Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?
Jeffrey P Shell wrote: But release often is a BITCH for software configuration management. Good for developers, bad for deployers. Why? Chris ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:32:59 -0700 Jeffrey P Shell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 04:22 AM, Chris Withers wrote: Ross J. Reedstrom wrote: It what world do you live, and can I move there? You miss the point ;-) The flurry to get features into a 'stable' release is what I was on about. If you flurry, the release won't be stable. I like the pattern of having stable releases and CVS or nightly builds for people who want the latest and greatest. That way everyone gets to contribute easily and freely and yet we still get truly stable versions. Maybe not to the extent of having seperate 'dev' and 'stable' streams a la Linux, but that's a good feeling in essence. Still, the overarching thing is release early and often. The fewer features in each release, the fewer problems of I need this feature, but that means I also have to accept this one that I don't trust But release often is a BITCH for software configuration management. Good for developers, bad for deployers. Hence the nightly build. Just for developers or early adopters. Not for deployers. -Casey ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?
Ross J. Reedstrom wrote: It what world do you live, and can I move there? You miss the point ;-) The flurry to get features into a 'stable' release is what I was on about. If you flurry, the release won't be stable. I like the pattern of having stable releases and CVS or nightly builds for people who want the latest and greatest. That way everyone gets to contribute easily and freely and yet we still get truly stable versions. Maybe not to the extent of having seperate 'dev' and 'stable' streams a la Linux, but that's a good feeling in essence. Still, the overarching thing is release early and often. The fewer features in each release, the fewer problems of I need this feature, but that means I also have to accept this one that I don't trust cheers, Chris ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?
On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Chris Withers wrote: The flurry to get features into a 'stable' release is what I was on about. If you flurry, the release won't be stable. I like the pattern of having stable releases and CVS or nightly builds for people who want the latest and greatest. That way everyone gets to contribute easily and freely and yet we still get truly stable versions. That's how FreeBSD tries to handle it (except that you do your own nightly builds if you want that). But every time, just before freature freeze time, there is a flurry of commits. Once feature freeze happens, however, there are only bug fixes. Likewise, with Zope my impression is that once the Beta is cut, we are in feature freeze. Now, ZC may not have operated that way in the past *entirely*, but I think we should from now on. A flurry of commits *before* feature freeze seems unaviodable, however. That's what deadlines are for, after all grin. --RDM ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?
On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 04:22 AM, Chris Withers wrote: Ross J. Reedstrom wrote: It what world do you live, and can I move there? You miss the point ;-) The flurry to get features into a 'stable' release is what I was on about. If you flurry, the release won't be stable. I like the pattern of having stable releases and CVS or nightly builds for people who want the latest and greatest. That way everyone gets to contribute easily and freely and yet we still get truly stable versions. Maybe not to the extent of having seperate 'dev' and 'stable' streams a la Linux, but that's a good feeling in essence. Still, the overarching thing is release early and often. The fewer features in each release, the fewer problems of I need this feature, but that means I also have to accept this one that I don't trust But release often is a BITCH for software configuration management. Good for developers, bad for deployers. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
RE: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?
Likewise, with Zope my impression is that once the Beta is cut, we are in feature freeze. Now, ZC may not have operated that way in the past *entirely*, but I think we should from now on. A flurry of commits *before* feature freeze seems unaviodable, however. That's what deadlines are for, after all grin. --RDM That has indeed been the case in my experience. Another aspect of this that might not be apparent if you are not the one who happens to be trying to manage the release process is that there is always a delicate balance between enforcing the letter of the law and making concessions to ensure that being a contributor is a rewarding experience rather than a frustrating one. Some things have to be taken on a case-by-case basis, and I can say with some authority that no matter what you choose, some people will praise you and some people will blast you for it :) Keep in mind, too, that the 2.6 release is really the first release that has had anywhere *near* this level of community contribution, so some rough edges should be expected. There is still plenty for all of us to learn. P.S. - I'm planning to do a little revamp of the dev homepage by the end of this week to simplify a few things and hopefully make it easier to know what's going on, as well as posting the plans for 2.6.1 and much-misunderstood 2.7. Brian Lloyd[EMAIL PROTECTED] V.P. Engineering 540.361.1716 Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?
Chris McDonough wrote: FWIW, the reason that there is a flurry of activity before any release is because people want to see features in a stable release version and by nature (IMHO) programmers are procrastinators. ;-) This doesn't fit with normal open source practice. Why are we starting to operate like this? cheers, Chris ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?
Ross J. Reedstrom wrote: It what world do you live, and can I move there? Every large open source project I've particpated in or kept track of has had this problem - it's _really hard_ to turn down cool new patches just because your supposed to be in feature freeze, trying to get a stable release out. What do _you_ think 'normal open source practice' is? FWIW, see as an example http://developer.kde.org/development-versions/kde-3.0-release-plan.html and/or http://developer.kde.org/development-versions/kde-3.2-features.html Seems to work quite well for them. cheers, oliver ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] 2.6.1 Plan?
Oliver Bleutgen writes: ... What do _you_ think 'normal open source practice' is? FWIW, see as an example http://developer.kde.org/development-versions/kde-3.0-release-plan.html and/or http://developer.kde.org/development-versions/kde-3.2-features.html Seems to work quite well for them. Almost surely, I am unjust towards the KDE developers: I identify the many k* programs with KDE. When I do this, then I have never seen that many bugs in the time before KDE. My X error log is full of KDE and k* program problems. Dieter ___ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
