Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [z3-five] zcml questions
Dieter Maurer wrote: Chris Withers wrote at 2006-9-25 18:44 +0100: ... Can we have a papal edict that zcml that has side effects is a bug? (including the dotted name thing...) Hm: the purpose of zcml is to have side effects (register things, patch classes with marker interfaces, add permissions, ...) Yes, but this shouldn't be done at parse time, only at some later realise step once _all_ zcml has been parsed. cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [z3-five] zcml questions
Chris Withers wrote at 2006-9-25 18:44 +0100: ... Can we have a papal edict that zcml that has side effects is a bug? (including the dotted name thing...) Hm: the purpose of zcml is to have side effects (register things, patch classes with marker interfaces, add permissions, ...) -- Dieter ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [z3-five] zcml questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dieter Maurer wrote: Chris Withers wrote at 2006-9-25 18:44 +0100: ... Can we have a papal edict that zcml that has side effects is a bug? (including the dotted name thing...) Hm: the purpose of zcml is to have side effects (register things, patch classes with marker interfaces, add permissions, ...) But not during *parsing* of the ZCML: parsing is supposed to create a sequence of actions, which, when executed in sequence, make those changes. Because we check some kinds of errors too early (during parsing: in particular, we check the resolvability of dotted names), we force some directives to have early effects. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 202-558-7113 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFFGWuy+gerLs4ltQ4RAjlIAJwK15uUCu6ZRTID+lYnQcsxekQCzQCfbkwI MukYTI07cG07nUAgdVudcTQ= =OU26 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [z3-five] zcml questions
On Sep 26, 2006, at 2:00 PM, Dieter Maurer wrote: Chris Withers wrote at 2006-9-25 18:44 +0100: ... Can we have a papal edict that zcml that has side effects is a bug? (including the dotted name thing...) Hm: the purpose of zcml is to have side effects (register things, patch classes with marker interfaces, add permissions, ...) He means during parsing. There is some agreement that the work done by ZCML should be done during the second stage, after conflicts are resolved. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org Zope Corporationhttp://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [z3-five] zcml questions
Jim Fulton wrote: It would *also* require that we implement the no side-effects during parsing policy (my other favorite dead horse in arguments about ZCML's implementation / usage). Beat away. :) I've been in favor of this for some time. This is definitely a goal. Can we have a papal edict that zcml that has side effects is a bug? (including the dotted name thing...) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: [z3-five] zcml questions
Tres Seaver wrote: How should I do things such that they can do that? I'm just wondering whether you really need the disabling feature. I've wanted it. My major beef with the way we are *using* ZCML now is that we expect package authors to provide policy-laden configuration for their packages (sensible defaults) but provide no means for the admin to reuse that configuration selectively; their only realy choice is to *copy* the configuration and edit it. Yes indeed. I argued *long* ago (after the first ZC-internal Zope3 sprint, I think) that the 'include' directive should be allowed to be complex, with subelements like 'except' or 'only' to pull in specific directives. This sounds a bit heavyweight, how about just a disable thingy: disable path=/some/xpath/here/ (e.g., a 'zcml:id' attribute). It would *also* require that we implement the no side-effects during parsing policy (my other favorite dead horse in arguments about ZCML's implementation / usage). ...yep, my disable idea needs this too! Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
Re: [Zope3-dev] Re: [z3-five] zcml questions
On Sep 25, 2006, at 1:44 PM, Chris Withers wrote: Jim Fulton wrote: It would *also* require that we implement the no side-effects during parsing policy (my other favorite dead horse in arguments about ZCML's implementation / usage). Beat away. :) I've been in favor of this for some time. This is definitely a goal. Can we have a papal edict that zcml that has side effects is a bug? (including the dotted name thing...) No, but I'm definitely in favor of refactoring existing handlers so they do pretty much all of their work in the actions they generate. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org Zope Corporationhttp://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
[Zope3-dev] Re: [z3-five] zcml questions
On Sep 21, 2006, at 9:15 AM, Tres Seaver wrote: I've wanted it. My major beef with the way we are *using* ZCML now is that we expect package authors to provide policy-laden configuration for their packages (sensible defaults) but provide no means for the admin to reuse that configuration selectively; their only realy choice is to *copy* the configuration and edit it. This is mostly true. I'll note that it is straightforward to override things. It isn't straightforward to disable things, especially subscribers. Anyway, I think you raise a good point. I argued *long* ago (after the first ZC-internal Zope3 sprint, I think) that the 'include' directive should be allowed to be complex, with subelements like 'except' or 'only' to pull in specific directives. Such a practice would require either that we have XPath support available, or else that we come up with a way to mark the directives (e.g., a 'zcml:id' attribute). I don't remember this, but I may have been focussed on other things. I definitely think it would be good to have something like this. It would be interesting to see some proposals with examples. It would *also* require that we implement the no side-effects during parsing policy (my other favorite dead horse in arguments about ZCML's implementation / usage). Beat away. :) I've been in favor of this for some time. This is definitely a goal. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Python Powered! CTO (540) 361-1714 http://www.python.org Zope Corporationhttp://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org ___ Zope3-dev mailing list Zope3-dev@zope.org Unsub: http://mail.zope.org/mailman/options/zope3-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com
