Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?
My daily mouse is a Logitech 3-button mouse plugged into a PS2-USB adapter. Obviously they're not making them anymore but I've managed to acquire a bunch over the years. It's sturdy and works fine. https://www.ebay.com/itm/384628597228 john Original Message On Jan 27, 2022, 7:48 PM, Ben Hancock wrote: > Hi all, > > Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good > mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations > aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be > willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth > of options that have a true middle button these days. > > I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs > that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it > feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently > tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews > that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice > mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer. > > Many thanks in advance! > > - Ben -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T49f3cceea70d2b61-Me6267ae93db353cea06eb904 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Transfer of Plan 9 to the Plan 9 Foundation
Richard Miller being in this very thread, you could presumably get him to say "I declare that the old bcm kernel found in the p9f code is OK to be redistributed under the MIT license" and be done with it. Or declare the opposite, and the p9f can remove the kernel from the source. As for what to do about a hypothetical patch rewriting a kernel function that someone mailed to Bell Labs in 2003, well, I don't know. john On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 10:38 AM wrote: > > Nobody is disgruntled (that we know about). The code under discussion > in Richard Miller's contributed bcm kernel. > > Arnold > > Jeremy Jackins wrote: > > > Seems to me that there is always going to be some non-zero risk of lawsuits > > when making a change like this, but clearly the foundation was comfortable > > with the risk. So what's the point of this discussion? Who are these > > disgruntled contributors you are speaking on behalf of? > > > > On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 09:34, wrote: > > > > > > It’s all the code that everyone is using. > > > > The issue is that there is some code in Plan 9 not written at > > > > Bell Labs which doesn't explicitly specify any license. > > > > > > What actual code are you reffering to? > > > -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tf20bce89ef96d4b6-Mf8325a99de066810ea9ebe8c Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?
On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 10:47 AM Russ Cox wrote: > > On March 29, 2021, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: > > OK - wasn't kenc ported to Linux for bootstrapping the early > Go compilers? Is that version general, or not worth my trying to use? > > > The early Go compilers, written in C, were compiled with gcc or clang. > > The Plan 9 C compiler was used for the Go runtime's initial > C implementation, but in that context it was only dealing > with the self-contained demands of Go itself, not arbitrary C code > (no standard C library, much of which gawk would need). > > Even in that limited context, we spent a frustrating (non-zero) > amount of time stumbling over bugs. > Standard C has moved on, and the Plan 9 C compilers have not kept up. > They're still fine for Plan 9 C code, but given the choice > I wouldn't throw anything else at them. > > Best, > Russ > 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink Years back I spent some time getting the 9k kernel compiling with Go's C compilers. It's been a long time so I don't remember everything I had to do, but it wasn't a straight-across change and we ended up deciding that since the Go compilers were being maintained specifically to compile Go, it wouldn't be a good idea to hitch our wagon to them lest they make some Go-focused changes which break our stuff. john -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T4d77cc95ab4ed70c-Ma6467d9eedaa83ac761e35da Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] p9f.org https times out
It's been quite responsive over http; I think the main issue is that people automatically write "https" in links these days and I'm not sure p9f.org ever had HTTPS set up. I remember trying it weeks back when Ron first announced it, wasn't able to connect with HTTPS back then either. john On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 8:29 AM wrote: > > Quoth Ethan Gardener : > > https://p9f.org/ isn't responding; "The connection has timed out" according > > to Firefox. I've tried a few times in the last 15 minutes. > I have a mirror running here if you need it > ; 9fs fulton.software > ; cd /n/fulton.software/mirror/p9f -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T796b84dd486b2892-M1aa2e6a074e37ed28f79e694 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] [RQ]: plan9 native 1920x1200 VGA recommendation
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 11:57 PM, Andy Spencer andy753...@gmail.com wrote: On 2013-03-18 12:09, Peter A. Cejchan wrote: could anyone recommend (personal experience would be nice) a VGA card that can support 1920x1200 mode on native Plan 9 from Bell Labs (from Bell Labs ;-) ? I used to use a Dell M70 laptop with a 1920x1200 display. It had an Nvidia Quadro FX Go 1400 card which worked just fine with Plan 9. It's been years since I used it, but I remember I had to boot the laptop in Linux and dump the modeline out of X somehow. I don't remember the specifics on how to do that, but then I just pasted it into vgadb and set the options in plan9.ini and everything worked great. I doubt it will help anyone, but here are the settings I used: plan9.ini: | monitor=dellm70 | vgasize=1920x1200x32 vgadb: | dellm70=1920x1200x32 | clock=162 | shb=2020 ehb=2108 ht=2160 | vrs=1201 vre=1204 vt=1250 | hsync=+ vsync=+ Here's the process I used to moderate success: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/adding_a_monitor_to_vgadb/ Worked with a Syncmaster 240T, which was 1920x1200. john
Re: [9fans] ANTS: Better in every single way than standard plan 9. Stop using p9p.
Look. I'm sorry nobody commented when you posted your software. I'm sorry you and Eric et al. were working on sorta similar things at the same time. But can you cut it out with the fucking nuclear meltdowns all over this list? And fix your email client so it replies to threads properly? john On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 6:28 AM, mycrof...@sphericalharmony.com wrote: OK I can see I have not made myself clear in any way. MY SOFTWARE MAKES PLAN NINE BETTER MY SOFTWARE FIXES HUGE NUMBERS OF PLAN NINE PROBLEMS MY SOFTWARE IS EXACTLY WHAT ROB PIKE AND CREW SHOULD HAVE MADE PLAN NINE DO ALREADY IF YOU THINK THIS IS WRONG I CHALLENGE YOU TO USE ANTS IN A SERIOUS WAY AND IF YOU DO NOT THINK IT IMPROVES PLAN NINE I WILL PAYPAL YOU FIFTY BUCKS OFFER GOOD FOR THE FIRST FIVE RESPONDENTS CONDITIONS: YOU MUST SCREENSHOT COMPLETING ALL FIVE TUTORIALS THEN TELL ME ANTS SUCKS THEN I PAYPAL YOU FIFTY BUCKS THAT EASY Ben Kidwell mycroftiv
Re: [9fans] The PATENTED IBM MULTI-PIPE : the evolution of unix pipes
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: Here's the original iosrv/hub announcement: http://9fans.net/archive/2009/07/278 So what's the real difference between iosrv/hubfs and MULTI-PIPES? Is anyone here good enough at translating patentese to code to tell what the technical differences are? The patent even specifically mentions 9P. khm The primary difference is that the multi-pipes patent is probably shorter than that announcement. I probably didn't read the iosrv and hubfs stuff well enough, but multi-pipes are not like gnu screen--unless hubfs and/or iosrv can do barriers and reduces and I just missed that part? john
Re: [9fans] The PATENTED IBM MULTI-PIPE : the evolution of unix pipes
On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM, mycrof...@sphericalharmony.com wrote: John Floren wrote: I probably didn't read the iosrv and hubfs stuff well enough, but multi-pipes are not like gnu screen--unless hubfs and/or iosrv can do barriers and reduces and I just missed that part? The connection to screen is really only in usage. Iosrv and Hubfs were the result of trying to give myself persistent rc shells in Plan 9. Because of the absence of the TTY layer, it seemed like the thing to do was to buffer and multiplex each file descriptor of a shell, and allow multiple clients to connect to those buffers. Even though this architecture was created for keeping persistent rc shells around, I realized that it was actually a very beautiful general purpose extension of the original unix pipes, and could be used for a large number of purposes, including cluster processing type applications. So the connection to screen is not technical at all - just that the main purpose I wrote iosrv/hubfs for (and btw hubfs is vastly superior to iosrv for practical use if anyone is interested) was to keep persistent rc shells around on remote machines for analogous usage to screen. Anyway, I think multipipes/hubs/pipemuxers are just a good idea for Plan 9 (and probably standard unixes too) and that they fit beautifully with 9P and the whole system. I'd like to move forward with trying to make good Plan 9 software and not have this particular little patent kerfuffle turn into anything majorly disruptive. Ben Kidwell mycroftiv -Who would rather go back to trying to explain ANTS and hoping that other Plan 9 users would take an interest and explore it. Well, you made it a kerfuffle, and then somebody decided to post it to HN, so well done that. If you come in saying Oh look somebody made a patent but I think this is prior art, expect a kerfuffle. (That's a good word. Kerfuffle) Looking through my mail archives, I found a link from Eric that led me to http://graverobbers.blogspot.com/search/label/brasil which I think contains the seeds of multi-pipes. Note that these were all posted prior to your time-traveling expedition. john
[9fans] what are people using for IRC these days
So, while my IRC bouncer runs on my Plan 9 server, I've been connecting to it using Linux and Windows clients. Now that I've got my rpi set up with a nice monitor and everything, I'm looking at IRC on Plan 9 again. What clients are people using these days? I remember using something in Acme that posted a file in /srv, supported multiple channels, etc., but also tended to gobble up a lot of cpu time when I'd start a new instance of the client. Server authentication would be useful for authenticating to my bouncer too. john
Re: [9fans] Acme/Mail with plan9ports in Mac OS
This is just a guess, but what does your $PATH look like? On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Rubén Berenguel ru...@mostlymaths.net wrote: Hi everyone, I'm trying (just for the sake of getting it to work!) to read my (imap) mail via acme from plan9ports. I got the mail file server started in my namespace (I can 9p ls mail and see my folders in INBOX for my work account, but I can't get gmail to work... Probably needs TLS support and if I understood correctly, plan9port does not have TLS yet.) Problem is, if I middle-click on Mail in the main tag in Acme, I am greeted by: Mail: exit 1 No mail for ruben ruben is my local user name, which is different from my imap login name. Looks like Mail is executing the mail command instead of using Acme/Mail. How can I get Acme/Mail to understand where to fetch mail? I thought it would be automatic, getting it via the mail file server but looks like it doesn't. Oh, I have the plumber (and factotum) also running, both seem to be working correctly (at least I can plumb things and they work.) Any suggestions? Thanks, Ruben Berenguel
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 ARM questions
xcpu is cool, but it doesn't really have anything to do with either of his questions besides being generally related to HPC. I don't see why you couldn't make linuxemu portable, Ron did something similar to run CNK binaries on Bluegene. john On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Bence Fábián beg...@gmail.com wrote: maybe it would be worthwhile to look into XCPU: http://xcpu.sourceforge.net/ 2013/3/8 Paolo P. Martino pa...@mudrast.info Hello all, I am studying for a MSc in High Performance Computing at the Edinburgh University, UK. As part of my dissertation project, I was thinking to use Plan 9 as compute node for ARM-based clusters. My idea is to port the ideas of Plan 9 on Bluegene to ARM. I have a couple of questions: 1) How is the status of linuxemu? Does it work only on x86 or is it portable? This because of MPI/OpenMP/FORTRAN widely used in High Performance Computing. 2) Is someone already working to port Plan 9 on Exynos5/Cortex A15 processors? I'm still checking with my university if I can use this project also for the GSoC 2013. Thank you for your time, Paolo P. Martino
Re: [9fans] new fork?
On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:36 PM, hiro 23h...@gmail.com wrote: http://plan10.tumblr.com/ I'll set up the wiki
Re: [9fans] c compiler bug
I think his mail client is just too world-class, breathtaking, amazing, and fabulous--have you tried it? On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:13 AM, hiro 23h...@gmail.com wrote: can you please stop sending html mails? thanks On 2/21/13, Comeau At9Fans comeauat9f...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.comwrote: On 18 February 2013 13:02, Comeau At9Fans comeauat9f...@gmail.com wrote: seems to be doing is setting up allowing the call to compile and once that is satisfied then the subsequent definition has to match it, as perhaps a way to do type punning. No, the compiler is simply applying scope rules. Without that inner declaration explicitly overriding the outer declaration--whether static or extern is used-- it will not compile (eg, if you put static void fn(Outer*); or extern void fn(Outer*); and remove static from fn in the file scope). The behaviour is undefined in ANSI C if two declarations that refer to the same object or function do not have compatible types (normally, you're protected by another rule that you can't have incompatible declarations *in the same scope*). ANSI C does, however, forbid the inner static declaration (which surprised me) The declaration of an identifier for a function that has block scope shall have no explicit storage-class specifier other than extern. (6.7.1) We're probably saying the same thing. As you say ANSI C forbids it hence my comment about normally a diagnostic from a so-called mainstream compiler. And as you say without a declaration it would not compile either. The declaration should normally be in global scope (it could have been), which would have also produced a diagnostic since Inner/Outer don't match. That leaves the declaration where Eric showed it, which the Plan 9 compiler obviously allowed. As you note the net effect is it's undefined (if we're using ANSI C as the metric) hence created a kind of type pun (even if the original code did it as a mistake). -- Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta! Comeau C/C++ ONLINE == http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90. Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
Re: [9fans] c compiler bug
On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Comeau At9Fans comeauat9f...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 1:39 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Thu Feb 21 13:23:26 EST 2013, j...@jfloren.net wrote: I think his mail client is just too world-class, breathtaking, amazing, and fabulous--have you tried it? On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:13 AM, hiro 23h...@gmail.com wrote: can you please stop sending html mails? thanks why does this bother anybody? i hadn't even noticed, and i use nedmail to read my mail. which is somewhat of an admission of failure. i used to just bring up my mail box in acme until google started base64ing heavily. which is oddly another admission of defeat. after 40 years of trying, we still don't have 8-bit clean email. It's just gmail, perhaps my own admission of failure? :) Gmail has interesting ideas sometimes about when it should send HTML. I seem to have figured out how to make it always send plain-text, but unfortunately I can't remember how exactly I did that. john
Re: [9fans] going too far?
go clean does the same thing on Linux under strace, reading the headers from all the .go files of each package's dependencies. I have included the strace output of strace -e open -f go clean github.com/floren/ellipsoid below. The help for the command says Clean removes object files from package source directories., so I'm guessing it's also going through and cleaning the dependencies of the target. open(/etc/ld.so.cache, O_RDONLY) = 3 open(/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0, O_RDONLY) = 3 open(/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6, O_RDONLY) = 3 open(/proc/stat, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 Process 3345 attached (waiting for parent) Process 3345 resumed (parent 3344 ready) [pid 3344] open(/proc/sys/net/core/somaxconn, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/home/john/mygo/src/github.com/floren/ellipsoid, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/home/john/mygo/src/github.com/floren/ellipsoid/ellipsoid.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/home/john/mygo/src/github.com/floren/ellipsoid/ellipsoid_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/doc.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/export_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/fmt_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/format.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/print.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/scan.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/scan_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/stringer_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/errors, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/errors/errors.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/errors/errors_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/errors/example_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/alg.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/append_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/arch_amd64.h, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/asm_amd64.s, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/atomic_amd64.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/cgocall.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/cgocall.h, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/chan.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/chan_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/closure_amd64.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/closure_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/compiler.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/complex.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/cpuprof.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/debug.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs1_linux.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs2_linux.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs_arm_linux.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs_linux.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs_linux_amd64.h, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/error.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/export_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/extern.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/float.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/gc_test.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/hashmap.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/hashmap.h, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/iface.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/lock_futex.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/lock_sema.c, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/malloc.h, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/malloc1.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/mallocrand.go, O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3 [pid 3344] open(/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/mallocrep.go,
Re: [9fans] ppxeload nix
On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Benjamin Huntsman bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu wrote: i think this is active any longer So what is the current official location to obtain the amd64 Plan 9? Depends who you ask. When the google code repo dropped out of use, http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html became a good place to get the source. There are other forks too, such as Erik's 9atom which distributes basically the same source as you can find on lsub.org (because he wrote a lot of the patches for the lsub fork) john
Re: [9fans] iwp9 2013 dates set
On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 11:28:34AM -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: 31 Oct - 2 Nov 2013 http://iwp9.org - erik cfp.pdf is a 404, and it says the registration deadline is in 2011. Is commuting to this location from Atlanta feasible? It's a pretty long drive from Atlanta to Athens. Get a hotel in Athens, or use Airbnb, or something, or else you'll spend 2+ hours a day hating yourself as you sit in traffic. john
[9fans] PBSR...EI
I've been trying to install Plan 9 on a previously-untried system. When I put in the install disc and try to boot, I only see PBSR...EI and then nothing else. I've seen this with the Bell Labs CD and both 9legacy images. I have an old 9atom disc that gets farther, booting into the actual kernel and getting as far as printing out how much memory is available and where it is allocated. I have not tried a more recent 9atom disc yet because it takes too long to download. Has anyone else run into this? Is it something to do with the new bootloaders? I've seen it on several other motherboards lately and don't remember ever seeing it when I last installed from CD (about 2 years ago). John
Re: [9fans] PBSR...EI
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:52 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote: Has anyone else run into this? Is it something to do with the new bootloaders? I've seen it on several other motherboards lately and don't remember ever seeing it when I last installed from CD (about 2 years ago). fwiw, i never saw that with 9load. if you don't mind downloading overnight, there's a new 9atom. i added cinap's aml interperter to the pc kernel. - erik I'm about an hour and a half into downloading 9atom, with about a half hour to go. I'll probably be able to report on my progress tomorrow. Have you ever considered hosting the iso on a faster server? It's kind of harsh to wait 2 hours every time there's an update. john
Re: [9fans] PBSR...EI
On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:54 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: I'm about an hour and a half into downloading 9atom, with about a half hour to go. I'll probably be able to report on my progress tomorrow. Have you ever considered hosting the iso on a faster server? It's kind of harsh to wait 2 hours every time there's an update. the server is willing, but the network is weak. ☺ i'm evaluating some options now. unfortunately, they're not cheap. at least the (older) new tcp help out a bit. - erik Ok, 9atom gets into the proper Plan 9 kernel but sticks at: 896M memory: 256M kernel data, 639M user, 0M swap
Re: [9fans] big endian plan 9 machine?
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:48 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Sun Jan 13 13:45:52 EST 2013, charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: Blue Gene hard to fit in the basement. - erik I don't know about the /Q's A2 processors, but you could at one point buy PPC440 development boards, which were very handy.
Re: [9fans] big endian plan 9 machine?
On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Richard Miller 9f...@hamnavoe.com wrote: Blue Gene hard to fit in the basement. How about an ipengine (mpc823)? I've got one gathering dust here. I caution against working on any hardware which can no longer be purchased new (sparc32, alpha), it's just pouring time/money down a hole. Sparc64 appears to still be available, although only as expensive server hardware? john
[9fans] a disk filesystem for both Plan 9 and Linux?
I'd like to be able to use a disk in both Plan 9 and Linux. FAT seems to have some issues with sufficiently large partitions, so that's out. Plan9Port doesn't have fossil in the repo, although I've found patches. ext2srv may be an option, but I have no idea how reliable it would actually be. Am I missing any options for filesystems that are supported by both Linux and Plan 9? Can anyone comment on the reliability/usefulness of ext2srv? john
Re: [9fans] a disk filesystem for both Plan 9 and Linux?
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:24 PM, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: i think fat is still the best option, even tho it has these limitations. virtually every operating system can deal with fat, and the implementations are robust and tolerant to errors because they are pretty much expected. ext2srv doesnt support jurnaling. -- cinap Someone mentioned that 9front has a 32-bit FAT implementation, is that right? If so, it would probably be the best contender. john
Re: [9fans] a disk filesystem for both Plan 9 and Linux?
On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:52 PM, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: dossrv always had fat32 support. you'r probably refering to disk/format, 9bootfat and pbs which do support fat32 now in 9front. -- cinap Thanks, you're entirely right, I was thinking of disk/format. john
Re: [9fans] 9atom
On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Rox 64 mrox...@gmail.com wrote: It seems I don't need aux/realemu and aux/vga at all to boot rio, it can run with monitor=vesa and vgasize=640x480x8 in plan9.ini. I still haven't found out how to run in 1024x738 with vesa, through, will check if it can run at least at 800x600 with the vga command as you said. aux/vga and aux/mouse are being called by the startup scripts in that case. Erik just posted the variable declarations and command calls which end up being made from plan9.ini and the startup scripts--you'll only need to use them if you've misconfigured plan9.ini. john
Re: [9fans] 9atom
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Rox 64 mrox...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe should I try 9front instead? I read they made a new bootloader to fix that issue. The PC kernel is also (supposed to be) multiboot-compliant, so you should be able to boot it with GRUB if that helps. You just have to build the kernel as an ELF file. This means, of course, that you'll have to make do with default configuration options or hard-code the options, since GRUB doesn't read plan9.ini. john
Re: [9fans] 9atom
On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rox 64 mrox...@gmail.com wrote: I don't really want to deal with ELF binaries and Grub... I will try 9front and if its bootloader works then I will use it against vanilla Plan 9. I merely suggest GRUB because it seems like most of the time, if I can get through 9load, I can boot the system OK, but sometimes 9load won't work on such-and-such hardware and I have to resort to PXE booting, putting the disk in another system to install, whatever. I've found GRUB on a bootable USB stick to be a pretty reliable way to drop you into a 32-bit kernel.
Re: [9fans] 9atom
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:19 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: Is that targeting Intel Atom CPUs? I have an EEEPC sitting so that's a good chance to start using Plan9 in a real environment (non VM). The fact that go is provided is tempting :) originally, the goal was to get atom machines working. that goal was largely met, so the name is somewhat of an anachronism. it's the same set of kernels i run everwhere. i don't know anything about any model of the eeepc. ymmv. there's no go included in 9atom yet, but you should be able to install it with no problems. - erik If you check out the Go source and don't find any build framework for Plan 9, you may need to check out the current repo tip to get it. That's what I did when I installed Go, but it was months ago so YMMV. john
Re: [9fans] 9atom
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Rox 64 mrox...@gmail.com wrote: Hu guys. Will Plan 9/9atom/9front run on a EEE 1005HA? I have that same netbook. One of your big challenges will probably be getting the CDROM to boot in a machine without a CDROM drive. There exist bootable images for USB sticks which contain a full fossil filesystem; you can start the installation from there. In fact, I had made a 32-bit bootable USB stick for Nix about a year ago and included a script to start the installation, I'll see if I can find it. john
Re: [9fans] 9atom
On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 9:26 AM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Rox 64 mrox...@gmail.com wrote: Hu guys. Will Plan 9/9atom/9front run on a EEE 1005HA? I have that same netbook. One of your big challenges will probably be getting the CDROM to boot in a machine without a CDROM drive. There exist bootable images for USB sticks which contain a full fossil filesystem; you can start the installation from there. In fact, I had made a 32-bit bootable USB stick for Nix about a year ago and included a script to start the installation, I'll see if I can find it. john Following up on this, it looks like the scripts I used are still in the NIX distribution. /usr/glenda/mknixboot (based on /rc/bin/mkusbboot) will help you create a bootable USB stick from your NIX tree or, presumably, from a 9atom root. /usr/glenda/bin/rc/startinstall is what you run after booting the USB stick. Hope this helps. John
Re: [9fans] build iso's plan9 for amd64, atom, arm, powerpc
What I think people are trying to say is that this doesn't really make a lot of sense. The AMD64 system doesn't have any installer work done for it at all--I think it's not far off, but to the best of my knowledge nobody has built a CDROM that boots the 64-bit kernel and gives you the installer from there (Erik, have you done this yet?). I've never even SEEN an ARM system with a CD-ROM, and it's uncertain if a given ARM system's bootloader will support booting from a USB CD-ROM drive; it's just not how OSes are installed on ARM! john On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Francesco Cardi cardifrance...@gmail.com wrote: I think the most practical thing is to create an iso based on the specific architecture you have, you have to give me the link, the messages I have written does not give me complete information but they are only concepts, I need documntazione I want to build a iso, do not want to create a combo iso for various things -- Cardi Francesco alias Il Parente Free Software activist CEO/President Movimento Culturale GNU CODICE LIBERO Diaspora*: https://joindiaspora.com/u/ilparente Identi.ca: https://identi.ca/cardifrancesco Jabber: ilpare...@jabber.org
Re: [9fans] iwp9 2013
Evidently decided by the Plan 9 Cabal... sp9sss has competition! Or it came up at Dublin and the rest of us missed it, whichever one :) john On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Matthew Veety mve...@gmail.com wrote: Yes you did.
Re: [9fans] iwp9 2013
It means that the football hooligans will be out of town rather than filling all the hotels and drinking all the beer. I'm told that Athens during a college football game is truly a sight to see. (From a distance. On closed-circuit camera. In a bunker) john On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Aram Hăvărneanu ara...@mgk.ro wrote: What does away game mean? -- Aram Hăvărneanu
Re: [9fans] Attempts to set timezone don't stick?
On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Phineas Pett phineas.p...@gmail.com wrote: Hello List, I'm attempting to setup a native Plan 9 system for the first time, but I'm having a bit of trouble getting the timezone to ``stick.'' Putting the following in my /lib/profile seemed the intuitive and correct thing to do: bind /adm/timezone/US_Central /adm/timezone/local But it does not work, and I don't understand why. I wouldn't expect this to work. According to date(1), /adm/timezone/local is copied into /env/timezone by init, meaning your bind comes far too late. You need to physically copy the file over, and then presumably reboot to get everything set properly. The following also failed: cat /adm/timezone/US_Central /adm/timezone/local Did you reboot after doing this? John
Re: [9fans] Newbie question: I have a plan9 system running on
On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 5:33 AM, keystroke zhangrui0...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not sure whether it's stupid to ask this question here. Maybe it's too easy a question to answer, maybe you think that I am too lazy to post a question before do a good search on google, or read the document offered. But English is not my first language, and it is a ton of words to read in order to just compile some pieces of code. And I got no one to ask, and there are no place where I can ask for help except here. If it's too much to type, just give me some hints to google. Help me, please. Go ahead and ask the question--it looks like you forgot it in your first email! john
Re: [9fans] Kernel panic when allocating a huge memory
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Pavel Klinkovsky pavel.klinkov...@gmail.com wrote: It really seems as a problem with swap. :( this is well known, and solutions are available even if you don't care to use them. Oh, does it mean the official Plan 9 distribution contains non-working swap? :O It is clear I missed something... Sorry for the noise. Pavel Swap has been broken since at least 2005 (my first experiments with Plan 9). Once I stopped trying to compile ghostscript on a 32 MB laptop, I never really had problems with the lack... hell, I did my master's work and most of my personal computing on a laptop with only 1 GB of RAM and no swap for most of 2010, only ran into problems when aptitude decided to calculate a multi-gig dependency graph. Swapping is so painful, please consider buying more RAM. It may be simple to fix the swap code, if you're inclined to do some kernel hacking, because the kernel in general is pleasant to work with. john
Re: [9fans] bell stuff off line ?
Asking the same question 3 times in as many minutes will not get any faster answer john On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:10 AM, kali.m...@web.de wrote: hi, i just tried to get to the plan9 stuff at plan9.bell-labs.com and the google DNS doesnt even resolve the name. i know that it could be hosted somewhere at alcatel-lucent now but cant find anything about plan9 on their site. please tell me they didnt took the complete project with all its great documentation offline :/. maybe im just to stupid to find anything on their site, so , if you know where the whole stuff has gone please give me a link or something. greets kali
Re: [9fans] rc vs sh
On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Matthew Veety mve...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 25, 2012 1:00 PM, Gorka Guardiola pau...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 25, 2012, at 5:08 PM, hiro 23h...@gmail.com wrote: can someone tell me how to speed up poweroff on ubuntu? Pull the cable and or battery. G. Don't use Ubuntu. -- Veety I think that was the joke. john
Re: [9fans] 9grid?
On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Matthew Veety mve...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/23/2012 8:11 PM, Don A. Bailey wrote: Go embeds parallel/grid functionality now instead of just lightweight thread execution? Which packages would you point me at? Thanks, D On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:09 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com mailto:rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Don A. Bailey d...@capitolhillconsultants.com mailto:d...@capitolhillconsultants.com wrote: I'm interested in the code for managing grid nodes and delegating tasks. Real code? talk to charles. Or now that Go works, you could look at some of those packages. ron -- Don A. Bailey CEO/Founding Partner Capitol Hill Consultants LLC 1-303-947-6557 I would avoid using Go on Plan 9 right now for anything production because it has issues when using many concurrent tcp connections. If you do want to use Go, stick with reading and writing files, and let 9P do it's thing. -- Veety Write a basic http server for Plan 9 (in C) and run Apache Benchmark against it. Somewhere around 100 concurrent connections, I tend to get failure. There's code in /sys/src/9/ip that has a hard limit on the # of concurrent connections IIRC. I'd post the code for the server I wrote, but it was written as part of work so I can't. Still, it's not hard to put together a server which responds only to a GET. john
Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop
Precisely. The correlation between what makes something good and what makes something popular is small but negative. One of the primary reasons I stopped using Linux was that it was becoming too mainstream and just like all the commercial junk out there. I too find Linux too mainstream: http://i.imgur.com/Wtm16.png john
Re: [9fans] fossil option -m
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:30 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Sat Aug 18 01:04:53 EDT 2012, aris...@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote: Helo, Plan 9 manual FOSSIL(4) says about fossil/fossil command option -m: -m Allocate free-memory-percent percent of the avail- able free RAM for buffers. This overrides all other memory sizing parameters, notably the -c option to open. How to give memory, for example 25%, to fossil in starting 9pcf or 9pccpuf kernel? I think the value should be enabled to be given in plan9.ini, but I couldn't find in the manual PLAN9.INI(8). if you're using standard plan 9 boot stuff, you'll need to hack boot/local.c right under the /* start fossil */ comment, or fossil itself. personally, i'd lean toward adding an environment variable which could be put into plan9.ini and be the equivalent of -m. - erik You can also use a boot.fs kernel, so you can define the startup in an rc script. Very convenient, I used it to set up our cpu/auth/fileserver to use a Coraid AoE device for Venti. John
[9fans] drawterm to a cpu server without authentication
I'm playing around with booting a cpu kernel in qemu, and I'd like to be able to drawterm to it for testing stuff. However, as it is it seems that I need to specify an auth server. sources.cs.bell-labs.com works, but that's clunky and depending on my networking situation not always an option. Is there a way to boot a cpu server such that it will just accept connections from anyone, without authentication? Sort of like how you can connect to sources as none, except for cpu. john
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 technical docs and man pages - licensed or public domain?
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Andy Elvey andy.el...@paradise.net.nz wrote: Hi Andrey - thanks for your reply! On 25/07/12 14:47, andrey mirtchovski wrote: I'm not a lawyer but I play one in comedy clubs. The first implementation of 9p came about long before Plan 9 had a free (as in rms) license. Nobody got sued, nobody died, although a few bystanders were maimed. Interesting. It's good to find out a bit of the history behind 9p. My advice as your lawyer [in comedy] would be to go nuts and do whatever you want. The documentation[1] is a good place to start if you don't want to look at any source (no license required to see that!), and if you want to cover all corner cases, a running Plan 9 kernel is a good client/server to test against. 1: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/man/5/INDEX.html Thanks for that! I'll check that page out too. Btw - I clicked on the copyright link at the bottom, but the link is dead - nothing but a 404 page error. In looking at Tim Newsham's P9.py, he has a comment in the code - 9P protocol implementation as documented in plan9 intro(5) and fcall.h. ( I would likely be even more cautious and avoid looking at any header files if possible. ) Thanks again, Andrey - you've been very helpful! - Andy Just write the code, nobody cares. The manual pages define an interface, and you're going to implement it. The manual pages are copyrighted, sure, because they're written works and are automatically protected by copyright. Besides the recent Google vs. Oracle fiasco, I can't think of a time an open-source project had legal problems by writing new code to implement an API. And, based on a brief reading of http://www.groklaw.net/pdf3/OraGoogle-1202.pdf, it looks as though a US judge has ruled that an API is not subject to copyright; if you implement the 9P API, you should be fine. Also, since you're doing a free reimplementation of code which is currently available free to everyone by the creators (Lucent), I have a hard time figuring out exactly what basis they'd have for a lawsuit. john
[9fans] higher-end compute server recommendations?
We've got some budget left for hardware, so I'm looking for a server suitable for running Plan 9, preferably as good as I can get for about $3000-5000. Buying non-Thinkpad Plan 9 hardware is kind of a crapshoot, and this isn't just some $100 Atom system, so if any of you are running something along these lines, please let me know. I'd most like to see lots of cores and lots of RAM, I don't even want storage (we've got other methods for storage). Thanks, John
Re: [9fans] higher-end compute server recommendations?
On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 9:58 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Wed Jul 25 00:45:01 EDT 2012, j...@jfloren.net wrote: We've got some budget left for hardware, so I'm looking for a server suitable for running Plan 9, preferably as good as I can get for about $3000-5000. Buying non-Thinkpad Plan 9 hardware is kind of a crapshoot, and this isn't just some $100 Atom system, so if any of you are running something along these lines, please let me know. I'd most like to see lots of cores and lots of RAM, I don't even want storage (we've got other methods for storage). hey, john, i've had incredible luck with intel servers from supermicro for general beat-about servers. just as a quick suggestion, i'd look at this server here. http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/6017/SYS-6017R-WRF.cfm with 8-core socket-r cpus, you can have 32 cores and 128gb of memory without stretching the budget too much. the intel i350 nics work fine, but for something that hot, i'd get a myircom or intel 10gbe adapter. this was just whatever came up in 5 minutes. you might want to look at this page here for more options http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/Xeon_X9_E5.cfm?pg=SS acmemicro.com (fitting, no?) should have the full range of stuff. - erik Thanks for the tip; I just looked at acmemicro and spec'd out a decent-looking 16-core system with 64 GB of RAM for about $4800, so I'll probably end up doing something like that. john
Re: [9fans] Can't mk CONF=9pcdisk -- gives error
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 1:32 AM, Kyle Laracey kalara...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, July 19, 2012 1:48:06 PM UTC-4, John Floren wrote: On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM, erik quanstrom lt;quans...@quanstro.netgt; wrote: gt;gt; But as Federico mentioned, you might not want pcdisk--that#39;s for gt;gt; running with a kfs root, which isn#39;t officially supported any more. If gt;gt; you were looking at the 3e guide, that might explain it. These days, gt;gt; for a terminal, you probably want pcf (pc + fossil). gt; gt; for a terminal, ideally one would be booting off a file server, gt; and have no local storage. gt; gt; but local storage can#39;t be avoided, gt; as i see it, on a standalone terminal, simple, speedy, safe gt; would trump fs features. so kfs can#39;t just be excluded. gt; gt; your tradeoffs may vary. :-) gt; gt; - erik gt; There#39;s certainly reasons for using kfs, but for a new user I#39;d probably recommend fossil simply because the documentation and most 9fans will assume you#39;re using fossil. But yeah, *best* option is to netboot a 9pc kernel, it#39;s lovely to just hit the power button when you#39;re done working. John Wow so do you guys actually netbook Plan9? Where's the central server? where you work / university or something? Or do you just have it set up at your homes? Sounds pretty cool... Here at work, we've got a cpu/auth/file server running fossil and venti off a Coraid storage appliance, sitting in the machine room. We netboot some terminals and a 32-core test server from it. At home, I've got a cpu/auth/file server running on an old Thinkpad, but I generally just drawterm in since 1. it's a hassle to plug yourself into the wired network and 2. I rarely have a netbootable terminal at home. Netbooting is great, though. You can also cheat and install Plan 9 on the disk, but then specify that root is from a remote server, meaning your kernel will boot from the hard drive but after bootup it's basically idle. John
Re: [9fans] Can't mk CONF=9pcdisk -- gives error
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Kyle Laracey kalara...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:17:47 AM UTC-4, Charles Forsyth wrote: 9pcdisk is the output file, not the configuration file. Also you need to quote the = because it is special to rc (assignment). Try/div mk #39;CONF=pcdisk#39; On 19 July 2012 10:07, span dir=ltrlt;a href=mailto:kalara...@gmail.com; target=_blankkalara...@gmail.com/agt;/span wrote: blockquote class=gmail_quote style=margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex `mk CONF=9pcdisk`/blockquote/div /div Oh 9pcdisk is the OUTPUT file! That's odd... I'm following the instructions for compiling in this (http://lsub.org/who/nemo/9.pdf) guide to the plan 9 3ed source code, and on pg 24, it says to do exactly that, mk CONF=9pcdisk. I tried mk 'CONF=pcdisk' and it works. Thanks. But as Federico mentioned, you might not want pcdisk--that's for running with a kfs root, which isn't officially supported any more. If you were looking at the 3e guide, that might explain it. These days, for a terminal, you probably want pcf (pc + fossil). john
Re: [9fans] Can't mk CONF=9pcdisk -- gives error
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: But as Federico mentioned, you might not want pcdisk--that's for running with a kfs root, which isn't officially supported any more. If you were looking at the 3e guide, that might explain it. These days, for a terminal, you probably want pcf (pc + fossil). for a terminal, ideally one would be booting off a file server, and have no local storage. but local storage can't be avoided, as i see it, on a standalone terminal, simple, speedy, safe would trump fs features. so kfs can't just be excluded. your tradeoffs may vary. :-) - erik There's certainly reasons for using kfs, but for a new user I'd probably recommend fossil simply because the documentation and most 9fans will assume you're using fossil. But yeah, *best* option is to netboot a 9pc kernel, it's lovely to just hit the power button when you're done working. John
Re: [9fans] plan9port rio and keyboard shortcuts
On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 2:26 AM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, In p9p's rio there is a possibility to cycle over windows with left_alt-tab. Has anyone thought about / managed to add some more shortcuts, e.g. such that would run a program like dmenu? (Do you start all your programs from a terminal?) Thanks Ruda I put some additional keyboard functionality into w9wm at one point, it's not that hard. Look at /usr/local/plan9/src/cmd/rio/key.c:44, figure out what key presses you want to handle, then do a fork+exec or whatever floats your boat. You might also find 9menu handy, although personally I don't like using it in p9p rio because rio doesn't pass focus clicks through to the client, meaning I have to click twice (annoying). I just use a terminal to start programs. I'm using p9p rio right now, but that's because I cycle through about a half-dozen window managers a year in search of WM nirvana. I love using rio on Plan 9, but I'm not entirely convinced it is best-suited for the way I use Unix. Some day I may write my own WM, but today is not that day. john
Re: [9fans] Mini PCs
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Winston Weinert winst...@lavabit.com wrote: On Sun, 2012-06-10 at 18:19 -0400, Comeau At9Fans wrote: * Raspberry Pi * Cotton Candy * Mele A1000 * MK802 Some other _pricier_ products to consider (and a larger variety of integrated components): * Beagleboard * Beaglebone * Pandaboard * Pico-ITX formfactor x86 motherboard Some of these should work already; /sys/src/9/omap/beagle seems to indicate that you can already boot a beagleboard, for instance. As for anything not based on the supported SoCs, well, until people stop sitting on ass saying boy that would be a nice terminal and actually start PORTING the damn thing, it'll never be more than Yet Another 120-message 9fans Thread. I got the Efika Smarttop through quite a bit of the early boot over the course of an afternoon, before finally getting pissed off at having to re-write an SD card every time I iterated the kernel. It shouldn't be *too* hard to get a minimally functional system, the code in /sys/src/9 is quite good. Oh, there's another thing, for the love of god don't buy a system that can't netboot, it's just not worth it. Or we could ignore all these and, in grand 9fans tradition, start talking about a port to some hardware platform that's been dead for over 5 years. SPARC64 et al are sorta played out by now, but I've got a PDP-11 just sitting around... john
Re: [9fans] dejavu sans
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 2:16 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Mon Jun 11 17:07:15 EDT 2012, mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote: looking for more pleasing fonts I came across dejavu which are downloadable from http://dejavu-fonts.org/wiki/Download [...] coverage is so-so, but there are latin/greek/cyrillic ttfs available too. i didn't try them out. dejavu sans is pretty good. it really is a trick finding decent coverage and a good looking font. good coverage seems to be more important as folks assume unicode. i've been using cyberbit, but it has some holes. it's killer feature is very good hinting at smaller sizes. i keep meaning to teach ttf2subf to break off the subfont at unicode block boundaries to make stiching together fonts easier. - erik Vera (I think from your contrib) works very well for me, I find that it looks good and has good enough coverage for all my uses. The biggest challenge with Plan 9 fonts is getting the heights right; often converted ttfs will have the bottom of g and a lot of the non-ASCII characters cut off at either top or bottom. john
Re: [9fans] Mini PCs
On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Nick LaForge nicklafo...@gmail.com wrote: sadly, the 10/100 ethernet is provided through a flakey usb hub I think the 'cheap arm dev board' bandwagon will always suffer in this regard, since the phones these SoCs were designed for don't even come close to needing gbe Guruplug?
Re: [9fans] Heresy alert, Zerox - Clone
Just when you thought every bikeshed had been painted... On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Lucio De Re lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: (Trolling unintentional) The misspelling of Xerox in Acme has bugged me for a long time. I want to suggest that we change it to Clone. Votes? ++L
Re: [9fans] Heresy alert, Zerox - Clone
On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Calvin Morrison mutanttur...@gmail.com wrote: On 30 May 2012 11:25, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: Or Dop (short for Doppelgänger). dop. dop! make it stop! i can't not will not have a dop! - erik copy? That surely won't be confused with the Snarf functionality at all
Re: [9fans] 9front: Support for encrypted partitions (in development, needs documentation)
9front has a mailing list, that's probably the best place to ask these kind of things. On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Burton Samograd burton.samog...@gmail.com wrote: The features list of 9front has the subject line. How in development is it, and could anybody give a documentation/HOWTO on getting it working (if it does)? -- Burton Samograd
Re: [9fans] Reading gmail
On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:08 PM, s...@9front.org wrote: Is there any way to read gmail from plan9? Over SSL imap maybe? I searched for imapfs but came up with nothing. Mount your gmail account via IMAP: upas/fs -f /imaps/imap.gmail.com/usern...@gmail.com The first time you try this, upas/fs will complain: upas/fs: opening /imaps/imap.gmail.com/usern...@gmail.com: imap.gmail.com/imaps:server certificate HASH not recognized Add the provided certificate to /sys/lib/tls/mail, like so: x509 sha1=HASH Run the upas/fs line again, and this time gmail via IMAP will be mounted in /mail/fs, accessible to the standard mail tools. -sl If you have a large number of messages, Erik's nupas is useful; IIRC it will cache messages locally so you don't have to download a ton of headers each time you start upas. However I've found that with both old upas and nupas, there are some messages that make them choke. Sadly I can't remember what triggered it. john
Re: [9fans] I will buy laptop pre-installed with plan9!!!
A Thinkpad X60 or X61 works great and is very light, too. john On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Burton Samograd burton.samog...@markit.com wrote: Along these lines, is there a recommendation for the best laptop for running plan9? Ie. Native video, working Ethernet/wifi, no hassles with HW compatibility, etc. One every system I've tried there's always been something that has gone wrong, so I'm hoping that the wisdom of this list will direct me towards and fully working version, even if it's not the most modern technology. Thank you. -Original Message- From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net [mailto:9fans-boun...@9fans.net] On Behalf Of Vincent Zhao Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:44 AM To: 9fans@9fans.net Subject: [9fans] I will buy laptop pre-installed with plan9!!! I will buy laptop pre-installed with plan9, can my dream come true? This e-mail, including accompanying communications and attachments, is strictly confidential and only for the intended recipient. Any retention, use or disclosure not expressly authorised by Markit is prohibited. This email is subject to all waivers and other terms at the following link: http://www.markit.com/en/about/legal/email-disclaimer.page Please visit http://www.markit.com/en/about/contact/contact-us.page? for contact information on our offices worldwide.
Re: [9fans] I will buy laptop pre-installed with plan9!!!
I've got one of those with the 1400x1050 display, it runs Plan 9 well, looks great, and has a fantastic screen. john On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:18 PM, s...@9front.org wrote: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X61_Tablet -sl
Re: [9fans] Starting a blog on plan 9
On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:34 AM, IainWS iai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi there! I am trying to get involved more with plan 9 but having some trouble finding resources on it that are all in one place. I have started a blog so that I can add resources to make things more simple for new users, and for the community in general. What do people think about this? You can find the link to this here: http://plan9docs.wordpress.com/ Any feedback would be much appreciated. Could you elaborate on your choice of using sam -d? It does make things easier to translate into a textual blog format, without having to worry about the windows. On the other hand, without the graphical interface, sam is really just a super-enhanced ed(1), which is certainly useful in itself but (in my opinion) not as convenient. You might also consider making some youtube videos if you feel confident enough; I made a few some years back and they were generally well-received by the random youtubers who found them. Just please make sure the things you're talking about are accurate--spreading bad information about Plan 9 is worse than doing nothing :) john
Re: [9fans] new arm port: teg2
Great! Graphics support at this point, or is it still in the cpu server stage? john On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:30 PM, ge...@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: After you pull, you should see a new directory, /sys/src/9/teg2. From the _announce file: This is a preliminary Plan 9 port to the Compulab Trimslice, containing a Tegra 2 SoC: a dual-core, (truly) dual-issue 1GHz Cortex-A9 v7a-architecture ARM system, *and* it comes in a case. VFP 3 floating-point hardware is present, but 5l doesn't yet generate those instructions. This is the first multiprocessor ARM port we've done, and much of the code should be reusable in future ports. There are still things to be done but it can run both processors and is believed to have adequate kernel support for VFP 3 floating-point.
Re: [9fans] Source Code.
On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote: Download the installation image from the website, gunzip, mount the resulting ISO image, then look in mountpoint/sys/src. Easier option: grab http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/extra/plan9.tar.bz2, untar it, look under plan9/sys/src/9 for the kernel source. john
Re: [9fans] AMD64 system
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Strake strake...@gmail.com wrote: On 25/04/2012, Matthew Veety mve...@gmail.com wrote: On Apr 25, 2012 2:27 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote: On 2012-04-25, at 11:04 AM, Strake wrote: Four billion is not enough. Not enough what? This cat's curiosity is raised. Numbers obviously. This. A limit on cryptography, physical simulation, ... which are computation-bound, so bignum arithmetic would be slow. Also logical memory addresses, timestamps, ... Oh, and 8 registers are far too few. If you're doing cryptography and physical simulation, computation bound stuff, why not set up a 64-bit CPU server? I've got one at work, all you should need to do is get the 64-bit binaries on your fileserver. John
Re: [9fans] AMD64 system
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Strake strake...@gmail.com wrote: On 25/04/2012, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: If you're doing cryptography and physical simulation, computation bound stuff, why not set up a 64-bit CPU server? I've got one at work, all you should need to do is get the 64-bit binaries on your fileserver. Then I have a CPU server with very nice on-board sound, and powerful graphics card, both idle, the latter since I have no other machine that can take it, I have no driver, and even if I had, (32 b/pixel)(1920x1080 pixel)(60.0 Hz) = 4 Gb/s network data rate = 1 Gb/s. There are 3 options: 1. Suck it up and use the 64-bit system that is available 2. Write drivers for your hardware (this is the comedy option) 3. Complain on 9fans for a while before eventually giving up (this is the popular option) I don't even know what you're attempting to imply with that calculation at the end, though. What does the onboard graphics card have to do with network bandwidth? If you run a big drawterm/cpu window, it won't be that high of a data rate, and it won't use the graphics card anyway. john
Re: [9fans] AMD64 system
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Strake strake...@gmail.com wrote: On 25/04/2012, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: There are 3 options: 1. Suck it up and use the 64-bit system that is available 2. Write drivers for your hardware (this is the comedy option) 3. Complain on 9fans for a while before eventually giving up (this is the popular option) 4. Keep to Linux and curse the world in wrath. I forgot about #4. We almost all end up going with #4 at some point, to a greater or lesser extent. I'd shut up if no one _asked_ me about it, but some did. You still haven't clarified what exactly you want to do with your 64-bit system, besides win dicksize wars. Reasons for using a 64-bit system include, for example, *needing* more than 4 GB of RAM. If you want to do stuff like Ron and Nemo have done, where you stick your entire filesystem in 64 GB of memory or so, then yeah it's important. On the other hand, I've never had a Plan 9 system with more than 4 GB of RAM, excepting our NIX test box, and everything has been fine--you don't need a lot for this OS! I don't even know what you're attempting to imply with that calculation at the end, though. What does the onboard graphics card have to do with network bandwidth? It doesn't; however graphics are drawn, whether in hardware or software, they must be sent to terminal. If you run a big drawterm/cpu window, it won't be that high of a data rate Through the magic of compression, and other things like realizing that you don't have to redraw the *entire* screen 60 times a second when displaying a mostly-static desktop. You just send the chunks that have changed, *when* they change. and it won't use the graphics card anyway. Then it will be slow. Software graphics are slow. I'm not that familiar with how the Plan 9 graphics system works, but we're not talking about hardware vs software OpenGL. There is no OpenGL to be had here. This is writing bits into a framebuffer and having them appear on the screen. It's pretty damn fast to write things to main memory. john
Re: [9fans] git and (p9p) acme
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg lyn...@orthanc.ca wrote: On 2012-04-25, at 1:36 PM, Russ Cox wrote: What is not obvious about what 'sam file' does? Plugging 'sam file' into a script does not launch the editor with the specified file in a window for the user to edit, and then save out. Works for me... this is what I do when writing commit messages in hg. Sure, you have to go into the right-button menu and open the file window, but it's 2 mouse clicks and I find sam a lot more convenient than acme for this kind of quick edit. What behavior are you seeing? john
Re: [9fans] AMD64 system
On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Strake strake...@gmail.com wrote: On 25/04/2012, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: Through the magic of compression, and other things like realizing that you don't have to redraw the *entire* screen 60 times a second when displaying a mostly-static desktop. You just send the chunks that have changed, *when* they change. And when watching full-screen video, or playing full-screen 3D games? Then it must redraw nearly the whole screen, nearly every frame. I thought you wanted this to do your uber computations, not watch movies? And if you have full-screen 3D games for Plan 9, share! I'm not that familiar with how the Plan 9 graphics system works, but we're not talking about hardware vs software OpenGL. There is no OpenGL to be had here. Not yet. It seems to be in the works: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/todo/index.html This is writing bits into a framebuffer and having them appear on the screen. It's pretty damn fast to write things to main memory. Yes, which works iff the video output is local. This I wrote in response to the idea that I make one machine a 64-bit devoted CPU server, which I doubt would be appropriate for my usage case and available hardware. You still haven't told us your usage case. Wild speculation about what is possible, impossible, desirable, necessary, etc. is cheap on 9fans, I'm sure you've seen that. john
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:26 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself, using a child of Inferno. Yeah, sound like interesting. Can I try this octopus on some of the PC still now? because I didn't do it, and have no idea of this. Whe I tried inferno, I god bad feeling of its gui (sorry all). Kenji I've run Octopus a little bit. It's got an interesting UI (Omero) and some of the features are pretty cool--I ended up being able to cite the Octopus paper in my master's thesis :) I had some trouble with running it at first (O/mero wouldn't start properly, unfortunately I can't recall the error, I think it's in the 9fans archive), but the setup scripts make it pretty simple to configure. John
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 9:07 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:26 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself, using a child of Inferno. Yeah, sound like interesting. Can I try this octopus on some of the PC still now? because I didn't do it, and have no idea of this. Whe I tried inferno, I god bad feeling of its gui (sorry all). Kenji I've run Octopus a little bit. It's got an interesting UI (Omero) and some of the features are pretty cool--I ended up being able to cite the Octopus paper in my master's thesis :) I had some trouble with running it at first (O/mero wouldn't start properly, unfortunately I can't recall the error, I think it's in the 9fans archive), but the setup scripts make it pretty simple to configure. John I guess the thing I was aiming for but forgot to type was, Yes, you can still try out Octopus, I set it up under Linux for fun about a month ago and it worked just fine
Re: [9fans] test
Obvious solution, switch to reading comp.os.plan9 and sending replies to the list :-) On Apr 16, 2012 11:48 AM, cinap_len...@gmx.de wrote: can't receive mail from 9fans anymore. but can i still send? -- cinap
Re: [9fans] vim and utf-8
On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 4:56 AM, hiro 23h...@googlemail.com wrote: bad troll relax
Re: [9fans] vim and utf-8
On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Troy Cauble troycau...@gmail.com wrote: When using vim, Greek characters are shown followed by a garbage character, usually Esc., sometimes immediately after the Greek char, sometimes later in the line. Editing that line after the Greek char, positioning is one-off. encoding, termencoding, and fileencoding all show as utf-8 Any ideas? Also, how do I change the font used by vim. It is not using $font. Thanks, -troy I have a solution, but you're not going to like it :) john
[9fans] Google command line client
Turns out Google command line client (http://code.google.com/p/googlecl/) works on Plan 9 just fine. All you need is python (from fgb's contrib, or if you want to risk potentially out-of-date code I've got a tarball at http://jfloren.net/contrib/packages/lang/python/root.tgz, just untar it and copy the files under root/ to the appropriate places) First, download the gdata client library version 2.0.14 (http://gdata-python-client.googlecode.com/files/gdata-2.0.14.tar.gz). This is an older version, but it's needed for compatibility reasons. Untar it, then run python setup.py install. Next, download the actual command line client (http://googlecl.googlecode.com/files/googlecl-0.9.13.tar.gz as of today), untar it, and once again run python setup.py install. You can then run /sys/lib/python/bin/google, which will give you a prompt. For kicks, you can enter something like 'docs edit --title testing --editor sam' to make and edit a quick text document. The first time, it will prompt you for an account name and then give you a link to authorize the client. I couldn't get the authorization link to work in abaco, I had to enter it in Firefox, but there may be a way to get abaco to work. You can also do something like '/sys/lib/python/bin/google calendar list' from an rc prompt, so whipping up a guide file for Acme will be very easy. John
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 rejected from GSoC 2012
I think being able to pay the students is what really makes GSoC work. It adds an additional dimension that makes it a lot harder to just say, Oh, I'm bored with this, I quit. John On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote: So this all makes me wonder why some social aggregation group (aka stack overflow or reddit/programming) or even just a big group of decentralized nerds couldn't just do a variant of GSoC on our own. Lining up mentors and mentees particularly w/o big biz or school backing is kinda what open source is all about. I guess what I'm saying is could we do this on our own? Maybe not having Google behind the effort takes some of the air out of it... but maybe not? -j On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 1:35 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Sun Mar 18 16:32:12 EDT 2012, rminn...@gmail.com wrote: coreboot got rejected too and we had 5 years in a row. Don't feel bad. I think they're trying to make sure that they don't get the same players year after year, which is a good idea IMHO. thanks, ron. that's reason enough to try again next year. - erik
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 rejected from GSoC 2012
Kickstarter works because the people on Kickstarter are interested in whatever the project is producing. A book, a video game, other products. Plan 9 has a small community and an even smaller number of people who actually use it. Unfortunately, I don't think there's enough money there to pay for 1 GSoC-equivalent student, especially considering that the project may turn out to be something the contributors have very little interest in. GSoC works great for Google because they have the money organization to do it. It builds good-will for them and helps them scout potential employees while also (ideally) improving open source projects. The only thing 9fans has out of that list is the interest in improving an open source project :) John On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote: I guess I didn't realize there was pay involved. How about a kick-starter approach? Think it'd work? On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:20 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: I think being able to pay the students is what really makes GSoC work. It adds an additional dimension that makes it a lot harder to just say, Oh, I'm bored with this, I quit. John On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote: So this all makes me wonder why some social aggregation group (aka stack overflow or reddit/programming) or even just a big group of decentralized nerds couldn't just do a variant of GSoC on our own. Lining up mentors and mentees particularly w/o big biz or school backing is kinda what open source is all about. I guess what I'm saying is could we do this on our own? Maybe not having Google behind the effort takes some of the air out of it... but maybe not? -j On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 1:35 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Sun Mar 18 16:32:12 EDT 2012, rminn...@gmail.com wrote: coreboot got rejected too and we had 5 years in a row. Don't feel bad. I think they're trying to make sure that they don't get the same players year after year, which is a good idea IMHO. thanks, ron. that's reason enough to try again next year. - erik
Re: [9fans] GSoC 2012
On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:03 PM, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: May I suggest to add an easy project to the list: review Plan9 installation. The howto install without (explaining how to create a Plan9 realm from another OS if the CD can not be used) that I posted a while ago did not attract a lot of attention. But dealing with the install, I saw many details that prevent a more versatile installation. And fdisk(8) has still to be fixed (on the stack but too many things going on with KerGIS or kerTeX for me). From what I have seen, it is a light project. I agree that the install situation could use some work--it can be a little bit odd if you aren't installing from a CD like a good boy, or if you try to build an ISO from somewhere that *isn't* Bell Labs. It's actually pretty straightforward to modify, though; it didn't take me very long to get an iso building and figure out how the installer works. I've already done some tweaking with this in Nix, moving the inst/ programs to /rc/bin/inst, which makes it possible to easily start an installation when booted from the CD with option 2, boot plan 9 from this cd, eliminating the need for the 9pcflop kernel and its limited root environment. I'd worry that doing an overhaul of the installation process is more of a 1-2 week project, although it would be useful and a very nice simple task. John
Re: [9fans] For first ONLY a laser printer in this resource meaning
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, V-CA ! Christoph Paschke c.pasc...@me.com wrote: @Nemo Ok, I just want start with a very easy constellation: 1.) I installed octopus on top of my MacMini (newest version) at my televison in living room, he running also Mac-Server 2.) I got the terminal started at an older MacBook 3.) I have a HP Envy 100 WLAN Inkjet printer / Scanner integrated in WLAN, working at all my Macs 4.) Now I want to write a limbo program to print a page at that printer As I understand you, I cannot nativly run it by the P9 idea of device = file ... because the HP printer itself has no firmware to support such file based streaming, right? Therefore I need root through to mac a Mac sytem call to can adress the printer. As I understand, this is NOT the idea of a good Plan 9 / Limbo program? In my understanding: If I now write a small program that prints out for example a list of addresses, I need communicate with my printer in a streaming way and not by system calls, right? If I'm wrong, could you explain me, how I get my printer working. And, if it is to difficult with this HP printer and the system only can support old Epson ESC/P code for needle printer, just exlain me how I get that ESC/P printer working in the Plan 9 ressource way? For me it is most important that I can realize what is promised from that operting system according all resources, also devices are a file and that this idea is more than a theory! You understand what I ask? - Chris So, here's what we did when we wanted to make Android hardware/services accessible to Inferno--and this should work for you too. All of your Macs can print to the printer, presumably by using a command something like lp -dprintername filenames. That's nice, because you now have a reasonably simple abstracted interface to the printer, which allows you to submit print jobs, check the queue, etc. Now, write a device in Inferno which presents files like /dev/print or whatever you want to call them, and executes commands on the Mac side to actually do the work. Thus, if you write a file into /dev/print, your driver should do something like run lp and feed it the file on standard input. You can take a look at https://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/src/75008e7031e1/emu/Android/devwifi.c, specifically the wifiinit function, to see one crude example. The idea there was to initialize Android's wifi device when the Inferno devwifi device is initialized. Another example of translating actions in Inferno into actions on the host system is https://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/src/75008e7031e1/emu/Android/devphone.c, where we took commands written to the device files and translated them into appropriate RIL (Android's radio daemon) commands to send out over a socket on the Android side. Once you figure out how the devices work in Inferno, it should be pretty easy to write code that will link your file operations in Inferno to the printing framework on the Macs. John
Re: [9fans] GSoC application ideas page
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Peter A. Cejchan tyap...@gmail.com wrote: It would be nice to have a widget library including buttons, drop-down menus, multiple-line text entry, radio buttons, scrollbars, etc. Oh, no!!! ++pac Oddly enough, that idea does not come with the rider, And then force Peter to use the library exclusively. I somehow doubt that acme will suddenly turn into an MS Word-esque monstrosity simply because someone has created a successor to libpanel. John
Re: [9fans] hardware device (...)
On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:09 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: folks don't write code until they want it. until now, nobody has cared enough about cameras or scanners or printers (though i thought ethernet connected printers work more or less (but i've never printed anything)) to do anything. now you care, maybe you'll write them. the beauty of plan 9 is that it's easy to write drivers if you have decent documentation. which you will for at least some of the devices you listed. or maybe some common user-oriented device support like this would make a good Google Summer of Code project? you'd do much better in gsoc if you limited your scope. - erik I'd also like to recommend that projects take place outside the kernel when possible. It's a lot easier to do things in userland on a single Plan 9 box (or VM), while I've found that kernel work is best done with at least a CPU server, a victim PC with serial output so we can catch crash messages, and then another box where you can sit to actually write code--a much more complex thing for a student with no hardware budget to set up! John
Re: [9fans] octopus paper
On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 8:23 AM, Nicolas Bercher nberc...@yahoo.fr wrote: On 02/03/2012 13:11, Charles Forsyth wrote: Welcome to the world of Elsevier, Springer and Wiley. On 2 March 2012 10:29, Francisco J Ballesterosn...@lsub.org wrote: WoW! I hate them. It seems my university is subscribed and I could browse it freely… I'll talk to you off list. Here at CNRS, you are starting to struggle against this crazy system: 1) we pay to submit papers 2) we pay to read papers from others 3) we have to pay more if we want our papers to be freely accessible 4) we are not paid for peer review 4 times a shame, at least. Nicolas Unless Elsevier is even more evil that I thought, Nemo should still be able to post a PDF on lsub.org. Now, if they're really evil, they got exclusive rights... John
[9fans] Some things never change
While waiting for Linux to compile, I started poking at the 9fans archive and noticed something: The 13th message ever sent to 9fans (http://9fans.net/archive/1993/04/13) ended by asking about find. Plan 9: Not UNIX, since 1993 John
Re: [9fans] current python hg support
On Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 6:06 PM, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.com wrote: A quick question for everyone, is there interest in getting a more current version of hg working for Plan 9 NIX? If so, given I've spent way too much time in the past getting both working for other platforms, I could devote a little time to get both prepped for future work. Python 2.5.1 is stable, but it wouldn't hurt us to be a little closer to the 2.7.1 release. Hg has made significant strides since 1.0.2. Neither of these updates might help the oddities people are finding while using Hg, but if we're looking forward then keeping current should be addressed. -jas That would be really great... Ideally, if you update Python, you could get patches put in to officially support Plan 9. If I remember correctly, there was at least one Python developer who was interested in helping with that. John
Re: [9fans] Building Go on Plan 9 using Antony Martin's
On Fri, Jan 20, 2012 at 1:48 AM, ROuNIN rounin.urash...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello, Thank you. Sorry for late reply: I get this message - something seems drastically wrong with my Plan9 install -- 8l cp 8.out /386/bin/go/8l 8c 8l -o 8.out cgen.8 cgen64.8 div.8 list.8 machcap.8 mul.8 pgen.8 pswt. 8 peep.8 reg.8 sgen.8 swt.8 txt.8 ../8l/enam.8 goos.8 ../cc/cc.a8 /386/ lib/libbio.a cp 8.out /386/bin/go/8c 8a cp 8.out /386/bin/go/8a gopack cp gopack /386/bin/go/gopack pkg install runtime INSTALL FAIL runtime /go/src/pkg /386/bin/go/8g -+ $GCIMPORTS -p runtime -o _go_.8 debug.go error.go extern.go mem.go sig.go softfloat64.go type.go version.go version_plan9.go version_386.go runtime_defs.go /386/bin/go/8g: '/386/bin/go/8g' does not exist mk: /386/bin/go/8g -+ $GCIMPORTS ... : exit status=rc 16064: rc 16066: can't exec: '/386/bin/go/8g' does not exist mk: echo install runtime ... : exit status=rc 16027: 1 mk: for (i in ... : exit status=rc 15598: rc 15726: mk 15729: error term% date Sun Jan 22 07:29:44 EST 2012 term% I don't want to re-install yet - busy with other stuff. But I may have to resign to the fact that I will need to do fresh install with the latest plan9.iso.bz2 ROuNIN What exactly about this makes you think that there's something drastically wrong with your Plan 9 install? It looks like /386/bin/go/8g doesn't exist. I wouldn't call that reason for re-installing, unless I've missed something in that output. John
Re: [9fans] /ape/libcrypto.a ??none??: /386/lib/ape/libssl.a first
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 2:32 AM, ROuNIN rounin.urash...@googlemail.com wrote: Hello! I still get the following: pcc -o 8.out app_rand.8 apps.8 asn1pars.8 ca.8 ciphers.8 crl.8 crl2p7.8 dgst.8 dh.8 dhparam.8 dsa.8 dsaparam.8 ec.8 ecparam.8 enc.8 engine.8 errstr.8 gendh.8 gendsa.8 genrsa.8 nseq.8 ocsp.8 openssl.8 passwd.8 pkcs12.8 pkcs7.8 pkcs8.8 prime.8 rand.8 req.8 rsa.8 rsautl.8 s_cb.8 s_client.8 s_server.8 s_socket.8 s_time.8 sess_id.8 smime.8 speed.8 spkac.8 verify.8 version.8 x509.8 /386/lib/ape/libssl.a /386/ lib/ape/libcrypto.a ar vu /386/lib/ape/libregexp.a regcomp.8 regerror.8 regexec.8 regsub.8 regaux.8 rregexec.8 rregsub.8 ar vu /386/lib/ape/libutf.a rune.8 runestrcat.8 runestrchr.8 runestrcmp.8 runestrcpy.8 runestrdup.8 runestrlen.8 runestrecpy.8 runestrncat.8 runestrncmp.8 runestrncpy.8 runestrrchr.8 runestrstr.8 runetype.8 utfecpy.8 utflen.8 utfnlen.8 utfrrune.8 utfrune.8 utfutf.8 ar vu /386/lib/ape/libv.a getpass.8 tty.8 rand.8 nrand.8 getfields.8 min.8 max.8 error.8 nap.8 pcc -c /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/gzio.c /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/gzio.c:181[stdin:1575] function args not checked: fdopen /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/gzio.c:627[stdin:1995] incompatible types: INT and VOID for op AS pcc: cpp: 8c 9278: error mk: pcc -c /sys/src/cmd/gs/zlib/gzio.c : exit status=rc 9275: pcc 9277: cpp: 8c 9278: error mk: for (i in ... : exit status=rc 5839: rc 9272: mk 9274: error mk: cd lib mk all : exit status=rc 5831: mk 5834: error mk: mk lib.all mk ... : exit status=rc 5828: mk 5830: error mk: date for (i ... : exit status=rc 5075: rc 5825: mk 5827: error term% What do I need to do? Sorry, I may need an extra detailed explanation on what to do. ROuNIN I just saw this yesterday. Basically, vsnprintf may return an int or nothing depending on your library (in APE, it depends on whether or not you've defined _C99_SPRINTF_EXTENSION). By default, APE is going to give you a vsnprintf that returns void, but the code expects it to return int. You can get around this by adding -DHAS_vsnprintf_void to the CFLAGS variable in /sys/src/ape/lib/z/mkfile. John
[9fans] ape compiler error, IND CHAR and INT
I figured I'd try building Python from the source on their website just for kicks. Configure went ok, but when I went to run make, it soon bailed out with this error: cc -c -OPT:Olimit=0 -g -DNDEBUG -O -I. -IInclude -I./Include -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Parser/grammar.o Parser/grammar.c cc: flag -P ignored cc: flag -: ignored cc: can't find library for -l /usr/john/Python-2.7.2/Parser/grammar.c:46[stdin:12906] incompatible types: IND CHAR and INT for op AS /usr/john/Python-2.7.2/Parser/grammar.c:108[stdin:12968] incompatible types: IND CHAR and INT for op AS cc: cpp: 8c 896765: error *** Error code 1 # The offending lines are these: d-d_name = strdup(name); and lb-lb_str = strdup(str); d_name and lb_str are both defined as char*, and strdup is supposed to return a char*. However, if I'm reading that error message correctly, it thinks strdup is trying to return a char*. Does anyone recognize what's going on? Thanks John
Re: [9fans] ape compiler error, IND CHAR and INT
On Wed, Jan 18, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Martin Harriss mar...@princeton.edu wrote: John Floren wrote: I figured I'd try building Python from the source on their website just for kicks. Configure went ok, but when I went to run make, it soon bailed out with this error: cc -c -OPT:Olimit=0 -g -DNDEBUG -O -I. -IInclude -I./Include -DPy_BUILD_CORE -o Parser/grammar.o Parser/grammar.c cc: flag -P ignored cc: flag -: ignored cc: can't find library for -l /usr/john/Python-2.7.2/Parser/grammar.c:46[stdin:12906] incompatible types: IND CHAR and INT for op AS /usr/john/Python-2.7.2/Parser/grammar.c:108[stdin:12968] incompatible types: IND CHAR and INT for op AS cc: cpp: 8c 896765: error *** Error code 1 # The offending lines are these: d-d_name = strdup(name); and lb-lb_str = strdup(str); d_name and lb_str are both defined as char*, and strdup is supposed to return a char*. However, if I'm reading that error message correctly, it thinks strdup is trying to return a char*. Does anyone recognize what's going on? No declaration in scope for the string functions, compiler thinks they return INT? Martin Yup, I r dum, needed a -D_BSD_EXTENSION in my flags to make string.h behave right.
Re: [9fans] miau, an IRC bouncer
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:05 PM, Yaroslav yari...@gmail.com wrote: well, there is a session persistense in Plan 9, and its name is vncs(1)… Opening mibbit in a web browser is easier than installing a VNC client on every computer I use. Do you have some personal problem with IRC bouncers that makes you desperately suggest half-assed alternatives? I've been using Plan 9 for something like 7 years now, I'm reasonably familiar with what you can do with it... is it so terrible that I got a piece of software working and felt like sharing the changes? John
Re: [9fans] miau, an IRC bouncer
On Thu, Jan 12, 2012 at 12:27 PM, Yaroslav yari...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/1/12 John Floren j...@jfloren.net: but I missed the simplicity and convenience of having just one nickname on IRC at all times why not to use their nickserv extentions for this purpose, and a startup script to deal with connection and authentication to select servers and channels? The problem is that I typically have an IRC client running on my desktop, and on my laptop in the living room, and sometimes on my phone, and maybe open up a web client if I need to get on a technical channel at work. This beats having john, john|laptop, john|phone, john|work. Plus, when I'm bored on the road or whatever, this allows me to open up my Android IRC client, connect, and get the last hour's backlog so I know what's going on. Nickserv prevents other people from stealing your nickname. An IRC bouncer allows you to maintain one continual presence online; I've set up Miau to authenticate with Nickserv at startup. John
Re: [9fans] Plan 9/plan9port coding conventions
(1) For example, P9 code tends to use variable names like i and j, where I would typically use self-documenting variable names like row and col. Variable names like row and col are much easier to search for (i.e., with a right-click), too. Names like i and j (which occur in many identifiers) will generate many false positives. If everyone in the world uses i and j as row/column indexes into arrays, aren't they self-documenting? One reason is that in FORTRAN, identifiers that began with I through... N? were automatically integers. Thus, I and J were easy. There may be a good reason for that, I've heard that it came from quaternions but that may be false. John
[9fans] miau, an IRC bouncer
Back when I had my FreeBSD server, I used to run a tmux session and irssi to keep myself connected to IRC at all times. This let me access it from any computer with an SSH client. Now I only run a Plan 9 server, but I missed the simplicity and convenience of having just one nickname on IRC at all times. I finally got fed up and did a very crude port of Miau, an IRC bouncer. A bouncer stays connected to your selected servers and channels while serving the IRC protocol itself. You then point an IRC client at your bouncer, which instantly restores for you all the channels you had open. This serves essentially the same purpose as ircfs, but with the advantage that you don't need Plan 9 or Inferno to access it--any computer with an IRC client can connect. In fact, you can just use Mibbit to connect as long as you have a web browser. Porting Miau was pretty easy; the configure script actually ran properly and I only had to do a little bit of hacking to account for things like the lack of crypt() (so yes, you have to type in a plaintext password in the config file rather than giving it a hash). There's a tar at /n/sources/contrib/john/miau9.tgz, or you can check out the bitbucket repo from http://bitbucket.org/floren/miau9 (preferred). Known bugs: It's really easy to type maui instead of miau. John
Re: [9fans] miau, an IRC bouncer
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 3:03 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: Back when I had my FreeBSD server, I used to run a tmux session and irssi to keep myself connected to IRC at all times. This let me access it from any computer with an SSH client. Now I only run a Plan 9 server, but I missed the simplicity and convenience of having just one nickname on IRC at all times. I finally got fed up and did a very crude port of Miau, an IRC bouncer. A bouncer stays connected to your selected servers and channels while serving the IRC protocol itself. You then point an IRC client at your bouncer, which instantly restores for you all the channels you had open. This serves essentially the same purpose as ircfs, but with the advantage that you don't need Plan 9 or Inferno to access it--any computer with an IRC client can connect. In fact, you can just use Mibbit to connect as long as you have a web browser. Porting Miau was pretty easy; the configure script actually ran properly and I only had to do a little bit of hacking to account for things like the lack of crypt() (so yes, you have to type in a plaintext password in the config file rather than giving it a hash). There's a tar at /n/sources/contrib/john/miau9.tgz, or you can check out the bitbucket repo from http://bitbucket.org/floren/miau9 (preferred). Known bugs: It's really easy to type maui instead of miau. John Oddly, I can't get this to compile on my home Plan 9 system; there, it bails out like all other configure scripts I've ever tried to use: # ./configure ln: conf115166.dir destination exists usage: ls [-ACFHLRUacdflprstu1] [file ...] configure: error: working directory cannot be determined # I'll have to try and figure out the difference. John
Re: [9fans] miau, an IRC bouncer
Turns out it's been fixed after a pull--thanks to whoever submitted that patch! John On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Jens Staal staal1...@gmail.com wrote: That error is very common where ls -di is called in the configure script (strange that it did not complain on your other system). a nice fix is fgb's config script http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/fgb/rc/config another common problem is grep, where the easiest is to write GREP=grep at the top of the configure script. 2012/1/12 John Floren j...@jfloren.net: On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 3:03 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: Back when I had my FreeBSD server, I used to run a tmux session and irssi to keep myself connected to IRC at all times. This let me access it from any computer with an SSH client. Now I only run a Plan 9 server, but I missed the simplicity and convenience of having just one nickname on IRC at all times. I finally got fed up and did a very crude port of Miau, an IRC bouncer. A bouncer stays connected to your selected servers and channels while serving the IRC protocol itself. You then point an IRC client at your bouncer, which instantly restores for you all the channels you had open. This serves essentially the same purpose as ircfs, but with the advantage that you don't need Plan 9 or Inferno to access it--any computer with an IRC client can connect. In fact, you can just use Mibbit to connect as long as you have a web browser. Porting Miau was pretty easy; the configure script actually ran properly and I only had to do a little bit of hacking to account for things like the lack of crypt() (so yes, you have to type in a plaintext password in the config file rather than giving it a hash). There's a tar at /n/sources/contrib/john/miau9.tgz, or you can check out the bitbucket repo from http://bitbucket.org/floren/miau9 (preferred). Known bugs: It's really easy to type maui instead of miau. John Oddly, I can't get this to compile on my home Plan 9 system; there, it bails out like all other configure scripts I've ever tried to use: # ./configure ln: conf115166.dir destination exists usage: ls [-ACFHLRUacdflprstu1] [file ...] configure: error: working directory cannot be determined # I'll have to try and figure out the difference. John
Re: [9fans] venti and contrib: RFC
On Thu, Jan 5, 2012 at 10:15 AM, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: But perhaps the other users are smart enough to have understood all this at installation time, but when I first installed Plan9, that was not for the archival features. And I spent my time on Plan9 looking for the distributed system, the namespace and so on, not on venti. The question is more about the defaults and/or the documentation. The default is that you have so little data in comparison to a modern disk that there is no good reason not to save full snapshots. As Erik and others have pointed out, if you do find reason to exclude certain trees from the snapshots, you can use chmod +t. The system is working as intended. Russ For reference, I set up our current Plan 9 system about half a year ago. We have 3.8 TB of Venti storage total. We have used 2.8 GB of that, with basically no precautions taken to set anything +t; in general, if it's around at 4 a.m., it's going into Venti. I figure we have roughly another 2,000 years of storage left at the current rate :) John
Re: [9fans] venti and contrib: RFC
On Thu, 05 Jan 2012 10:07:08 PST John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: For reference, I set up our current Plan 9 system about half a year ago. We have 3.8 TB of Venti storage total. We have used 2.8 GB of that, with basically no precautions taken to set anything +t; in general, if it's around at 4 a.m., it's going into Venti. I figure we have roughly another 2,000 years of storage left at the current rate :) I first read that 2.8 GB as 2.8 TB and was utterly confused! You'd save a bunch of energy if you only powered up venti disks once @ 4AM for a few minutes (and on demand when you look at /n/dump). Though venti might have fits! And the disks might too! So may be this calls for a two level venti? First to an SSD RAID and a much less frequent venti/copy to hard disks. venti doesn't have a scrub command, does it? zfs scrub was instrumental in warning me that I needed new disks. Well, we need the venti disks powered on whenever we're using it, right? Since most of the filesystem is actually living on Venti and fossil just has pointers to it? Also, I think it's probably better for disks to stay on all the time rather than go on-off-on-off. And compared to the rest of the machine room, keeping a Coraid running all the time isn't that big of a thing. John
Re: [9fans] KerTeX: e-TeX, CWEB and packaging!
Voting Thierry for #1 poster of 2012 [so far] Looking forward to trying the new release! John On Sun, Jan 1, 2012 at 3:02 PM, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: Hello, A supplementary note for Plan9 users before reproducing the announce. I was testing the new version on Plan9 when the infamous Disk full error occured [my plan9 installation is still the initial one...]. So I have tested the compilation. The installation should go without problem, but there is a new thing that I have not tested: the new! packaging system. More précisely, to install LaTeX for example there is a pkg_latex.sh scripts that handles everything. The problem is not here, but in the system dependent part of pkglib.sh, indeed the http/ftp retriever (with a own pkg syntax). I have written it before testing... and have not tested. It would be mere chance if this preliminary version has no blunder (the script is short; but that's never prevented me from doing obvious stupid mistakes). So be careful... or courageous. [I will redo entirely the install sometimes in the week...]. Now, the official announce: == The 0..0.2 version of kerTeX has been released. This version includes: - NEW! NTS team' e-TeX (e-TeX passes the 3 steps ETRIP test); for the ones unaware, amongst other things, e-TeX offers left-to-right and right-to-left... - NEW! Donald E. Knuth and Silvio Levy' CWEB programs (CWEBINPUTS accept the same syntax for path searching as the other kerTeX programs: colon separated alternatives); - NEW! A packaging system! kerTeX passes the TRAP (METAFONT), TRIP (TeX), TWIST (New name for MetaPost torture test) and ETRIP (NTS e-TeX) tests. WHAT IS KERTEX? KerTeX aims to be a portable, maintainable, small and robust TeX kernel System, providing the basis upon which everything depends: D.E. Knuth's digital typography programs. It has maximum portability: C89 and that's all the binaries program. For running, one program---MetaPost---depends on a handful Bourne shell script. For the administration of the system, we use only a limited subset of essential POSIX.2 tools (that can typically be found on Plan9). KerTex has to be thought as a guest system: it is hosted by an OS. Once kerTeX is ported to the OS, the ideal would be that TeXpkg are solely the problem of kerTeX: one packages for kerTeX, and the host system has nothing to worry about. KerTeX is small (see LISEZ.MOI/README): - 10 Mb of sources to download. - The sources are taken read-only by the R.I.S.K framework. So one needs, at least... 16 Mb of writable space to compile and package (with R.I.S.K SAVE_SPACE=YES option, that removes all intermediary products---including the generated Makefiles...---once a target is obtained (make SAVE_SPACE=YES; make SAVE_SPACE=yes pkg). - The initial installation needs 16 Mb of free space. - After installation, kerTeX uses its own packaging system to compile the dumps (for METAFONT, TeX, e-TeX and MetaPost) and to generate the fonts and derived TFM. It is so for not running the compiler/interpreter as root. This adds 9 Mb to the base system. So it needs apx. 25 Mb to install. TeX THE AWARD WINNING SOFTWARE! AWARDED! best software of 2012! [so far] READ WHAT OTHER CUSTOMERS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT kerTeX! Mr Euclides [Alexandria]: Whoa!... If only I had had it before, I wouldn't have to copy my books by hand! And furthermore, I wouldn't have to answer again, and again and again! the very same question: How were your other books lost ? That's not my _books_ that were lost: that's my time, trying to install another TeX distribution! EXTRACTS FROM THE FAQ Q: We are professionals in the printing business, with professional needs. Do you have a kerTeX-pro? A: no: all our products are professional ones. Q: We were planning to install a TeX distribution. So we have bought a Top10 supercomputer; planned to hire 30 TeX wizards and were in negociation to buy some Megawatts when heating is almost over, and cooling not already there, in order to have cheaper prices. And now, you announce this What shall I do? A: Resp.: sell, fire and revoke. With your pocket money, go to the next supermarket and buy a middle sized programmable toaster. It should have memory enough to cross-compile kerTeX for your wrist-watch. GET THE FACTS! The scientific community has shamelessly hiden what is known as David Hilbert's 24th problem---because it was deemed too hard. Here we restore the facts. David Hilbert has spoken in this way: And last, because it is the most urgent; because it is the most difficult and shall be done first! I'm going to speak about the mathematical typographic problem!
Re: [9fans] fun with replica and pull
On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 10:00 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: I'd like to install Erik's nupas, but according to contrib/install, a bunch of files have been modified locally, so it doesn't install them. Then, if I try to do a contrib/pull, it believes the package is up to date. Ok, great, so I do replica/pull -v /dist/replica/nupas, which still complains that a ton of files are locally modified. As far as I can tell, you must specify each individual file in a -s switch to replica before it'll actually do the right thing--yuck. Is there any way for me to just install the thing and damn the consequences? I've looked at the list of files it's afraid to overwrite, they're not anything I made modifications to (or at least, no important modifications). John I ended up writing decontrib, which will download all the files from a contrib package into a local directory and make a tarball for you. Then you can do whatever you like. Thus: % decontrib quanstro nupas [lots of output removed] % ls | grep nupas nupas nupas.tgz % lc nupas 386 README acmemailrc sys % It's in /n/sources/contrib/john/decontrib
[9fans] fun with replica and pull
I'd like to install Erik's nupas, but according to contrib/install, a bunch of files have been modified locally, so it doesn't install them. Then, if I try to do a contrib/pull, it believes the package is up to date. Ok, great, so I do replica/pull -v /dist/replica/nupas, which still complains that a ton of files are locally modified. As far as I can tell, you must specify each individual file in a -s switch to replica before it'll actually do the right thing--yuck. Is there any way for me to just install the thing and damn the consequences? I've looked at the list of files it's afraid to overwrite, they're not anything I made modifications to (or at least, no important modifications). John
Re: [9fans] go v. mk
On Sun, Dec 4, 2011 at 4:32 PM, Federico Benavento benave...@gmail.com wrote: On Dec 2, 2011, at 9:12 PM, ron minnich wrote: Did you try it? Might be worth trying it. We did. But maybe it's time to try things first and then send email :-) relax, maybe he didn't, but he did write a tool that parses configure/makefiles and generates mkfilles What's it called? Where can I get it? Sounds pretty useful. John
Re: [9fans] troff book
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 5:02 AM, hugo rivera uai...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, soon I'll begin to write my thesis and I am planing to use troff. I previously wrote some documents with it, mostly with the ms macro, which I think I'll use for the thesis. Can you advice some book about troff with some introduction on how to write troff macros? Saludos y gracias, -- Hugo Hi Hugo Having recently written my thesis, I strongly recommend using LaTeX. I love troff, I always enjoy writing short papers (such as my IWP9 submissions) in troff, but I think I would have gone insane writing my thesis without LaTeX. BibTeX alone is a huge incentive for me. Plus, it's quite possible that your school may already have a sample LaTeX thesis for you to work from; in my case, we had a style definition file (.sty) to include in the thesis source, and then a sample document using it. KerTeX is pretty neat, so if you want to write your thesis on Plan 9 it's a good option. John
Re: [9fans] troff book
On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 10:29 AM, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: On Fri, Dec 02, 2011 at 10:16:26AM -0800, ron minnich wrote: [...] tex/latex, once clean and small, are now a beast, Uh! There are days when I wonder why I have done kerTeX... (well, I know why: because _I_ use it!). Do you know that kerTeX has everything, including BibTeX (hell to fix!) and can do LaTeX and also AMSTeX and Comptes-rendus de l'Académie des Sciences (based on LaTeX) and so on. And it is small since I have sent 99% of the crap to the biggest storage till now and forever: /dev/null. kerTeX is awesome! Anybody doing typesetting on Plan 9 (or even on Linux/*BSD) should try grab it. There was even a bunch of connections last week because somebody was looking for TeX on phones... (I don't know why, but the community marvel named TeXlive didn't seem to be the first choice in this case...) Ah, I think that was due to me... I read http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3264341 and suggested that they take a look at kerTeX :) John
