RE: Finally v17 PDF-Manuals

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

> link?

Here you go:
http://doc.4d.com

I like red arrows:
https://i.imgur.com/8pms9rd.png

-Tim



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Re: Finally v17 PDF-Manuals

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

link?


> Thank you 4D
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Finally v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech]

Thank you 4D
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech]

Well, there are still no PDF-Manuals.

4D are you listening?



> On 27 Jul 2018, at 11:15 AEST, Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> When can we expect the PDF-version of the manuals for v17?
> 
> HTML-only is not exactable!
> 

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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

Thanks Wayne!
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Wayne Stewart via 4D_Tech]

Sorry that may not have translated:

This is what you need:

ftp://livedoc.4d.com/DOC_4Dv17_fr_en_de_es_fe_ja_pt.zip

html docs

Regards,

Wayne



Regards,

Wayne




On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 at 12:43, Wayne Stewart  wrote:
>
> DOC_4Dv17_fr_en_de_es_fe_ja_pt.zip
>
> Regards,
>
> Wayne
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 at 12:31, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
>>
>> I was just at the 4D site looking for PDF manualsand didn't find them.
>> So I searched here and found this thread.
>>
>> I'm going to be away from the Internet and want to take documentation with
>> me. I expect that I'll have some down time, and figured it might be a nice
>> time to look at recoding some things as collections. (I'm coming from R3
>> where object access is still through the OB SET/OB GET...which make me not
>> use C_OBJECT all that much.)
>>
>> To be clear, I won't have the Internet. At all. So, is there any way to get
>> an off-line version of the V17? I don't see a way to download the HTML
>> versions and don't see any PDF versions. If not, I'll just skip what I was
>> planning and do something else with the time.
>>
>> Thanks!
>> **
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Wayne Stewart via 4D_Tech]

DOC_4Dv17_fr_en_de_es_fe_ja_pt.zip


Regards,

Wayne




On Sat, 11 Aug 2018 at 12:31, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> I was just at the 4D site looking for PDF manualsand didn't find them.
> So I searched here and found this thread.
>
> I'm going to be away from the Internet and want to take documentation with
> me. I expect that I'll have some down time, and figured it might be a nice
> time to look at recoding some things as collections. (I'm coming from R3
> where object access is still through the OB SET/OB GET...which make me not
> use C_OBJECT all that much.)
>
> To be clear, I won't have the Internet. At all. So, is there any way to get
> an off-line version of the V17? I don't see a way to download the HTML
> versions and don't see any PDF versions. If not, I'll just skip what I was
> planning and do something else with the time.
>
> Thanks!
> **
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

I was just at the 4D site looking for PDF manualsand didn't find them.
So I searched here and found this thread.

I'm going to be away from the Internet and want to take documentation with
me. I expect that I'll have some down time, and figured it might be a nice
time to look at recoding some things as collections. (I'm coming from R3
where object access is still through the OB SET/OB GET...which make me not
use C_OBJECT all that much.)

To be clear, I won't have the Internet. At all. So, is there any way to get
an off-line version of the V17? I don't see a way to download the HTML
versions and don't see any PDF versions. If not, I'll just skip what I was
planning and do something else with the time.

Thanks!
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RE: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Steve Makohin via 4D_Tech]

For fans of PDF user manuals, and having to wade through large documents (like 
the 4D Language Guide), I've enjoyed using (free)  PDF-XChange Editor 
(https://www.tracker-software.com/product/pdf-xchange-editor).

Their PDF reader is free, and it's super-fast. The first search you do build 
internal indexes. As long as you keep the document open, subsequent searches 
are even faster. It's way faster compared to Acrobat reader, even on unindexed 
PDFs.

-Steve Makohin
 Water's Edge Software


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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jeremy French via 4D_Tech]

I’d like to see 4D PDF Documentation in the format used for v11’s Upgrade 
manual.

Here’s a link to:
4D v11 SQL Upgrade
http://download.4d.com/Documents/Products_Documentation/LastVersions/Line_11/VIntl/PDF_Format/4D_v11_Upgrade.pdf

I suggest looking at the PDF in a PDF reader — **not** a web browser.

Be sure to use the side panel to assist navigation. The side panel is called:

* "Bookmarks" in Adobe Acrobat.
* "Table of Contents" in Apple Preview

Note how easily you can locate information. 

In particular, take a look at the **real** index.



> A return to the V11 style formatting and fonts would also help. I wish 
> designers would understand it its all about ease of use and
> readability. 


> In the V11 documentation PDF you could ...


> … comprehensive index that can be quickly searched.
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I like having the PDF manuals.
I do not often use them, but when I need them they are indispensable

For v2003 -> v15 I have been using Help viewer (mac) to present the 
html docs.
What I find with this approach is that the internal links are fine, and 
top level index (table of contents) are great but help viewer (nor a 
browser) give me the ability to search.

So I often end up in the 'Alphabetical List of Commands'.
My one 'wish' for the html docs would be a link to the Alphabetical 
List of Commands at all levels of the documentation, not just the top 
index.

Chip


On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 23:36:33 +1000, Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Paul,
> 
>> On 30 Jul 2018, at 17:29 AEST, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I cant understand why 4D havent resolved
>> this. 
> 
> I second this!
> 
> 
>> I also agree about the blog. Its useful but it has fragmented our
>> information sources when we need consolidation.
> 
> I agree again.
> 
> The only BS missing is a Facebook page… 
> 
> Cheers
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for the offer Jorg, I have been working with acrobat since v1 so know
it well. Even managed to get product as a case study on the adobe V4 install
cd ! Its so easy to do thats why I cant understand why 4D havent resolved
this. 

I also agree about the blog. Its useful but it has fragmented our
information sources when we need consolidation.



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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Bob Miller via 4D_Tech]

Re> I demand PDF manuals!

Ditto.  Laurent promised we could have PDF manuals at the Atlanta summit.
He could not see why their production was a problem. That hasn’t happened.

I’ve held out or skipped deploying several versions until PDF documentation
was available, and I’m doing the same for v17.

While I’m at it, I really disagree with the whole “exclusive” blog-doc
methodology of the R-series, too. The blog is great but does NOT replace
the need for PDF release notes for each R release.

-Bob Miller


ll
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech]

Perhaps a useful addition to the HTML docs would be a comprehensive index
that can be quickly searched. Yes, you can search the entire docs, but it
can take quite a while. If all the text was already indexed that would be
much more useful.

On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 at 12:49, UKVetDerm via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> The original very large box of paper manuals with my first version of 4D
> (likely v3), having moved up first from Filemaker and then 4D light/first?
> was the way I got to grips with 4D.
>
> The quality of the documentation for new adopters and so the continuation
> of the platform should not be under-estimated. For me HTML works well when
> you vaguely know what you are doing and need a quick check, but high
> quality PDFs would be great (like those for v6.5 for instance).
>
> Steve
>
> 
>
>
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[UKVetDerm via 4D_Tech]

The original very large box of paper manuals with my first version of 4D 
(likely v3), having moved up first from Filemaker and then 4D light/first? was 
the way I got to grips with 4D.

The quality of the documentation for new adopters and so the continuation of 
the platform should not be under-estimated. For me HTML works well when you 
vaguely know what you are doing and need a quick check, but high quality PDFs 
would be great (like those for v6.5 for instance).

Steve




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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech]

> On 28 Jul 2018, at 20:15 AEST, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> In the new version you cannot do this there is
> no list of commands in the current pdf docs. 


Every time 4D managed to provide a PDF-manual I open it up in Acrobat (Not the 
reader!!) and index it by using steps provided by David Adams (greetings to the 
South Coast :-) ).

If you like I can send you the Language Prefs for v16 for evaluation.

Cheers

Jörg
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech]

My bias towards pdf is possibly because I'm not the primary coder of our
product. Therefore quite often if I am writing code I need to check the
documentation and read the information to make sure understood it correctly.
For example if I was looking to use the command  distinct values.  In the V
11 documentation PDF you could go to the table of contents and look up the
command and the page number. In the new version you cannot do this there is
no list of commands in the current pdf docs. 

The new versions of the documentation be HTML or PDF are simply not as good
as the old ones. The fonts are poor particularly if you are longsighted like
me. 

Navigating the HTML versions is not as good as PDF. The main reason is as
you navigate through the hierarchical list you lose the ability to expand
and collapse the bookmarks. Therefore you are continually having to go back
through the hierarchy to read another command. With the PDF version the
bookmarks are way better than anything in HTML. This improves the
readability.

It is such a simple issue to generate the PDF documentation with decent
fonts I am perplexed as to why this is not been done. 

Paul



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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech]

> On 28 Jul 2018, at 09:39 AEST, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Sorry that I comment on your thread. I didn’t see the Jorg only sign.


You’re forgiven!


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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Sorry that I comment on your thread. I didn’t see the Jorg only sign.


> On Jul 27, 2018, at 3:23 PM, Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Jody,
> 
>> On 27 Jul 2018, at 23:32 AEST, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
>> > wrote:
>> 
>> I am good with the HTML pages.
> 
> Good for you.
> 
> Everyone is different!
> 
> I demand PDF-manuals!
> 
> HTML is a fu piece of sh** local and online.
> 
> 
> Regards
> Jörg Knebel, M.Eng. - 4D Developer since 1991
> TTT Data Systems Pty Ltd
> Phone: +61 (0)2 6601 7453
> www.tttdatasystems.com.au 
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech]

Jody,

> On 27 Jul 2018, at 23:32 AEST, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com 
> > wrote:
> 
> I am good with the HTML pages.

Good for you.

Everyone is different!

I demand PDF-manuals!

HTML is a fu piece of sh** local and online.


Regards
Jörg Knebel, M.Eng. - 4D Developer since 1991
TTT Data Systems Pty Ltd
Phone: +61 (0)2 6601 7453
www.tttdatasystems.com.au 
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Re: v17 PDF-Manuals

[Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech]

I couldn't agree more the html files are rubbish, poor navigation page
refresh etc etc. A return to the V11 style formatting and fonts would also
help. I wish designers would understand it its all about ease of use and
readability. 
Paul



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v17 PDF-Manuals

[Jörg Knebel via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

When can we expect the PDF-version of the manuals for v17?

HTML-only is not exactable!

Thanks


Regards
Jörg Knebel, M.Eng. - 4D Developer since 1991
TTT Data Systems Pty Ltd
Phone: +61 (0)2 6601 7453
www.tttdatasystems.com.au 
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