Re: [9fans] Kernel compile in Linuxemu
fixed, try the latest version from sources. Wunderbar! Thank you, Cinap. There are still quite a few missing syscalls, but these are just warning messages during compile (by the same script). If you like, I can give you the messages, but I presume you've already acknowledged this. I've now built kernel modules for my Acer Aspire One, from Plan 9. (In case someone thought it couldn't get more esoteric on Plan 9 than Plan 9 itself.) Now, I've v9fs and can watch movies -- with proper seeking and what not -- on Linux, hosted from the external USB drive attached to my Plan 9 CPU server being managed by cwfs. Thanks again, ak
[9fans] 9P on android
Hi folks, I just purchased an G2-Touch phone (running Android) - a really cool toy, but it lacks 9P support ;-o Maybe someone's already working on this issue ? cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 174 7066481 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [9fans] ugly eqn/troff result
i do see that the +s don't line up, but only by 1 pixel. why do you think they should? i would think that the centerline of the left ( right ) business should line up with the centerline of a +. but that's an uneducated guess. can you point to a reference that says eqn behaves as you expect? - erik I don't think I can... The eqn behaviour just stuck my eyes (for me it seems to be more than a 1-pixel shift). I have used TeX for my work all my life, which just typesets it well. On the other hand I like the succint eqn notation much more... Thanks Ruda
[9fans] Are proto=vnc in factotum and vncs functional?
Gents, I'm trying to get vncs working, but it: 1) needs key 'proto=p9sk1' despite of vncauthsrv() calls auth_challenge() with proto=vnc (src -s vncauthsrv vncs). Substitution of keypattern occurs in factotum at findp9authkey (src -s findp9authkey auth/factotum). That's because proto=vnc implementation in factotum reuses p9crinit as init procedure of the protocol. The same time, it provides own vncaddkey, which is never called for proto=p9sk1 keys. Such state of things appears as broken to me... 2) with proto=p9sk1 key loaded into factotum it fails to start client auth: vncs: vncchal: auth server protocol botch This can be resulted because the key wasn't loaded to factotum via vncaddkey, but I may be wrong. Does anybody have vncs working? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Yaroslav.
Re: [9fans] Using cwfs
The disk and controllers are doing almost nothing regarding suspend. that's a bug. we'll have to go again over it to add the bits needed to handle suspend/resume of usb ports and devices in the right way. regarding the error I don't know what it could be. but in any case it shouldn't be %r as Erik said. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:29 AM, erik quanstromquans...@quanstro.net wrote: wrenread: error on w0(1691022): %r something's wrong here. %r never prints %r unless errstr is literaly %r. does your source match sources? where w0 is the disk itself. Note that the final message states 89805 blocks were copied, whereas initially 89806 blocks were queued - was the error on just this one block? If so, what could possibly be the reason? I doubt my USB drive would be acting up. why couldn't your usb drive have a bad sector or some other problem? you could even get less than the requested number of bytes without an error. read(2) says that it's perfectly fine for pread to return less than the requested number of bytes. to be really safe, wrenread should use something like preadn. i would think that usb would be a bit antisocial if pread returned less than the requested number of bytes if RBUFSIZE = 64k. but otoh, if it really is a hardware limit, it would make sense. we'd just call the hardware antisocial in that case. ☺ - erik
Re: [9fans] Using cwfs
On Thu Aug 27 10:11:02 EDT 2009, n...@lsub.org wrote: The disk and controllers are doing almost nothing regarding suspend. that's a bug. we'll have to go again over it to add the bits needed to handle suspend/resume of usb ports and devices in the right way. it's probablly going to also be necessary to either (a) use modeselect (10) to turn off power mgmt (assuming scsi), or (b) teach usb/disk how to beat its target about the ears once the usb link has come up until it responds. kind of like the online loop for sd devices. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
I'm interested in doing some stuff with the Palm Pre. I'm actually looking at the javascript implementations of it as well. I just have practically no time to invest these days in this stuff. I think someone already got some of the plan 9 userspace tools on here though. Dave On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:20 AM, Enrico Weigelt weig...@metux.de wrote: Hi folks, I just purchased an G2-Touch phone (running Android) - a really cool toy, but it lacks 9P support ;-o Maybe someone's already working on this issue ? cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 174 7066481 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [9fans] ugly eqn/troff result
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:59 AM, Rudolf Sykorarudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: .EQ a + left ( A + B right ) .EN For what it's worth, the Heirloom Troff distribution tools format this with both +'s at exactly the same level. Perhaps it is the better font support in troff or perhaps it is due to eqn fixes. http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/doctools.html Russ
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
Hello, 2009/8/26 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net: it contains all the changes from the last 10 days. should fix all reported problems, except béla's. Could you post the link? I am new to this list and plan9, and i can not find a 9atom.iso, but a plan9.iso.bz2 [1] It would also be helpful for me reading some introductory material, i guess i can find it, but if you know some reference i would appreciate it. Kind regards and thanks for the work :) [1] http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/download/plan9.iso.bz2 -- Héctor Orón
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:20 AM, Enrico Weigeltweig...@metux.de wrote: Hi folks, I just purchased an G2-Touch phone (running Android) - a really cool toy, but it lacks 9P support ;-o I don't know how open Android is, but if you could cross-compile the v9fs modules (or compile them on the phone, if they let you get the toolchain on it), you'd be in business. Otherwise, there's always one of the userspace solutions, such as 9pfuse. Maybe someone's already working on this issue ? cu -- -- Enrico Weigelt, metux IT service -- http://www.metux.de/ phone: +49 36207 519931 email: weig...@metux.de mobile: +49 174 7066481 icq: 210169427 skype: nekrad666 -- Embedded-Linux / Portierung / Opensource-QM / Verteilte Systeme --
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
I'm actually looking at the javascript implementations of [9p] as well. has javascript finally got support for binary data?
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
2009/8/26 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net: it contains all the changes from the last 10 days. should fix all reported problems, except béla's. Could you post the link? I am new to this list and plan9, and i can not find a 9atom.iso, but a plan9.iso.bz2 [1] It would also be helpful for me reading some introductory material, i guess i can find it, but if you know some reference i would appreciate it. the link is ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/9atom.iso.bz2 cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84Aug 26 09:13 9atom.iso.bz2 just a point of clarification. the purpose of 9atom.iso is to help people get going who are having trouble with various sata or pata chipsets. i recommend using the standard cd if it works for you. applying the contrib packages to an official cd makes more sense as i hope that this one-off cd can go away in the future. it has different kernels and 9loads than the distribution. it also applies the ape strtod fix to awk, and doesn't use floating point in venti or fossil to avoid rounding errors. you can think of 9atom.iso as plan9.iso.bz2 + contrib quanstro/9load-e820 (binaries only) contrib quanstro/sd (binaries only) /n/sources/patch/apestrtod (awk binary only) /n/sources/patch/fossil-sleep-stress (venti moded, too) for my own convienence, there are some kernel differences not covered above. they should be inconsequential. but the source to that kernel is here ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/kernel.mkfs.bz2 - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:16 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: 2009/8/26 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net: it contains all the changes from the last 10 days. should fix all reported problems, except béla's. Could you post the link? I am new to this list and plan9, and i can not find a 9atom.iso, but a plan9.iso.bz2 [1] It would also be helpful for me reading some introductory material, i guess i can find it, but if you know some reference i would appreciate it. the link is ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/9atom.iso.bz2 cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84Aug 26 09:13 9atom.iso.bz2 just a point of clarification. the purpose of 9atom.iso is to help people get going who are having trouble with various sata or pata chipsets. i recommend using the standard cd if it works for you. applying the contrib packages to an official cd makes more sense as i hope that this one-off cd can go away in the future. it has different kernels and 9loads than the distribution. it also applies the ape strtod fix to awk, and doesn't use floating point in venti or fossil to avoid rounding errors. you can think of 9atom.iso as plan9.iso.bz2 + contrib quanstro/9load-e820 (binaries only) contrib quanstro/sd (binaries only) /n/sources/patch/apestrtod (awk binary only) /n/sources/patch/fossil-sleep-stress (venti moded, too) for my own convienence, there are some kernel differences not covered above. they should be inconsequential. but the source to that kernel is here ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/kernel.mkfs.bz2 - erik I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to replace 9load. However, is there any chance of getting your 9load in the mainline if/once people determine it to support more hardware?
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
I haven't been following. I find a lot of web stuff to be off-putting, so I've not been keeping up. base64 encoding stuff is crap but could suffice in a pinch. uh, i don't think so. 9p2000 doesn't have a base64 encoding option. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM, C H Forsyth fors...@vitanuova.com wrote: I'm actually looking at the javascript implementations of [9p] as well. has javascript finally got support for binary data? I haven't been following. I find a lot of web stuff to be off-putting, so I've not been keeping up. base64 encoding stuff is crap but could suffice in a pinch. Dave
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
There is a searchable mailing list archive at http://9fans/net/archive that's quite useful. --lyndon
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM, David Leimbachleim...@gmail.com wrote: I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to replace 9load. It's a gsoc project for Iruata to which I just gave a passing grade. it's doable. It needs a new PBS, which iruata wrote. ron
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:05 AM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM, David Leimbachleim...@gmail.com wrote: I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to replace 9load. It's a gsoc project for Iruata to which I just gave a passing grade. it's doable. It needs a new PBS, which iruata wrote. ron COOL!
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:57 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@coraid.com wrote: I haven't been following. I find a lot of web stuff to be off-putting, so I've not been keeping up. base64 encoding stuff is crap but could suffice in a pinch. uh, i don't think so. 9p2000 doesn't have a base64 encoding option. As long as the server can deal with decoding and turning it into 9p again, it's nearly the same thing (albeit a 9p proxy). I'm looking at these two implementations here to figure out how they work if binary javascript doesn't... http://www.kix.in/projects/web9/ http://code.google.com/p/limbo-machine/wiki/JS Dave - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to replace 9load. It's a gsoc project for Iruata to which I just gave a passing grade. it's doable. It needs a new PBS, which iruata wrote. is it small enough to pxe? - erik
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
I haven't been following. I find a lot of web stuff to be off-putting, so I've not been keeping up. base64 encoding stuff is crap but could suffice in a pinch. uh, i don't think so. 9p2000 doesn't have a base64 encoding option. no direct binary support; but that's not the only problem. if you're talking about using javascript inside the browser, you're stuck with http and -- because there can only be one outstanding request -- with continuous polling.
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to replace 9load. However, is there any chance of getting your 9load in the mainline if/once people determine it to support more hardware? i would hope so. it's pretty closely tied to the sd stuff i've been working on. it does have a few other things, too. the nifty trick is to be able to automaticly remember the bootdev so that bootdev can be used as a replacable parameter. this allows a single plan9.ini to be able to boot from sdC0 sdD0 sdE1 or whatever. - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
Er, it doesn't need a new PBS, booting Plan 9 from a Plan 9 kernel already worked just fine with what russ did years ago. uriel On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:05 PM, ron minnichrminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:51 AM, David Leimbachleim...@gmail.com wrote: I think there's work going on to use plan 9 to load plan 9 (maybe?) to replace 9load. It's a gsoc project for Iruata to which I just gave a passing grade. it's doable. It needs a new PBS, which iruata wrote. ron
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: Er, it doesn't need a new PBS, booting Plan 9 from a Plan 9 kernel already worked just fine with what russ did years ago. Hi, to clear up the air, and correct this wrong comment: we did a few things - kill the FAT partition - parse an a.out header, load the plan 9 kernel from partition blocks 2 and up To do this requires a new pbs. I don't much care if you believe me, perhaps you can implement this yourself first before you make such a claim. ron
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: Er, it doesn't need a new PBS, booting Plan 9 from a Plan 9 kernel already worked just fine with what russ did years ago. uriel i heard that from you already. i just don't know why haven't you done it yet. for the ones interested, the code is at http://src.oitobits.net/9null. i'm writing a README explaining how to compile and install. iru
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
Can it load and parse plan9.ini? uriel On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Iruata Souzairu.mu...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: Er, it doesn't need a new PBS, booting Plan 9 from a Plan 9 kernel already worked just fine with what russ did years ago. uriel i heard that from you already. i just don't know why haven't you done it yet. for the ones interested, the code is at http://src.oitobits.net/9null. i'm writing a README explaining how to compile and install. iru
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
for the ones interested, the code is at http://src.oitobits.net/9null. i'm writing a README explaining how to compile and install. Are there plans for this to get folded into the mainline? iru Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:16 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: 2009/8/26 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net: it contains all the changes from the last 10 days. should fix all reported problems, except béla's. Could you post the link? I am new to this list and plan9, and i can not find a 9atom.iso, but a plan9.iso.bz2 [1] It would also be helpful for me reading some introductory material, i guess i can find it, but if you know some reference i would appreciate it. the link is ftp://ftp.quanstro.net/other/9atom.iso.bz2 cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84Aug 26 09:13 9atom.iso.bz2 I really don't understand why, from home or work, I can't download this thing... cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84 Is the checksum I'm getting. When I download via a web browser it gets to the last bit of the data, and craps out. When I use an ftp client, it claims it is complete, but then gets the wrong checksum. I'm totally baffled. Is there somewhere else I can try to pull this from? Dave
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
Because the whole point of the project was to replace 9load, and the way plan9 systems tell 9load what kernel to load is using plan9.ini On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:57 PM, ron minnichrminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: Can it load and parse plan9.ini? why do you want to do that? Just wondering. ron
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: Because the whole point of the project was to replace 9load, and the way plan9 systems tell 9load what kernel to load is using plan9.ini no, the point of the project was to have a new way to load that did not require 9load or 9fat or any legacy at all. I am surprised you would tie yourself down to legacy that way. Or I'm not. Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to be changed? ron
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:07 PM, Tim Newshamnews...@lava.net wrote: for the ones interested, the code is at http://src.oitobits.net/9null. i'm writing a README explaining how to compile and install. Are there plans for this to get folded into the mainline? I wrote it with the hope of getting it into the mainline, so the choice is up to people with access to the labs. iru
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:48 PM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: Can it load and parse plan9.ini? uriel it can. can you? iru
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:59 AM, C H Forsyth fors...@vitanuova.com wrote: has javascript finally got support for binary data? I haven't been following. I find a lot of web stuff to be off-putting, so I've not been keeping up. base64 encoding stuff is crap but could suffice in a pinch. Did Javascript not support binary data in the past? It seems to support it fine in my browser at least. Here's a transcript from a javascript shell session in my browser (note, top line is most recent, bottom line is oldest): http://www.thenewsh.com/shell.html Eval: for(var i = 0; i x.length; i++) _print(x.charCodeAt(i) + \n); Return: undefined 255 254 3 2 1 0 Eval: x = \x00\x01\x02\x03\xfe\xff Return: Dave Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:17 PM, ron minnichrminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:07 PM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: Because the whole point of the project was to replace 9load, and the way plan9 systems tell 9load what kernel to load is using plan9.ini no, yes. the point of the project was to have a new way to load that did not require 9load Right. or 9fat or any legacy at all. Wrong. I am surprised you would tie yourself down to legacy that way. Or I'm not. 9fat might be 'legacy', but unlike 9load it causes no problems or wasted duplicated efforts, is simple and reliable, it is convenient because can be accessed from other OSes, and is used by most Plan 9 systems to store their kernels and plan9.inis To replace 9fat we would need something that at least shared all its advantages, and I have not seen any proposal that does. Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to be changed? plan9.ini is certainly not perfect, and I'm happy to see it changed some day, but that was not what the project was about. Anyway, it doesn't matter because apparently the bits I wanted have been written (or so I'm told) and should work (if I'm not mistaken) just fine in a backwards compatible fashion using russ' boot scheme. uriel
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:48 AM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: Can it load and parse plan9.ini? why do you want to do that? Just wondering. ron
Re: [9fans] Getting printing to work over ethernet
OK. that explains why adding FIFO didn't make any difference. But now I know that I have done whatever you are supposed to do to make it work, so I will try to track down why there are errors. Wanted to know if there was something else to configure or run for the magic to work. The only relevant documentation I've found on the subject is lp(1) and lp(8), and /sys/src/cmd/lp/. /jonas -Ursprungligt Meddelande- From: erik quanstrom [quans...@quanstro.net] Sent: 27/8/2009 2:33:34 AM To: 9fans@9fans.net Subject: Re: [9fans] Getting printing to work over ethernet On Wed Aug 26 20:30:05 EDT 2009, ge...@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: The final `FIFO' in the scheduler column of /sys/lib/lp/devices has been optional for a while. Everybody uses FIFO now, so it's the default. is there a man page for those of us who are not quite following along with the format? - erik . Ppfont face=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif size=2 style=font-size:13.5px___BRa style=font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif; font-size: 10px; color: #00f href=http://www.eniro.se/?partnerid=spray_mail; target=_blankEniro Supersök - är vad det heter/a/font
Re: [9fans] Getting printing to work over ethernet
The only relevant documentation I've found on the subject is lp(1) and lp(8), and /sys/src/cmd/lp/. See also /sys/doc/lp.ps --lyndon
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: plan9.ini is certainly not perfect, and I'm happy to see it changed some day, but that was not what the project was about. I'm glad to know you defined the project. I guess the guy who wrote the code (Iruata) and the mentor (me) were just confused. Anyway, anyone familiar with the situation understands your level of accuracy, so the point is made. ron
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
I used Charles Forsyth's 9P implementation in Java (styx-n-9p) to start a small 9P graphical browser on Android, some weeks ago, and it seems to work very well. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to be changed? would it be fair to ask a the same question from a little different perspective? could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't been a problem for me. - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
I really don't understand why, from home or work, I can't download this thing... cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84 Is the checksum I'm getting. that's the same checksum i posted. i guess i don't understand the problem. the file size is 88153831. When I download via a web browser it gets to the last bit of the data, and craps out. When I use an ftp client, it claims it is complete, but then gets the wrong checksum. I'm totally baffled. Is there somewhere else I can try to pull this from? no alternate locations. sorry. - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:14 PM, erik quanstromquans...@coraid.com wrote: could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't been a problem for me. 8.3. It's burned me time and again. ron
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 5:14 PM, erik quanstromquans...@coraid.com wrote: Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to be changed? would it be fair to ask a the same question from a little different perspective? could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't been a problem for me. 9fat serves only two purposes: a) be a home for plan9.ini, b) be a home for some kernels. in the actual state of affairs, you must have 9fat and it must reside at the very beginning of the Plan 9 slice on the disk. 9null (the project we're talking about) doesn't require any of it, but allows it. you can have a fat partition with plan9.ini and, say, 9pcf. but it can't reside at the very beginning of the disk. in fact, you should be able to have plan9.ini and kernels anywhere you want: fossil, kfs, ext2, iso9660, c. the Plan 9 slice layout used by 9null is: sector 0: pbs sector 1: Plan 9 partition table sector 2..k: 9pcload kernel sector k..n: data iru
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:34 PM, ron minnichrminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:27 PM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: plan9.ini is certainly not perfect, and I'm happy to see it changed some day, but that was not what the project was about. I'm glad to know you defined the project. I guess the guy who wrote the code (Iruata) and the mentor (me) were just confused. Yes, you were confused, and yes, the project was my idea (although that was just a restatement of russ original suggestion). But it doesn't matter because it seems eventually iru got around writing the code needed to fulfill russ original idea, so I'm happy because if I understood this correctly, it should be possible to put that together with russ loader and have a backwards compatible replacement for 9load. uriel
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
no alternate locations. sorry. You sure you don't want me to mirror this stuff?
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:14 PM, erik quanstromquans...@coraid.com wrote: Do we stick with that file format forever? is it perfect and never to be changed? would it be fair to ask a the same question from a little different perspective? could someone explain what the disadvantages and problems with 9fat are? i'm asking out of ignorance, since 9fat hasn't been a problem for me. It has not been a problem for anyone I know. It might not be perfect or beautiful, but I have yet to hear any suggestion for a replacement that has all the advantages of 9fat (simple, reliable, easily accessible from other systems, etc.) uriel
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Urielurie...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, you were confused, and yes, the project was my idea (although that was just a restatement of russ original suggestion). you mean it was russ' original idea which you misunderstood, I expect. And it's hardly new: we were doing it at LANL 8 years ago when we put Plan 9 in flash, and it was not new then. backwards compatible replacement for 9load. Great. the code is there, we're waiting for you to finish it. ron
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:20 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: I really don't understand why, from home or work, I can't download this thing... cf819b70c90cedc39e305fb57d38f5df37302f84 Is the checksum I'm getting. that's the same checksum i posted. i guess i don't understand the problem. the file size is 88153831. Yeah, I realized that after I posted I sent the wrong checksum. e4441484b67be72ad0fd62cc828052f6 9atom.iso.bz2 is what I got. When I download via a web browser it gets to the last bit of the data, and craps out. When I use an ftp client, it claims it is complete, but then gets the wrong checksum. I'm totally baffled. Is there somewhere else I can try to pull this from? no alternate locations. sorry. - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
Yeah, I realized that after I posted I sent the wrong checksum. e4441484b67be72ad0fd62cc828052f6 9atom.iso.bz2 is what I got. that's the proper md5sum. i posed the sha1sum. maybe i didn't make that clear. - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
It has not been a problem for anyone I know. It might not be perfect or beautiful, but I have yet to hear any suggestion for a replacement that has all the advantages of 9fat (simple, reliable, easily accessible from other systems, etc.) I think easily accessible from other systems should be removed from the list. There are alternatives, such as booting a live cd. Many other operating systems also keep their kernels on native filesystems and do not suffer because of it. uriel Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/
Re: [9fans] 9P on android
On Thu, 2009-08-27 at 10:24 -0700, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: because there can only be one outstanding request -- with continuous polling. Unless I misunderstood you, this is not quite true. You can have as many outstanding requests as you have XMLHTTPRequest objects. And, of course, you can do AJAX Push using various techniques. So it really is not all that different, except that you have to strip the HTTP envelope. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
It has not been a problem for anyone I know. It might not be perfect or beautiful, but I have yet to hear any suggestion for a replacement that has all the advantages of 9fat (simple, reliable, easily accessible from other systems, etc.) I think easily accessible from other systems should be removed from the list. There are alternatives, such as booting a live cd. Many other operating systems also keep their kernels on native filesystems and do not suffer because of it. i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
9null (the project we're talking about) doesn't require any of it, but allows it. you can have a fat partition with plan9.ini and, say, 9pcf. but it can't reside at the very beginning of the disk. in fact, you should be able to have plan9.ini and kernels anywhere you want: fossil, kfs, ext2, iso9660, c. the Plan 9 slice layout used by 9null is: sector 0: pbs sector 1: Plan 9 partition table sector 2..k: 9pcload kernel sector k..n: data is there a 9pxenull? that is a PXE-loadable 9null. all machines here except the auth and file servers PXE boot. - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:59 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: Yeah, I realized that after I posted I sent the wrong checksum. e4441484b67be72ad0fd62cc828052f6 9atom.iso.bz2 is what I got. that's the proper md5sum. i posed the sha1sum. maybe i didn't make that clear. - erik argh... :-(
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:38 PM, erik quanstromquans...@quanstro.net wrote: It has not been a problem for anyone I know. It might not be perfect or beautiful, but I have yet to hear any suggestion for a replacement that has all the advantages of 9fat (simple, reliable, easily accessible from other systems, etc.) I think easily accessible from other systems should be removed from the list. There are alternatives, such as booting a live cd. Many other operating systems also keep their kernels on native filesystems and do not suffer because of it. i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. as i said early in this thread, with 9null you kernel may live in any fs you like as long as Plan 9 has can read it.
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:41 PM, erik quanstromquans...@quanstro.net wrote: 9null (the project we're talking about) doesn't require any of it, but allows it. you can have a fat partition with plan9.ini and, say, 9pcf. but it can't reside at the very beginning of the disk. in fact, you should be able to have plan9.ini and kernels anywhere you want: fossil, kfs, ext2, iso9660, c. the Plan 9 slice layout used by 9null is: sector 0: pbs sector 1: Plan 9 partition table sector 2..k: 9pcload kernel sector k..n: data is there a 9pxenull? that is a PXE-loadable 9null. all machines here except the auth and file servers PXE boot. i didn't take a look at pxe booting yet, but i'd be happy to have it working. iru
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. Can you explain the VM solutions point further? The current plan 9 install CD is already a live CD. I don't imagine this places an extra burden on whoever maintains it. Once you have a live CD that works with your system (ie. the same one you installed with), you don't really need to update it unless you change to a new filesystem not supported by the CD. - erik Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition from os's other than plan9. The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) I booted the plan9 live cdrom. I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. -Steve
[9fans] The CW font with Lucidasans
Mixing \f(CW with '.FP lucidasans' results in text that is wildly out of proportion. To my eye, the CW font needs to be scaled down by about 1.5 points to visually match the surrounding text (at the -ms default point size). I'm curious if this has annoyed anyone else enough that they've come up with a work-around. --lyndon
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Steve Simonst...@quintile.net wrote: 9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition from os's other than plan9. The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) I booted the plan9 live cdrom. I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. that's just what 9null is: new pbs, 9pcload (bootstrap kernel), /boot/boot using rc(1) scripts. instead of a 'root from' you may get a 'kernel is at' prompt to which you can ask for a shell (!rc) iru
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
Nice work! I think this is great! Thanks for your efforts. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 15:05, Iruata Souzairu.mu...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Steve Simonst...@quintile.net wrote: 9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition from os's other than plan9. The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) I booted the plan9 live cdrom. I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. that's just what 9null is: new pbs, 9pcload (bootstrap kernel), /boot/boot using rc(1) scripts. instead of a 'root from' you may get a 'kernel is at' prompt to which you can ask for a shell (!rc) iru -- Christopher Nielsen They who can give up essential liberty for temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. --Benjamin Franklin
[9fans] dformat
Anybody have a copy of dformat online? For the 4th time I've lost mine, and I don't relish typing it in yet again from the Labs TR ... --lyndon
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 07:05:31PM -0300, Iruata Souza wrote: that's just what 9null is: new pbs, 9pcload (bootstrap kernel), /boot/boot using rc(1) scripts. instead of a 'root from' you may get a 'kernel is at' prompt to which you can ask for a shell (!rc) Thank you for doing this. I worked years ago to add El Torito and uncommon floppy formats to Grub just to realize that adding fs drivers, ethernet drivers, shell like scripting we were just reinventing the wheel i.e. a kernel, that was never efficient enough to recover a system when there was a problem, and generally too complex for normal use when it was just booting as usual. It is simpler to be fs agnostic and load a sequence of sectors. (Just as a note, there was at some time a tarfs with some BSD to have a kind of organized stream of sectors. No incentive or whatever, just a note about the same kind of principles or tracks followed somewhere else.) Cheers, -- Thierry Laronde (Alceste) tlaronde +AT+ polynum +dot+ com http://www.kergis.com/ Key fingerprint = 0FF7 E906 FBAF FE95 FD89 250D 52B1 AE95 6006 F40C
Re: [9fans] dformat
Anybody have a copy of dformat online? http://www.troff.org/source.html -Steve
Re: [9fans] The CW font with Lucidasans
I usually add these to my document .FP lucidasans .de EX .SM .CW .DS .. .de EE .DE .R .LG .. And then use .EX and .EE around code examples (concept lifted from the man macros). This is from memory, its probably more pedantic/verbose than necessary, but it works. -Steve
Re: [9fans] dformat
Sweet -- thanks! (That wasn't there the last three times ...) ---BeginMessage--- Anybody have a copy of dformat online? http://www.troff.org/source.html -Steve ---End Message---
Re: [9fans] The CW font with Lucidasans
And then use .EX and .EE around code examples (concept lifted from the man macros). For offset code CW seems fine. My problem involves imbedding CW inline. E.g. .TS tab(#); l0w(.1i) l0w(.1i) lw(.1i) l . \...#/##Message store root. #/1##A message in the root folder. #/2##\f2Ibid.\fP #/stuff#/#Subfolder \f(CW\s-1stuff\s0\fP under the root folder. #/stuff#/!index#The metadata cache for the subfolder \f(CW\s-1stuff\s0\fP. #/stuff#/29#A message in subfolder \f(CW\s-1stuff\s0\fP. #/stuff#/42#\0\0\0... and another. #/stuff#/more/...#Subfolder \f(CW\s-1stuff/more\s0\fP. .TE Without the \s-1 CW is way out of whack proportionally, due to its large x-height. Shrinking by a point (as above) still looks out of whack, but it's less likely to make me barf. Fractional point size changes would be nice, but what I really want here is the ability to add a global scaling factor to a specific font (position). --lyndon
[9fans] porting bison y files to ape
Anybody have notes in porting bison based .y? fgb's links browser port seems to simply discard bison generated code. thanks fernan -- http://www.fernski.com
Re: [9fans] porting bison y files to ape
Andrey ported links, I ported lynx once though On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:12 PM, Fernan Bolandofernanbola...@mailc.net wrote: Anybody have notes in porting bison based .y? fgb's links browser port seems to simply discard bison generated code. thanks fernan -- http://www.fernski.com -- Federico G. Benavento
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
the problem comes when you just can't boot the CD! last month when erik and I got Plan 9 booting on this machine it was really convenient just to be able to copy 9load to a fat partition while I was running windows, reboot and see if it worked, I didn't even tried to load a kernel at that point because 9load didn't even see the disks. so, yes, 9fat helped, not because the kernel or Plan 9 lived there but because I could just copy the loader (9load) really fast. I talked some weeks ago about this with iru, because I really didn't see the point in getting rid of 9fat. I could achieve the same as I did by doing copy 9load E: on windows with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux on that live cd as well, if I got it right. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Tim Newshamnews...@lava.net wrote: i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. Can you explain the VM solutions point further? The current plan 9 install CD is already a live CD. I don't imagine this places an extra burden on whoever maintains it. Once you have a live CD that works with your system (ie. the same one you installed with), you don't really need to update it unless you change to a new filesystem not supported by the CD. - erik Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ -- Federico G. Benavento
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
I solved this by deleting everything for the fat partition (which was a fat16lba, not a 9fat) and then copy the files in the right order all this done in vista it worked On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Steve Simonst...@quintile.net wrote: 9fat is also a pain in that the 9load file must be created with, and retain its append only file, which has a special meaning to 9fat telling it to create the file in sequential blocks. This could (and has) caused problems if you access the 9fat partition from os's other than plan9. The only times I have had to change plan9.ini from somthing else than the booted system (because I have broken the boot process) I booted the plan9 live cdrom. I would be happy if 9load and 9fat disappeared and it was replaced with a plan9 bootstrap kernel and (say) an rc(1) script. -Steve -- Federico G. Benavento
Re: [9fans] Getting printing to work over ethernet
It's not documented in a manual page, I think you have to read /sys/doc/lp.*, section 4.
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
I solved this by deleting everything for the fat partition (which was a fat16lba, not a 9fat) and then copy the files in the right order all this done in vista it worked i believe io.sys in dos must be contiguous, too. http://www.csulb.edu/~murdock/format.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IO.SYS http://support.microsoft.com/kb/66530/en-us i had always wondered why plan9.ini was the way it is. i had not realized that it is compatable with config.sys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CONFIG.SYS does anyone know the reason for this? - erik
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
Nothing prevents anyone from using 9fat or building on or changing iruatas work. It is there so go forth and hack. What is nice is his new pbs goes to 32 bit mode right away so hacking is easier than before. Ron On 8/27/09, Federico G. Benavento benave...@gmail.com wrote: the problem comes when you just can't boot the CD! last month when erik and I got Plan 9 booting on this machine it was really convenient just to be able to copy 9load to a fat partition while I was running windows, reboot and see if it worked, I didn't even tried to load a kernel at that point because 9load didn't even see the disks. so, yes, 9fat helped, not because the kernel or Plan 9 lived there but because I could just copy the loader (9load) really fast. I talked some weeks ago about this with iru, because I really didn't see the point in getting rid of 9fat. I could achieve the same as I did by doing copy 9load E: on windows with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux on that live cd as well, if I got it right. On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Tim Newshamnews...@lava.net wrote: i have found it convienent to be able to update a kernel from linux, osx, windows. i would imagine this is important for vm solutions, too. do you think it's preferable to build a live cd for this including the little bit prepared in another os? i've found live cds to be pretty annoying to maintain. Can you explain the VM solutions point further? The current plan 9 install CD is already a live CD. I don't imagine this places an extra burden on whoever maintains it. Once you have a live CD that works with your system (ie. the same one you installed with), you don't really need to update it unless you change to a new filesystem not supported by the CD. - erik Tim Newsham http://www.thenewsh.com/~newsham/ -- Federico G. Benavento -- Sent from my mobile device
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
hola, Nothing prevents anyone from using 9fat or building on or changing iruatas work. It is there so go forth and hack. I really don't get this, I didn't criticize iru's work, I was just pointing how being able to put the loader in a fat partition was convenient to me, just that. -- Federico G. Benavento
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:08 PM, Federico G. Benaventobenave...@gmail.com wrote: I really don't get this, I didn't criticize iru's work, I was just pointing how being able to put the loader in a fat partition was convenient to me, just that. I did not take it that way. Your point is a very important one. Thanks ron
Re: [9fans] new 9atom.iso
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Federico G. Benaventobenave...@gmail.com wrote: I could achieve the same as I did by doing copy 9load E: on windows with this new approach, but I'd need to boot some linux live CD and dd my way out to put the new loader there which I'll be too hacky and I'd probably need a version of prepdisk for linux on that live cd as well, if I got it right. yep, this is a good point. It's the same reason that Peter Anvin argued against using linux as a boot loader in place of grub or pxe or whatever. There are simple standards on booting PCs, and if you conform to them, you are more going to work in all cases. If you don't conform to them, there are more cases where you can't work. Your Vista example is a good case study. So the FAT partition is good when you want to interoperate. But as you point out, it's kind of 1/2 of a real fat partition, which means sometimes, even if it looks ok in vista or whatever, it's not really ok. It's not really possible to fit a true FAT file system handler in a 512 byte pbs. The Plan 9 pbs (and I assume most of them) are really a find a file by name, get the offset, and just start loading contiguous data form whatever is at that offset in the partition until done. That's why there are things like install_grub, or lilo, or other such tools. If you delete and replace 9load and it ends up discontiguous, well, you may not be able to boot, hence the need to sometimes remove and replace all the files in the FAT. There are a number of reasons to like using a plan 9 kernel to boot your machine: drivers, native file systems, and so on. Interoperation with vista is not one of them. It may well be in the long term that the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable. But 9null is a pretty interesting experiment, all things considered. And, it's there to hack. Grab the code and have it, maybe make it better or fit what you want better or show us all a better way to do things. ron
