - "CMFSetup: Windows exports contain CR/LF, LF and even CR newlines", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/266 - "FSPropertiesObject.py cannot handle multiline input for lines, text attributes", [Deferred] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/271 - "Can't invalidate skin items in a RAMCacheManager", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/343 - "CMFSetup: Workflow Tool export fails with workflows which have scripts", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/373 - "CMFCore.Skinnable.SkinnableObjectManager can merge skin data", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/375 - "Proxy Roles does't work for a Script using portal_catalog.searchResults", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/380 - "WorkflowAction deprecated warning should not printed for WorkflowMethod", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/388 - "workflow notify success should be after reindex", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/389 - "Implicitly acquiring allow_discussion in isDiscussionAllowedFor", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/398 - "Legal chars not permitted in email addresses", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/401 Pending / Deferred Features - "Favorite.py: queries and anchors in remote_url", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/26 - "DefaultDublinCore should have Creator property", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/61 - "path criteria on Topic should honor VHM", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/111 - "Document.py: universal newlines", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/174 - "Add condition for transition's action like other action", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/207 - "Major action enhancement", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/232 - "portal_type is undefined in initialization code", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/248 - "CMFTopic Does Not Cache", [Deferred] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/295 - "Wishlist: a flag that tags the selected action.", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/301 - "CMFDefault should make use of allowCreate()", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/340 - "Nested Skins", [Deferred] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/377 - "CatalogVariableProvider code + tests", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/378 - "manage_doCustomize() : minor additions", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/382 - "First Day of Week", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/400 - "FSDTML Method: 304 support", [Pending] http://www.zope.org/Collectors/CMF/402 ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
Re: [Zope-CMF] What's the story for using Z3 content types as first-class citizens in CMF?
Martin Aspeli wrote: Alec Mitchell's plone_schemas product lets you use such types in Plone, though he derives from CMF's PortalContent (as I recall) and manually constructs an FTI. FWIW, I think this is an exceptionally bad idea. I'd much prefer to see CMF grow a way to use Z3 content types without having to drag them down into the mire that is portal_types and the actions system :-S Maybe some kind of parallel thing where the UI-level stuff amalgamates both the CMF and Z3 ways of doing things (portal_types/content types and actions/menus) with the aim being eventually to drop the old CMF stuff? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
Re: [Zope-CMF] Re: What's the story for using Z3 content types as first-class citizens in CMF?
On 2/13/06, Tres Seaver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We might add a new TypeInformation derivative, which knows about the > addable Z3 content. My tests last year indicated that this was not enough, if I remember correctly. The FTI stuff might need a bit if refactoing as well, although I don't remember the details. I should write things like that up :-/ -- Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo http://www.nuxeo.com/ CPS Content Management http://www.cps-project.org/ ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@lists.zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See http://collector.zope.org/CMF for bug reports and feature requests
