Re: [9fans] megamouse?

2010-06-29 Thread Pietro Gagliardi
On Jun 29, 2010, at 7:11 PM, John Floren wrote: Hey, there's a way to end the mouse/keyboard switching argument once and for all! With 18 buttons, you can just make the mouse a chording keyboard as well and never move your hand from the mouse. Amputees around the world jump for joy. Also as a

Re: [9fans] megamouse?

2010-06-29 Thread John Floren
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 6:10 PM, David Leimbach wrote: > http://warmouse.com/pr062810.html > Looks complicated. > > Hey, there's a way to end the mouse/keyboard switching argument once and for all! With 18 buttons, you can just make the mouse a chording keyboard as well and never move your hand f

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Russ Cox
what i said to people at usenix was approximately the following. i think that porting go to plan 9 - the time to get something working that runs all the go programs - is not more than a week of concerted effort. i also think that it just hasn't been high enough priority for anyone (myself included

Re: [9fans] megamouse?

2010-06-29 Thread Ethan Grammatikidis
On 29 Jun 2010, at 11:17 pm, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: See also http://cyborggaming.com/ for complicated mice :) 2010/6/29 David Leimbach : http://warmouse.com/pr062810.html Looks complicated. Cyborg Gaming's R.A.T. I think I could do something with, but the warmouse? Get that think away fro

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread cinap_lenrek
the segment registers are just indices to the kernels descriptor tables. setting the segment registers can be done with assembly instructions from userspace. but what you need is being able to modify the descriptors in a save way from userspace! i needed this for linuxemu to implement set_thread_

Re: [9fans] megamouse?

2010-06-29 Thread Devon H. O'Dell
See also http://cyborggaming.com/ for complicated mice :) 2010/6/29 David Leimbach : > http://warmouse.com/pr062810.html > Looks complicated. > >

[9fans] megamouse?

2010-06-29 Thread David Leimbach
http://warmouse.com/pr062810.html Looks complicated.

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Charles Forsyth
>Or is it bigger than that? the go toolchain is replete with go-specific things, and produces incompatible .8 files (and perhaps for other architectures), because of the way certain changes were made. as russ suggested, it's probably easiest just to have a /bin/go and put go/8c, go/8l etc in that

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Steve Simon
On Tue Jun 29 22:04:19 BST 2010, rminn...@gmail.com wrote: > Can someone remind me of the problem? Is it simply the need to be able > to set %gs? > > Could a write to /dev/arch of something like > gs 0xwhatever > which sets %gs for that process solve the problem? > > Or is it bigger than that? >

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Steve Simon
> Many banks still use 4 digit PINs on their ATM cards, without problem. > Possession is a very important factor. well, posscession and the fact that you only get three attempts to enter the PIN (in the UK at least), so brute force attacks are a non-starter, so limited kyspace is much less of a p

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread ron minnich
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 2:15 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > Or syscall implementation or net / fd / etc implementation. > pkg/runtime should be easy. I'll do it tonight. It would be nice to avoid a system call if possible :-) ron

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Devon H. O'Dell
2010/6/29 erik quanstrom : > On Tue Jun 29 16:46:40 EDT 2010, eri...@gmail.com wrote: >> erik's attempt is now in the go-plan9 repo under its own branch for >> those that wish to take a look. >> Hopefully I merged it properly. > > it compiles and links, but obviously doesn't run > since there reall

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread ron minnich
Can someone remind me of the problem? Is it simply the need to be able to set %gs? Could a write to /dev/arch of something like gs 0xwhatever which sets %gs for that process solve the problem? Or is it bigger than that? ron

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread erik quanstrom
On Tue Jun 29 16:46:40 EDT 2010, eri...@gmail.com wrote: > erik's attempt is now in the go-plan9 repo under its own branch for > those that wish to take a look. > Hopefully I merged it properly. it compiles and links, but obviously doesn't run since there really is no runtime. - erik

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Eric Van Hensbergen
erik's attempt is now in the go-plan9 repo under its own branch for those that wish to take a look. Hopefully I merged it properly. -eric On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 1:32 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: >> a) Simple logistics (makefile/script transformations, Sape's branch >> has some of this, what t

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Eric Van Hensbergen
I was sleep-deprived much of the week, so my memory is most likely not exact (so hopefully Russ will provide a clarification), but I believe he said something along the lines of pointing to the top of the stack as a workaround. I haven't had a chance to look at it yet, so that's about as much of a

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread ron minnich
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 2:14 AM, hiro <23h...@googlemail.com> wrote: >> not saying it is "good" or "bad", just wanted people to see it > > So is it now "bad" to say what you think? Nope, I just have my own opinions on this but don't want to corrupt anyone :-) ron

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Wes Kussmaul
Devon H. O'Dell wrote: 2010/6/29 erik quanstrom : I don't understand why modern security systems have an upper limit on passphrase length. Because people can't remember passwords, and companies don't like employing full-time password changers. i don't understand this commen

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Devon H. O'Dell
2010/6/29 erik quanstrom : >> The length of the phrase is actually in fact tied explicitly to >> memory. The longer a string of characters, the more difficult it is to >> remember. That's just fact > > repeating this doesn't make it true, but it does make > the phrase easier to remember.  so i thin

Re: [9fans] i.e. (was go toolchain)

2010-06-29 Thread Francisco J Ballesteros
If you have problems we can try to help you off list. On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:30 PM, David Leimbach wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Francisco J Ballesteros > wrote: >> >> Now that I remember, we recently added some demos for >> o/live & octopus to the http://lsub.org/ls/demos.ht

Re: [9fans] i.e. (was go toolchain)

2010-06-29 Thread David Leimbach
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: > Now that I remember, we recently added some demos for > o/live & octopus to the http://lsub.org/ls/demos.html > page and we didn't post here to let 9fans know. > Thanks, this is very cool. I'm considering setting up a PC at my off

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread erik quanstrom
> The length of the phrase is actually in fact tied explicitly to > memory. The longer a string of characters, the more difficult it is to > remember. That's just fact repeating this doesn't make it true, but it does make the phrase easier to remember. so i think your argument is its own defeat.

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Wes Kussmaul
Devon H. O'Dell wrote: 2010/6/29 Wes Kussmaul : Stanley Lieber wrote: Anywhere legitimate identification is used, legitimate identification can be purchased. There are imperfect but very good ways to protect against that vulnerability. They vary with the needs (and budgets) of r

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Devon H. O'Dell
2010/6/29 erik quanstrom : >> > I don't understand why modern security systems have an upper limit on >> > passphrase length. >> >> Because people can't remember passwords, and companies don't like >> employing full-time password changers. > > i don't understand this comment.  the length of a pass

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread erik quanstrom
> > I don't understand why modern security systems have an upper limit on > > passphrase length. > > Because people can't remember passwords, and companies don't like > employing full-time password changers. i don't understand this comment. the length of a password is only vaguely related to me

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Devon H. O'Dell
2010/6/29 Steve Simon : >> But you can do at least as good as these forms of ID. PKI requires >> knowledge of some sort of passkey. (I just worry about identification >> for people who are not smart enough to pick a good key. Which, >> unfortunately, is also most people. > > My understanding is a p

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Steve Simon
> But you can do at least as good as these forms of ID. PKI requires > knowledge of some sort of passkey. (I just worry about identification > for people who are not smart enough to pick a good key. Which, > unfortunately, is also most people. My understanding is a passkey just needs sufficent ent

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread erik quanstrom
> a) Simple logistics (makefile/script transformations, Sape's branch > has some of this, what the right way to do this in order to be > integrated back into the mainline go tree is an open question) [...] > > I wonder if one way of avoiding (a) is just to rig to cross-compile > from Linux/MacOSX

Re: [9fans] i.e. (was go toolchain)

2010-06-29 Thread Francisco J Ballesteros
Now that I remember, we recently added some demos for o/live & octopus to the http://lsub.org/ls/demos.html page and we didn't post here to let 9fans know. On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 8:04 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: > no yet. > I'll post here when there's something to see. > > Sorry to polute

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Francisco J Ballesteros
Anyone (Russ?) can repeat here aprox. what the workaround for b was, for those like me that didn't attend usenix? On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 8:10 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: >> >> Is the porting process active? >> > > It seems to be an opportunistic concurrent activity (which is why I > tried to

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Eric Van Hensbergen
> > Is the porting process active? > It seems to be an opportunistic concurrent activity (which is why I tried to create a central repo so we'd get some benefit from the sparse multiple activities). Most people were just waiting for Andrey :) There is some stuff that Forysth/Jmk have been lookin

[9fans] i.e. (was go toolchain)

2010-06-29 Thread Francisco J Ballesteros
no yet. I'll post here when there's something to see. Sorry to polute the go thread with this, hence the new subject. On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 8:02 PM, Jack Johnson wrote: > On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Francisco J Ballesteros > wrote: >> FTS, I'm interesting in getting Go here because I'm

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Jack Johnson
On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 9:48 AM, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: > FTS, I'm interesting in getting Go here because I'm going to write > the i.e. window system (successor of o/live, o/mero, ...) also in go, to run > at least the viewer native on unix systems. The C version is still cooking. Is ther

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Francisco J Ballesteros
FTS, I'm interesting in getting Go here because I'm going to write the i.e. window system (successor of o/live, o/mero, ...) also in go, to run at least the viewer native on unix systems. The C version is still cooking. On Tue, Jun 29, 2010 at 7:36 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: > Which thing

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Francisco J Ballesteros
Which things are yet to be done to get the port done?

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Devon H. O'Dell
2010/6/29 Rob Pike : > On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: >> On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 4:26 AM,   wrote: but I can dig them up, clean them up, and share them, >>> >>> My particular concern is to encourage convergence towards a single >>> source distribution rather

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Devon H. O'Dell
2010/6/29 Wes Kussmaul : > Stanley Lieber wrote: >> >> Anywhere legitimate identification is used, legitimate identification can >> be purchased. > > There are imperfect but very good ways to protect against that > vulnerability. They vary with the needs (and budgets) of relying parties. I'm prett

Re: [9fans] Go/Inferno toolchain (Was: comment and newline in

2010-06-29 Thread Rob Pike
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: > On Sat, Jun 26, 2010 at 4:26 AM,   wrote: >>> but I can dig >>> them up, clean them up, and share them, >> >> My particular concern is to encourage convergence towards a single >> source distribution rather than divergence as seems to h

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Wes Kussmaul
Stanley Lieber wrote: Anywhere legitimate identification is used, legitimate identification can be purchased. There are imperfect but very good ways to protect against that vulnerability. They vary with the needs (and budgets) of relying parties. -- Learn about The Authenticity Economy at

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread hiro
To me it seems that their aim is complexity. On 6/29/10, Gabriel Díaz wrote: > hello > > > I do like their aim, let's see what they end with :), if that's disclosed > someday. . . :), > also seems they will end with something too complex to be of general usage > > slds. > > gabi > > > > - Ori

Re: [9fans] problems with tracing 9vx on os x (was: Re: ghostscript not finding LucidaSans

2010-06-29 Thread Pietro Gagliardi
On Jun 29, 2010, at 4:03 AM, yy wrote: By the way, you should be able to deactivate compilation of the tap (or pcap) ether device with the variable PLAN9TAP (PLAN9PCAP) in Makefrag. Okay, I did so but I still get the crash as before. Here's a gdb backtrace: #0 0x919366fa in select$DARWIN_E

[9fans] interesting pci configuration

2010-06-29 Thread erik quanstrom
i hadn't seen bussno > 15 before. might as well go for broke: [...] 2.4.0: net 02.00.00 14e4/16aa 7 0:f804 33554432 1: 16 64.15.0:brg 06.04.00 1166/0140 11 64.16.0:brg 06.04.00 1166/0142 7 64.17.0:brg 06.04.00 1166/0144 11 64.18.0:brg 06.04.

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Gabriel Díaz
hello I do like their aim, let's see what they end with :), if that's disclosed someday. . . :), also seems they will end with something too complex to be of general usage slds. gabi - Original Message From: ron minnich To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net> S

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread erik quanstrom
> Computer networks are different. Discrete electronics haven't been > invented to create entropy... my air conditioner begs to differ! - erik

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread hiro
> not saying it is "good" or "bad", just wanted people to see it So is it now "bad" to say what you think? If you live in a hostile environment, with rules too complex to understand, it's clever to be also unpredictable. Computer networks are different. Discrete electronics haven't been invented

Re: [9fans] offered without comment or judgement

2010-06-29 Thread Akshat Kumar
On Mon, Jun 28, 2010 at 3:32 PM, ron minnich wrote: > not saying it is "good" or "bad", just wanted people to see it > > > https://www.signup4.net/UPLOAD/STRA10A/DARP31E/CRASH%20Proposer%20Day%20v2.pdf Perhaps I am oversimplifying, but the proposed resolution seems to be: Abstract MINIX. Best,

Re: [9fans] problems with tracing 9vx on os x (was: Re: ghostscript not finding LucidaSans

2010-06-29 Thread yy
2010/6/28 Pietro Gagliardi : > First I found a slight building problem on Mac OS X 10.5.8: ethertap.c needs > to be changed to include before and to add a > defined(__MACOSX__) or similar to the #elf defined(__FreeBSD__) so opentap() > can be defined. > > However once this version was built, I go