[Zope-dev] Github repo request: zope.tal, zope.testrunner
Could someone with the magic admin bit please create Github repositories for zope.tal and zope.testrunner? Thanks, Marius Gedminas -- http://pov.lt/ -- Zope 3/BlueBream consulting and development signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Github repo request: zope.tal, zope.testrunner
On Feb 11, 2013, at 11:53 , Marius Gedminas mar...@gedmin.as wrote: Could someone with the magic admin bit please create Github repositories for zope.tal and zope.testrunner? Done. jens ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Examples of ZODB.event
Hello, I would like to build a config repository on the ZODB for an appliance where many processes would boot and talk to at boot to load their configuration. Some processes might modify or add new conf, and some different component should take this change of configuration into account. Is there any ZODB.event example app that I could read from? ZODB.event is a little too low level for me. I wish the subscribers would get a notification message like: - property modified. Ex: '(VideoComponent', 'server_port') - original value, new value. Ex: '8080', '1234' Thanks, bye ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Examples of ZODB.event
On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Jean-Daniel jeandaniel.bro...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I would like to build a config repository on the ZODB for an appliance where many processes would boot and talk to at boot to load their configuration. Some processes might modify or add new conf, and some different component should take this change of configuration into account. Is there any ZODB.event example app that I could read from? ZODB.event is a little too low level for me. I wish the subscribers would get a notification message like: - property modified. Ex: '(VideoComponent', 'server_port') - original value, new value. Ex: '8080', '1234' This isn't a feature in ZODB yet. Sorry. When there is such a feature, it will be lower-level than that. You'll be able to find out that an object changed, but not what part of the object changed. Jim -- Jim Fulton http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton Jerky is better than bacon! http://zo.pe/Kqm ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Porting zope.tal to Python 3
I don't plan to write about every package I port, but there were some lessons learned from zope.tal that I thought I should mention. - Running 2to3 on your sources is a good way to identify places that need changing, but you'll have to revert most of the actual changes to keep it compatible with Python 2. I recently learned about a tool called python-modernize[1] that is basically 2to3 except it rewrites into a common Python 2 3 subset. I haven't checked it out yet, but it sounds promising [1] http://pypi.python.org/pypi/modernize - StringIO: while Python-3-style io.StringIO() and io.BytesIO() classes exist in Python 2.6+, you can't easily use either them as a replacement for StringIO.StringIO or cStringIO.StringIO. Why? Because people tend to mix native (ASCII-only) string literals with Unicode objects, and that's a no-no in Python 3 land. I didn't like the idea of importing unicode_literals from the __future__, or of dropping u'' prefixes everywhere. Partially because I'm not sure that would be enough -- str objects might make it all the way though the public API of zope.tal and suddenly code that used to work on Python 2 just fine would now explode. So I went with a conditional import -- from cStringIO import StringIO on Python 2 and from io import StringIO on Python 3. - tox/detox make it very easy to add just one more supported Python version -- edit tox.ini, run detox, fix tests. This works with PyPy too, not just Python 3.x! Marius Gedminas -- http://pov.lt/ -- Zope 3/BlueBream consulting and development signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Lessons from zope.testrunner
I didn't port zope.testrunner to Python 3, but I did make its tests pass (eventually) on 3.2 and 3.3. - If python setup.py test passes, and tox -e py27 passes, and detox indicates that all Python versions also pass all tests --- that might just mean you have a bug in your setup.py that doesn't do sys.exit(1) in case of failures. Oops. - Python guarantees that random.random() will return the same sequence of floats if you initialize the RNG with the same seed. This guarantee doesn't extend to methods like random.shuffle()! Workaround: random.shuffle(a_list, random.random) Note: I'm talking about numeric seeds here. If you use strings as seeds, you'll also have to deal with the different hashing methods: Python 2.x uses hash(your_string), which is already non-portable between 32-bit and 64-bit platforms, while Python 3.2+ uses SHA-512, unless you do random.seed(your_seed, version=1). Anyway, don't use strings as seeds (because 32-/64-bit nonportability of string hashes). Marius Gedminas -- http://pov.lt/ -- Zope 3/BlueBream consulting and development signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Porting zope.tal to Python 3
On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 7:44 PM, Marius Gedminas mar...@gedmin.as wrote: - Running 2to3 on your sources is a good way to identify places that need changing, but you'll have to revert most of the actual changes to keep it compatible with Python 2. I've find the easiest way to keep compatibility to port to Python 3 first, and then reintroduce compatibility with first Python 2.7, and then 2.6. Python-modernize might change that. //Lennart ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] zope.security on github?
Hi everyone, I was just about to start porting zope.security using the SVN version, when I noticed it is already on Github and Tres has even worked on it today. So 2 things: 1. Can we delete the contents of zope.security on svn.zope.org? 2. Can we enable checkin messages for all moved projects? (I have not seen any checkin messages from Tres, for example.) Regards, Stephan -- Entrepreneur and Software Geek Google me. Zope Stephan Richter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope.security on github?
On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:14 PM, Stephan Richter stephan.rich...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I was just about to start porting zope.security using the SVN version, when I noticed it is already on Github and Tres has even worked on it today. So 2 things: 1. Can we delete the contents of zope.security on svn.zope.org? Please remove the contents of trunk and add a MOVED_TO_GITHUB file in trunk and in the project root with the git repo url. When that's done, I'll make the project read only. Jim -- Jim Fulton http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton Jerky is better than bacon! http://zo.pe/Kqm ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope.security on github?
On Monday, February 11, 2013 03:19:54 PM Jim Fulton wrote: 1. Can we delete the contents of zope.security on svn.zope.org? Please remove the contents of trunk and add a MOVED_TO_GITHUB file in trunk and in the project root with the git repo url. When that's done, I'll make the project read only. It seems to be readonly already, so I cannot remove the files. Regards, Stephan -- Entrepreneur and Software Geek Google me. Zope Stephan Richter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope.security on github?
On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:29 PM, Stephan Richter stephan.rich...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, February 11, 2013 03:19:54 PM Jim Fulton wrote: 1. Can we delete the contents of zope.security on svn.zope.org? Please remove the contents of trunk and add a MOVED_TO_GITHUB file in trunk and in the project root with the git repo url. When that's done, I'll make the project read only. It seems to be readonly already, so I cannot remove the files. Sorry. Fixed. Can you try again please? Jim -- Jim Fulton http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton Jerky is better than bacon! http://zo.pe/Kqm ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope.security on github?
On Monday, February 11, 2013 03:37:17 PM Jim Fulton wrote: It seems to be readonly already, so I cannot remove the files. Sorry. Fixed. Can you try again please? All done. Regards, Stephan -- Entrepreneur and Software Geek Google me. Zope Stephan Richter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope.security on github?
On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Stephan Richter stephan.rich...@gmail.com wrote: On Monday, February 11, 2013 03:37:17 PM Jim Fulton wrote: It seems to be readonly already, so I cannot remove the files. Sorry. Fixed. Can you try again please? All done. Thanks. Back to read only. Jim -- Jim Fulton http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton Jerky is better than bacon! http://zo.pe/Kqm ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] github repositories needed
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/11/2013 03:44 PM, Stephan Richter wrote: Hi everyone, In my effort to port packages I would also like to move them to github. I have ported or are in the process of porting the following packages and would like to get Github repositories for them: - z3c.datagenerator - zope.lifecycleevent - zope.filerepresentation - zope.annotation - zope.i18n - zope.container - zope.publisher - zope.traversing - zope.site Note: My goal is to port zope.site this week and Marius is working on zope.pagetemplate. Empty repositories created: the 'Developers' group should have push access. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlEZW08ACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ7t6QCfRC+AcflmpPuYgNytnMkrEX+8 prkAni8LLhVtkNVlnNgSzE1ARk+KZyLf =eT1L -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope.security
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/11/2013 03:36 PM, Stephan Richter wrote: Hi Tres (and everyone else reading along), as you are probably aware, zope.security is a package that blocks a lot of other packages from being ported. I just checked out the coverage on Github and it looks like you are making good progress. The biggest issue I see with zope.security is its dependency on RestrictedPython, because I think that will take a long time to port correctly. However, most of zope.security is very much usable and used without zope.security.untrustedpython. I propose to split zope.security.untrustedpython into a separate package called zope.untrustedpython, so that a port of zope.security to Python 3 can move forward. (Note: I am signing up for the work.) +1 for splitting out the RP dependency. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlEZgBwACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ6P0ACfXXfQJvd78p3+4mk+tEDFaA0a usoAoMNLK7YqxrU089DTQAKDq/HoNZ22 =0e3S -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] zope-tests - FAILED: 7, OK: 16
This is the summary for test reports received on the zope-tests list between 2013-02-10 00:00:00 UTC and 2013-02-11 00:00:00 UTC: See the footnotes for test reports of unsuccessful builds. An up-to date view of the builders is also available in our buildbot documentation: http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/buildbots.html#the-nightly-builds Reports received Successful - zopetoolkit_trunk - Build # 169 Successful - zopetoolkit_trunk_app - Build # 152 Zope-2.10 Python-2.4.6 : Linux Zope-2.11 Python-2.4.6 : Linux Zope-2.12 Python-2.6.8 : Linux Zope-2.13 Python-2.6.8 : Linux Zope-2.13 Python-2.7.3 : Linux Zope-trunk Python-2.6.8 : Linux Zope-trunk Python-2.7.3 : Linux winbot / ZODB_dev py_265_win32 winbot / ZODB_dev py_265_win64 winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win32 winbot / ZODB_dev py_270_win64 [1]winbot / zope.security_py_265_32 [2]winbot / zope.testrunner_py_265_32 winbot / ztk_10 py_254_win32 winbot / ztk_10 py_265_win32 winbot / ztk_10 py_265_win64 [3]winbot / ztk_11 py_254_win32 [4]winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win32 [5]winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win64 [6]winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win32 [7]winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win64 Non-OK results -- [1]FAILED winbot / zope.security_py_265_32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072239.html [2]FAILED winbot / zope.testrunner_py_265_32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072240.html [3]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_254_win32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072230.html [4]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072232.html [5]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win64 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072233.html [6]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072231.html [7]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win64 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072234.html ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope.security
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On 02/11/2013 09:16 PM, Stephan Richter wrote: On Monday, February 11, 2013 06:34:52 PM Tres Seaver wrote: I propose to split zope.security.untrustedpython into a separate package called zope.untrustedpython, so that a port of zope.security to Python 3 can move forward. (Note: I am signing up for the work.) +1 for splitting out the RP dependency. Okay, if you create a zope.untrustedpython project on Github, I will get to it tomorrow or tonight. 'zope.untrustedpython' repository created. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 tsea...@palladion.com Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/ iEYEARECAAYFAlEZvDsACgkQ+gerLs4ltQ6G2ACg2QA1O903eN8JXtNTR1qoiLkw 5FEAoLQAmAbWaDcCtICusy82eaBYUQcX =uNeM -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Examples of ZODB.event
Ok thanks, I can implement that in the controler code wrapping the ZODB. The Model-View-Controller On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Jean-Daniel jeandaniel.bro...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I would like to build a config repository on the ZODB for an appliance where many processes would boot and talk to at boot to load their configuration. Some processes might modify or add new conf, and some different component should take this change of configuration into account. Is there any ZODB.event example app that I could read from? ZODB.event is a little too low level for me. I wish the subscribers would get a notification message like: - property modified. Ex: '(VideoComponent', 'server_port') - original value, new value. Ex: '8080', '1234' This isn't a feature in ZODB yet. Sorry. When there is such a feature, it will be lower-level than that. You'll be able to find out that an object changed, but not what part of the object changed. Jim -- Jim Fulton http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton Jerky is better than bacon! http://zo.pe/Kqm ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] Examples of ZODB.event
Ok thanks, I can implement that in the controller code wrapping the ZODB. The Model-View-Controller says the model can update the views. I find it hard actually find a model which really has the the capability to notify the views directly. What we usually get, unlike the diagram from Wikipedia, is that the views only talk to the controller, which only talks to the model. Wikipedia calls this variant the passive MVC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model%E2%80%93view%E2%80%93controller Regards, On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 7:38 AM, Jean-Daniel jeandaniel.bro...@gmail.comwrote: Ok thanks, I can implement that in the controler code wrapping the ZODB. The Model-View-Controller On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 6:21 PM, Jim Fulton j...@zope.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 11, 2013 at 11:45 AM, Jean-Daniel jeandaniel.bro...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I would like to build a config repository on the ZODB for an appliance where many processes would boot and talk to at boot to load their configuration. Some processes might modify or add new conf, and some different component should take this change of configuration into account. Is there any ZODB.event example app that I could read from? ZODB.event is a little too low level for me. I wish the subscribers would get a notification message like: - property modified. Ex: '(VideoComponent', 'server_port') - original value, new value. Ex: '8080', '1234' This isn't a feature in ZODB yet. Sorry. When there is such a feature, it will be lower-level than that. You'll be able to find out that an object changed, but not what part of the object changed. Jim -- Jim Fulton http://www.linkedin.com/in/jimfulton Jerky is better than bacon! http://zo.pe/Kqm ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] zope-tests - FAILED: 7, OK: 16
On Tue, Feb 12, 2013 at 01:00:02AM +, Zope tests summarizer wrote: Non-OK results -- [1]FAILED winbot / zope.security_py_265_32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072239.html Bootstrap failed: While: Initializing. Error: Couldn't open c:\buildslave\zope.security\build\buildout.cfg program finished with exit code 0 because zope.security lives on Github now. Fixed in zope.wineggbuilder r129311. Incidentally, why does bootstrap exit with 0 when it fails in winbot? I tried to reproduce that with wget http://downloads.buildout.org/1/bootstrap.py python bootstrap.py and wget http://downloads.buildout.org/2/bootstrap.py python bootstrap.py in an empty directory, and both modern bootstraps returned exit code 1. [2]FAILED winbot / zope.testrunner_py_265_32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072240.html This was testing r129308 in svn, which has only a single MOVED_TO_GITHUB file. I've updated zope.wineggbuilder in r129305 to tell it to look for zope.testrunner on Github. Does zope.wineggbuilder update its configs automatically, or do I need to ping some admins when I make changes like that? [3]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_254_win32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072230.html Another bootstrap failure, this time with AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'location' which is the awkward way an old bootstrap.py script says halp this bootstrap 2.0.0 thing I don't know what do while falling over. I'd update the boostrap, if I could figure out where in svn is the thing called ztk_1_1. Buildbot makes it unreasonably hard to figure this stuff out (this is why I publish the master.cfg of my buildbot at http://zope3.pov.lt/buildbot/. Speaking of which, it's red as a very red thing, but I haven't seen any failure emails! What's going on there?). I'm guessing this might be svn+ssh://svn.zope.org/repos/main/zopetoolkit/branches/1.1 Should be fixed in r129312. [4]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072232.html [5]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_265_win64 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072233.html [6]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win32 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072231.html [7]FAILED winbot / ztk_11 py_270_win64 https://mail.zope.org/pipermail/zope-tests/2013-February/072234.html Haven't checked, assuming the same bootstrap issue. It feels good to have CI. Marius Gedminas -- http://pov.lt/ -- Zope 3/BlueBream consulting and development signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
