Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:23:44PM +, sirjofri wrote: > As far as I know there is a mirror or remake of the original contrib at > 9p.io, but I'm not sure. > > Since you were away for 15 years you might want to check out other Plan 9 > forks. The most active one is probably 9front[1], which contains lots of new > software as well as hardware support. It also has its own infrastructure > (source repo, contrib). Thank you for the kind welcome and the helpful pointers, which I will check out. I have also been lurking around this list for a short while, to get somewhat up to speed. David also kindly responded regarding the original contrib in a separate subthread. Pouya -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5b1530f46b5c653d-M1bd294f0890e4faae4ff95ea Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:23:44PM +, sirjofri wrote: > As far as I know there is a mirror or remake of the original contrib at > 9p.io, but I'm not sure. > > Since you were away for 15 years you might want to check out other Plan 9 > forks. The most active one is probably 9front[1], which contains lots of new > software as well as hardware support. It also has its own infrastructure > (source repo, contrib). Thank you for the kind welcome and the helpful pointers, which I will check out. I have also been lurking around this list for a short while, to get somewhat up to speed. David du Colombier also kindly responded regarding the original contrib mirror in a separate subthread. Pouya -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5b1530f46b5c653d-M199ddd06ef6cea9b27facce7 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
> I'm coming back to Plan 9 after something of a 15 year break. It looks > like 9p.io has replaced plan9.bell-labs.com. Is it still possible to > have a contrib directory (and should I have one / do I deserve one)? > The old instructions were to request one by e-mailing a--presumably--now > defunct address at the Bell Labs (which I, being too much of an amateur > and with nothing to contribute, didn't do back then). I am the maintainer of 9p.io. You can contact me with your desired username so I can can create you a contrib directory. -- David du Colombier -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5b1530f46b5c653d-M2832f1e0bcba41420a919f1a Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] sources/contrib
Hello and welcome back, 26.01.2021 23:01:35 Pouya Tafti : I'm coming back to Plan 9 after something of a 15 year break. Wow, that's a very long time. Indeed, welcome back. I hope you feel well in the new community. I'm sure it changes quite a bit. It looks like 9p.io has replaced plan9.bell-labs.com. Is it still possible to have a contrib directory (and should I have one / do I deserve one)? As far as I know there is a mirror or remake of the original contrib at 9p.io, but I'm not sure. Since you were away for 15 years you might want to check out other Plan 9 forks. The most active one is probably 9front[1], which contains lots of new software as well as hardware support. It also has its own infrastructure (source repo, contrib). I know there's (or was?) 9atom, but I don't know the details. Also there's lots of new software for 9 in general made by other developers outside the contribs. It's worth mentioning that many new software is in git repos since we now have a native git software[2]. Lots of older software is archived on github[3]. There's also a 9fans discord server that's bridged to ##9fans on freenode, if you want some more synchronous communication. Don't hesitate to ask questions. Welcome back sirjofri [1] http://9front.org [2] https://github.com/oridb/git9 [3] https://github.com/Plan9-Archive -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5b1530f46b5c653d-Md2a9b34fd0f7c2a1b8c9c884 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
[9fans] sources/contrib
I'm coming back to Plan 9 after something of a 15 year break. It looks like 9p.io has replaced plan9.bell-labs.com. Is it still possible to have a contrib directory (and should I have one / do I deserve one)? The old instructions were to request one by e-mailing a--presumably--now defunct address at the Bell Labs (which I, being too much of an amateur and with nothing to contribute, didn't do back then). Many thanks, Pouya -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T5b1530f46b5c653d-Mcae6e91560356e2fa2b3672c Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] sources down
i think what annoys people is things (experiments, code, entire operating systems) that are intended to be kept private neverthess stil get mentioned. the happiest scenario is the one we just witnessed: after an exchange of several more messages on the list, the bits got published. thanks, david. sl
Re: [9fans] sources down
no i agree lucio, i failed in believing what you described would be obvious to everybody involved. the script itself is rather simple. but the outcome is more important: thanks to david for making sure everybody can find the plan9 history on google/github without having to get too deeply involved.
Re: [9fans] sources down
There's the other side of the coin, too, just so everyone can tell I'm cursed with seeing more than one side of situations like this: no one can learn much from "private exchanges". So David's freedom not to publish a one-off ought to be weighed against the benefit that someone may be able to build on the knowledge he or she may have picked up from it. But I'm making a mountain out of a molehill and I apologise for that. At the same time, I would like to thank David: his contributions are going mostly unrewarded, the occasional show of gratitude is probably a good thing. Lucio. :-) On 12/31/18, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 12/31/18, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: >> This “send it to you privately” ethos is a problem on this list. Why not >> make it public? > > I generally agree, but in this case he was forced to spend more work > (cleaning up, and documenting it). > From my experience with scripts of the same length the work to write > it is probably less than the work to clean it up and document it. And > the task has to be done only once anyway, so not worth it (Unless we > get the annotations). > > -- Lucio De Re 2 Piet Retief St Kestell (Eastern Free State) 9860 South Africa Ph.: +27 58 653 1433 Cell: +27 83 251 5824 FAX: +27 58 653 1435
Re: [9fans] sources down
On 12/31/18, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > This “send it to you privately” ethos is a problem on this list. Why not > make it public? I generally agree, but in this case he was forced to spend more work (cleaning up, and documenting it). >From my experience with scripts of the same length the work to write it is probably less than the work to clean it up and document it. And the task has to be done only once anyway, so not worth it (Unless we get the annotations).
Re: [9fans] sources down
"David du Colombier" <0in...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Let me restate the question. When one has only the "new" file and > > the ed script that created it from the "old" one, and said script > > says "delete lines N through M", how does one recover the lines > > that were deleted? (With context or unified diffs, the deleted text > > is there.) > > I don't think you can "reverse" the ed scripts produced with "diff -e", > unlike unified diff files. > > However, in 9hist, the files are always reconstructed forward, > starting from the complete original file. OK, then it makes sense then. Much thanks! Arnold
Re: [9fans] sources down
> Let me restate the question. When one has only the "new" file and > the ed script that created it from the "old" one, and said script > says "delete lines N through M", how does one recover the lines > that were deleted? (With context or unified diffs, the deleted text > is there.) I don't think you can "reverse" the ed scripts produced with "diff -e", unlike unified diff files. However, in 9hist, the files are always reconstructed forward, starting from the complete original file. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] sources down
Well, here is it: http://www.9legacy.org/9legacy/tools/9hist-to-git.sh The notes are inside the script. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] sources down
hi, one “send it privately” event does not an ethos make. i am speaking for Davide here, but i do not think he feels the it was worth publishing widely, being a throw away script. i am going to spend some time and try and beautify it, if i succeed i will post my version. if in the meantime, you are desperate for a copy you could contact him directly and he may well send you a copy. none of us are required to publish everything we write. -Steve > On 31 Dec 2018, at 8:21 am, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > > This “send it to you privately” ethos is a problem on this list. Why not make > it public? > > —dho > >> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 2:55 PM David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com> wrote: >> > do you have a script that you used to generate the 9hist repository? >> > I always planned to ingest it into my venti. >> > >> > I have already put a few old floppy and cdrom from my past in >> > venti as limited //mmdd/usr/steve/... so the 9hist could go in >> > as //mmdd/sys/src/9/... >> >> Yes, but beware it's a throw-away script. I'll send it to you privately. >> >> -- >> David du Colombier >>
Re: [9fans] sources down
> On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 11:58:20PM -0700, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: > > > > How does that work if lines were deleted? Kurt H Maier wrote: > [ example session, deleted ] Let me restate the question. When one has only the "new" file and the ed script that created it from the "old" one, and said script says "delete lines N through M", how does one recover the lines that were deleted? (With context or unified diffs, the deleted text is there.) Thanks, Arnold
Re: [9fans] sources down
I guess it's a choice we need to be free to make. Sometimes the effort involved in making something sufficiently polished for publication is too much, when one is too self-conscious to dump a dog's breakfast for the Internet to vomit over forever (no reflection over David's coding). There isn't a good place to draw that line, Devon, let's just encourage posting, maybe offer to help tidying up. If that doesn't work, then one must just accept the choice made by the originator. Lucio. PS: To push the point a bit: forty odd years ago the anecdote I heard involved an APL one-liner that erased itself on completion. I think that is "justified". On 12/31/18, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: > This “send it to you privately” ethos is a problem on this list. Why not > make it public? > > —dho > > On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 2:55 PM David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > do you have a script that you used to generate the 9hist repository? >> > I always planned to ingest it into my venti. >> > >> > I have already put a few old floppy and cdrom from my past in >> > venti as limited //mmdd/usr/steve/... so the 9hist could go in >> > as //mmdd/sys/src/9/... >> >> Yes, but beware it's a throw-away script. I'll send it to you privately. >> >> -- >> David du Colombier >> >> > -- Lucio De Re 2 Piet Retief St Kestell (Eastern Free State) 9860 South Africa Ph.: +27 58 653 1433 Cell: +27 83 251 5824 FAX: +27 58 653 1435
Re: [9fans] sources down
This “send it to you privately” ethos is a problem on this list. Why not make it public? —dho On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 2:55 PM David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com> wrote: > > do you have a script that you used to generate the 9hist repository? > > I always planned to ingest it into my venti. > > > > I have already put a few old floppy and cdrom from my past in > > venti as limited //mmdd/usr/steve/... so the 9hist could go in > > as //mmdd/sys/src/9/... > > Yes, but beware it's a throw-away script. I'll send it to you privately. > > -- > David du Colombier > >
Re: [9fans] sources down
On Sun, Dec 30, 2018 at 11:58:20PM -0700, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: > > How does that work if lines were deleted? > > Thanks, > > Arnold > $ cat one two a b c d e f g h i a b c g h i j k l $ diff -e one two 3a j k l . 2d khm
Re: [9fans] sources down
"David du Colombier" <0in...@gmail.com> wrote: > > i have wondered if it would be possible to apply the historic plan9 > > kernel diffs and regenerate these ancient kernels. > > The diff files are ed scripts generated with "diff -e", so it should be > possible to regenerate the original files with a bit of scripting. > > -- > David du Colombier How does that work if lines were deleted? Thanks, Arnold
Re: [9fans] sources down
> do you have a script that you used to generate the 9hist repository? > I always planned to ingest it into my venti. > > I have already put a few old floppy and cdrom from my past in > venti as limited //mmdd/usr/steve/... so the 9hist could go in > as //mmdd/sys/src/9/... Yes, but beware it's a throw-away script. I'll send it to you privately. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] sources down
do you have a script that you used to generate the 9hist repository? I always planned to ingest it into my venti. I have already put a few old floppy and cdrom from my past in venti as limited //mmdd/usr/steve/... so the 9hist could go in as //mmdd/sys/src/9/... Thanks, -Steve
Re: [9fans] sources down
I've just converted the 9hist diff files to a Git repository: https://github.com/0intro/9hist -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] sources down
Does somebody know if Russ still reads this list? I would be very interested if he still has the annotations...
Re: [9fans] sources down
> i have wondered if it would be possible to apply the historic plan9 > kernel diffs and regenerate these ancient kernels. The diff files are ed scripts generated with "diff -e", so it should be possible to regenerate the original files with a bit of scripting. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] sources down
i have wondered if it would be possible to apply the historic plan9 kernel diffs and regenerate these ancient kernels. no real use but it would be interesting to see the code in its context. > On 29 Dec 2018, at 10:05 am, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > after checking the git mirror, it turns out the change i'm interested > in must have happened before it's beginning at 2002. > >> On 12/28/18, Steve Simon wrote: >> i have a copy if the diffs russ’s web pages used, though i dont think the >> annotations are included. it lived on russ’s server i think, not the labs >> one. > > i heard from Fish also that this is available, but I'm still waiting > in case somebody might still pop up with the annotations...
Re: [9fans] sources down
after checking the git mirror, it turns out the change i'm interested in must have happened before it's beginning at 2002. On 12/28/18, Steve Simon wrote: > i have a copy if the diffs russ’s web pages used, though i dont think the > annotations are included. it lived on russ’s server i think, not the labs > one. i heard from Fish also that this is available, but I'm still waiting in case somebody might still pop up with the annotations...
Re: [9fans] sources down
> In all seriousness, it's not too difficult to integrate in. I used Russ' > letsencrypt package before this one. Both have been straight forward. > There are samples too. yeah, but with dp9ik around nowadays why not just use 9p access for the really inclined. somebody who doesn't even run plan9 might not need the extra security certificate vouched for by the president (of some unstable country of your chosing). please don't concentrate on the web interface's web security so much, i just want the data some way or another - primarily without web involvement.
Re: [9fans] sources down
hitler jokes work to relativize anything. but eekee's point was valid. On 12/28/18, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > It's all relative. For example, compared to the current President of the > United States, this API is extremely stable :) > > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 11:58 AM Ethan Gardener >> On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, at 7:43 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >> > while I'm thinking about it, is it possible for 9legacy.org to use >> letsencrypt? Go's acme/autocert package ( >> golang.org/x/crypto/acme/autocert) works great. >> >> "This package is a work in progress and makes no API stability promises." >> >> >
Re: [9fans] sources down
On 12/29/18, Ethan Gardener wrote: > On Sat, Dec 29, 2018, at 3:58 AM, Lucio De Re wrote: >> Personally, I think HTTPS is overrated, or has just made itself >> overrated. > > I've heard from multiple sources that this kind of single-ended > authorization isn't worth much, but I'm not so sure. My current ISP > re-encrypts all data from imgur with their own certificate, which means I > know the connection is being interfered with. > I like to think that I'm as sharp a security specialist as I'm likely to encounter, despite living in a bit of a backwater. My ISP (one of, thankfully) managed to arrange a certified X.509 certificate for a domain I have absolute control over. Since then, the web site has had its ups and down, last of which (I really can't raise enough anger to take them on) they won't let me install the certificate myself: it needs root privileges and they won't grant them to a user. Thing is, the web site has no need whatever for user security, we hold no private information, Lucio. PS: That was a bit O.T. But I bet I could run the site on a Plan 9 server...
Re: [9fans] sources down
On Sat, Dec 29, 2018, at 3:58 AM, Lucio De Re wrote: > Personally, I think HTTPS is overrated, or has just made itself overrated. I've heard from multiple sources that this kind of single-ended authorization isn't worth much, but I'm not so sure. My current ISP re-encrypts all data from imgur with their own certificate, which means I know the connection is being interfered with.
Re: [9fans] sources down
Oh, when you put it that way, I can't disagree! :D On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, at 9:15 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > It's all relative. For example, compared to the current President of > the United States, this API is extremely stable :)> > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 11:58 AM Ethan Gardener > > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, at 7:43 PM, Skip > Tavakkolian wrote: >> > while I'm thinking about it, is it possible for 9legacy.org to use >> > letsencrypt? Go's acme/autocert package >> > (golang.org/x/crypto/acme/autocert) works great.>> >> "This package is a work in progress and makes no API stability >> promises.">> -- The lines in the sand aren't where I thought they were.
Re: [9fans] sources down
On 12/29/18, David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com> wrote: > Actually, what I need would be an HTTP server supporting > SNI so I could serve the appropriate certificate according to > the requested hostname. > As far as I can tell (coffee still working it's way to my brain) Go's HTTPS server does that just fine. Surely all you need is the file server? > The machine hosting 9legacy.org is also hosting other websites > and currently only presents a valid X.509 certificate for 9grid.fr. > And, like me, you don't like using multi-domain certificates? I think the answer is a simple one, but off the cuff, I don't have one. Personally, I think HTTPS is overrated, or has just made itself overrated. Lucio.
Re: [9fans] sources down
> while I'm thinking about it, is it possible for 9legacy.org to use > letsencrypt? Go's acme/autocert package > (golang.org/x/crypto/acme/autocert) works great. Actually, what I need would be an HTTP server supporting SNI so I could serve the appropriate certificate according to the requested hostname. The machine hosting 9legacy.org is also hosting other websites and currently only presents a valid X.509 certificate for 9grid.fr. -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] sources down
> the reason i ask is because i was trying to go through the sources > dump. sadly that isn't available at all now. The history of /n/sources/plan9 is available as a Git repository here: https://github.com/0intro/plan9 However, this doesn't include the history of the rest of /n/sources. I have a full copy of /n/sourcesdump and I'd like to make it available on 9p.io, but I didn't have time to do it so far. > also, russ used to have this very nice browseable kernel history. that > is also gone :( The Plan 9 kernel history is available here: https://9p.io/sources/extra/9hist/ This includes the code, but unfortunately not the web service nor the comments, which were stored on Russ' side (on swtch.com). -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] sources down
i have a copy if the diffs russ’s web pages used, though i dont think the annotations are included. it lived on russ’s server i think, not the labs one. maybe its on the internet archive? -Steve > On 28 Dec 2018, at 9:23 pm, Skip Tavakkolian > wrote: > > In all seriousness, it's not too difficult to integrate in. I used Russ' > letsencrypt package before this one. Both have been straight forward. There > are samples too. > > With Go modules and vendoring, package version can be locked in > (notwithstanding security fixes) > >> On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 1:15 PM Skip Tavakkolian > wrote: >> It's all relative. For example, compared to the current President of the >> United States, this API is extremely stable :) >> >>> On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 11:58 AM Ethan Gardener >> On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, at 7:43 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >>> > while I'm thinking about it, is it possible for 9legacy.org to use >>> > letsencrypt? Go's acme/autocert package >>> > (golang.org/x/crypto/acme/autocert) works great. >>> >>> "This package is a work in progress and makes no API stability promises." >>>
Re: [9fans] sources down
In all seriousness, it's not too difficult to integrate in. I used Russ' letsencrypt package before this one. Both have been straight forward. There are samples too. With Go modules and vendoring, package version can be locked in (notwithstanding security fixes) On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 1:15 PM Skip Tavakkolian It's all relative. For example, compared to the current President of the > United States, this API is extremely stable :) > > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 11:58 AM Ethan Gardener >> On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, at 7:43 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: >> > while I'm thinking about it, is it possible for 9legacy.org to use >> letsencrypt? Go's acme/autocert package ( >> golang.org/x/crypto/acme/autocert) works great. >> >> "This package is a work in progress and makes no API stability promises." >> >>
Re: [9fans] sources down
It's all relative. For example, compared to the current President of the United States, this API is extremely stable :) On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, 11:58 AM Ethan Gardener On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, at 7:43 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > > while I'm thinking about it, is it possible for 9legacy.org to use > letsencrypt? Go's acme/autocert package ( > golang.org/x/crypto/acme/autocert) works great. > > "This package is a work in progress and makes no API stability promises." > >
Re: [9fans] sources down
the reason i ask is because i was trying to go through the sources dump. sadly that isn't available at all now. also, russ used to have this very nice browseable kernel history. that is also gone :(
Re: [9fans] sources down
On Fri, Dec 28, 2018, at 7:43 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > while I'm thinking about it, is it possible for 9legacy.org to use > letsencrypt? Go's acme/autocert package (golang.org/x/crypto/acme/autocert) > works great. "This package is a work in progress and makes no API stability promises."
Re: [9fans] sources down
I've not had any success for a while with bell-labs sources. I've been using 9p.io. https://9legacy.org is also a great resource. while I'm thinking about it, is it possible for 9legacy.org to use letsencrypt? Go's acme/autocert package (golang.org/x/crypto/acme/autocert) works great. On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 11:30 AM Steve Simon wrote: > i havent seen sources working for 6 months at least. there are mirrors > however: > > e.g. at http://plan9.io > > -Steve > > > > On 28 Dec 2018, at 7:07 pm, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > could somebody press the button at bell-labs? > > thank you. > > >
Re: [9fans] sources down
i havent seen sources working for 6 months at least. there are mirrors however: e.g. at http://plan9.io -Steve > On 28 Dec 2018, at 7:07 pm, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote: > > could somebody press the button at bell-labs? > thank you.
[9fans] sources down
could somebody press the button at bell-labs? thank you.
Re: [9fans] sources
9p.io is the new sources as bell labs sources is down for good iirc. Cheers, Sean On Wednesday, September 19, 2018, Steve Simon wrote: > Hi all. > > sources has not been accessible over 9p for a while. has it gone for good > or does it just need a little love? > > -Steve > > > >
[9fans] sources
Hi all. sources has not been accessible over 9p for a while. has it gone for good or does it just need a little love? -Steve
[9fans] sources down?
Hello fans. currently, is sources.cs.bell-labs.com down? on my plan9 box: % ndb/dnsquery sources.cs.bell-labs.com !dns: dns failure plan9.bell-labs.com plan9.bell-labs.com ip 135.104.24.16
Re: [9fans] sources down?
Hello fans. currently, is sources.cs.bell-labs.com down? on my plan9 box: % ndb/dnsquery sources.cs.bell-labs.com !dns: dns failure plan9.bell-labs.com plan9.bell-labs.com ip135.104.24.16 Sources is up again, but it was down for a few hours, I think. sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources.cs.bell-labs.com ip 135.104.24.18 Stevie
Re: [9fans] sources down?
Thanks stevie. My plan9 box resolved sources.cs.bell-labs.com too. Hello fans. currently, is sources.cs.bell-labs.com down? on my plan9 box: % ndb/dnsquery sources.cs.bell-labs.com !dns: dns failure plan9.bell-labs.com plan9.bell-labs.com ip 135.104.24.16 Sources is up again, but it was down for a few hours, I think. sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources.cs.bell-labs.com ip 135.104.24.18 Stevie
Re: [9fans] sources?
On 26 April 2015 at 19:04, Sergey Zhilkin szhil...@gmail.com wrote: Very good ! Sape is in Cisco, Geoff is in Google. Who is in charge? http://i.imgur.com/h2iNV2H.png -- - yiyus || JGL .
[9fans] sources?
hopefully this is temporary. % ls -l /n/sources/plan9/sys ls: /n/sources/plan9/sys: venti i/o error or wrong score, block 4d769e8f943e7371bef503cd595fb21c04b59608
Re: [9fans] sources?
Yes, Bell Labs servers seem to be in a very bad shape. In the meantime, a mirror is available on http://9p.io/ (http and 9p). -- David du Colombier
Re: [9fans] sources?
Very good ! Sape is in Cisco, Geoff is in Google. Who is in charge? воскресенье, 26 апреля 2015 г. пользователь David du Colombier 0in...@gmail.com написал: Yes, Bell Labs servers seem to be in a very bad shape. In the meantime, a mirror is available on http://9p.io/ (http and 9p). -- David du Colombier -- Sent from Gmail Mobile
Re: [9fans] sources?
On 26 Apr 2015, at 18:04, Sergey Zhilkin szhil...@gmail.com wrote: Very good ! Sape is in Cisco, Geoff is in Google. Who is in charge? is Jim still there? воскресенье, 26 апреля 2015 г. пользователь David du Colombier 0in...@gmail.com написал: Yes, Bell Labs servers seem to be in a very bad shape. In the meantime, a mirror is available on http://9p.io/ (http and 9p). -- David du Colombier -- Sent from Gmail Mobile
Re: [9fans] [sources] applied patch: /n/atom/patch/applied/termrcnodhcp
Hello,
erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote:
|email
| quans...@quanstro.net
|readme
| don't dhcp by default. it looks like a hang.
[.]
|+ #if(! test -e /net/ipifc/0/ctl || ~ 127.0.0.1 `{cat /net/ipifc/0/local})
|+ # ip/ipconfig /dev/null [2=1]
[.]
after looking into the ipconfig source and placing some fprint()
the actual hang is caused by a faulty length of the sleep.
If i add
--- a/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
+++ b/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
@@ -469,6 +469,12 @@ main(int argc, char **argv)
int retry, action;
Ctl *cp;
+ for (retry = 0; retry 10; ++retry) {
+ long t = time(nil);
+ fprint(2, retry %d, time %ld\n, retry, t);
+ sleep(1000);
+ }
+
init();
retry = 0;
ARGBEGIN {
then each tick sleeps ~1 second (sometimes a tick needed 3 in the
tests i've done). But if i add
--- a/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
+++ b/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
@@ -621,10 +621,13 @@ doadd(int retry)
if(dodhcp){
mkclientid();
for(tries = 0; tries 30; tries++){
+ long t;
dhcpquery(!noconfig, Sselecting);
if(conf.state == Sbound)
break;
sleep(1000);
+ t = time(nil);
+ fprint(2, retry %d, time %ld\n, tries, t);
}
}
then that sleep takes reproducably 12 seconds. Without having any
ideas what this could be about (VirtualBox?), i nonetheless wonder
wether something like this would be imaginable, since a time
difference is used later on in the code, too:
--- a/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
+++ b/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
@@ -619,12 +619,15 @@ doadd(int retry)
/* run dhcp if we need something */
if(dodhcp){
+ long start = time(nil);
mkclientid();
for(tries = 0; tries 30; tries++){
dhcpquery(!noconfig, Sselecting);
if(conf.state == Sbound)
break;
sleep(1000);
+ if (tries 1 time(nil) - start 30)
+ break;
}
}
Apologies for the patch format (it's all half-baked here).
--steffen
---BeginMessage---
email
quans...@quanstro.net
readme
don't dhcp by default. it looks like a hang.
set sysname, even if ndb not cooperative
use diskparts instead of inline code
removed
files
/rc/bin/termrc termrc
/rc/bin/termrc termrc
termrc.orig:10,18 - termrc:10,22
mntgen -s slashn chmod 666 /srv/slashn
ndb/cs -f $ndbfile
sysname=`{cat /dev/sysname}
+ if(~ $#sysname 0){
+ sysname = gnot
+ echo -n $sysname /dev/sysname
+ }
- if(! test -e /net/ipifc/0/ctl || ~ 127.0.0.1 `{cat /net/ipifc/0/local})
- ip/ipconfig /dev/null [2=1]
+ #if(! test -e /net/ipifc/0/ctl || ~ 127.0.0.1 `{cat /net/ipifc/0/local})
+ # ip/ipconfig /dev/null [2=1]
if(test -e /net/ipifc/0/ctl)
ndb/dns -rf $ndbfile
for(i in /net/ether?)
termrc.orig:30,41 - termrc:34,44
for(i in A w f t m u v L '$' Ι Σ κ æ ©)
/bin/bind -a '#'^$i /dev /dev/null [2=1]
- for(disk in /dev/sd??) {
- if(test -f $disk/data test -f $disk/ctl)
- disk/fdisk -p $disk/data $disk/ctl [2]/dev/null
- for(part in $disk/plan9*)
- if(test -f $part)
- disk/prep -p $part $disk/ctl [2]/dev/null
+ diskparts
+ sysname=`{cat /dev/sysname}
+ if (~ $#sysname 0 || ~ $sysname '') {
+ sysname = gnot
+ echo -n $sysname /dev/sysname
}
# hacks
--
merge...backup...copy...
cpfile termrc /n/dist/rc/bin/termrc
# remove these files if you want. I will not remove them for you
# (apatch/undo will not restore them)
done
---End Message---
Re: [9fans] [sources] applied patch: /n/atom/patch/applied/termrcnodhcp
then each tick sleeps ~1 second (sometimes a tick needed 3 in the tests i've done). But if i add hmm. can you explain more about the environment, and kernel you were using? i'd like to correct the kernel timing. sleep(n) must be fairly accurate. i would define that as accurate to ±1/HZ on an otherwise unloaded system. - erik
Re: [9fans] [sources] applied patch: /n/atom/patch/applied/termrcnodhcp
hmm, i'm braindead.
And that made it especially hard to deal with ipconfig(8):
by default, ipconfig exits after trying DHCP for 15 seconds
with no answer
--steffen
---BeginMessage---
Hello,
erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote:
|email
| quans...@quanstro.net
|readme
| don't dhcp by default. it looks like a hang.
[.]
|+ #if(! test -e /net/ipifc/0/ctl || ~ 127.0.0.1 `{cat /net/ipifc/0/local})
|+ # ip/ipconfig /dev/null [2=1]
[.]
after looking into the ipconfig source and placing some fprint()
the actual hang is caused by a faulty length of the sleep.
If i add
--- a/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
+++ b/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
@@ -469,6 +469,12 @@ main(int argc, char **argv)
int retry, action;
Ctl *cp;
+ for (retry = 0; retry 10; ++retry) {
+ long t = time(nil);
+ fprint(2, retry %d, time %ld\n, retry, t);
+ sleep(1000);
+ }
+
init();
retry = 0;
ARGBEGIN {
then each tick sleeps ~1 second (sometimes a tick needed 3 in the
tests i've done). But if i add
--- a/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
+++ b/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
@@ -621,10 +621,13 @@ doadd(int retry)
if(dodhcp){
mkclientid();
for(tries = 0; tries 30; tries++){
+ long t;
dhcpquery(!noconfig, Sselecting);
if(conf.state == Sbound)
break;
sleep(1000);
+ t = time(nil);
+ fprint(2, retry %d, time %ld\n, tries, t);
}
}
then that sleep takes reproducably 12 seconds. Without having any
ideas what this could be about (VirtualBox?), i nonetheless wonder
wether something like this would be imaginable, since a time
difference is used later on in the code, too:
--- a/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
+++ b/sys/src/cmd/ip/ipconfig/main.c
@@ -619,12 +619,15 @@ doadd(int retry)
/* run dhcp if we need something */
if(dodhcp){
+ long start = time(nil);
mkclientid();
for(tries = 0; tries 30; tries++){
dhcpquery(!noconfig, Sselecting);
if(conf.state == Sbound)
break;
sleep(1000);
+ if (tries 1 time(nil) - start 30)
+ break;
}
}
Apologies for the patch format (it's all half-baked here).
--steffen
---BeginMessage---
email
quans...@quanstro.net
readme
don't dhcp by default. it looks like a hang.
set sysname, even if ndb not cooperative
use diskparts instead of inline code
removed
files
/rc/bin/termrc termrc
/rc/bin/termrc termrc
termrc.orig:10,18 - termrc:10,22
mntgen -s slashn chmod 666 /srv/slashn
ndb/cs -f $ndbfile
sysname=`{cat /dev/sysname}
+ if(~ $#sysname 0){
+ sysname = gnot
+ echo -n $sysname /dev/sysname
+ }
- if(! test -e /net/ipifc/0/ctl || ~ 127.0.0.1 `{cat /net/ipifc/0/local})
- ip/ipconfig /dev/null [2=1]
+ #if(! test -e /net/ipifc/0/ctl || ~ 127.0.0.1 `{cat /net/ipifc/0/local})
+ # ip/ipconfig /dev/null [2=1]
if(test -e /net/ipifc/0/ctl)
ndb/dns -rf $ndbfile
for(i in /net/ether?)
termrc.orig:30,41 - termrc:34,44
for(i in A w f t m u v L '$' Ι Σ κ æ ©)
/bin/bind -a '#'^$i /dev /dev/null [2=1]
- for(disk in /dev/sd??) {
- if(test -f $disk/data test -f $disk/ctl)
- disk/fdisk -p $disk/data $disk/ctl [2]/dev/null
- for(part in $disk/plan9*)
- if(test -f $part)
- disk/prep -p $part $disk/ctl [2]/dev/null
+ diskparts
+ sysname=`{cat /dev/sysname}
+ if (~ $#sysname 0 || ~ $sysname '') {
+ sysname = gnot
+ echo -n $sysname /dev/sysname
}
# hacks
--
merge...backup...copy...
cpfile termrc /n/dist/rc/bin/termrc
# remove these files if you want. I will not remove them for you
# (apatch/undo will not restore them)
done
---End Message---
---End Message---
Re: [9fans] [sources] applied patch: /n/atom/patch/applied/termrcnodhcp
erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote: |- 9fans | |thanks for the interest! no, i'm just totally brain dead.
Re: [9fans] [sources] applied patch: /n/atom/patch/applied/termrcnodhcp
On Tue Oct 15 09:20:16 EDT 2013, sdao...@gmail.com wrote: erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.com wrote: |- 9fans | |thanks for the interest! no, i'm just totally brain dead. i didn't think so. seems like sleep should be fixed. but i need more information on your environment to fix it. if you're running 9atom, could you send me the output of - aux/cpuid -iv - pci - cat '#P/cputype' - erik
[9fans] sources, others, offline
Sources and the plan9 website are unreachable at the moment. It appears that 204.178.31.x hosts are unreachable, and since both ns1 and ns2.cs.bell-labs.com are on that network, neither plan9.bell-labs.com or *.cs.bell-labs.com are resolving.
[9fans] sources flproto example still accurate
Hi all Is this example from man fossilcons still accurate? srv –p fscons.sources srv –p fscons.sources.adduserd srv sources fsys main config /dev/sdC0/fossil.outside fsys main open –c 25600 fsys main users /active/adm/users listen tcp!*!564 msg –m 40 –p 10 snaptime –a –s 15 I am trying to figure out why I can mount sources, but not my local cpu/auth/fileserver into my mac os x computer. regards fernan -- http://www.fernski.com
Re: [9fans] sources flproto example still accurate
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: snaptime –a –s 15 I would not reccomend -s 15 for now, there appears to be a bug in fossil where it can deadlock itself somtimes - My home server used to lock up once every few weeks, after disabling snapshots it has been fine. I do still do nightly dumps to venti however, that part of the system is absolutely fine. -Steve Thanks, However it seems my problem is not my flproto if I try to mount the plan9 system without using srv -a I will get $ 9 mount thinktank /tmp/c top level name fuse in fuse.version is invalid top level name macfuse in macfuse.version.number is invalid 9pfuse: fsmount: cannot attach as none before authentication if I try to use srv -a I get $ srv -a thinktank !adding key: role=client proto=p9sk1 dom=fernan.net user[fernan]: fernan and it stays there forever. without asking me for my password. Any ideas what I did wrong -- http://www.fernski.com
Re: [9fans] sources flproto example still accurate
is auth negotiation supported in p9p? On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: snaptime –a –s 15 I would not reccomend -s 15 for now, there appears to be a bug in fossil where it can deadlock itself somtimes - My home server used to lock up once every few weeks, after disabling snapshots it has been fine. I do still do nightly dumps to venti however, that part of the system is absolutely fine. -Steve Thanks, However it seems my problem is not my flproto if I try to mount the plan9 system without using srv -a I will get $ 9 mount thinktank /tmp/c top level name fuse in fuse.version is invalid top level name macfuse in macfuse.version.number is invalid 9pfuse: fsmount: cannot attach as none before authentication if I try to use srv -a I get $ srv -a thinktank !adding key: role=client proto=p9sk1 dom=fernan.net user[fernan]: fernan and it stays there forever. without asking me for my password. Any ideas what I did wrong -- http://www.fernski.com
Re: [9fans] sources flproto example still accurate
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 8:11 PM, Skip Tavakkolian 9...@9netics.com wrote: is auth negotiation supported in p9p? On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: snaptime –a –s 15 I would not reccomend -s 15 for now, there appears to be a bug in fossil where it can deadlock itself somtimes - My home server used to lock up once every few weeks, after disabling snapshots it has been fine. I do still do nightly dumps to venti however, that part of the system is absolutely fine. -Steve Thanks, However it seems my problem is not my flproto if I try to mount the plan9 system without using srv -a I will get $ 9 mount thinktank /tmp/c top level name fuse in fuse.version is invalid top level name macfuse in macfuse.version.number is invalid 9pfuse: fsmount: cannot attach as none before authentication if I try to use srv -a I get $ srv -a thinktank !adding key: role=client proto=p9sk1 dom=fernan.net user[fernan]: fernan and it stays there forever. without asking me for my password. Any ideas what I did wrong I dont know, but what is wrong with my configuration if I can mount sources like unauthenticated... mac0:~ fernan$ srv sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources mac0:~ fernan$ mkdir ./tmp/c mac0:~ fernan$ 9 mount `namespace`/sources ./tmp/c top level name fuse in fuse.version is invalid mac0:~ fernan$ lc ./tmp/c 9grid adm contrib distextra lsr patch plan9 wikixen mac0:~ fernan$ but not my cpu server??? fernan -- http://www.fernski.com
Re: [9fans] sources flproto example still accurate
I dont know, but what is wrong with my configuration if I can mount sources like unauthenticated... mac0:~ fernan$ srv sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources mac0:~ fernan$ mkdir ./tmp/c mac0:~ fernan$ 9 mount `namespace`/sources ./tmp/c top level name fuse in fuse.version is invalid mac0:~ fernan$ lc ./tmp/c 9grid adm contrib distextra lsr patch plan9 wikixen mac0:~ fernan$ but not my cpu server??? i'm confused. your previous post had srv -a. i thought unauthenticated was srv -A. you may also need -N. - erik
Re: [9fans] sources flproto example still accurate
On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:00 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: I dont know, but what is wrong with my configuration if I can mount sources like unauthenticated... mac0:~ fernan$ srv sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources mac0:~ fernan$ mkdir ./tmp/c mac0:~ fernan$ 9 mount `namespace`/sources ./tmp/c top level name fuse in fuse.version is invalid mac0:~ fernan$ lc ./tmp/c 9grid adm contrib dist extra lsr patch plan9 wiki xen mac0:~ fernan$ but not my cpu server??? i'm confused. your previous post had srv -a. i thought unauthenticated was srv -A. you may also need -N. - erik sorry for the confusion. I initially tried to mount my cpu server using mac0:~ fernan$ srv thinktank tt mac0:~ fernan$ 9 mount `namespace`/tt ./tmp/g top level name fuse in fuse.version is invalid 9pfuse: fsmount: cannot attach as none before authentication man srv yields SYNOPSIS srv [ -an ] [ -k keypattern ] address [ srvname ] The -a option causes srv to post a pre-authenticated connec- tion to the file system aname (by default, the empty string; see attach(9p)). ...which led me to believe I needed to do an pre-authenticated connection, but as Skip pointed might not be possible if p9p is capable of doing authentication. This then led to the question What do I need to do to allow me mount my cpu server the same way as I can mount sources? fernan -- http://www.fernski.com
Re: [9fans] sources flproto example still accurate
On Thu May 6 11:31:49 EDT 2010, fernanbola...@mailc.net wrote: On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 11:00 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: I dont know, but what is wrong with my configuration if I can mount sources like unauthenticated... mac0:~ fernan$ srv sources.cs.bell-labs.com sources mac0:~ fernan$ mkdir ./tmp/c mac0:~ fernan$ 9 mount `namespace`/sources ./tmp/c top level name fuse in fuse.version is invalid mac0:~ fernan$ lc ./tmp/c 9grid adm contrib dist extra lsr patch plan9 wiki xen mac0:~ fernan$ but not my cpu server??? i'm confused. your previous post had srv -a. i thought unauthenticated was srv -A. you may also need -N. - erik [...] man srv yields SYNOPSIS srv [ -an ] [ -k keypattern ] address [ srvname ] i see now you were talking about p9p srv(4) not fossilcons(8) srv. sorry. the difference with sources is sources allows attach as none. i think you'll need to enable this with your listen via the fossil console. - erik ps. 9fans.net/archive seems to be having a problem. http://9fans.net/archive/2010/05/151 has turned '-' into u+0096 (start of guarded area). i no longer have the original email, but it appeared normal when i read it.
Re: [9fans] sources flproto example still accurate
--- On Thu, 5/6/10, Fernan Bolando fernanbola...@mailc.net wrote: ...which led me to believe I needed to do an pre-authenticated connection, but as Skip pointed might not be possible if p9p is capable of doing authentication. I'm pretty sure it is as long as you have the auth server configured and you have factotum running. I don't have my machine up at the moment, but I do have that kind of connection as part of my login script on FreeBSD using p9p. BLS
Re: [9fans] sources down?
nobody's saying anything, so i will: a kfs system will be left in an allowed state if all the mirrors fail.
Re: [9fans] sources down?
yeah, I noticed the bug the moment I click send :) On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 3:05 AM, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote: nobody's saying anything, so i will: a kfs system will be left in an allowed state if all the mirrors fail. -- Federico G. Benavento
Re: [9fans] sources down?
damn, he found out our evil plan... -- cinap ---BeginMessage--- nobody's saying anything, so i will: a kfs system will be left in an allowed state if all the mirrors fail.---End Message---
Re: [9fans] sources down?
damn, he found out our evil plan... And we would have got away with it if it hadn't been for you pesky kids. -Steve
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Steve Simon st...@quintile.net wrote: damn, he found out our evil plan... And we would have got away with it if it hadn't been for you pesky kids. And their TALKING DOG.
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 5:31 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Anant Narayanan an...@kix.in wrote: On 24-May-09, at 2:17 AM, ron minnich wrote: On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 4:59 PM, J.R. Mauro jrm8...@gmail.com wrote: There are plenty of mirrors, I'm pretty sure the sources is down AGAIN comments could be mitigated by people improving their 9fs scripts. would be interesting to have a server that provided reliability by using whatever mirrors are out there and falling over transparently as things failed. This approach relies on said server being up all the time. Much easier to fix client-side 9fs scripts :) Sorry, by server I did not mean a server machine I meant a 9p server program which you could run How would one know one wasn't getting old data? I've not really looked into replica much though honestly to know how it works, I've just followed the wiki about staying up to date. Perhaps the wiki could be mirrored as well, and we could get a distributed update script? Perhaps this is an area of improvement for Plan 9 in general. ron
Re: [9fans] sources down?
Mr Leimbach, ===8=== How would one know one wasn't getting old data? I've not really looked into replica much though honestly to know how it works, I've just followed the wiki about staying up to date. Perhaps the wiki could be mirrored as well, and we could get a distributed update script? Perhaps this is an area of improvement for Plan 9 in general. ===8=== You can find the wiki here : http://9.9souldier.org/wiki.plan9/plan_9_wiki/ Sources can be found here : sources.lsub.org -- though i'm not sure how up to date they are -- they seem very reliable respectfully, james francis toy (nil)
Re: [9fans] sources down?
also at http://9grid.es/wiki/plan_9_wiki/ How would one know one wasn't getting old data? I've not really looked into replica much though honestly to know how it works, I've just followed the wiki about staying up to date. eh? then what about reading the man pages? anyways, if you're files are older than the ones on the server and the logs match you'll get an update, otherwise you'll get a conflict and changes won't be made to your system You can find the wiki here : http://9.9souldier.org/wiki.plan9/plan_9_wiki/ Sources can be found here : sources.lsub.org -- though i'm not sure how up to date they are -- they seem very reliable respectfully, james francis toy (nil) -- Federico G. Benavento
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 4:38 PM, j...@0xabadba.be wrote: Mr Leimbach, ===8=== How would one know one wasn't getting old data? I've not really looked into replica much though honestly to know how it works, I've just followed the wiki about staying up to date. Perhaps the wiki could be mirrored as well, and we could get a distributed update script? Perhaps this is an area of improvement for Plan 9 in general. ===8=== You can find the wiki here : http://9.9souldier.org/wiki.plan9/plan_9_wiki/ Sources can be found here : sources.lsub.org -- though i'm not sure how up to date they are -- they seem very reliable respectfully, Yeah I guess I was not very clear. How does one find the most up to date mirror :-). How do we know which one is closest to the authoritative source, or should we care? Dave james francis toy (nil)
Re: [9fans] sources down?
this script is probably too naive, but isn't just good enough?
btw, gabriel provides a 9grid.es file to put in /dist/replica
http://9grid.es/index.html?item=srv
; cat $home/bin/rc/pull
#!/bin/rc
rfork e
# network is sources
mirrors=(network 9grid.es kix.in lsub.org)
flags=()
while(! ~ $#* 0 ~ $1 -*){
if(~ $1 -c -s){
flags=($flags $1)
shift
}
flags=($flags $1)
shift
}
if(test -f /srv/kfs.cmd)
disk/kfscmd allow
for(i in $mirrors){
if(replica/pull -v $flags /dist/replica/^$i $*){
if(test -f /srv/kfs.cmd)
disk/kfscmd disallow
exit ''
}
}
exit mirror
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 9:28 PM, David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, May 24, 2009 at 4:38 PM, j...@0xabadba.be wrote:
Mr Leimbach,
===8===
How would one know one wasn't getting old data? I've not really looked
into replica much though honestly to know how it works, I've just followed
the wiki about staying up to date. Perhaps the wiki could be mirrored as
well, and we could get a distributed update script?
Perhaps this is an area of improvement for Plan 9 in general.
===8===
You can find the wiki here :
http://9.9souldier.org/wiki.plan9/plan_9_wiki/
Sources can be found here : sources.lsub.org -- though i'm not sure
how up to date they are -- they seem very reliable
respectfully,
Yeah I guess I was not very clear. How does one find the most up to date
mirror :-). How do we know which one is closest to the authoritative
source, or should we care?
Dave
james francis toy (nil)
--
Federico G. Benavento
Re: [9fans] sources down?
There are plenty of mirrors, I'm pretty sure the sources is down AGAIN comments could be mitigated by people improving their 9fs scripts.
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 4:59 PM, J.R. Mauro jrm8...@gmail.com wrote: There are plenty of mirrors, I'm pretty sure the sources is down AGAIN comments could be mitigated by people improving their 9fs scripts. would be interesting to have a server that provided reliability by using whatever mirrors are out there and falling over transparently as things failed. ron
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On 24-May-09, at 2:17 AM, ron minnich wrote: On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 4:59 PM, J.R. Mauro jrm8...@gmail.com wrote: There are plenty of mirrors, I'm pretty sure the sources is down AGAIN comments could be mitigated by people improving their 9fs scripts. would be interesting to have a server that provided reliability by using whatever mirrors are out there and falling over transparently as things failed. This approach relies on said server being up all the time. Much easier to fix client-side 9fs scripts :) -- Anant
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Anant Narayanan an...@kix.in wrote: On 24-May-09, at 2:17 AM, ron minnich wrote: On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 4:59 PM, J.R. Mauro jrm8...@gmail.com wrote: There are plenty of mirrors, I'm pretty sure the sources is down AGAIN comments could be mitigated by people improving their 9fs scripts. would be interesting to have a server that provided reliability by using whatever mirrors are out there and falling over transparently as things failed. This approach relies on said server being up all the time. Much easier to fix client-side 9fs scripts :) Sorry, by server I did not mean a server machine I meant a 9p server program which you could run ron
Re: [9fans] sources down?
There are plenty of mirrors, I'm pretty sure the sources is down AGAIN comments could be mitigated by people improving their 9fs scripts A 9fs.local (ala termrc.loca)l would solve a lot of customization issues.
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 8:17 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 4:59 PM, J.R. Mauro jrm8...@gmail.com wrote: There are plenty of mirrors, I'm pretty sure the sources is down AGAIN comments could be mitigated by people improving their 9fs scripts. would be interesting to have a server that provided reliability by using whatever mirrors are out there and falling over transparently as things failed. Mycroftiv (on #plan9) was working on some unkillable cpu session that shows promise.
[9fans] sources down?
Hello when I try '9fs sources' I get a timeout establishing connection... (all day today) I guess it's not my problem, or is it? Thanks Ruda (why does this happen SO OFTEN?)
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: (why does this happen SO OFTEN?) warning: complaining about something you get for free is counter-productive. Unless, of course, you are also offering to help in some way. ron
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: (why does this happen SO OFTEN?) warning: complaining about something you get for free is counter-productive. Unless, of course, you are also offering to help in some way. ron there's web-only access at http://sources.coraid.com. - erik
Re: [9fans] sources down?
(why does this happen SO OFTEN?) warning: complaining about something you get for free is counter-productive. Unless, of course, you are also offering to help in some way. ron well, maybe. Maybe not. In order I be of any help I need to know why the hell this happens, first. I know next to nothing about how the whole system of sources works, still I can help if I know how. But I do not remember anybody saying: 'hey guys, we have this and this problem that causes the sources are down every now and then.' Yet we see it happening. You may think it's a question of money (you mentioned it is for free). It's not. There are many projects out, totally for free, but reliable. When I do something it must be reliable, or it's worth criticizing. Ruda
Re: [9fans] sources down?
You may think it's a question of money (you mentioned it is for free). It's not. There are many projects out, totally for free, but reliable. When I do something it must be reliable, or it's worth criticizing. Firstly if sources goes down, no-one dies so it's not a big deal. Secondly, given the choice between a bit unreliable but very cool and very reliable but totally shit, I know which I will take. D
Re: [9fans] sources down?
Warning, posting gratuitous obnoxious condescending comments is counter-productive. Complaining about things on the other hand, it is helpful, specially when certain people insist in being in denial of certain problems. Also note that many people have offered to help, and help is clearly not welcome. If you expect people to contribute to Plan 9 on their copious spare time while they are being treated with this kind of contempt, good luck to you, you are going to need it. Thank you uriel On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 6:51 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: (why does this happen SO OFTEN?) warning: complaining about something you get for free is counter-productive. Unless, of course, you are also offering to help in some way. ron
Re: [9fans] sources down?
Okay Noah, you've been tee'd up. See how easy that was? -Eric Sent from my iPhone On May 22, 2009, at 4:05 PM, Uriel urie...@gmail.com wrote: Warning, posting gratuitous obnoxious condescending comments is counter-productive. Complaining about things on the other hand, it is helpful, specially when certain people insist in being in denial of certain problems. Also note that many people have offered to help, and help is clearly not welcome. If you expect people to contribute to Plan 9 on their copious spare time while they are being treated with this kind of contempt, good luck to you, you are going to need it. Thank you uriel On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 6:51 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:34 AM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: (why does this happen SO OFTEN?) warning: complaining about something you get for free is counter-productive. Unless, of course, you are also offering to help in some way. ron
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: In order I be of any help I need to know why the hell this happens, first. I know next to nothing about how the whole system of sources works, still I can help if I know how. But I do not remember anybody saying: 'hey guys, we have this and this problem that causes the sources are down every now and then.' Yet we see it happening. OK, so let's try again. How about this: instead of blasting a note to the known universe, 99.999% of which can't do anything about the situation, one could do the following: send a polite, discreet note to the people who actually run sources, something like this: I would like to offer to help with making sources easily and readily available to the net. I've noticed that, at times, sources is not accessible. Is there some way in which I can help, by, e.g., running a replicated server? Does this latter approach work? Yes, I have seen it work. It's why we have an improving USB stack. Does the former approach fail? Yes. It has driven some important people from this list. Antisocial behavior has negative consequences. Whining to the list is just, well, ... whining to the list. It ends up looking like an attempt to coerce people by shaming them in a public situation. It's what my kids used to do when they could not get their favorite dessert in the store. It doesn't make anyone feel any better. It's why so many people have Uriel in their kill files. A quiet offer of help to the maintainers is a lot nicer and more likely to actually get somewhere. thanks ron
Re: [9fans] sources down?
The reality is that the sources outages rarely cause any _real_ problems. I wasn't able to access it few days ago, and instead of bothering geoff or jim, I just waited few hours. The server came up and I got what I needed. Lucho On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:43 PM, Uriel urie...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:31 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 10:23 AM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: In order I be of any help I need to know why the hell this happens, first. I know next to nothing about how the whole system of sources works, still I can help if I know how. But I do not remember anybody saying: 'hey guys, we have this and this problem that causes the sources are down every now and then.' Yet we see it happening. OK, so let's try again. How about this: instead of blasting a note to the known universe, 99.999% of which can't do anything about the situation, one could do the following: send a polite, discreet note to the people who actually run sources, something like this: I would like to offer to help with making sources easily and readily available to the net. I've noticed that, at times, sources is not accessible. Is there some way in which I can help, by, e.g., running a replicated server? Does this latter approach work? Yes, I have seen it work. It's why we have an improving USB stack. What improving USB stack? Ah, so doing everything in secret is the way to go? I wonder why don't we just shut down 9fans, open discussion and collaboration is certainly not something anyone wants here anyway. Does the former approach fail? Yes. It has driven some important people from this list. Antisocial behavior has negative consequences. The only antisocial behavior here (besides mine, obviously) was your condescending and insulting answer to somebody that just asked an honest question, and the insinuation that he wasn't ready to help, when you just admitted 99.999% of the people can't do anything about the situation, in great part because people that want to help are made to feel they are unwelcome by comments like yours. Whining to the list is just, well, ... whining to the list. It ends up looking like an attempt to coerce people by shaming them in a public situation. It's what my kids used to do when they could not get their favorite dessert in the store. It doesn't make anyone feel any better. It's why so many people have Uriel in their kill files. It makes people aware of a problem that many keep denying and demeaning. If people can't deal with reality, there are always kill files, as you point out. uriel
Re: [9fans] sources down?
While not having direct knowledge of what caused the current outage, I can say that such outages are rarely caused by Plan 9 or the hardware on which its running. Ok. So what caused the other outrages in the recent past? (I may give at least one other date, on which I even asked the same question to the list; according to you this situation is very rare, according to what I have lived through it happens annoyingly often.) You see, right now, the Plan 9 machine room (and the doom room, and much of the offices/lab space around it) are being repurposed. There are exactly (I think exactly) two people who turn the lights back on every time something like this happens, and they get no accolades from the company for providing this free service to the community -- in fact, their life would be significantly better if they just left the lights off. So please, keep antagonizing them so that they shut this nice free service down -- you'll make their lives considerably more simple and they can get back to doing real work. First, I am grateful, somebody once designed plan 9. It is a well crafted system. Second, if the system is to be hosted as it is now, it is a shame. Make statistics. I don't care who helps, as long as it doesn't work. As ron said, verifying that sources is down on the list (or IRC or whatever) and then sending a polite note to geoff and/or jmk to let them know is fine (since they use this infrastructure as their primary work environment, these problems often cause them more pain than us). I do not know who takes care of the sources. I do not know even there is somebody called geoff. Thus writing that we should appeal to him is a nonsense. Moreover, there is not that many posts here, nobody gets hurt if one writes 'sources are down' here. If it were true and it all worked as it should, you wouldn't have here anything, by the way. Writing to the list also documents that something is wrong. And that's a good thing. Anything beyond that is ridiculous. Also as Ron said, a far more constructive approach is mirroring (which many already do), and an even better idea would be for someone to code up a nice little layer that directs your sources request to the closest available server. So is there a need, suddenly? Isn't it good to discuss it here? What about saying, hey we need it. Who can do it? I guessed this mailing list IS the right place. I am a physicist. I can recognize I like the system in a way. I can't do much about it yet. It's enough for me, that I must struggle with topics like: I need python, there seem too many of them somehow, how should I install it, which one? what is necessary?, why hasn't somebody write a few lines about it?, oh I can't use ssh2, oh probably usb won't work, oh, let's forget about wireless... Encountering problems even when downloading sources is just getting to the breaking point to say: that's enough, let's just stick to something that has some problems, but works somehow (bsd, linux, whatever...; or plan9port, glendix). And that's a pity, because although one knows he would like to follow some way, he is forced to follow a different one. R
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: While not having direct knowledge of what caused the current outage, I can say that such outages are rarely caused by Plan 9 or the hardware on which its running. Ok. So what caused the other outrages in the recent past? (I may give at least one other date, on which I even asked the same question to the list; according to you this situation is very rare, according to what I have lived through it happens annoyingly often.) Again, I'm not there, but to give a bit of insight, they have been in the process of tearing up the machine room and moving the lab around. This means unplugging and moving equipment, moving network equipment, and so forth. The external link to the labs is a special case link which means it probably isn't managed with the rest of the enterprise network. The sources resource is a (probably relatively expensive) public service, which has to be argued for and justified with a larger company that could care less and has been in financial crisis since I left several years ago. It has two people that look after it, who have real jobs outside of caring for the public service, and they have real lives too. So there is no 24/7 support staff, and the environment surrounding these machines is currently in major flux. As ron said, verifying that sources is down on the list (or IRC or whatever) and then sending a polite note to geoff and/or jmk to let them know is fine (since they use this infrastructure as their primary work environment, these problems often cause them more pain than us). I do not know who takes care of the sources. I do not know even there is somebody called geoff. Thus writing that we should appeal to him is a nonsense. Moreover, there is not that many posts here, nobody gets hurt if one writes 'sources are down' here. If it were true and it all worked as it should, you wouldn't have here anything, by the way. Writing to the list also documents that something is wrong. And that's a good thing. As I said, confirming that sources is down on the list is fine. Asking who to contact when this happens is fine. AFAIK, Geoff and jmk read the list and so posting that you are having trouble reaching sources is sufficient. Posting antagonizing commentary: I guess it's not my problem, or is it? (why does this happen SO OFTEN?) is not productive, it just alienates those who have put their careers at risk to support the community. Anything beyond that is ridiculous. Also as Ron said, a far more constructive approach is mirroring (which many already do), and an even better idea would be for someone to code up a nice little layer that directs your sources request to the closest available server. So is there a need, suddenly? Isn't it good to discuss it here? What about saying, hey we need it. Who can do it? I guessed this mailing list IS the right place. The point being made is that if you see a need, please do it. Post the solution. That's productive. If you are not sure how to do it, ask for pointers. If you are unable to provide a solution, ask if there are mirrors. Asking for someone else to solve the problem for you is not productive. There is no one paid to solve problems for the community, we are all volunteers as far as that is concerned. The population of the labs has been reduced dramatically. We, as a community, need to step up and be self-sufficient, or die. -eric
Re: [9fans] sources down?
sources.lsub.org is avaiable just by using 9fs. But it's probably better to wait for the real thing. There are also several other mirrors IIRC that have been posted to this list. On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 1:42 AM, Eric Van Hensbergen eri...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com wrote: While not having direct knowledge of what caused the current outage, I can say that such outages are rarely caused by Plan 9 or the hardware on which its running. Ok. So what caused the other outrages in the recent past? (I may give at least one other date, on which I even asked the same question to the list; according to you this situation is very rare, according to what I have lived through it happens annoyingly often.) Again, I'm not there, but to give a bit of insight, they have been in the process of tearing up the machine room and moving the lab around. This means unplugging and moving equipment, moving network equipment, and so forth. The external link to the labs is a special case link which means it probably isn't managed with the rest of the enterprise network. The sources resource is a (probably relatively expensive) public service, which has to be argued for and justified with a larger company that could care less and has been in financial crisis since I left several years ago. It has two people that look after it, who have real jobs outside of caring for the public service, and they have real lives too. So there is no 24/7 support staff, and the environment surrounding these machines is currently in major flux. As ron said, verifying that sources is down on the list (or IRC or whatever) and then sending a polite note to geoff and/or jmk to let them know is fine (since they use this infrastructure as their primary work environment, these problems often cause them more pain than us). I do not know who takes care of the sources. I do not know even there is somebody called geoff. Thus writing that we should appeal to him is a nonsense. Moreover, there is not that many posts here, nobody gets hurt if one writes 'sources are down' here. If it were true and it all worked as it should, you wouldn't have here anything, by the way. Writing to the list also documents that something is wrong. And that's a good thing. As I said, confirming that sources is down on the list is fine. Asking who to contact when this happens is fine. AFAIK, Geoff and jmk read the list and so posting that you are having trouble reaching sources is sufficient. Posting antagonizing commentary: I guess it's not my problem, or is it? (why does this happen SO OFTEN?) is not productive, it just alienates those who have put their careers at risk to support the community. Anything beyond that is ridiculous. Also as Ron said, a far more constructive approach is mirroring (which many already do), and an even better idea would be for someone to code up a nice little layer that directs your sources request to the closest available server. So is there a need, suddenly? Isn't it good to discuss it here? What about saying, hey we need it. Who can do it? I guessed this mailing list IS the right place. The point being made is that if you see a need, please do it. Post the solution. That's productive. If you are not sure how to do it, ask for pointers. If you are unable to provide a solution, ask if there are mirrors. Asking for someone else to solve the problem for you is not productive. There is no one paid to solve problems for the community, we are all volunteers as far as that is concerned. The population of the labs has been reduced dramatically. We, as a community, need to step up and be self-sufficient, or die. -eric
Re: [9fans] sources down?
On 23-May-09, at 1:54 AM, Francisco J Ballesteros wrote: sources.lsub.org is avaiable just by using 9fs. But it's probably better to wait for the real thing. There are also several other mirrors IIRC that have been posted to this list. % 9fs kix.in /n/sources -- Anant
[9fans] sources browser script?
Speaking of web servers... Is the script that creates the pages for the source browsing on plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/ included in the distribution or otherwise available? It's pretty neat, and may be useful... Thanks in advance! -Ben
Re: [9fans] sources browser script?
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/ip/httpd/webls.c On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 2:38 PM, Benjamin Huntsman bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu wrote: Speaking of web servers... Is the script that creates the pages for the source browsing on plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/ included in the distribution or otherwise available? It's pretty neat, and may be useful... Thanks in advance! -Ben
Re: [9fans] sources browser script?
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/ip/httpd/webls.c That looks to be useful too, though that's not the script that sources is using to generate the pages. The HTML source produced by webls.c looks different than what is produced by the pages. Looks like the script in question should be called sources.tr? Thanks! -Ben winmail.dat
Re: [9fans] sources browser script?
i'm not sure what you mean by script, the server in question probably runs a tweaked version of webls. it's also interesting to note that they managed to hide the /magic/prog stuff from the urls somehow. On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Benjamin Huntsman bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu wrote: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/ip/httpd/webls.c That looks to be useful too, though that's not the script that sources is using to generate the pages. The HTML source produced by webls.c looks different than what is produced by the pages. Looks like the script in question should be called sources.tr? Thanks! -Ben
Re: [9fans] sources browser script?
i think it's a different thing. there's an old thread where ehg mentions it a filtering fs based on exportfs. a filterfs would make this type of thing trivial; i have an outline of one. cgifs is already done (in fgb's contrib) and there's a cgi.c in rsc's contrib that you could use with httpd to get it done in rc. http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/plan9/sys/src/cmd/ip/httpd/webls.c That looks to be useful too, though that's not the script that sources is using to generate the pages. The HTML source produced by webls.c looks different than what is produced by the pages. Looks like the script in question should be called sources.tr? Thanks! -Ben
Re: [9fans] sources browser script?
it's also interesting to note that they managed to hide the /magic/prog stuff from the urls somehow. that's accomplished via /sys/lib/httpd.rewrite. from httpd(8): Httpd handles replacements pre- fixed with @ internally, treating the request as if it were for the replacement (without the @) but not informing the client of the rewritten name. i have a version of httpd that accepts full regular expressions in httpd.rewrite.
