Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hi Tom, I do have Parallels but it’s currently running windows 7 I think. I think it would be a good idea to get windows 10 and install it with Parallels and see how that works out. Like you say it would be a better comparison then. OTOH, now that I realize I have a slow laptop, it gives me a good testing machine to see how other with a slow computer will experience this app. Appreciate, John... > On Mar 8, 2019, at 3:39 PM, Tom Benedict wrote: > > Hi John, > > I don’t know whether anyone has already mentioned this, but you might > consider installing Windows on your MacBook Pro. That would make it easier to > compare apples to apples (ha! I made a joke!). > > Anyhow, you can use Apple’s Bootcamp to install and run Windows on your > MacBook or you can purchase Parallels or VMWare then run Windows in one of > those environments. You’ll have to purchase a copy of Windows too. At least > then you’ll take the hardware out of the equation. > > HTH, > > Tom Benedict > ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hi John, I don’t know whether anyone has already mentioned this, but you might consider installing Windows on your MacBook Pro. That would make it easier to compare apples to apples (ha! I made a joke!). Anyhow, you can use Apple’s Bootcamp to install and run Windows on your MacBook or you can purchase Parallels or VMWare then run Windows in one of those environments. You’ll have to purchase a copy of Windows too. At least then you’ll take the hardware out of the equation. HTH, Tom Benedict ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hey Chip, Thanks for the info. Very helpful. I tend to bury my head in the sand when it comes to hardware. But now I need to pull it back out so my perspective is correct. Appreciate, John… > On Mar 8, 2019, at 2:49 PM, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote: > > in speed order > i3, i5, i7, i9 > > mobile versions are slower then desktop versions of the same processor (not > all 'i' processors have mobile versions). > > here are 2 sites to look at: > Toms hardware - simple processor comparisons > https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html > > Intel's own detailed comparisons > https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/05505/processors.html > > > I did not see the specific i3 you mentioned, but the i3 tested is roughly > 1/2 the rating of the i7 > > Chip > >> Hi Randy, >> >>> Processor: i3 vs i7 >> >> Is it really that much slower? >> >> If so then I got duped as I thought I was getting a reasonably faster >> Laptop 6 months ago. >> >> Thanks, >> John… >> >> >> ** >> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) >> Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html >> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech >> Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com >> ** > > Hell is other people > Jean-Paul Sartre ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hi John,
One more thing… That MacBook Pro has an SSD in it (Apple has not put spinny
hard-drives in their laptops since 2012.) If your Windows machine does not have
an SSD, that would make a HUGE difference.
Regards,
Ken
> On Mar 8, 2019, at 1:50 PM, John J Foster via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> This App is running under both Mac/Windows 4D v17R4...
>
> You might recall, a week ago or so, that I was soliciting help with creating
> an engined based 4D App. I figured that part out (although certification
> later). What I am finding baffling is how much slower the engine runs on
> windows versus on my MacBook Pro. When I say slower I seeing the Mac being
> 3-4 times faster in various scenarios.
>
> Part of the speed differentials might be a special plugin that the App uses.
> The plugin was created using Xcode for the Mac and Visual Studio (v15 I
> think) for windows. I’ll have to create special test to compare and see. The
> SVG drawing is slower; the searching in a database seems much slower.
>
> A special search routine, which requires calls to the plugin, took 1 minute 4
> seconds on the Mac and the same thing on window took over 4 minutes -
> compiled. BTW, the same routine running as source on the Mac took 3 minutes
> 41 seconds and on window took 10 minutes and 46 seconds (over twice as slow).
> Maybe the windows version of the plugin (there’s both a 32bit and a 64bit)
> has some other setting which can optimize it?
>
> FWIW, I have been trying to get by using as much of native 4D as I can and as
> little of the plugin as is required. I might have to reconsider this and move
> some of this work from 4D into the C++ plugin since calculating in the plugin
> it’s so much faster…
>
> On the Mac side:
>
> MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
> System Version: macOS 10.12.6 (16G1618)
>
> Processor Name: Intel Core i7
> Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
> Number of Processors: 1
> Total Number of Cores:4
> L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
> L3 Cache: 6 MB
> Memory: 16 GB
>
> On Windows:
>
> HP Notebook x64-bassed PC
> System Version: Windows 10 Home (10.0.17134)
>
> Processor Name: Intel Core i3-6100U
> Processor Speed: 2.30 GHz
> Number of Processors: 4 logical
> Memory: 8 GB {not sure if I can add more?}
>
> My past experience has been that it’s usually slower on the Mac and much
> faster on windows. But these are different times. Both the Mac and Windows
> have Bitdefender running for security. (It’s probable that there are other
> programs running on windows I am unaware of).
>
> This single user standalone app will be marketed to a client base which will
> not have necessarily have the fastest equipment. So anything I can do - not
> necessarily hardware based - to speed things up will be helpful.
>
> For those of you who work on both modern Macs and Windows what is your
> experience in terms of speed comparison?
>
> When I move a database over from a Mac to a windows do I need to throw all
> the indexes away and have them rebuilt? {I don’t think so since if it were
> running via 4D Server wouldn’t be an issue}
>
> Are there steps you’ve taken that sped things up?
>
> I might have to work with 4D’s profiler and some other test to determine the
> bottlenecks. Way too slow!
>
> Thanks for your feedback,
> John…
>
>
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
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Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
in speed order i3, i5, i7, i9 mobile versions are slower then desktop versions of the same processor (not all 'i' processors have mobile versions). here are 2 sites to look at: Toms hardware - simple processor comparisons https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/cpu-hierarchy,4312.html Intel's own detailed comparisons https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/05505/processors.html I did not see the specific i3 you mentioned, but the i3 tested is roughly 1/2 the rating of the i7 Chip > Hi Randy, > >> Processor: i3 vs i7 > > Is it really that much slower? > > If so then I got duped as I thought I was getting a reasonably faster > Laptop 6 months ago. > > Thanks, > John… > > > ** > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) > Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html > Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech > Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com > ** Hell is other people Jean-Paul Sartre ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hi Ken, Yea I’m beginning to see that the windows laptop is a lot slower then the MacBook Pro. So maybe I do need a newer laptop just for testing purposes. Then I can see how fast it will be across a range of processors. I want to know what the potential user base will experience so I can frame the perception. And yes, RAM would definitely improve the overall performance. But I’ll put those dollars towards a newer one I think. Appreciate, John... > The i3 only has two physical processing cores, each of which may operate with > two logical processors. Logical processors running on one physical core are > no where as speedy as two physically independent cores. Also 8-GB of RAM vs. > 16-GB of RAM certainly will affect throughput. ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hey Chuck, Yea I know the drive is slower on the PC as it’s not an SSD. I misspoke to Randy when I said I had purchased it 6 months ago. That’s not so. This was purchased from Costco in 2017 I think. (There is another that my girl-friend is using purchase 6 months ago). Anyway, it appears that it’s s slow machine so maybe a test on another more recent windows laptop and maybe a but less freak out! Thanks, John... > what is the drive in both. Perhaps Mac has SSD and windows has slow HD ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hi Randy, > Processor: i3 vs i7 Is it really that much slower? If so then I got duped as I thought I was getting a reasonably faster Laptop 6 months ago. Thanks, John… ** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **
Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hi John,
The i3 only has two physical processing cores, each of which may operate with
two logical processors. Logical processors running on one physical core are no
where as speedy as two physically independent cores. Also 8-GB of RAM vs. 16-GB
of RAM certainly will affect throughput.
Regards,
Ken
> On Mar 8, 2019, at 1:50 PM, John J Foster via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> This App is running under both Mac/Windows 4D v17R4...
>
> You might recall, a week ago or so, that I was soliciting help with creating
> an engined based 4D App. I figured that part out (although certification
> later). What I am finding baffling is how much slower the engine runs on
> windows versus on my MacBook Pro. When I say slower I seeing the Mac being
> 3-4 times faster in various scenarios.
>
> Part of the speed differentials might be a special plugin that the App uses.
> The plugin was created using Xcode for the Mac and Visual Studio (v15 I
> think) for windows. I’ll have to create special test to compare and see. The
> SVG drawing is slower; the searching in a database seems much slower.
>
> A special search routine, which requires calls to the plugin, took 1 minute 4
> seconds on the Mac and the same thing on window took over 4 minutes -
> compiled. BTW, the same routine running as source on the Mac took 3 minutes
> 41 seconds and on window took 10 minutes and 46 seconds (over twice as slow).
> Maybe the windows version of the plugin (there’s both a 32bit and a 64bit)
> has some other setting which can optimize it?
>
> FWIW, I have been trying to get by using as much of native 4D as I can and as
> little of the plugin as is required. I might have to reconsider this and move
> some of this work from 4D into the C++ plugin since calculating in the plugin
> it’s so much faster…
>
> On the Mac side:
>
> MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
> System Version: macOS 10.12.6 (16G1618)
>
> Processor Name: Intel Core i7
> Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
> Number of Processors: 1
> Total Number of Cores:4
> L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
> L3 Cache: 6 MB
> Memory: 16 GB
>
> On Windows:
>
> HP Notebook x64-bassed PC
> System Version: Windows 10 Home (10.0.17134)
>
> Processor Name: Intel Core i3-6100U
> Processor Speed: 2.30 GHz
> Number of Processors: 4 logical
> Memory: 8 GB {not sure if I can add more?}
>
> My past experience has been that it’s usually slower on the Mac and much
> faster on windows. But these are different times. Both the Mac and Windows
> have Bitdefender running for security. (It’s probable that there are other
> programs running on windows I am unaware of).
>
> This single user standalone app will be marketed to a client base which will
> not have necessarily have the fastest equipment. So anything I can do - not
> necessarily hardware based - to speed things up will be helpful.
>
> For those of you who work on both modern Macs and Windows what is your
> experience in terms of speed comparison?
>
> When I move a database over from a Mac to a windows do I need to throw all
> the indexes away and have them rebuilt? {I don’t think so since if it were
> running via 4D Server wouldn’t be an issue}
>
> Are there steps you’ve taken that sped things up?
>
> I might have to work with 4D’s profiler and some other test to determine the
> bottlenecks. Way too slow!
>
> Thanks for your feedback,
> John…
>
>
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **
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RE: Windows app 3-4 times slower
John,
Processor: i3 vs i7
Randy Engle
-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com> On Behalf Of John J Foster via
4D_Tech
Sent: Friday, March 8, 2019 12:51 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: John J Foster
Subject: Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hi All,
This App is running under both Mac/Windows 4D v17R4...
You might recall, a week ago or so, that I was soliciting help with creating an
engined based 4D App. I figured that part out (although certification later).
What I am finding baffling is how much slower the engine runs on windows versus
on my MacBook Pro. When I say slower I seeing the Mac being 3-4 times faster in
various scenarios.
Part of the speed differentials might be a special plugin that the App uses.
The plugin was created using Xcode for the Mac and Visual Studio (v15 I think)
for windows. I’ll have to create special test to compare and see. The SVG
drawing is slower; the searching in a database seems much slower.
A special search routine, which requires calls to the plugin, took 1 minute 4
seconds on the Mac and the same thing on window took over 4 minutes - compiled.
BTW, the same routine running as source on the Mac took 3 minutes 41 seconds
and on window took 10 minutes and 46 seconds (over twice as slow). Maybe the
windows version of the plugin (there’s both a 32bit and a 64bit) has some other
setting which can optimize it?
FWIW, I have been trying to get by using as much of native 4D as I can and as
little of the plugin as is required. I might have to reconsider this and move
some of this work from 4D into the C++ plugin since calculating in the plugin
it’s so much faster…
On the Mac side:
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
System Version: macOS 10.12.6 (16G1618)
Processor Name:Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 6 MB
Memory:16 GB
On Windows:
HP Notebook x64-bassed PC
System Version: Windows 10 Home (10.0.17134)
Processor Name:Intel Core i3-6100U
Processor Speed: 2.30 GHz
Number of Processors: 4 logical
Memory:8 GB {not sure if I can add more?}
My past experience has been that it’s usually slower on the Mac and much faster
on windows. But these are different times. Both the Mac and Windows have
Bitdefender running for security. (It’s probable that there are other programs
running on windows I am unaware of).
This single user standalone app will be marketed to a client base which will
not have necessarily have the fastest equipment. So anything I can do - not
necessarily hardware based - to speed things up will be helpful.
For those of you who work on both modern Macs and Windows what is your
experience in terms of speed comparison?
When I move a database over from a Mac to a windows do I need to throw all the
indexes away and have them rebuilt? {I don’t think so since if it were running
via 4D Server wouldn’t be an issue}
Are there steps you’ve taken that sped things up?
I might have to work with 4D’s profiler and some other test to determine the
bottlenecks. Way too slow!
Thanks for your feedback,
John…
**
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Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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Re: Windows app 3-4 times slower
what is the drive in both. Perhaps Mac has SSD and windows has slow HD
Regards
Chuck
On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 3:51 PM John J Foster via 4D_Tech
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> This App is running under both Mac/Windows 4D v17R4...
>
> You might recall, a week ago or so, that I was soliciting help with creating
> an engined based 4D App. I figured that part out (although certification
> later). What I am finding baffling is how much slower the engine runs on
> windows versus on my MacBook Pro. When I say slower I seeing the Mac being
> 3-4 times faster in various scenarios.
>
> Part of the speed differentials might be a special plugin that the App uses.
> The plugin was created using Xcode for the Mac and Visual Studio (v15 I
> think) for windows. I’ll have to create special test to compare and see. The
> SVG drawing is slower; the searching in a database seems much slower.
>
> A special search routine, which requires calls to the plugin, took 1 minute 4
> seconds on the Mac and the same thing on window took over 4 minutes -
> compiled. BTW, the same routine running as source on the Mac took 3 minutes
> 41 seconds and on window took 10 minutes and 46 seconds (over twice as slow).
> Maybe the windows version of the plugin (there’s both a 32bit and a 64bit)
> has some other setting which can optimize it?
>
> FWIW, I have been trying to get by using as much of native 4D as I can and as
> little of the plugin as is required. I might have to reconsider this and move
> some of this work from 4D into the C++ plugin since calculating in the plugin
> it’s so much faster…
>
> On the Mac side:
>
> MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
> System Version: macOS 10.12.6 (16G1618)
>
> Processor Name:Intel Core i7
> Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
> Number of Processors: 1
> Total Number of Cores: 4
> L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
> L3 Cache: 6 MB
> Memory:16 GB
>
> On Windows:
>
> HP Notebook x64-bassed PC
> System Version: Windows 10 Home (10.0.17134)
>
> Processor Name:Intel Core i3-6100U
> Processor Speed: 2.30 GHz
> Number of Processors: 4 logical
> Memory:8 GB {not sure if I can add more?}
>
> My past experience has been that it’s usually slower on the Mac and much
> faster on windows. But these are different times. Both the Mac and Windows
> have Bitdefender running for security. (It’s probable that there are other
> programs running on windows I am unaware of).
>
> This single user standalone app will be marketed to a client base which will
> not have necessarily have the fastest equipment. So anything I can do - not
> necessarily hardware based - to speed things up will be helpful.
>
> For those of you who work on both modern Macs and Windows what is your
> experience in terms of speed comparison?
>
> When I move a database over from a Mac to a windows do I need to throw all
> the indexes away and have them rebuilt? {I don’t think so since if it were
> running via 4D Server wouldn’t be an issue}
>
> Are there steps you’ve taken that sped things up?
>
> I might have to work with 4D’s profiler and some other test to determine the
> bottlenecks. Way too slow!
>
> Thanks for your feedback,
> John…
>
>
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **
--
-
Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306 Fax: (617) 232-1064
Informed Solutions, Inc.
Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
Providers of 4D, Sybase & SQL Server connectivity
http://www.informed-solutions.com
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Windows app 3-4 times slower
Hi All,
This App is running under both Mac/Windows 4D v17R4...
You might recall, a week ago or so, that I was soliciting help with creating an
engined based 4D App. I figured that part out (although certification later).
What I am finding baffling is how much slower the engine runs on windows versus
on my MacBook Pro. When I say slower I seeing the Mac being 3-4 times faster in
various scenarios.
Part of the speed differentials might be a special plugin that the App uses.
The plugin was created using Xcode for the Mac and Visual Studio (v15 I think)
for windows. I’ll have to create special test to compare and see. The SVG
drawing is slower; the searching in a database seems much slower.
A special search routine, which requires calls to the plugin, took 1 minute 4
seconds on the Mac and the same thing on window took over 4 minutes - compiled.
BTW, the same routine running as source on the Mac took 3 minutes 41 seconds
and on window took 10 minutes and 46 seconds (over twice as slow). Maybe the
windows version of the plugin (there’s both a 32bit and a 64bit) has some other
setting which can optimize it?
FWIW, I have been trying to get by using as much of native 4D as I can and as
little of the plugin as is required. I might have to reconsider this and move
some of this work from 4D into the C++ plugin since calculating in the plugin
it’s so much faster…
On the Mac side:
MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015)
System Version: macOS 10.12.6 (16G1618)
Processor Name:Intel Core i7
Processor Speed: 2.8 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 6 MB
Memory:16 GB
On Windows:
HP Notebook x64-bassed PC
System Version: Windows 10 Home (10.0.17134)
Processor Name:Intel Core i3-6100U
Processor Speed: 2.30 GHz
Number of Processors: 4 logical
Memory:8 GB {not sure if I can add more?}
My past experience has been that it’s usually slower on the Mac and much faster
on windows. But these are different times. Both the Mac and Windows have
Bitdefender running for security. (It’s probable that there are other programs
running on windows I am unaware of).
This single user standalone app will be marketed to a client base which will
not have necessarily have the fastest equipment. So anything I can do - not
necessarily hardware based - to speed things up will be helpful.
For those of you who work on both modern Macs and Windows what is your
experience in terms of speed comparison?
When I move a database over from a Mac to a windows do I need to throw all the
indexes away and have them rebuilt? {I don’t think so since if it were running
via 4D Server wouldn’t be an issue}
Are there steps you’ve taken that sped things up?
I might have to work with 4D’s profiler and some other test to determine the
bottlenecks. Way too slow!
Thanks for your feedback,
John…
**
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Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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