[ActiveDir] GPO design

2005-02-14 Thread Bart Vandyck
Hi all, I just wanted some feedback on this project I'm working on from people with real world knowledge. We have AD in place with and OU structure. I've been asked the make plan to implement GPO's in this organization. I was thinking about creating a GPO for each application we want to manage

[ActiveDir] Authentication issue with Outlook 2003

2005-02-14 Thread Manjeet
The Outlook 2003 fails (running on a user's desktop) to authenticate with exchange 2003 (after restarting the Outlook The user logon dialog comes up and despite putting correct credentials, it cannot connect to Exchange. My Exchange is failing to do the Kerberos authentication with Outlook

RE: [ActiveDir] GPO design

2005-02-14 Thread Jorge de Almeida Pinto
Hi, Be carefull with creating a GPO for each application. If you have a lot of apps and lets say all computers get those apps then those wokstations will go through each GPO and then you may have performance issue. It may be better to consolidate several apps that have similar characteristics

RE: [ActiveDir] Authentication issue with Outlook 2003

2005-02-14 Thread Jorge de Almeida Pinto
HI, As I know off clients and servers that can talk kerberos will talk kerberos. NTLM will only be used if the client or the server cannot use kerberos. Are there other errors in the event log? (MRXSmb messages...) 0x29 (KRB_AP_ERR_MODIFIED) "Message stream modified" This indicates that

RE: [ActiveDir] Authentication issue with Outlook 2003

2005-02-14 Thread Peter Johnson
Ive seen something similar with SMS. Whats your DNS scavenging set to in relation to your DHCP lifecycle? I suspect that you have duplicate host names in your DNS table and the exchange server is selecting the wrong targets KDC key. I had exactly the same issue with SMS server trying to

RE: [ActiveDir] Problem with SUS Group Policy

2005-02-14 Thread Lucia Washaya
Return Receipt Your RE: [ActiveDir] Problem with SUS Group Policy document :

RE: [ActiveDir] Display Computer Name on Desktop

2005-02-14 Thread Salandra, Justin A.
I am going to use the small script that someone sent me in a vbs script during the login processing. Thanks Justin A. Salandra MCSE Windows 2000 2003 Network and Technology Services Manager Catholic Healthcare System 212.752.7300 - office 917.455.0110 - cell [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original

RE: [ActiveDir] Add Computer to Domain

2005-02-14 Thread Salandra, Justin A.
I could follow method three couldn't I? I could remove Authenticated Users and add in my Helpdesk Staff Security Group into the DDC GPO Policy and then modify this default setting to enable them to add many computers to the domain. Someone please check my logic here. Thanks

[ActiveDir] Extend This!

2005-02-14 Thread Myrick, Todd (NIH/CC/DNA)
Dude, I love the marketing T-shirt for your new GPO tool, how did you get that by? Todd

RE: [ActiveDir] [Dreadfully OT]: Interesting little tidbit....

2005-02-14 Thread Mulnick, Al
I suppose the part that gets me, is the what would you use it for? I'm not seeing the application of such a concept exactly. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 2:01 AM To:

RE: [ActiveDir] Add Computer to Domain

2005-02-14 Thread Jorge de Almeida Pinto
Yep, that's one way to do it. I myself would prefer to remove Authenticated Users from the DDC GPO, create a group and assign that group permissions on the OU where the accounts should remain and additionally (if needed) redirect computer account creation to that one OU (as mentioned in

RE: [ActiveDir] Add Computer to Domain

2005-02-14 Thread Salandra, Justin A.
That is also a possibility, however I have multiple domains and workstations exist in different OU's. If I was to go through the process of creating an OU and delegating authority, why not just remove authenticated users, add in the group I want into the DDC GPO and then modify the quota so they

RE: [ActiveDir] AdFind V01.26.00 and general news

2005-02-14 Thread Mulnick, Al
I guess one question I have in the realm of those apps is... How important is a pretty GUI to you versus an app that works well and has good performance? And do you really mean it? What I mean by that is when you look at an app do you make any decisions about it because it is pretty before

[ActiveDir] computers in active directory

2005-02-14 Thread Grumpy Nounet
Hello, I'm studying a compter network using active directory to authenticate the users. I noticed that all the computers of the domain are listed in the directory, and I wonder if this has something to do with authentication. I did not find it on the Internet, I hope someone will be able to

[ActiveDir] OT:Exchange 2003 TCP 18053

2005-02-14 Thread Pelle, Joe
Hello! When I do a netstat an on my Exchange 2003 server I see a lot of connections on TCP 18053. All of our email clients connect to this Exchange server and just about all of them appear to have a connection via this port. No one seems to have any idea what that traffic could be

RE: [ActiveDir] Add Computer to Domain

2005-02-14 Thread David Cliffe
Just FYI - We redirected our default computer creation OU. The nice side effect being that we can now apply policy to that OU (as opposed to the built-in container, where you cannot). Thanks... -DaveC Reuters America -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [ActiveDir] OT:Exchange 2003 TCP 18053

2005-02-14 Thread Tony Murray
Could be that you have a statically mapped port assignment for a particular service (NSPI Proxy, IS, SRS, etc.). Check out the following article. You can the look for the corresponding registry entries. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/270836 Tony From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [ActiveDir] computers in active directory

2005-02-14 Thread Gil Kirkpatrick
Domain-member computers are security principals in Windows networks, which means they have names in Active Directory, and authenticate to Active Directory when they boot up. -gil From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Grumpy Nounet Sent: Mon 2/14/2005 8:24 AM

Re: [ActiveDir] computers in active directory

2005-02-14 Thread Tomasz Onyszko
Grumpy Nounet wrote: Hello, I'm studying a compter network using active directory to authenticate the users. I noticed that all the computers of the domain are listed in the directory, and I wonder if this has something to do with authentication. I did not find it on the Internet, I hope

RE: [ActiveDir] computers in active directory

2005-02-14 Thread Za Vue
This forum may be a little hard for you to comprehend. Maybe you need to go buy some Complete Idiot's Guide books. Z.V. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Grumpy Nounet Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:24 AM To:

RE: [ActiveDir] OT:Exchange 2003 TCP 18053

2005-02-14 Thread Pelle, Joe
Tony, Thanks for the quick response! It doesnt appear that we have a static port assigned though. Joe Pelle Senior Infrastructure Architect Information Technology Valassis / IT 19975 Victor Parkway Livonia, MI 48152 Tel 734.591.7324 Fax 734.632.6151 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [ActiveDir] VERY VERY OT: DEC and Vancouver/Canada

2005-02-14 Thread Gil Kirkpatrick
Couldn't have said it better myself. FWIW, I've already polled a sufficient sample re: a Joeware preso; there's plenty of interest. Even more important is the interests of those who have never heard of joeware. And corporate affiliation doesn't matter either. But I'm not paying for a

RE: [ActiveDir] computers in active directory [List Owner]

2005-02-14 Thread Tony Murray-Smith
Z.V. That's not a helpful response and it's somewhat insulting. There's no minimum level for questions on this list. Remember that nearly all of us started out with little or no knowledge of AD. Tony ActiveDir List Owner -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL

RE: [ActiveDir] OT:Exchange 2003 TCP 18053

2005-02-14 Thread Mulnick, Al
Joe, can you confirm the app that's listening on that port? Do you have other applications on the client that might be using that port to connect? What kind of traffic do you see destined for that port on the wire? There's no set reason that port would be used out of the box that I'm aware

RE: [ActiveDir] OT:Exchange 2003 TCP 18053

2005-02-14 Thread Coleman, Hunter
Sounds like this is the port that Exchange has chosen for RPC traffic with the Outlook clients. Unless you make a registry change on the server, Exchange will pick ports above 1024 (more or less randomly)for RPC with clients. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/155831has a passing mention of

[ActiveDir] override default domain policy

2005-02-14 Thread cflesher
I was in a meeting last week and the issue came up if it is possible to override the default domain policy and set policies on each domain. I always understood that you couldn't do this. But if you block inheritance and apply another policy on an OU, what happens? Furthermore is supposed to

[ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread Thommes, Michael M.
One of our admins restored a DC from a backup greater than 60 days old. There are no newer backup copies. Replication is not working - Access denied. Also, the restored DC cannot be dcpromo'd out. Rebuilding the computer from scratch is not an option. Repadmin and nltest operations are

RE: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread Mulnick, Al
Why is DCPROMO not an option? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Thommes, Michael M. Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:27 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery? One of our admins

RE: [ActiveDir] override default domain policy

2005-02-14 Thread Darren Mar-Elia
In general, any GPO linked to the domain will have conflicting settings overriden if a container (OU) down the tree sets block inheritance. The DDP is no different. However, some policies, like account policy, will not be affected by block inheritance on regulard OUssince it will be

RE: [ActiveDir] VERY VERY OT: DEC and Vancouver/Canada

2005-02-14 Thread Fugleberg, David A
Title: Message Careful, Gil...if they keep you there in those conditions long enough you'll start to identify with your captors and protect them (see Stockholm Syndrome). Joe, you should be retained just for the entertainment value during breaks and such - I learned stuff just listening to

[ActiveDir] remote control users desktop

2005-02-14 Thread Ben D. Kusa
I think I am missing something obvious, It looks like there is an option to remote control a computer with active directory and it gives the option of interacting with the users session. I can never get it interact with the users session it always locks the users screen and then gives me

RE: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread Ruston, Neil
If a bare metal machine rebuild is not an option, then why not change the tombstone period to 60 days and then restore your DC again? [i.e. if your restore is 80 days old, then set the tombstone value to 81] Modify the tombstonelifetime attribute value in

Re: [ActiveDir] GPO design

2005-02-14 Thread Bart Vandyck
Hi Jorge, Great input.. But do i understand you correct that performance is depended on the amount of different GPO instead of the settings done by these gpo's? rgds, Bart On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 10:47:43 +0100, Jorge de Almeida Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, Be carefull with creating a

Re: [ActiveDir] remote control users desktop

2005-02-14 Thread Tomasz Onyszko
Ben D. Kusa wrote: I think I am missing something obvious, It looks like there is an option to remote control a computer with active directory and it gives the option of interacting with the users session. I can never get it interact with the users session it always locks the users screen and

RE: [ActiveDir] override default domain policy

2005-02-14 Thread Perdue David J Contr InDyne/Enterprise IT
Personally, instead of blocking the default domain policy I would create seperate policy objects with the settingsthat I wanted filtered/blocked. But your "set policies on each domain" leads me to believe that there are multiple domains in the forest involved here? Domains by their nature

RE: [ActiveDir] override default domain policy

2005-02-14 Thread cflesher
Well, I think faster than I type. What I meant to say is "set policies on each OU". I'm pretty sure that changes the response a little bit. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Perdue David J Contr InDyne/Enterprise ITSent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:42 PMTo:

RE: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread Thommes, Michael M.
It's not that DCPROMO was not an option, it just didn't work - also access denied. Mike Thommes -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mulnick, Al Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 11:39 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir]

RE: [ActiveDir] GPO design

2005-02-14 Thread Chandra Burra
I suggest have SUS or WUS in the business and create one GP for implementation of all patches and updates from MS at one go... Other applications consolidate into one and publish. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bart Vandyck Sent: 14

RE: [ActiveDir] remote control users desktop

2005-02-14 Thread Ben D. Kusa
Is there anyway to share a session without having users intervention? Or do you have to use third-party? It is client side I am looking to control, what I am looking for is a helpdesk remote control utility. Thanks Ben Kusa Simpson Gumpertz Heger -Original Message- From: [EMAIL

[ActiveDir] DC - rebuld issues

2005-02-14 Thread Chandra Burra
Hi, I have a typical issue with re-building a DC. I am currently in the stage of re-creating a AD domain for DR documentation. Have installed W2k server -- trying to restore for a backup tape from the live system ( whole C drive and the System state) -- make registry changes for RPC and NTFRS

RE: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread Mulnick, Al
So...technically, after the restore, the dc doesn't really exist in the organization anymore (well, it's been cleaned up) but likely has some remnants from the restore. Is that correct? What I'm getting at is that DCPROMO shouldn't work because that DC technically doesn't exist. It's an island

[ActiveDir] Automate Computer Name Changes

2005-02-14 Thread Dan DeStefano
I have not been able to find a way to sufficiently solve the following problem: automatically changing computer names after imaging. I would like to reassign computer names based on a company naming convention plus variable. So a computer name would be something like dny01pd***, with the

RE: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread Grillenmeier, Guido
really depends on how much issues you'd want afterwards - if you have another DC in your domain, why is it so critical to bring this one back? Sounds like you have some Apps on it that you need to keep - but you should be able to get rid of AD. If so, the safest method is to demote it forcefully

Re: [ActiveDir] remote control users desktop

2005-02-14 Thread Jason B
You'll need a third party app to do *exactly* what you're asking. VNC does it, and it's free. http://www.realvnc.com/ - Original Message - From: Ben D. Kusa [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 12:34 PM Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] remote

RE: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread Cace, Andrew
If DCPROMO won't work, even with the /FORCEREMOVAL flag, the following MS KB Article has a reghack that will allow you to remove the domain controller. We had to do this at a remote site in Europe, where the technical guys had gone home for the day.

RE: [ActiveDir] Automate Computer Name Changes

2005-02-14 Thread Brian Desmond
Dan- You can certainly script this with netdom. If you want to use sysprep, you could set the compnay name to be that dny01pd, and then sysprep will populate the rest with random crap. --Brian Desmond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Payton on the web! www.wpcp.org v - 773.534.0034 x135 f - 773.534.8101

RE: [ActiveDir] Automate Computer Name Changes

2005-02-14 Thread Michael Wassell
Is it safe to assume that RIS is not an option? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian DesmondSent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:44 PMTo: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.orgSubject: RE: [ActiveDir] Automate Computer Name Changes Dan- You can certainly script

RE: [ActiveDir] DC - rebuld issues

2005-02-14 Thread Fuller, Stuart
I have seen a similar thing while using Ntbackup during our DR drills. The first restore goes along and doesn't really complete (no log file pops up and no warning - ntbackup simply stops and exits somewhere in the AD portion of the restore). You reboot the server and you login with local admin

Re: [ActiveDir] Question: AD Group Policy not taking effect

2005-02-14 Thread Umer Y.
Where do I enable detailed reporting? At the server, or at the client? How do I do it? Thanks for the help. Anyone else has any further ideas? Thanks. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: Re: [ActiveDir] Question: AD Group Policy

Re: [ActiveDir] remote control users desktop

2005-02-14 Thread James_Day
Hi Ben Try using remote assistance. There are two ways to use it. First, user requests assistance, in which case the user must send a request file to the helpdesk (either via. email, MSN, or put a file on the network and access it). The second way is to let the helpdesk initiate - at which

RE: [ActiveDir] remote control users desktop

2005-02-14 Thread Jorge de Almeida Pinto
Ik you're using winxp, you should use Remote Assistance instead of using Remote Desktop http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/rmassist.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/helpandsupport/learnmore/remoteassist/intro.mspx Cheers jorge From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [ActiveDir] GPO design

2005-02-14 Thread Jorge de Almeida Pinto
Yep Lets say you some apps that ALL users get and you have a lot of apps. In that case I think it is better to create one GPO with those default available apps instead of creating a GPO for each app. This depends on how many apps you and you to distribute with AD Cheers Jorge -Original

RE: [ActiveDir] Automate Computer Name Changes

2005-02-14 Thread Dan DeStefano
I would prefer not to use RIS as there are a lot of customizations that I make to the OS, many of which cannot be done with unattended installation via RIS (or, at least I do not know or any way). Dan From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael

RE: [ActiveDir] RIS Unattended (Was: Automate Computer Name Changes)

2005-02-14 Thread Crawford, Scott
Id be interested in the customizations youre unable to make using RIS. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dan DeStefano Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 3:23 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Automate Computer Name Changes

RE: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread Grillenmeier, Guido
I'm very surprised to see that reghack still listed in a public KB - it was to be taken out many months ago - this is obviously the last resort to do and is very risky when used by the wrong type of people. /Guido -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

RE: [ActiveDir] RIS Unattended (Was: Automate Computer Name Changes)

2005-02-14 Thread Michael Wassell
You may want to do a bit of research into RIS Dan, more specifically the [Components] portion if that is the type of customization you are referring to. Here is a URL that I keep handy: http://tinyurl.com/3p8g9 As for any registry changes, that can be scripted fairly easily. Software

RE: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread Jorge de Almeida Pinto
I agree with Guido that the FORCEREMOVAL option is the safest one besides reinstalling a DC. However I understand that some apps don't like (or not supprted) the DC there installed on is demoted and again promoted (e.g. Exchange) There is another way accept replication with a DC that has been

Re: [ActiveDir] GPO design

2005-02-14 Thread Bart Vandyck
I'm not gonna do software distrubution or patches with GPO. We have started an SMS 2003 upgrade project for that.. I think only basic software will be managed: Windows XP, IE 6, Office XP 2003,... thnks, Bart On Mon, 14 Feb 2005 22:16:57 +0100, Jorge de Almeida Pinto [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [ActiveDir] Two little tools ...

2005-02-14 Thread Dean Wells
Title: Message Neil quickly observed that the script wasn't written to deal with W2K ... for those interested, I've enclosed a version that is. Dean --Dean WellsMSEtechnology* Email: dwells@msetechnology.comhttp://msetechnology.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On

RE: [ActiveDir] VERY VERY OT: DEC and Vancouver/Canada

2005-02-14 Thread joe
Ouch, I'm actually bleeding... On the MI in March. It definitely isn't fun. But if you get on a plane, you tend to want to end up someplace which is considerably better. :o) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent:

RE: [ActiveDir] suggestions for tombstoned DC recovery?

2005-02-14 Thread joe
Wow, I can't believe they actually still have that hack officially documented. I recall when someone asked Kwan about it at last year's spring DEC he about tripped over his own tongue and nearly fell off the podium trying to spit out how unsupported that was but he understood the reasoning behind

RE: [ActiveDir] VERY VERY OT: DEC and Vancouver/Canada

2005-02-14 Thread joe
Title: Message Thanks David. I didn't think of it from the Entertainment standpoint. :o) I am usually just trying to keep myself entertained. Seriously though, glad you found my jabbering useful/interesting/entertaining. The idea that my presence alone was helpful or useful to the point

RE: [ActiveDir] computers in active directory [List Owner]

2005-02-14 Thread joe
Heck I like those Idiot books. Those are generally very well written. I think I still have a copy of some Idiot's guide to AD laying about and have been known to open it and look things up even after I wrote my first AD program. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [ActiveDir] VERY VERY OT: DEC and Vancouver/Canada

2005-02-14 Thread joe
Well for part of this Guido woudn't be bad for... He would just have to get rid of that five o'clock shadow. _ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gil Kirkpatrick Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 10:52 AM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE:

RE: [ActiveDir] [Dreadfully OT]: Interesting little tidbit....

2005-02-14 Thread Rick Kingslan
Ahh... but I just said that it was cool - not useful. I'm impressed by the simple fact that it runs. You might say from a purely technical aspect it's cool. Utilitarian - maybe not so much. Many times, it's just the Wow factor, and nothing else. -rtk -Original Message- From: [EMAIL

RE: [ActiveDir] Two little tools ...

2005-02-14 Thread Michael B. Smith
Title: Message Twenty years ago I could write /bin/sh scripts in svr3, but Windows batch files - I never really"got" them. People like you who can produce these types of things in cmd/batch are quite admirable. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dean

RE: [ActiveDir] Two little tools ...

2005-02-14 Thread Rick Kingslan
Title: Message You havent met Dean face to face, have you? VBG Just kidding, Dean -rtk From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Michael B. Smith Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:27 PM To: ActiveDir@mail.activedir.org Subject: RE: [ActiveDir] Two

RE: [ActiveDir] Display Computer Name on Desktop

2005-02-14 Thread Cothern Jeff D. Team EITC
I don't know a lot about scripting or vbs. But can I take the below Lines of text starting at CONST and paste that into a notepad and save it as .vbs does that work or do I need to use some vbs program? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of

RE: [ActiveDir] Display Computer Name on Desktop

2005-02-14 Thread Brian Desmond
Thats enough. Windows knows what program to use to execute them. To run frm a commandline - cscript myscript.vbs :) --Brian Desmond [EMAIL PROTECTED] Payton on the web! www.wpcp.org v - 773.534.0034 x135 f - 773.534.8101 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of

[ActiveDir] Invitation

2005-02-14 Thread Manjeet Jakhar
Title: Invitation from Manjeet Jakhar activedir@mail.activedir.org, Come join my network at hi5! I now have over 2 friends in my network! You can meet all of them, plus more than 7 million other

RE: [ActiveDir] GPO design

2005-02-14 Thread John Reijnders
Hi Bart, The *main* performance hit is caused by the actual settings set in a GPO, *not* the number of GPO's. However, besides performance, managebility is important thing to consider when you're designing your GPO structure. A limit you have to take into account is the maximum number of GPO's