Re: [9fans] plan 9 : any pager?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On Thu, 4 Oct 2018 at 09:22, Ethan Gardener  wrote:
>
> On Wed, Oct 3, 2018, at 4:20 AM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> > Turn off the scroll in the rio window that the shell is running in, then 
> > cat the file.
>
> This is my preferred option too.  Also works in 9term.  I liked to play MUDs 
> this way, but without color I missed stuff.

This has the problem of inability to search within the text,
e.g. when reading a man page.

On the other hand, a pager should perhaps be only a pager.

When one needs to do searching, something like 'less' on unixes
is far more convenient for me.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] APL for Plan 9?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On Fri, 7 Sep 2018 at 17:53, Xiao-Yong Jin  wrote:
> I would love to know what you did for OpenBSD.
> I am stuck with the linux version on FreeBSD for now.
> Do all the test pass on OpenBSD?  Do all the 15!: actually work?
> For Plan 9, we can just get rid of libedit and make jconsole a lot simpler.
> But I am not sure how to deal with (15!:) and other system dependent (!:) 
> foreign conjunctions.

Well, I did not test those 15!:'s.
I was just happy to see the jconsole prompt. But then I tried to install the
add-ons and although I achieved a few steps, I finally gave up... :(
I found for myself that there isn't a good separation of system-dependent
and system-independent parts, so that I could figure out what should be done.

Eventually I thought for myself that the best would be to take it apart
completely and then put it back together in a for-me sensible and concise
way... I don't think this would be too difficult, but I only live one life...

Best regards
Ruda

PS.: Sorry for bad news, especially on Monday. :)

Re: [9fans] APL for Plan 9?

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On Thu, 6 Sep 2018 at 19:36, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote:
> > There's a Plan 9 port of J 3.02 in /n/sources/contrib/miller/j/8.j
> >
> > 386 executable only, as I don't have permission to share source, but I can
> > compile for other $objtypes on request.
>
> I recall the port being very simple to do, so it would probably be
> worthwhile to do again now that it's open source.
>

I tried to build and run a recent version of J on OpenBSD, and
it wasn't straightforward for me (but I don't know much...).
Their building system is a mess with many various conditions
to guess the OS, processor, ...
But. There are several parts of the system: jlibrary, jconsole, jqt.
The first two I finally managed to compile on OpenBSD, I failed with
jqt (which is a very nice qt-based environment, btw.) And nobody will
use the latter on Plan9.

I also note that there now exists a GPL'd version of the K language,
Kona. That one was straightforward to build on OpenBSD.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] What's the fastest way to input command in Acme?

[Rudolf Sykora]

> In VIM, I can input ...comand, in Acme I have
> to move cursor to command area and click, input command, press ,
> click middle mouse button on the highlighted command, is this
> the fastest way to input command in Acme?

Basically, I think so.

I'd just add that
1) command can actually appear anywhere (but then it may clutter the
main text)
2) if the command is one word, then ESC is not necessary
3) you may keep several commands there, one kept highlighted
for immediate use
4) in p9p the tag line can have several lines

Ruda

Re: [9fans] simple rc problem in p9p (on OpenBSD)

[Rudolf Sykora]

On Thu, 26 Apr 2018 at 21:41, Costin Chirvasuta  wrote:

> I lot of the messages on this list end up being marked as spam. I
> believe there was a previous discussion about this.

Well, I did check my spam folder. (Actually all folders...)
It hasn't been delivered at all...

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] simple rc problem in p9p (on OpenBSD)

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 26 April 2018 at 17:48, Benjamin Purcell  wrote:
> Since no one had any idea what you had in mind, here is stab in the
> dark. Did you want
>
> % for(i in `{echo $w}) {echo $i; echo XXX}

Yes. That was it.
But basically this was already given in Teodoro Santoni's
e-mail.

> On Thu, Apr 26, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Alexander Kapshuk
>  wrote:
>> You could initialise $w to hold a list of files output by ls like so:
>> % w=`{ls}
>> % echo $#w
>> 40
>>
>> Is this what you had in mind?

I am puzzled now. I actually did not get Alexander Kapshuk's
e-mail, it was not delivered to my gmail account. (But it is
present at https://marc.info/?l=9fans=1=201804=2 ).
(And it seems you might have not received Santoni's e-mail.)
I don't know what's happening here.

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] simple rc problem in p9p (on OpenBSD)

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 26 April 2018 at 17:20, dexen deVries  wrote:
> use a list. lists are created either by the parentheses:
>
> % w = ( A B C )
> % # note no space before the backslash
> % wMultiline = (\
> X\
> Y\
> Z\
> )

As I wrote in another answer, the content of w is as if pre-given.
I didn't want to edit it in any way (like adding the \ characters).
I wanted ifs to do the work.

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] simple rc problem in p9p (on OpenBSD)

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 26 April 2018 at 17:02, Teodoro Santoni  wrote:
> ; w='A
> B
> C'
> ; we=`{echo $w}
> ; for(i in $we) { echo 'arg '$i; }
> arg A
> arg B
> arg C
> ; for(i in $w) { echo 'arg'$i; }
> argA
> B
> C
> ; exit
>
> When enclosed in single quotes, the variable is, regardless of spaces
> or whatnot, a single element. For a list you have to expand it in some
> way, inside a command expansion or declaring a list.
>

Thanks, this is it.
Ruda

Re: [9fans] simple rc problem in p9p (on OpenBSD)

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 26 April 2018 at 16:54, Lucio De Re  wrote:
> w=(A B C)
>
> ?

1) this is not an answer
2) the use of it all was that I wanted to send to print
certain files, the list of which I got from ls followed
by manual deletion (in 9term) of some... Newline separation
is thus natural.

Thanks anyway
Ruda

[9fans] simple rc problem in p9p (on OpenBSD)

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello

I, using OpenBSD's p9p, see this

% w='A
B
C'
% echo $w
A
B
C
% for(i in $w) {echo $i; echo XXX}
A
B
C
XXX

ie, w in for is taken as just one argument instead of
3. What can I do with it?

I haven't modified ifs (it should be \n space and tab).
(How can I check, say see the character codes?)

Thanks for comments
Ruda

Re: [9fans] Fwd: ubiquitous environment?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 3 March 2018 at 20:27, Francisco J Ballesteros  wrote:
> Octopus would run on Plan 9, although we used inferno for (hosted) terminals,
> and it used Op as the protocol (a descendant of 9p like everyone else),

Ok. So does anybody use octopus these days?
Why not? (Who wouldn't like a ubiquitous environment?)
What do the authors of octopus use instead these days? (Clive seems
to me to serve a completely different purpose.)

It seems the octopus environment uses a tile-like management
of its windows, unlike rio, where windows can overlap.
Has anybody done any experiments to arrive at a rio-like feel?

How is it with the need for inferno?
(I tried to install octopus now on 9front. Unfortunately it asks me
too many questions I am, at this moment, unable to answer---I do
not understand them.)

Thanks
Ruda

[9fans] Fwd: ubiquitous environment?

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I am not sure this email ever made it to the forum,
hence I decided to ask once more...

Thanks for any comments...

-- Forwarded message --
From: Rudolf Sykora <rudolf.syk...@gmail.com>
Date: 16 June 2016 at 10:30
Subject: ubiquitous environment?
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>


Hello, everyone,

I read the following some time ago and now got back to it.
It's from an interview with Russ Cox.
https://usesthis.com/interviews/russ.cox/

--
The thing I miss most about Plan 9 was the way that no matter which
computer you sat down at, you had the same environment. Because we
were working off a shared file server - there were no local disks on
the Plan 9 workstations - you could go home and log in and all your
work was there waiting. Of course, it only worked because we had good,
fast connectivity to the file server, and only file state - not
application state - transferred, but it was still a huge win.

Today it's taken for granted that everyone has local files on disk and
you need programs like Unison or Dropbox (or for the power users,
Mercurial or Git) to synchronize them, but what we had in Plan 9 was
completely effortless, and my dream is to return to that kind of
environment. I want to be working on my home desktop, realize what
time it is, run out the door to catch my train, open my laptop on the
train, continue right where I left off, close the laptop, hop off the
train, sit down at work, and have all my state sitting there on the
monitor on my desk, all without even thinking about it.
--

Has anyone tried a setup like that? -- Having a server at work and
working on it even from home/anywhere? And how is it set up? Does it mean
that wherever you sit you somehow mount the window system to get
to the exactly same state that you left the machine in?
(Ie. something like a screen/tmux but supplied by the system itself?)

Thanks for any comments!

Ruda

Re: [9fans] rio in p9p

[Rudolf Sykora]

Dear Mathieu,

On 9 October 2017 at 19:35, Mathieu Lonjaret  wrote:
> Sure. each change is in a dedicated branch at
>
> https://github.com/mpl/plan9port
>
> They're all trivial, except for the sort by thread acme mail.

if I have a fairly recent p9p, what is the minimum I have to do
to try your threaded-view change? (Btw., does it work well? I believe
I once tried some threaded view in acme, but something was wrong with
that back then...)

Sorry for this question, I just do not orient in everything...

Thanks!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] rio in p9p

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 9 October 2017 at 19:35, Mathieu Lonjaret  wrote:
> whoops, apologies for the super late reply. I forget to check my 9fans
> folder regularly :/
>
> Sure. each change is in a dedicated branch at
>
> https://github.com/mpl/plan9port
>

thanks
Ruda

[9fans] rio in p9p

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I want to ask if anybody has made any changes to rio in p9p, so that


-- it can either do or somehow ignore switching to fullscreen (e.g.,
now when I press
the fullscreen button in a youtube video I have to close the browser (Firefox)
because it becomes unresponsive)

-- I can move tabs around in Firefox (this works in other wms but not in rio)

-- it does not so much influence other programs when windows are moved
around, created by sweeping, etc. (When I  watch a youtube video in mpsyt
[ie., not in a browser] and I, say, try to move some window around, then
playback freezes; though I don't really understand why; this happens in
all rio, 9wm, w9wm.)


Thanks for comments
Ruda

Re: [9fans] Irc segmentation fault

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 29 June 2017 at 11:29, Nick Owens  wrote:
> you probably need to use gcc -O0 -g for that.

Doesn't it matter that the program is normally built with 9c?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] Irc segmentation fault

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 29 June 2017 at 09:39, Nick Owens  wrote:
> acid is next to impossible to use on unix systems. just run gdb with 'thread
> apply all bt'.. should give you an idea of what's wrong.

If I run Irc in gdb, I get

(gdb) run irc.freenode.org
Starting program: /usr/local/plan9port/bin/Irc irc.freenode.org
[Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled]
Using host libthread_db library "/lib64/libthread_db.so.1".

Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
0x7749bedf in raise () from /lib64/libpthread.so.0
(gdb) where
#0  0x7749bedf in raise () from /lib64/libpthread.so.0
#1  0x0040df34 in child () at daemonize.c:38
#2  0x0040e18e in _threadsetupdaemonize () at daemonize.c:153
#3  0x0040de3d in p9main (argc=2, argv=0x7fffdcb8) at thread.c:721
#4  0x00402ae9 in main (argc=, argv=)
at main.c:10

which I really don't understand...
How could argc, argv be 'optimized out'?

Thanks for any comments!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] Irc segmentation fault

[Rudolf Sykora]

> $ Irc irc.freenode.org
> Segmentation fault

Do I have to use acid to debug it, or is it possible to use the usual
unix gdb to debug this on p9p?

Thanks
Ruda

[9fans] Irc segmentation fault

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I am trying to use the Irc acme client in plan9port, the one from

https://swtch.com/irc/

However, when I run it, it segfaults:

$ Irc irc.freenode.org
Segmentation fault

Has anybody used this client successfully?
(Or would you rather recommend something else?)

Thanks
Ruda

[9fans] 9atom, S-ATA hard disk not detected

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

when trying to install 9atom I get to to the point
where I should presumably say that the installation should
go to the hard disc, but the only option I see is the usb
flash device from which I have run the installation itself.
I do not see any sd... under /dev.

It's a Samsung HD103Si S-ATA disc plugged into
P5GL-MX Asus mother board
http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/socket775/P5GL-MX/e_p5gl-mx.pdf
Bios detects it as the 3rd IDE master.

Can anybody tell me if there is any chance to have it run?

Thanks
Ruda

[9fans] 9atom boot, reset when rio starts

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I tried to boot plan9, in the incarnations of 9front (on machine 1)
and 9atom (on machine 1 and 2) but did not succeed in either
case. The furthest I got was with 9atom. On machine 1 it booted
(using amd64) as far as I could already see a few rio windows, but
then it suddenly went into reboot by itself. Can anybody comment
on what can go wrong at that point?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] 9atom boot, reset when rio starts

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 18 November 2015 at 16:28,   wrote:
> it works fine for me on machine 3.

Of course, I myself have 2 other machines where it runs...
What I meant was that when one just picks up a machine at random,
one seems to regularly encounter a problem, regardless if one uses
9atom or 9front (although 9atom usually manages to get through.)

Related to this point is the fact, that, at least for me, it's fairly difficult
to see the differences in ideas (if there are any) of the booting process
between 9front and 9atom. Is there any kind of a summary of ideas?


> seriously, what do you expect? its pretty impossible to say
> whats wrong without any information on the hardware and what
> got printed on the screen.

Well, if one gets to the point I described (with 9atom), it'd be nice
to get some
proposition as to what parameters to pass to sth. in order to not start
rio automatically, for instance. I haven't found the list of the parameters
I could possibly try.

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] p9p ssh-agent and unix keys

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 9 September 2015 at 17:55, Rudolf Sykora <rudolf.syk...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have an ssh key, id_rsa, generated with the unix tools.
> I want to have it put into factotum and use it via p9p ssh-agent.
> I now the id_rsa key is ok, I can use it to get to the remote system.
>
> Now, I did this (in bash):
>
> ;killall ssh-agent
> ;killall factotum
> ;eval $(9 ssh-agent -e)
> ;factotum -n
> ;pemdecode 'RSA PRIVATE KEY' id_rsa | asn12rsa >rsa2
> ;cat rsa2 | 9p write -l factotum/ctl
>
> but when I now issue
> ;9 ssh-agent -l
>
> I get nothing (and really the ssh login doesn't work
> if the original id_rsa is removed).

for the record:

I found out the produced rsa2 key has to have a

service=ssh-rsa

added; only then 9 ssh-agent finds it in factotum.
Finaly, everything works.

Ruda

[9fans] p9p ssh-agent and unix keys

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello everyone,

I have an ssh key, id_rsa, generated with the unix tools.
I want to have it put into factotum and use it via p9p ssh-agent.
I now the id_rsa key is ok, I can use it to get to the remote system.

Now, I did this (in bash):

;killall ssh-agent
;killall factotum
;eval $(9 ssh-agent -e)
;factotum -n
;pemdecode 'RSA PRIVATE KEY' id_rsa | asn12rsa >rsa2
;cat rsa2 | 9p write -l factotum/ctl

but when I now issue
;9 ssh-agent -l

I get nothing (and really the ssh login doesn't work
if the original id_rsa is removed).

Can anybody help me?

Thanks!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] acme search backwards

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 3 September 2015 at 16:14, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> somehow I thought that was going to be the response, but that's not really 
> true unless acme has been rewritten on the lower level kbd model.
>
> that model also introduces user space kbd control, so good luck using it in 
> the event of panic.

Sorry, I don't orient.
Does it all mean that I could nowadays possibly get the wanted behaviour
(using, say, ctrl+3b for the purpose) on 9front while I cannot on
the original plan9?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] acme search backwards

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 3 September 2015 at 11:16, Mathieu Lonjaret
> https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.os.plan9/Q6R9iuu0lE8/u3h-FUnXOmEJ

Thanks for the link!
I wonder, why is it that they claim that implementing the functionality
of:
3b = search forward, shift+3b = search backward
is not feasible on plan9...

Ruda

[9fans] acme search backwards

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hi,

by chance, hasn't somebody changed acme so that one can easily,
say with a ctrl key, change the direction of the search done by the
3rd mouse button? I find it very missing.

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] listing windows for p9p acme

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 2 September 2015 at 11:54, Mathieu Lonjaret
> I got annoyed at how, usually with many windows open, I sometimes struggle
> to find where one of my windows is.

yes. when there are many windows, the situation gets chaotic,
that's my experience, too.

Further, the heuristics of placing new windows does not really help
at that moment :(

btw. Has somebody tried this?
http://c9x.me/edit/

Ruda

Re: [9fans] acme search backwards

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 2 September 2015 at 16:37, Alexander Kapshuk
 wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 5:01 PM,   wrote:
>>> Also there was a discussion on 9fans about it with other
>>> suggestions/solutions.
>>
>>  :-/RE
>>
>> is what I remember Russ recommending,  It's not perfect, but it does help.
>>
>> Lucio.
>>
>>
>
> Page 4 of A Tutorial for Sam Command Language, by Rob Pike, suggests
> the following usage:

> Just precede the pattern with a minus
> sign, which reverses the direction of the search:
> -/Emacs/
>
> Similarly,
> $-/Emacs/
> finds the last occurrence in the file, so
> 0/Emacs/,$-/Emacs/
> selects the text from the first to last Emacs, inclusive.


I actually know all of what you write, and the question
was meant explicitly differently.
I.e., the suggestions you mention are still far from reciprocal
to a b3-click on any word in the text file.
Copying (or even selecting a whole portion of) a word to get
it into a formula like :-/.../ somewhere is ugly, to say the least.

Thanks anyway!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] p9p sed vs linux sed

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 12 August 2015 at 15:47,  lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:
 You can't write a file in vi that does not end in a newline.

You, however, can do it pretty easily with cat.
(Sam asks you if you mean it, acme just does it.)

 So, I vote that text handling utilities should deal with all lines in
 text files uniformly,even the last one.

I encountered the problem when I selected a couple of words in acme
which I wanted to bracket with sed with something like

| sed 's/^//' | sed 's/$//'

and suddenly you see...

On the other hand, as you say, it's a matter of taste.
(If the behaviour is not prescribed.)

R Sykora

Re: [9fans] p9p sed vs linux sed

[Rudolf Sykora]

 From the POSIX description (used here as some reference), when a
 line is entered in the pattern space, the trailing new line is
 discarded. When the pattern space is written to stdout it seems
 that implicitely the new line is restored---the POSIX description
 says that the input shall be a text file; and ISTR that with an
 editor, a newline is entered to the last line because a text file
 is considered to be an array of newline terminated lines.

 This means that it is a grey zone and depends on things that are not all
 explicitely stated and that the p9 sed(1) is not, from the/some
 specification, at fault.

Thanks for some explanation!
I now understand a bit more.
It's a pity, anyhow.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] p9p sed vs linux sed

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 12 August 2015 at 09:48, Ingo Krabbe ikrabbe@gmail.com wrote:
 You mean perseus=; is your prompt? Strange.

Yes. perseus=; is the prompt.

 Actually sed is a line based command and should add a newline, imho.

I don't think it should add anything. For itself it should be able to count
newlines (because of the possible use of addresses), but otherwise it
should not do anything extra (it should be possible to pipe through
two seds, for instance).

Ruda

Re: [9fans] p9p mouse problem

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 31 March 2015 at 15:37, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
 I now encounter a problem with my mouse in plan9port.
 Every now and then it happens that my left button starts
 to behave as the right button. What helps is pressing a
 ctrl key on the keyboard: immediately after that things
 are ok again for a while.

 I now see this happen on several machines... (always
 on Slackware)
 Hasn't anybody else seen this? Or does anybody
 have a clue about what could cause it?
 (It only happens in p9p programs [sam, acme], never
 in linux ones.)

Ok, I still haven't passed over the problem. As I see it
on two individual machines with a common system,
I think it might be system related, slackware 14.1. I could
try and upgrade some packages to the current slackware
branch (i.e. substitute probably some X packages) if I
only could guess which part of the system could possibly
be responsible. Is there anybody who could guess?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] p9p mouse problem

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hi everybody,

On 18 February 2015 at 11:14, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
 I now encounter a problem with my mouse in plan9port.
 Every now and then it happens that my left button starts
 to behave as the right button. What helps is pressing a
 ctrl key on the keyboard: immediately after that things
 are ok again for a while.

I now see this happen on several machines... (always
on Slackware)
Hasn't anybody else seen this? Or does anybody
have a clue about what could cause it?
(It only happens in p9p programs [sam, acme], never
in linux ones.)


Thanks
Ruda

[9fans] ssh handshake failed

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

trying to connect from 9atom via ssh (v2) to my linux machine I get:
ssh: dial: handshake failed

What should I check that might have gone wrong?
(The machine is otherwise accessible from other systems via ssh.)

Thank you
Ruda

[9fans] vt and mouse

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

is it so that one can't use mouse when running 'vt'
(I tried to run ssh within it.)

Thanks
Ruda

[9fans] p9p mouse problem

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I now encounter a problem with my mouse in plan9port.
Every now and then it happens that my left button starts
to behave as the right button. What helps is pressing a
ctrl key on the keyboard: immediately after that things
are ok again for a while.

Has anybody fought with this before? Any solution?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] adm user on plan9 raspberry pi

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 4 February 2015 at 10:52, Richard Miller 9f...@hamnavoe.com wrote:
 I need to access to /adm/timezone to change the timezone.

 How do I log as user adm ?

 To change /adm/timezone you only need to be part of group adm.  If
 you're logged in (ie booted) as glenda, just add glenda temporarily
 to the group using the fossil console (as current hostowner, glenda
 has authority over the local fossil).

 % echo uname adm +glenda /srv/fscons
 % ... do stuff with /adm/timezone
 % echo uname adm -glenda /srv/fscons

It's interesting I was solving the same question a couple of days ago.
(I was installing 9atom.)
I think R. Miller's answer is closest to what christophe.DAMAS needed.
(On 9atom one is asked during booting for a user, so there it can be
enough to really 'just log in as adm'.)

It's a pitty this is not as clear as it should be on the wiki.

Anyhow; a related question that came across my mind:

How does a user list all groups they is in?
(to list all users in a group one can
uname group
on the fossil console)

and

What is the difference between
con /srv/fscons
and
con -l /srv/fscons
?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] 9atom downtime

[Rudolf Sykora]

 http://mirror.9grid.fr/

I wonder what the difference is between
9atom.iso.bz2
and
+9atom.iso.bz2

And what is kernel.mkfs.bz2?

Thanks
Ruda

On 27 January 2015 at 15:46, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi David, Erik,

 On 27 January 2015 at 15:22, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 On Tue Jan 27 06:13:39 PST 2015, 0in...@gmail.com wrote:
 A mirror of the 9atom CD image is available on:

 http://mirror.9grid.fr/

 good. So I may download and use. :)


 the usb image is the primary distribution media these days.

 I confess I don't understand. Is there a difference in the software,
 or what do you mean?

 Thanks
 Ruda

Re: [9fans] 9atom downtime

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hi David, Erik,

On 27 January 2015 at 15:22, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 On Tue Jan 27 06:13:39 PST 2015, 0in...@gmail.com wrote:
 A mirror of the 9atom CD image is available on:

 http://mirror.9grid.fr/

good. So I may download and use. :)


 the usb image is the primary distribution media these days.

I confess I don't understand. Is there a difference in the software,
or what do you mean?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] 9atom downtime

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hi David,

 A mirror of the 9atom CD image is available on:

 http://mirror.9grid.fr/

I am starting to feel like an idiot again.
What I can find there seems to have 0 bytes.
(see the screenshot)
What am I doing wrong?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] 9atom downtime

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 27 January 2015 at 16:41, David du Colombier 0in...@gmail.com wrote:
 I am starting to feel like an idiot again.
 What I can find there seems to have 0 bytes.
 (see the screenshot)
 What am I doing wrong?

 These are the images from today, but the ftp.9atom.org
 server is currently down. You have to look in an older
 directory.

ok :)
but the most recent (nonzero) one is then more then half a year old,

9atom-2014-07-08

What is the logic about when a image is taken?
I guess there must have been changes in the meanwhile, or
am I wrong and you take an image always when the file on 9atom.org changes?
If there have been changes, and if I use this (older) image, will I be able
to somehow get in sync with 9atom later on?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] 9atom downtime

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 27 January 2015 at 16:03, David du Colombier 0in...@gmail.com wrote:
 I wonder what the difference is between
 9atom.iso.bz2
 and
 +9atom.iso.bz2

 I think one is more recent than the other.

the one with + seems to be always (when it exists) smaller by about
2 MB ...

Ruda

Re: [9fans] 9atom downtime

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 24 January 2015 at 20:48, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 looks like a power even took out the motherboard.  hopefully i can find
 some parts early next week.

 - erik

does that mean I can't download 9atom now?
(the web page www.9atom.org is up, but going to 386 iso
[ftp.9atom.org] doesn't work)

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] plan9port .XCompose suddenly doesn't work

[Rudolf Sykora]

I am puzzled. Anyway, it actually works in acme too,
but differently than I remember from before.

I now have to press and *release* the compose key
and then continue; i.e. to write alpha I have to
- press left alt (my compose key)
- release left alt
- press shift and 8 (together it's *)
- release those
- press a

This is different from the behaviour in xterm, where the
compose key can be hold down during the step of shift+8.

So at least it works somehow.

Ruda



On 21 January 2015 at 17:12, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello,

 until recently I happily used a generated ~/.XCompose file on p9p
 (see http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man7/keyboard.html)
 to be able to write various characters in a way similar to p9.
 But now something must have changed.
 I can use the composition in, say, xterm (it works),
 but when I start acme (or sam), it doesn't work.

 Contrary to running xterm, I do not see anything in the
 output of

 strace -e open acme | grep Compose


 Does somebody have a clue?

 Thanks
 Ruda

[9fans] plan9port .XCompose suddenly doesn't work

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

until recently I happily used a generated ~/.XCompose file on p9p
(see http://swtch.com/plan9port/man/man7/keyboard.html)
to be able to write various characters in a way similar to p9.
But now something must have changed.
I can use the composition in, say, xterm (it works),
but when I start acme (or sam), it doesn't work.

Contrary to running xterm, I do not see anything in the
output of

strace -e open acme | grep Compose


Does somebody have a clue?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] questions about 9atom and 9legacy; and their updates

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 19 December 2014 at 04:11, da Tyga cyberfo...@gmail.com wrote:
 You could also consider 9vx especially if you are tempted to try running
 under Qemu or some other virtualised environment.
 Although I'm only at the exploratory stage, I find 9vx more useful than
 9front.

Well, I'd really like to try p9 proper again, especially because I want it
to work as a file server with backup functionality (fossil+venti).
Thus I do not want it to be under any virtual machine or whatever...

I haven't ever use 9vx. In what sense you find it more useful than
9front?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] questions about 9atom and 9legacy; and their updates

[Rudolf Sykora]

Thanks, David, for the answers.


 That said, now that Plan 9 is not as actively maintained
 as it used to be, 9legacy might move to his own
 full distribution.

Are then 9legacy and 9atom too apart to somehow
merge them?

Ruda

[9fans] questions about 9atom and 9legacy; and their updates

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I've been recently reconsidering employment of
plan9. And (probably like many others) I find myself
indecisive about whom to follow. It seems that the
most conservative option is Bell Labs (BL). Then, still in
sync, there is 9legacy. Slightly separate there is 9atom,
and finally there is 9front. The latter two probably
live on their own. The questions that arise:

1) How often does Bell Lab's version change? How often/well
do patches from 9legacy enter BL's version? Some numbers?

2) How do 9atom and 9legacy notice that there has been
a change in BL? (I'd guess that 9legacy could notice
immediately, but ...) How is it with 9atom?

3) How is updating supposed to work in case of 9atom
and 9legacy (as compared to BL's replica) I.e., when
I decide to use either 9atom or 9legacy and at some
point there is some change in them, will I / can I
easily notice and follow?

4) Is there any good reason not to follow 9atom, but
BL instead?

5) I am puzzled about licences. At one point I almost
thought that the software is actually BSD-like
(i.e. you can do almost whatever, no copyleft,
Lucent Public License Version 1.02). Now I read:

In February 2014 the University of California, Berkeley, has been
authorised by the current Plan 9 copyright holder – Alcatel-Lucent
– to release all Plan 9 software previously governed by the Lucent
Public License, Version 1.02 under the GNU General Public License,
Version 2

so the mentioned univesity will offer it under GPL, which is viral
(is copyleft). That surprises me...

Thanks for your comments!

Ruda

Re: [9fans] advice? fossil+venti (p9), vbackup+venti (p9p) vs. some other means of backup

[Rudolf Sykora]

Dear David, Anthony,

Thanks to both of you.
I'll try to use some of your suggestions.

Ruda

On 11 December 2014 at 21:04, Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net wrote:
 Does anybody rely on a backup scheme using, say,
 vbackup+venti on linux? Does it work well, or would
 you recomment other means of doing a backup?

 Not precisely what you're asking, but likely close enough experience to be 
 useful:

 When last I was responsible for a bunch of unix boxes, I was using venti for 
 backup. I started off using vbackup, but switched to something vac-based 
 pretty quickly. I realized there was a ton of data on there that I didn't 
 feel the need to keep backed up (the OS itself, but more significantly nearly 
 a TB of transcoded video (we kept the source backed up)). Also, I don't think 
 I could get at the vbackup images from Plan 9; the vac ones work fine, with 
 some oddities based on file system differences. These were OS X systems, but 
 I was just using stock p9p stuff; it should run fine on linux. I was sending 
 to a remote venti running on Plan 9.

 Using vac instead of vbackup increases your recovery time (you have to 
 reinstall the OS  tools, and in my case we'd have to re-transcode the 
 video), but we had a warm spare and RAID to guard agains simple disk 
 failures; this was mostly for genuine disaster recovery (although being able 
 to mount and cd around my backup history from my Plan 9 workstation was a 
 huge benefit).

 I also ran something similar on my laptop. I've stopped using that regularly 
 in favor of Time Machine, but still use it as an occasional one-off for 
 disaster recovery (although it's not off-site).

 I guess there are also people using fossil+venti on
 p9. Are those happy?

 Yes, quite. Ever since someone (Richard Miller, I think) tracked down that 
 persistent snapshot hang bug, it's been great. Most of the complaining about 
 fossil's stability comes from outdated info. The fossil+venti combo isn't the 
 fastest option (Erik's kenfs kicks ass there), but the tradeoffs work well 
 for my needs.

 I am looking for a sustainable means of backup,
 mainly on linux, and am avaluating different options
 (rdiff-backup, rsnapshot, dump/restore, rdup...)

 I would use this system again if I had unix servers I cared about. For my 
 MacBook, Time Machine gets the edge mostly because it's automatic.

 This is not quite the latest version, but you can take a look at 
 /n/sources/contrib/anothy/bin/rc/vacbak. You can also take a look at 
 .../anothy/lib/tet.(cron files xfiles) for examples of config files I used on 
 a system called tet.

 You're reminding me I've been meaning to come up with an off-site backup plan 
 for my system, which I haven't had in a few years...

[9fans] advice? fossil+venti (p9), vbackup+venti (p9p) vs. some other means of backup

[Rudolf Sykora]

Dear all,

I'd like to ask for an advice/experience.

Does anybody rely on a backup scheme using, say,
vbackup+venti on linux? Does it work well, or would
you recomment other means of doing a backup?

I guess there are also people using fossil+venti on
p9. Are those happy?

I am looking for a sustainable means of backup,
mainly on linux, and am avaluating different options
(rdiff-backup, rsnapshot, dump/restore, rdup...)

I have some 500 GB to care about (usual home use +
some backup of computational data)

Thanks for your comments
and sorry for a bit vague question.

Ruda

[9fans] rc shell script run by cron on linux

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I tried to run a cron job on linux using an rc script
and bumped into a problem.
When the job tries to be run I get something like

/usr/local/plan9/rcmain: rc (/home/sykora/plan9port/bin/
rc): .: can't open: No such file or directory

(I don't know why it starts with /usr/local...; but it is
probably not really relevant here.)

In my crontab I have specified a PATH containing
/home/sykora/plan9port/bin
(where rc itself is located)
but that seems to no be enough...
(If I hadn't I wouldn't have got to rcmain ever; so rc
calls for some reason rcmain [why? must it?])

Have anybody ever solved a problem like this?
(What is the minimum I have to have in order to
run rc script on linux?)

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] rc shell script run by cron on linux

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 8 November 2014 14:27, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 8 November 2014 12:44, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:

 Have anybody ever solved a problem like this?
 (What is the minimum I have to have in order to
 run rc script on linux?)


 Just a guess but rc needs the bootstrap rcmain file, which it is looking for
 in the default
 directory, which is in /usr/local. I think if you set/export
 PLAN9=/home/sykora/plan9port
 as well as PATH, it might work.

Thanks, exporting PLAN9 at a suitable place seems to have helped.

Still, only if you can tell (I will test it at some point anyhow), is
1) rc binary
2) rcmain
3) suitable setting of PLAN9 variable
enough if you want to pass your rc script to somebody
who does not have p9p installed?
(Say, I wrote some rc scripts and now other people want
to use it...)

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Rudolf Sykora]

Dear Anthony,

On 14 October 2014 20:40, Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net wrote:
 After that, I can run Mail box1 and Mail box2 in Acme, and both are
 updated as one would expect. Faces, which was started earlier and needs
 to know about specific mailbox names to monitor, is not.

 The message you cited implied you're doing this from p9p, not Plan 9. Is
 that the case? That would be a big difference.


I believe at that time I really used p9p, as you write.
(p9 proper is just not enough for my work.)
So if things are that much different (and more, you checked
it is ok with p9 proper), this issue is only relevant for p9p.

Thanks for the note.
Ruda

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 14 October 2014 11:09, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote:
 What features do you need that plan9 is missing (honest question)?

Since I can't run a dedicated mail server and I want to be able to read
mail from anywhere, I have to use imap/pop3 from some server I have
no control over. So I use google's gmail.

Then:

-- Running imap with multiple mboxes (folders or whatever) did not work
for me (only one of them was updated).

-- Threading did not work properly.

-- When something went wrong during 'sending' from acme Mail, I did not
get any information that the mail had not been sent. So actually I always
had to control sending an email from, say, gmail's web interface.
(Or had to look manually into the logs.) That's a pretty bad behaviour.

-- You can't easily search within all mail like you can using gmail
(for anything in the body, withing given dates, from somebody,
combinations, etc.

-- I don't know how to correctly 'forward' an email from within acme Mail.

-- the fact that gmail helps you to fill addresses when writing an email
is extremely handy and useful.

That's just a few things.

[The worst I feel about www interface of gmail is the lack of a good
editor (undo, formatting). Thus I often prepare the email in acme
but then send it from gmail's interface.]


Ruda

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 14 October 2014 17:22, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 -- Running imap with multiple mboxes (folders or whatever) did not work
 for me (only one of them was updated).

 tested with nupas, and it does work.  the default folder seperator in upas is 
 /,
 as one would expect, since folder is just a windows-centric synonym for
 directory.  one can make + work too by adding a rewrite rule for it.

 - erik


http://9fans.net/archive/2012/12/62
is what was my problem back then

Ruda

Re: [9fans] Many bugs in eqn(1)

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

 I'm somewhat disappointed about the troff software in Plan9.

Yes, that's understandable...
It seems to me nobody actually uses the software heavily here.


 I did few initial tests with eqn(1) and in addition to the TAB problem
 I saw that the root sign line and large brackets are not aligned. The
 attached file shows these problems. It can be processed to PostScript
 with

These two problems I noticed, too.
About the problem with misaligned brackets I wrote, I think, before,
and I also mentioned where the problem may be. It is actually
a few lines in a postscript file that is loaded before your document
is read. I had to comment out some 'adjustments'.

For the square-root thing I actually wrote an awk script that
corrects it in the ps output. Not really the right solution,
but works.

I may share it and/or find some more details if you want it.


 Does nobody use troff on Plan9? eqn(1) is maybe from around 1990, why
 had these bugs not been fixed?

Simply people don't use it. It's a pitty, but it's so.
I tried and finally managed to write my PhD thesis with it,
even full of mathematics...
I set up means for back-references, creation of contents,
etc.

Note that there are also bugs in the p9 version wrt the p9p
version. It's not 100% the same.

But the topic is broader as well. E.g., if you just compare
what you get from groff eqn, heirloom eqn, ..., you don't
get the same. Further there is the unicode support issue,
use of opentype fonts etc. The mathematics is not on par
with TeX, it needs much more attention to get a good result.
Using the macro language is a bad choice today, which was
confirmed by the authors --- it's not lucid and is error
prone. (Pehaps the way is to use the 'pm' macro and
post-processor.)

(Perhaps see also the work by Ali Gholami Rudi and his
neatroff.)


Ruda

Re: [9fans] Many bugs in eqn(1)

[Rudolf Sykora]

Dear Carsten,

first, I don't understand German (I am Czech), but I used google translate,
hopefully getting the meaning.

Second, it's generally better (unless it's really personal or highly technical)
to keep the discussion within the mailing list, since then other people
can also contribute; I am far from an expert. Thus I have brought the
discussion back to the list.

  These two problems I noticed, too.
  About the problem with misaligned brackets I wrote, I think, before,
  And I therefore Mentioned where the problem-'may be. It is Actually
  A few lines in a postscript file did is loaded before your document
  Is read. I had to comment out some 'adjustments'.

 This is not a problem of eqn (1)? If you have more info on this, I'm
 interested.

search the archive:

http://9fans.net/archive/2011/11/106
some more ...
http://9fans.net/archive/?q=sykora+eqngo=Grep



  For the square-root thing I actually wrote to awk script did
  Corrects it in the ps output. Not really the right solution,
  But works.
 
  I may share it and / or find some more details if you want it.

 The root problem I would like to get to the root. All the world has
 yet used DWB. And all the books with documentation eqn were set so.
 How is it possible that can be such a gross error in DWB 3.2? (So I've
 noticed that only at the cross-check with plan9port that it is
 included there as well.)

Yes, it would be better to go to the root of the problems.
But for some reason it looked easier and faster for me
to just correct the output. I was then under time pressure.


  I tried and finally managed to write my PhD thesis with it,
  Even full of mathematics ...
  I set up Means for back-references, creation of contents,
  Etc.

 I had my documents always set with groff. When testing with other
 versions I see many mistakes. Of course I thought at first that
 contains the groff error. Gradually, I fear that the opposite is the
 case. With Plan9 as some documents are not even processed until the
 end.

I would say that groff is *much, much* more tested software.
P9 troff is basically dead.


 I do not understand the whole character set problem. How can it be
 that not even the standard R-Font is complete. Was really the license
 issue so serious?

As far as I can tell the system is simply old and the various
parts of it have not been really mantained. It has also never
been put together so that the letter coverage would be good.
Further there is a licencing issue on (I think) Lucida fonts
(which can be only used on p9 but not on p9p),
some of it, however, was replaced by another set.
(I don't know much more, search the archive, or perhaps
somebody else will tell more.)
I believe that majority of font problems would now be solved
differently; note that heirloom troff (contrary to groff) can
read opentype.


  Note thatthere are so bugs in the p9 version wrt the p9p
  Version. It's not 100% the same.

 I'm doing me very hard with Plan9 and would rather P9P used. I have
 also seen the difference now. Looks like that changes to P9-troff
 would no longer flow to P9P?

I'd rather say that p9p software is the source these days.


  Using the macro language is a bad choice today, Which Team?
  Confirmed by the authors

 What do you mean? Which macro language?

troff is a macro language.


  Prone. (Pehaps the way is to use the 'pm' macro and
  Post-processor.)

 pm I've never used it, what is it?

google search for
Page makeup by postprocessing text formatter output
by Kernighan  Wyk

Ruda

Re: [9fans] Many bugs in eqn(1)

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 13 August 2014 12:57, Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de wrote:

 Since nobody seems to use troff on P9 I regarded it as off-topic.

The traffic is low enough to discuss any matter related to p9(p) here,
I believe. And it can be used as a back-reference in the future.


 http://9fans.net/archive/?q=sykora+eqngo=Grep

 I can't believe that TeX should not produce better results, but
 thats really OT...

I don't understand what you mean.


 I'd rather say that p9p software is the source these days.

 Really?  Ok, if I compare the sources it looks like this.  Is this
 true for troff only or for p9p in general?

 So p9 troff posts may be better done on the p9p list?

I think whoever uses p9p reads this list.
I personally even don't know there is a special p9p list.


 troff is a macro language.

 This I completely don't understand.  If someone has much time
 and uses only low level requests than the word macro should
 be improper?

 What is not a macro language, i.e. what do you suggest to use instead?

 Page makeup by postprocessing text formatter output
 by Kernighan  Wyk

 I also do not understand that.  It is possible to write very good macro
 packages for troff.  Also TeX can produce very good documents.  Ok,
 this is OT again.

Just read the document.
And it is not only about producing good documents meaning
good-looking. It's about scalability and readability, too.
Nobody would tell you LaTeX is readable. PlainTeX is, but
by itself, it doesn't know much (like plain troff).
Twisting a macro language around is often difficult, has many
pitfalls, may be difficult to debug, and if it grows beyond a certain
level, it collapses. That's at least what I think.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] Many bugs in eqn(1)

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 13 August 2014 14:16, Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de wrote:
  http://9fans.net/archive/?q=sykora+eqngo=Grep
 
  I can't believe that TeX should not produce better results, but
  thats really OT...

 I don't understand what you mean.

 I refer to http://9fans.net/archive/2011/12/113.  I would expect
 TeX to produce the best math results.  But this should not be
 discussed here.

Still I don't get what you mean. In that message we say
1) quality of TeX typesetting is better,
2) the way the equation is written (the syntax) in eqn feels
better to me.


 And it is not only about producing good documents meaning
 good-looking. It's about scalability and readability, too.
 Nobody would tell you LaTeX is readable. PlainTeX is, but
 by itself, it doesn't know much (like plain troff).

 I would completely disagree :)
 LaTeX is very good readable (IMO better than e.g. troff -ms),
 PlainTeX is totally unreadable to me (I'v used it for a longer time.)

Just to be sure. I don't mean readability of documents to be typeset.
I mean the source code of the whole system. I.e., in the case of LaTeX,
the readability/understanding/hackability of the macros' definitions.

R

[9fans] chess?

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

perhaps it's there but I can't find it...

Is there a chess game on plan9?

Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] secstore in p9p, how to use well

[Rudolf Sykora]

so nobody uses secstored+factotum+ssh-agent on linux
with p9p like I do?

Thanks!
Ruda

On 19 December 2013 17:22, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello everyone,

 already for some time I've been using secstored+factotum+ssh-agent
 on linux with p9p. The machine, call it 1, runs basically all the time and
 let's presume I am logged on it all the time, too.
 The problem/inconvenience I've had is when I connect to this machine
 via ssh and want to use the system to connect to yet another machine,
 call it 2.
 The best would be if all worked transparently and as soon as I manage
 to log in to machine 1 I could easily proceed an use the running
 ssh-agent to get me to machine 2. However, I don't know how to set this
 up.

 So far I have, among other things, this in my .profile.
 --
 secstore=localhost export secstore
 NAMESPACE=/tmp/ns.ruda.0 export NAMESPACE
 if [ ! -d $NAMESPACE ]; then
 mkdir $NAMESPACE
 fi
 auth=localhost export auth
 secstored
 factotum
 eval `9 ssh-agent -e`
 ---


 This ends with the following when I connect:
 --
 secstored: tcp!*!5356: Address already in use

 secstore password:
 9pserve: announce unix!/tmp/ns.ruda.0/factotum: Address already in use
 factotum: post9pservice factotum: 9pserve failed
 ssh-agent: announce unix!/tmp/ns.ruda.0/ssh-agent.socket: Address already in 
 use
 --

 which is not unexpected, however, whatever I tried didn't get me to
 the desired effect.

 Can you suggest what I should do?

 Thank you!
 Ruda Sykora

Re: [9fans] chess?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 5 January 2014 12:27, Conor Williams conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote:
 term%9fs sources
 term% cd /n/sources/contrib
 term% du -a . | grep chess

Thanks, this is possibly a way, but, at least in my case, this takes ages...
(Say it can run for 45 mins; maybe much more; I do not know the true
reason why,
but I intuitively suspect the protocol.)
Therefore I asked for a more specific pointer.
Also, generally, there should be a quicker way.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] chess?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 5 January 2014 14:12,  ste...@kamalatta.dyndns.org wrote:
 It runs much faster if you search in the lsr index file:

 % 9fs sources
 % cd /n/sources
 % time grep chess lsr
 ./contrib/steve/root/sys/src/cmd/mkmk/9port/gnu/chess 755 1229510622 697
 ./plan9/sys/src/cmd/gs/examples/chess.ps 664 1137452689 61791
 0.58u 0.18s 315.60r  grep chess lsr

 So here are results I found  ^^^

 stevie


yes. this is much faster, thanks.
the only question left for me is how often
the lsr file gets regenerated...

thanks
ruda

Re: [9fans] chess?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 5 January 2014 15:36, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 Thanks, this is possibly a way, but, at least in my case, this takes ages...
 (Say it can run for 45 mins; maybe much more; I do not know the true
 reason why,
 but I intuitively suspect the protocol.)
 Therefore I asked for a more specific pointer.
 Also, generally, there should be a quicker way.

 it's easy to blame the protocol.  but it's more than that.
 0.  the i/o unit is just 8k, this means that directories like
 /sys/src/9 take 2 or more round trips.  this is trivial to fix
 by upping MAXRPC in devmnt.  i've uppted this to
 56k + IOHDRSZ.  this makes a difference even when the
 rtt is 50µs.

 1.  (or 0a) the kernel won't issue more than one concurrent
 rpc for the same request.

 2.  find/du are single threaded, so they they take full rtt latency
 on each syscall.

 there's a small demonstration of 2 at the end of this email.

 - erik

 ---
 note that except for the fcp test, rtt dominates.  even 384kbps
 is more than enough to keep up.  in fact, except for the fcp
 test time_link0 * rtt_link0/rtt_link1 tracks pretty closely with
 the actual result.  since link1 is dsl, keeping track of the actual
 rtt could have reduced some of this error.

 link0:
 rtt ~ 32ms uplink/downlink ~ 100mbps/100mbps:

 0.29u 0.37s 895.45r  rc -c find | grep chess  # status= find 7086421: 
 errors|
 0.03u 0.03s 68.77r   rc -c cp lsr /tmp  grep chess /tmp/lsr
 .0.04u 0.10s 5.40r   rc -c fcp lsr /tmp  grep chess /tmp/lsr

 link1:
 rtt ~ 52ms uplink/downlink ~ .384mbps/1.5mbps
 0.00u 0.00s 1468.26r rc -c find | grep chess
 0.00u 0.01s 131.03r  rc -c cp lsr /tmp  grep chess /tmp/lsr /dev/null
 0.00u 0.00s 33.61r   rc -c fcp lsr /tmp  grep chess /tmp/lsr /dev/null


Thanks for the information!

R

Re: [9fans] chess?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 5 January 2014 14:12,  ste...@kamalatta.dyndns.org wrote:
 % 9fs sources
 % cd /n/sources
 % time grep chess lsr
 ./contrib/steve/root/sys/src/cmd/mkmk/9port/gnu/chess 755 1229510622 697
 ./plan9/sys/src/cmd/gs/examples/chess.ps 664 1137452689 61791
 0.58u 0.18s 315.60r  grep chess lsr

 So here are results I found  ^^^

So now I know there is something in Steve's contrib.
However, I do not really know how to proceed.
It seems to me that
contrib/steve/root/sys/src/cmd/mkmk/9port/gnu/chess
is just some script whose use is one big unknown to me.
Its purpose seems to be to create a mkfile and is probably
intended to be run in a directory with gnuchess source
(which is (?) to be downloaded separately).
I have installed the mkmk thing using contrib/gui, downloaded
the gnuchess source, extracted it, copied the chess script
into it, ran it, but it produced quite a few error messages.

Can anybody tell me what they did to get the chess program
running? (Will there be a board as well?)

Thank you.

Ruda

PS.: It's a pity there isn't such a thing like plan9 that would
just work :)

[9fans] secstore in p9p, how to use well

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello everyone,

already for some time I've been using secstored+factotum+ssh-agent
on linux with p9p. The machine, call it 1, runs basically all the time and
let's presume I am logged on it all the time, too.
The problem/inconvenience I've had is when I connect to this machine
via ssh and want to use the system to connect to yet another machine,
call it 2.
The best would be if all worked transparently and as soon as I manage
to log in to machine 1 I could easily proceed an use the running
ssh-agent to get me to machine 2. However, I don't know how to set this
up.

So far I have, among other things, this in my .profile.
--
secstore=localhost export secstore
NAMESPACE=/tmp/ns.ruda.0 export NAMESPACE
if [ ! -d $NAMESPACE ]; then
mkdir $NAMESPACE
fi
auth=localhost export auth
secstored
factotum
eval `9 ssh-agent -e`
---


This ends with the following when I connect:
--
secstored: tcp!*!5356: Address already in use

secstore password:
9pserve: announce unix!/tmp/ns.ruda.0/factotum: Address already in use
factotum: post9pservice factotum: 9pserve failed
ssh-agent: announce unix!/tmp/ns.ruda.0/ssh-agent.socket: Address already in use
--

which is not unexpected, however, whatever I tried didn't get me to
the desired effect.

Can you suggest what I should do?

Thank you!
Ruda Sykora

Re: [9fans] mk time-check/slice issue

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 19 December 2013 20:22, Blake McBride bl...@mcbride.name wrote:
 Agreed.  I enjoy reasoned debate.  I don't enjoy being told the reason is
 because that's the way we do it.  That is not reasoned debate.  It is club
 support.

I believe, from reading this mailing list for some time, you must be ready
to find many stupid reasonings. But opposite is, fortunately, also true: there
are people here who can help.

Second, you bumped into something which is not 100% to your liking, but on
the other hand is simple and works. The simplicity is, in my
opinion, what has always
counted for people seriously-involved in plan9 and is one of the main
advantages of the plan9 programs.

Third, it would be, from my experience, an error to expect that there are no
errors/flaws in the plan9 programs. When I started to play with plan9,
I thought:
it is simple, there are no errors. But in reality, whatever I tried,
it did not quite
work. So, my advice is to be ready to find such problems nearly all the time.
And since many people who created the programs are gone by now, there is
often little effort to correct these, even if there are true bugs.

That's what I think.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] acme/sam language question

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 31 October 2013 20:24, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 31 October 2013 16:49, Friedrich Psiorz f.psi...@gmx.de wrote:
 It works for me, but I found another inconsistency.

 I tried it on p9p and 9vx, both in acme and sam.

 /A/+#0;/B/-#0
 g/CC/ s/CC/DD/g
 p

 Well. If I use these commands one by one inside p9p acme
 (and probably sam, too), I truly get what I want (and what
 you say). The problem appears when I want to run it from
 a script like this:

 sam -d EOF $1  [2] /dev/null
 /A/+#0;/B/-#0
 g/CC/ s/CC/DD/g
 p
 EOF

 then you get, since the g is on a seperate line, an extra
 output from the line before g. And if you try to join g with
 the match like

 sam -d EOF $1  [2] /dev/null
 /A/+#0;/B/-#0 g/CC/ s/CC/DD/g
 p
 EOF

 then you get no output if CC is not between A and B
 (although when it is there, you get what I want).
 In neither case I am fully satisfied. :)

 Thanks
 Ruda

So far I still do not know how to do it properly...
But it seems nobody here proposes anything...

Thanks for any clue
Ruda

Re: [9fans] acme/sam language question

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 29 October 2013 17:56, Friedrich Psiorz f.psi...@gmx.de wrote:
 this should do the trick

 /A/+#0;/B/-#0
 g/CC/ s/CC/DD/g
 p

Thanks for the suggestion, the g construct didn't come to my mind.
However, it doesn't work for me: again, if CC is there, it works;
if it's not, then the final dot only contains the match for the /A/ instead
of the whole stretch from A to B.

Ruda

[9fans] acme/sam language question

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

how can I set a dot from after A to before B, then make a global
substitution, within thus set dot, of CC to DD and print the resulting
text?

I.e., if there isn't any CC between A and B, just print what's between
A and B, if there is, change it to DD and print all between A and B.

I have sth like this

/A/+#0;/B/-#0 s/CC/DD/g
p

which works if there *is* the CC, but not if it is not there; then the
s command just resets the dot to an empty set.

Thank you
Ruda

Re: [9fans] acme: send dot to the stdin of a more complicated command

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I tried to modify Russ' script below to be usable on p9p. I came up with

#!/usr/local/plan9/bin/rc

if(! ~ $#* 1) {
echo 'usage: Run title' [1=2]
exit 1
}

id=`{awk -v 'pat='$1 '$6 ~ pat {print $1}' {9p read acme/index}}
if(~ $#id 0) {
echo 'no match for pattern' [1=2]
exit 2
}
if(! ~ $#id 1) {
echo 'ambiguous pattern' [1=2]
exit 3
}
if(~ `{wc -w {9p read acme/$id/rdsel}} 0) {
echo 'no command selected' [1=2]
exit 4
}
#exec cat {9p read acme/$id/rdsel}
exec /usr/local/plan9/bin/rc {9p read acme/$id/rdsel}


but the last line doesn't really do what I want, yielding the error:
Run: exit 1
rc: /dev/fd/5:2: token EOF: syntax error

can anybody help me with what is wrong?
The commented-out line with cat prints correctly what I have
selected in the other window (see the description of the original
script), e.g.
awk '{print $2}'

Thank you!
Ruda



On 8 June 2009 20:15, Russ Cox r...@swtch.com wrote:
 well, though an inspiring idea, it doesn't sound to be much practical:
 1) I usually have a special window in which I have many commands. I
 then select the one needed and chord it to the appropriate window
 (i.e. I don't use the whole contents of a window).
 2) sometimes I have more such windows.

 This is an interesting usage model.  I've never seen it before.
 The power of acme is that you can extend it with external
 programs.  The script below implements this usage; I called it Run.
 You can type and select your command in one window, with a name matching
 pattern, and then in the other window's tag execute Run pattern.
 Run finds the window with a title matching pattern, pulls out the
 selected text, and runs it through rc.

 See http://swtch.com/~rsc/acme-Run.png for an illustration.

 Russ


 #!/bin/rc

 if(! ~ $#* 1) {
 echo 'usage: Run title' [1=2]
 exit usage
 }

 id=`{awk -v 'pat='$1 '$6 ~ pat {print $1}' /mnt/wsys/index}
 if(~ $#id 0) {
 echo 'no match for pattern' [1=2]
 exit none
 }
 if(! ~ $#id 1) {
 echo 'ambiguous pattern' [1=2]
 exit ambiguous
 }
 if(~ `{wc -w /mnt/wsys/$id/rdsel} 0) {
 echo 'no command selected' [1=2]
 exit missing
 }
 exec rc /mnt/wsys/$id/rdsel

Re: [9fans] acme: send dot to the stdin of a more complicated command

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 28 August 2013 14:13, dexen deVries dexen.devr...@gmail.com wrote:
 your selection lacks the final LF to make Rc happy ;-)

 a quick and dirty hack would be to always append LF:
 exec /usr/local/plan9/bin/rc {9p read acme/$id/rdsel;echo;}

 tested with:
 echo foo bar
 rc {9p read acme/$winid/rdsel; echo; }

thanks, this helped, now it works :)
Ruda


P.S.: correction: in my previous e-mail where I write
awk '{print $2}'
I actually meant just
awk '{print $2}'
(ie. without the initial )

Re: [9fans] anchors broken in the g command in sam on p9p?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 21 August 2013 19:19, smi...@icebubble.org wrote:

 Rob Pike robp...@gmail.com writes:

 OK.  How does one match the start/end of dot in a g// or v// regexp?


... seems like a good question to me
Steve Simon in his Sam command reference card also uses ^ and $
for his TODAY example, so this might actually be wrong.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] anchors broken in the g command in sam on p9p?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 21 August 2013 07:11, smi...@icebubble.org wrote:

 Maybe someone here can help me make sense of this simple sam session:

 ,c
 this is a file, one of
 many files with singular
 and/or plurals
 .
 ,y/ / g/.+s$/ p
 plurals

 I would expect that to have responded with thisfilesplurals.

,y/ / g/.+s/ p

does it

 According to the docs, g/.+s$/ should check that dot ends with s.

 ,y/ / g/^[ao].*/ p
 singular
 and/or


 I would have thought that would return aoneof.

similarly, I believe
,y/ / g/[ao].*/ p
would do it

I think the pattern in g must match the dot entirely...

(sure, I might be wrong, I haven't tested it thoroughly.)

PS.: I believe there are some dark places in the sam language that can
lead to unexpected behaviour. Particularly the line endings are a
pain.

Re: [9fans] Ligatures in Plan 9 troff

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 18 July 2013 16:18, benjamin.purcell benjamin.purc...@zoho.com wrote:
 when I attempt to convert the troff output with dpost. Does anyone know
how to get ligatures using Plan 9 troff?

I also have been unable to typeset ligatures.
I think I once asked the same question here, with no answer.
So, perhaps, if you are in a hurry, use heirloom troff instead, or you may
try and ask Ali Gholami Rudi aligr...@gmail.com, who recently
wrote to me:

# I had not yet publicly announced it and I am just fighting with the
# temptation to start a new pic clone but in any case, neatroff, i.e. my
# new troff implementation, is now usable (http://litcave.rudi.ir/).
# There are some features (the ones that I rarely use myself) missing.
# It comes with its own postscript postprocessor (neatpost) and it can
# use the preprocessors and the macros of the original troff (available
# in my linux port of plan9 troff).  I hope to add some of the missing
# features and document the differences between neatroff and groff or
# the original troff in future.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] Duff's rc paper: Why awk?

[Rudolf Sykora]

 plan 9 sed reads a second line before quitting (note the def in the example
 below); sed does not work.

Is there any good reason for this difference between plan9 and gnu behaviour?

Thanks!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] Step by step Acme/Mail with plan9ports in Mac OS X Setup

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 11 June 2013 18:09, Brian Vito brian.v...@gmail.com wrote:
 Has anyone prepared a step-by-step guide to setting up plan9port's
 Acme Mail in Mac OS X? Everything I can find in the archives is
 incomplete in some way and I haven't been able to figure out how to
 set things up. I am using lavabit mail (and could use either POP or
 IMAP, whichever is easier). Thanks very much.


I do not know about Mac. But following are my notes about what I should do
when installing slackware and want to use p9p's acme Mail together with my
gmail account accessed via imap.
If that can help...
(I use secstore to keep my passwords, but this should not make
a difference.)
note:
My machine has the name 'perseus'.
I guess also something like
127.0.0.1   localhost
127.0.0.1   perseus
must be in /etc/hosts.
Finally, 'rudas.dom' near the end can probably be whatever you like. I do not
know what that is really good for.

Ruda

#mailing using p9p Mail in acme
#have a 9mail script in bin with
mailfs -t imap.gmail.com
sudo /usr/sbin/stunnel3 -c -d 12345 -r smtp.gmail.com:465
#do what's in $PLAN9/mail/README
#then remove upas/vf from the pipeline in mail/lib/qmail
#(was the cause of the .suspect being attached to mails;
#according to the plan9 mailing list it is no longer used)
#add keys like
key proto=pass role=client server=perseus service=smtp user=rudolf.sykora@gmail.
com !password?
key proto=pass role=client server=imap.gmail.com service=imap user=rudolf.sykora
 !password?
#to factotum (... secstore)
#1st line in 9mail (above) should now be enough so that
#acme's 9 Mail -s could read email
#2nd line thereof should arrange things for sending an email, which
#can be tested with eg
$PLAN9/bin/upas/smtp -ai 'tcp!perseus!12345' rudolf.syk...@gmail.com
rudolf.syk...@cern.ch msg
#where msg contains
Subject: test

test
#
#Modify $PLAN9/mail/lib/rewrite
YOUR.MAIL.GATEWAY
change to
tcp!perseus!12345
#Modify $PLAN9/mail/lib/remotemail so that the last line reads
#something like this
exec upas/smtp -ai .rudas.dom $addr rudolf.syk...@gmail.com $*
#note particularly the -ai switch

Re: [9fans] problem with a here document in rc

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

so I repeat my question. While this is possible in bash:

;cat aBash
for i in 1 2 3
do
cat !
$i
!
done
;
;bash aBash
1
2
3
;

it doesn't work in rc:

;cat aRc
for(i in 1 2 3) {
cat !
}
$i
!
;
;rc aRc



;

Is this as it should be?
Can the rc example be modified --- still using a here document --- so
that it works?

Thanks
Ruda

[9fans] problem with a here document in rc

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I have a problem with writing correctly a here document in rc.
I wrote, say:

s = (1 2)
for(i in $s) {
mkdir -p $i
cp POSCAR $i
@{
cd $i
ed POSCAR EOF [2]/dev/null
}
}
2c
$i
.
w
q
EOF

and I wanted to have the 2nd line of individual POSCAR files replaced
with the immediate value of $i.
But the script doesn't do it, and I don't know if it can be modified
in a simple way so that it did.
(I could possibly use sed [ie. without a here document] but ...)

If anyone can tell me...
Thanks!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] problem with a here document in rc

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 2 May 2013 17:24, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 i usually solve this problem like this

 for(i in 1 2){
 mkdir -p $i || fatal
 cp POSCAR $i || fatal
 @{
 {
 echo 2c
 echo $i
 echo .
 echo w
 echo q
 } | ed POSCAR
 }
 }

 - erik


So you avoid a here document...
Then, is it so that a here document can't ever serve the purpose (ie.
it is limited in the way that any present variables are evaluated just
once; when then?)?

Thanks for a clarification!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] mount p9 sources in p9p

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 20 April 2013 14:48, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 can I do something like '9fs sources' but in p9p so that I could read
 p9 (not port) sources in linux?
 I'd guess it is possible, but I don't know how...

 srv -n sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources
 9p ls sources | mc

 it's actually exactly the same as plan 9; you could use
 plan 9's 9fs script for sources.

 - erik


Thank you.
I tried it and it works, however, with this, if I understand it right
I can't simply walk around in the filesystem, can I?
(or what do you mean by the '|mc'?)

Ruda

Re: [9fans] mount p9 sources in p9p

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 20 April 2013 19:11, David du Colombier 0in...@gmail.com wrote:
 Using 9pfuse:

 9pfuse sources.cs.bell-labs.com /n/sources

 Using v9fs:

 mount -t 9p 204.178.31.11 /n/sources

Both ways work for me, however, it is, for some reason, very slow.
(I wait several seconds before 'ls' shows its output...)
Is it slow only for me?

Thanks!
Ruda

[9fans] mount p9 sources in p9p

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

can I do something like '9fs sources' but in p9p so that I could read
p9 (not port) sources in linux?
I'd guess it is possible, but I don't know how...

Thanks!
Ruda

[9fans] p9p mailfs returns warnings

[rudolf . sykora]

Hello everyone,

I have been using the acme Mail client in p9p for some time. It works
rather well for my needs. I use it with an imap access to my gmail
account. However, when I run the command

mailfs -t imap.gmail.com

which is issued before running acme itself and, afaik, provides the
real access to the gmail account, I usually (maybe always, I don't
know) get the following warnings:

% mailfs -t imap.gmail.com
warning: bad structure: (nil nil (nil nil) nil nil nil 11058)
warning: bad structure: (nil nil (nil nil) nil nil nil 4416)
warning: bad structure: (nil nil (nil nil) nil nil nil 4792)
warning: bad structure: (nil nil (nil nil) nil nil nil 5399)
warning: bad structure: (nil nil (nil nil) nil nil nil 5988)
warning: bad structure: (nil nil (nil nil) nil nil nil 5374)
...

Has anybody observed the same? What does it mean?
I think I haven't observed any complications which could possibly be
related to the warnings, still I am interested what these are about.

Thank you!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] documentation suggestion

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 4 April 2013 10:49, Mark van Atten vanattenm...@gmail.com wrote:
 Would it be possible to add an option to p9p acme so that its tags
 will always remain one line, i.e., show Plan 9's acme behaviour?

I don't understand this question.
In p9p you have an option to use multiline tag,
if you press ENTER somewhere on the tag-line,
but if you don't do that, the behaviour is the same
as in p9, afaik.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] documentation suggestion

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 4 April 2013 17:46, erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote:
 On Thu Apr  4 11:25:12 EDT 2013, rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 4 April 2013 10:49, Mark van Atten vanattenm...@gmail.com wrote:
  Would it be possible to add an option to p9p acme so that its tags
  will always remain one line, i.e., show Plan 9's acme behaviour?

 I don't understand this question.
 In p9p you have an option to use multiline tag,
 if you press ENTER somewhere on the tag-line,
 but if you don't do that, the behaviour is the same
 as in p9, afaik.

 that's incorrect.  window tags will take up multiple lines
 if they wrap in the p9p version.  this is not true for the
 plan 9 version.

Well. Before posting I tried it.
And before replying now I again tried it (I use p9p acme).
And the behaviour is kind of more complicated.
I had two windows, each behaved differently (the two mentioned attempts).
One did not wrap, the other did wrap. So I am a bit surprised. :)
Anyway, you may toggle between multiline and singleline mode
with the mouse-wheel.
(Thus only what is a default for a window is now somehow missing knowledge
to me.)

Ruda

Re: [9fans] documentation suggestion

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 4 April 2013 18:05, Mark van Atten vanattenm...@gmail.com wrote:
 If I click 'New' to open a window in a column, go into its tag, and
 start typing after `Look', the tag becomes multiline and wraps my
 text when I hit the border.

Yes. The wrapping mode seems to be the default.
However:
If you, even before typing anything, position the cursor
in the tag line and use your wheel (of course only if you
have one) and try to sroll up (one 'click' is enough),
and then you start to type your text, there will be no wrap-up.
Scrolling changed the mode to a p9-like one.
(Down-scrolling then undoes it.)

If you ask to have a p9-like behaviour a default, there definitely
will be a way, but I do not have a good (simple) suggestion.


Ruda

Re: [9fans] documentation suggestion

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 1 April 2013 10:24, Peter A. Cejchan tyap...@gmail.com wrote:
 however, in native Plan9, scrolling goes too fast for multi-line tagline :-)
 [yes, I know that I should keep commands short, but, e.g., Edit requires
 newline between commands :(((]

I found the way how it is in p9p acme better (allowing multiple lines).
However, as far as I remember, some people here
(for some reason; what?) prefer to have a single tag line
with the scrolling mechanism described in this thread.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] Acme button 1 working like button 3

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello

On 19 March 2013 19:59, Patrick Higgins patrick.allen.higg...@gmail.com wrote:
 Yes, that was it. My alt key had gotten stuck.

so what must I do to circumvent the problem?
I reckon I should issue some hg command to put some files (from
65969f85ee6c revision?), presumably just src/cmd/devdraw/x11-srv.c,
into the working directory, and then recompile (mk) some subtree of
p9p. What are the relevant commands, please?

Thank you!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] Acme button 1 working like button 3

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 20 March 2013 16:32, Ruslan Khusnullin ruslan.khusnul...@gmail.com wrote:
 For now you can make a clean clone of specific revision previous to the 
 change:
 cd /usr/local
 rm -rf plan9
 hg clone -r e9cdfa957952 https://bitbucket.org/rsc/plan9port plan9

 Or if you want just to checkout the revision in existing tree:
 cd /usr/local/plan9
 hg checkout -r e9cdfa957952


thanks. This worked.
I thought something like hg revert -r rev file, followed by some
restricted rebuild
could be sufficient, but this is probably easier.

Thanks!
Ruda

[9fans] new mail in acme Mail, only the last highlighted

[rudolf . sykora]

Hello 9fans,

I've been using Mail program for acme to read my Google mail via
imaps.
When a new e-mail arrives, Mail highlighs the row (it is selected).
However, at least for me, only the last e-mail is highlighted, even
when more than one e-mail have come.
Is it only my problem? Has anyone changed the behaviour so that all
unread e-mails stay highlighted?

Thanks for coments!
Ruda

[9fans] p9p ssh-agent for password auth?

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello everyone,

can plan9port ssh-agent be used to mediate connection to a ssh server
and use a password, or one can only use it in connection with RSA and
DSA keys?
I tried to add a line like this

key proto=pass role=client server=kfes-69.karlov.mff.cuni.cz
service=ssh user=sykora !password=blablabla

to my factotum, but then
9 ssh-agent -l
doesn't show any useable keys...

Thank you for an answer!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] p9p ssh-agent for password auth?

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 8 March 2013 16:00, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello everyone,

 can plan9port ssh-agent be used to mediate connection to a ssh server
 and use a password, or one can only use it in connection with RSA and
 DSA keys?

I now see that 9 ssh-agent is really only to deal with passphrases of
the dsa/rsa keys.
It would probably be necessary to change the ssh program itself to
contact factotum,
if one wanted that the factotum supply the password in the clear.

If my conclusions are wrong, please, let me know.
Thanks
Ruda

Re: [9fans] ctags or sth else with acme?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 17 January 2013 22:01, Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net wrote:
 I ported Exuberant Ctags and added an output format suitable for acme. I'm 
 not at a real computer just now, but I announced it on the list. I believe 
 it's in my contrib directory, /n/sources/contrib/anothy.

would it be difficult to use this on p9p?
thanks!
Ruda

[9fans] using acid

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

is there any document, besides the two papers by P. Winterbottom
(Acid Manual, Acid: A Debugger Built From a Language)
showing a practical use of acid?

I wonder if I could use it for watching acme during its running.

[I wanted to change acme so that it could understand environment
variables --- such as $home --- when doing completion after pressing
ctrl-f or ins. However, when I tried to read the source, I found structures
with elements whose meaning is not documented.
Thus I'd like to run acme and watch and guess what they are for.
But to this end I'd like to see some examples of how to use acid.
I have never done anything like this before; I even don't know if it's viable.]

Thanks for any comments.
Ruda

[9fans] ctags or sth else with acme?

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

I'd like to know what you use for orientation in a code when running acme.
Is the 'g' command sufficient for you, or you use some form of ctags?

Thank you!
Ruda

Re: [9fans] How to do this with [acme | sam | sed ] ?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 11 January 2013 12:19, Peter A. Cejchan tyap...@gmail.com wrote:
 # remove outermost pair of braces:  abcd(x+(y-z))efgh  -- abcdx+(y-z)efgh

This, I believe, can't be achieved only with regexps. I'd write a
small external program and use it as a filter.

 # prefix to postfix operator: ++i -- i++
  [ Edit s/\+\+[a-zA-Z]+[0-9a-zA-Z]*/++/ Edit s/\+\+/d]

using the \1 (used to be undocumented on plan9) may be sometimes easier
Edit s/\+\+([A-Za-z]+[A-Za-z0-9])*/\1++/

Ruda

Re: [9fans] How to do this with [acme | sam | sed ] ?

[Rudolf Sykora]

On 11 January 2013 15:24, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 # remove outermost pair of braces:  abcd(x+(y-z))efgh  -- abcdx+(y-z)efgh
  [ no idea :-( ]

 this is made simple since * is greedy:

 Edit s:\((.*)\):\1:g


Sure, this (the greediness) basically already stands behind the solution
of N. Bercher above (though it was unnecessarily complicated). The problem with
such solutions is that you must always ensure there is just one
'expression' that
you want to be edited in the dot. Being so, the 'clicking' solution
proposed by B. Fabian
might be easier (but it depends). General solution (which would handle multiple
expressions at once), I think, is beyond simple regexps.

Ruda

Re: [9fans] p9p: .suspect added to mail attachments

[Rudolf Sykora]

Hello,

On 8 January 2013 16:27, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
 vf is no longer useful.  on plan 9 /mail/lib/qmail calls it.
 i bet there's similar in p9p and it could be replaced with
 cat.

 - erik


I tried to locate the place where 'vf' is called (on p9p) with the commands:

cd $PLAN9/src
9 du -a . |awk '{print $2}' | xargs -I foo grep vf foo /dev/null |
grep -v Binary

but it seems it didn't hit anything useful...
what is it that I am assuming that is wrong?

Thanks!
Ruda