RE: [Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
Well, Zope moved onwards from PAS to PAU and I think Plone should too, because: It seems like just yesterday that PAS offered the promise of being the nice clean way forward for authentication, and even offered a path to Zope3. I've been subscribed to zope-dev since then, but somehow the anointing of PUA escaped my attention. It seems like plenty of people in these -dev communities aren't aware the world has shifted again under them, so I pity the poor soul who attempts to use/install/configure this software. I am writing a PlonePAS plugin, that makes the world of PAU available to Plone Hopefully you will finish by the time PAU is considered ugly/unpythonic/whatever enough to replace wink/sigh The sands constantly shifting under our feet sounds like a much bigger problem than whatever was wrong with PAS, or whatever will be decided is wrong with PUA (and repeat ad-nauseam for the variety of successors.) Mark ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
--On 11. Juli 2008 18:04:16 -0700 Florian Friesdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:56:19PM +0200, Wichert Akkerman wrote: Previously Florian Friesdorf wrote: Hi *, within the scope of google summer of code I am integrating zope 3's PAU with Plone's PAS and further enable (non-AT) content objects as source for users and groups. All functionality is developed in pure zope3, the plone integration is happening in a separate packages. All documents describing the project, as well as links to the code can be found here: https://chaoflow.net/projects/gsoc2008/z3membrane-ldap The one thing I am missing is: why? Well, Zope moved onwards from PAS to PAU and I think Plone should too, because: - PAU is way more pythonic and cleaner than PAS/PlonePAS, it is easier to write stuff for PAU; More pythonic or not...writing a PAS plugin is fairly easy and trivial. We have to maintain APIs that we were using for a long time for the sake of backward compatibility (for the sake of plone users and the sake of plone PAS developers). I want API stability. I don't want to change my code just because someone means that a layer would be nice. We already have enough various spots in side Plone where you have at least two choice for implementing things with different technologies..please not yet another such spot. Andreas - we should use as much as possible of Zope3 and avoid custom solutions, increasing the mutual benefit of all Zope3-based projects. pgp78NTSmm6w9.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3 on Python 2.5, Zope 3 releases
Hey, On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 11:19 PM, Stephan Richter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Friday 04 July 2008, Chris Withers wrote: Apparently, it's all good to go, even RestrictedPython. The thing stopping me is that no-one seems willing and able (in that combination, I'm willing but don't have the right c-compiler) to build Windows binaries and get them up on PyPI. Doing Windows binaries is so easy these days, why are you not creating them? Chris wants to do them, he just wants some documentation on how to get started, I suspect. Regards, Martijn ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
On Jul 12, 2008, at 09:33 , Mark Hammond wrote: Well, Zope moved onwards from PAS to PAU and I think Plone should too, because: It seems like just yesterday that PAS offered the promise of being the nice clean way forward for authentication, and even offered a path to Zope3. I've been subscribed to zope-dev since then, but somehow the anointing of PUA escaped my attention. It has not been anointed. Two people (the OP and his GSOC mentor) have made a (IMHO misguided) decision. That's all. jens ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
On Jul 12, 2008, at 03:04 , Florian Friesdorf wrote: On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:56:19PM +0200, Wichert Akkerman wrote: The one thing I am missing is: why? Well, Zope moved onwards from PAS to PAU Huh? Zope 2 uses PAS. The Zope 3 folks have attempted to come up with a similar solution, but it's lagging in functionality and finish. Just because Zope 3 sprouts a similar technology to what Zope 2 is using does not automatically imply Zope moves onwards to X. And it hasn't. - we should use as much as possible of Zope3 and avoid custom solutions, increasing the mutual benefit of all Zope3-based projects. I call BS here. PAS is not a custom solution, it's much more of a standard than PAU is. The question remains, why?. You're reinventing wheels for Zope 2 that do not need to be reinvented. One day when PAU has indeed surpassed PAS in terms of functionality and plugins then it may make sense. But not now. jens ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Zope 3 on Python 2.5, Zope 3 releases
El sáb, 05-07-2008 a las 14:26 -0700, Stephan Richter escribió: On Thursday 26 June 2008, Martijn Faassen wrote: I'm curious about the plans of Zope 3 on Python 2.5. * Are people using Zope 3 with Python 2.5 already? What are your experiences? Yes, works flawlessly. The problems in zope.security and zope.proxy that I recently found (and fixed) exist for Python 2.4 as well. Has anybody used this on a 64 bits architecture? I keep getting MemoryError exceptions using Python 2.5 and Zope 3. I don't get those with Python 2.4 and Zope 3. I can attach a traceback if that can help. Lorenzo ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Zope Tests: 5 OK
Summary of messages to the zope-tests list. Period Fri Jul 11 11:00:00 2008 UTC to Sat Jul 12 11:00:00 2008 UTC. There were 5 messages: 5 from Zope Tests. Tests passed OK --- Subject: OK : Zope-2.8 Python-2.3.6 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Fri Jul 11 20:59:49 EDT 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-July/009840.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.9 Python-2.4.4 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Fri Jul 11 21:01:19 EDT 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-July/009841.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.4 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Fri Jul 11 21:02:49 EDT 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-July/009842.html Subject: OK : Zope-2.11 Python-2.4.4 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Fri Jul 11 21:04:20 EDT 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-July/009843.html Subject: OK : Zope-trunk Python-2.4.4 : Linux From: Zope Tests Date: Fri Jul 11 21:05:50 EDT 2008 URL: http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2008-July/009844.html ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
Mark Hammond wrote: Well, Zope moved onwards from PAS to PAU and I think Plone should too, because: It seems like just yesterday that PAS offered the promise of being the nice clean way forward for authentication, and even offered a path to Zope3. I've been subscribed to zope-dev since then, but somehow the anointing of PUA escaped my attention. I think you've misunderstood slightly here ... PAS was and is a Zope 2 user folder implementation. It pre-dates Zope 3 (at least as we know it now). PAU is a Zope 3 authentication infrastructure. I suspect it's inspired by PAS, but it isn't PAS 2.0, or an anointed successor to PAS. I find it interesting that Florian is planning to make it possible to use PAU utilities in PAS. I'm somewhat less convinced that it would be difficult to make membrane AT-independent. There isn't much AT specific stuff in membrane, as far as I can recall. I can't make a judgement as to whether PAU could bring additional benefits, though. Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
Jens Vagelpohl wrote: I call BS here. PAS is not a custom solution, it's much more of a standard than PAU is. The question remains, why?. You're reinventing wheels for Zope 2 that do not need to be reinvented. One day when PAU has indeed surpassed PAS in terms of functionality and plugins then it may make sense. But not now. I think it's worth displaying some sensitivity to the context of Google Summer of Code here. I too worry that PAULA may throw the baby (PAS) out with the bathwater. However, GSoC is an excellent incubator of RD, and has secondary goals such as bringing more people into the community and engaging with students so that they become the future contributors of our projects. Shooing them down in flames is not going to help. I wish that some of these discussions had been had in the open so that more people could weigh in. However, most people who aren't used to the open source way (and plenty who are, even) find it difficult to address a whole community on a public mailing list and understand the nuances of the responses. That very thing is part of the learning curve that GSoC seeks to address. On balance, I think it's great that Florian is exploring new territory here. PAULA may or may become a part of Zope and/or Plone in the future. It may be that we use bits of it and let other bits evolve separately. It may be that it dies, but at least then we have a clear idea about what PAU is and what benefits it can bring. The notion of having a bridge component certainly sounds sensible to me. So, please, let's not be too harsh until we've seen the final product and given it a fair chance. Cheers, Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
may or may become a part of Zope and/or Plone in the future. Well put Martin. ;) -- Sidnei da Silva Enfold Systems http://enfoldsystems.com Fax +1 832 201 8856 Office +1 713 942 2377 Ext 214 ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
Sidnei da Silva wrote: may or may become a part of Zope and/or Plone in the future. Well put Martin. ;) Hah, obviously I meant may or may not. :) Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Mark Hammond wrote: Well, Zope moved onwards from PAS to PAU I doubt that seriously: I would venture that there are two orders of magnitude more users of PAS than PAU in production deployments. PAU was an attempt to port the PAS to a component-centric implementation, but it lost at least a couple of key features along the way: most notably, the ZCA provides no way to control the ordering of the invocation of the plugins. and I think Plone should too, - -1. I can see no benefit, except the myth (in the technical, anthropological sense) that a Z3-based rewrite of any arbitrary component must be superior to the thing it rewrites. because: It seems like just yesterday that PAS offered the promise of being the nice clean way forward for authentication, and even offered a path to Zope3. I've been subscribed to zope-dev since then, but somehow the anointing of PUA escaped my attention. It seems like plenty of people in these -dev communities aren't aware the world has shifted again under them, so I pity the poor soul who attempts to use/install/configure this software. PlonePAS still has some rough edges, as do some of the available plugins, but the underlying PAS is still a pretty nice way to do local user folders. I am writing a PlonePAS plugin, that makes the world of PAU available to Plone Hopefully you will finish by the time PAU is considered ugly/unpythonic/whatever enough to replace wink/sigh The sands constantly shifting under our feet sounds like a much bigger problem than whatever was wrong with PAS, or whatever will be decided is wrong with PUA (and repeat ad-nauseam for the variety of successors.) Heh, you sound almost as much like an old fart as I do. :) Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIePdV+gerLs4ltQ4RAqUyAJ0VVg2n2xydtNwlMR2WvF8JAJKoXQCfa60M Mrsp26qNnmHxOkjsG90SaJ8= =e2pa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
I think you've misunderstood slightly here ... PAS was and is a Zope 2 user folder implementation. It pre-dates Zope 3 (at least as we know it now). I was referring to the thread at http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-pas/2004-September/86.html, entitled [Zope-PAS] Challengers (and Zope 3) - but I do admit I haven't been keeping a close eye on Zope3 since then so things may have changed (but the claim PAS predates Zope 3 seems suspect in the context of that thread, unless Zope 3 has changed since then in a way it no longer means Zope 3 ;) Cheers, Mark ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: [Plone-developers] PAULA: bringing Zope 3's authentication to Plone and beyond
Mark Hammond wrote: I think you've misunderstood slightly here ... PAS was and is a Zope 2 user folder implementation. It pre-dates Zope 3 (at least as we know it now). I was referring to the thread at http://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-pas/2004-September/86.html, entitled [Zope-PAS] Challengers (and Zope 3) - but I do admit I haven't been keeping a close eye on Zope3 since then so things may have changed (but the claim PAS predates Zope 3 seems suspect in the context of that thread, unless Zope 3 has changed since then in a way it no longer means Zope 3 ;) Sorry, I may've gotten my history mixed up a little here, but in any case, I think the point remains: no-one's said (nor not said) that PAS is to be deprecated in favour of PAU in a Zope 2/CMF/Plone context at least. So I don't think you missed that. ;-) Martin -- Author of `Professional Plone Development`, a book for developers who want to work with Plone. See http://martinaspeli.net/plone-book ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
