I have a small-ish TSM 8.1.2 with a single db volume. 250GB with only 99GB
used. It's on a V7000 that's being returned off lease. I have another V7000
to use. Is it possible to:
1. Allocate another 250GB drive on the new V7000
2. Stop TSM and make sure DB2 instance stops
3. Copy
Is there a way to backup NDF files as part of the database backup? I have a
customer with a database with an NDF file the use for 'archiving'. That
doesn't get included as part of the TDPSQLC BACKUP * FULL command. How can I
get that included in the SQL backup of the server? Or do I need to use
@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Craig
McAllister
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 1:28 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] ANS1357S after upgrade to V8.1.2 Server
Possibly this?
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg21676282
On 19 Sep 2017 8:55 p.m., "Bill Boyer&qu
a
compatibility matrix just for serve V8.1.2.
Tia,
Bill Boyer
"Enjoy life. It has an expiration date." - ??
I have a V6.3.5 TSM server (Linux) that I've "cloned" to another system for
testing. I've upgraded it to V8.1.2 and now all my clients fail to connect
with back-level client code or certification issues. The V6 server is not
configured to use SSL at all. How can I get my 8.1.2 server after
Is there a way to replace the self-signed certificate with one from a
certificate provider so you don't get the connection error in your browser?
I have a customer that wants to use their *.company.com site certificate for
accessing the OC.
Oh, they are V7.1.7.
TIA,
Bill Boyer
Was looking and the latest client API I could find with iOS support was
V6.2. Did TSM/Spectrum Protect stop iOS support?
Bill Boyer
"You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when
you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest
of the day. " - ??
Where can I download older TSM clients prior to V5.5? The FTP site only goes
back as far as V5.5 to be able to download. They still have the ADSM
clients, but I can't find anything older than V5.5.
Bill
ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Bill
Boyer
Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 7:24 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] HPUX Old Client
That was the oldest client requirement page online I could find. I'll try
looking at the readme's for some of the
@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] HPUX Old Client
Out of curiosity, I went down the "rabbit hole" and even at the 5.5 client
level, it lists 11i V2 so my guess would be older than 5.5
http://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg21700848
On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 5:24 PM, Bill Bo
does someone know what the lastest TSM client version for HP-UX 11i V1? I
know it's old, but this is an old system moving over from CommVault to TSM.
Bill Boyer
"There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems." -??
Trying to run the reduce max to get space back in my database per technote
https://www-01.ibm.com/support/docview.wss?uid=swg21992410. When I try to
run the DB2 ALTER TABLESPACE it returns that it's an invalid command. How do
I run this on Windows2012 and TSM V7.1.7?
TIA,
Bill
need a reorg and what need a reduce max. The
reduce max estimates can be a bit to optimistic but still, never good
indication or where your attention should be.
Good luck
Stefan
On Thu, Apr 20, 2017 at 2:28 PM, Bill Boyer <bjdbo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Offline re-org? Does that m
command, if
you have them I would also suggest asking IBM for support.
On Wed, Apr 12, 2017 at 9:03 PM, Bill Boyer <bjdbo...@comcast.net> wrote:
> I converted a server over to directory container polls and replication.
> Their previous FILE stgpool was around 140TB of data. Af
.
I'm thinking if I remove replication from all the nodes until I'm done with
the conversion it should help? Then change each node back for replication
and start the schedule.
TIA,
Bill Boyer
"There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems." -??
and visa versa.
TIA,
Bill Boyer
Free Tip: The F1 Key does NOT destroy your PC! - ??
in the registry
keys they are in there. They just will not show up on the MMC GUI plugin.
But only for that one TSM server. He actually has 5 of them and the other 4
work/display just fine.
Has anyone seen this behavior before and a way to resolve it?
TIA,
Bill Boyer
"Enjoy life. It has an expir
/migration.
Bill Boyer
"Nothing sucks more than that moment during an argument when you realize
you're wrong. " - ??
is ignored in the DSM.OPT file. I know it says *NIX only,
but I was hoping.
Anybody know of a way to get TSM to follow that symbolic link on the drive?
Bill Boyer
There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -??
, 2015 12:24 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADSM-L] Windows and symbolic links
Access Denied sounds like a permission or authentication error somewhere.
George Huebschman (George H.)
From: Bill Boyer bjdbo...@comcast.net
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU,
Date: 08/14/2015 12:11 PM
Subject
Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of
Bill Boyer
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2015 10:08 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: [ADSM-L] Windows and symbolic links
Windows 2012R2 server
TSM 7.1.2.0 client
The customer has a drive with a symbolic link off to a UNC share path.
When
Check in vCenter on the Tasks Events tab for that VM. Might be more VMware
specific information there.
Bill
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Lee,
Gary
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2015 1:47 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject:
Does TSM/VE support VMware V6? Primarily for the data mover.
Bill Boyer
You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when
you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest
of the day. - ??
@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 06/10/2015
06:28:25 AM:
From: Bill Boyer bjdbo...@comcast.net
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Date: 06/10/2015 06:29 AM
Subject: [ADSM-L] Installing TSM 7.1.1 Sent by: ADSM: Dist Stor
Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
I have 2 servers, Windows 2008R2 currently running V6.3.4 TSM Server
it is
installed and restarted, you will be able to see the other packages.
Rob Jose
TSM OC UI Developer / L3 Support
ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU wrote on 06/10/2015
06:28:25 AM:
From: Bill Boyer bjdbo...@comcast.net
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Date: 06/10/2015 06:29 AM
Subject: [ADSM-L
package. There's plenty of disk space. Made sure to run as administrator.
Any idea why it will not list the TSM packages? Is there any log file that I
can check to see why?
Bill Boyer
There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -??
TSM V6.3 on Windows
The volhist file copies were all lost but the .DBS files are still around.
Is there a way to know the backup Series: and Volume Seq: so I can fudge up
a simple volhist with a single BACKUPFULL entry. Or doesn't that matter on a
restore? Or is that information compared to
help or suggestions is very appreciated!
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
save on cost. I've found all kinds of versions, but not OS compatibilities
in the documentation.
Anyone help out?
TIA,
Bill
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
I know it can't be official, but any guestimates? I have a customer wants
TSM but on Windows2012R2 for the server and are willing to wait. But not too
long.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
TSM AC 6.3.4.300
IE 9
Seems to work fine, but when I try the command line I get the windows, type
in a command and . nothing. Don't see the command being issues to the TSM
server and it never comes back. You can't even click the Stop button.
Any ideas?Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
running the
install I don't get asked for a reboot.
Bill Boyer
“If 'something' 'somewhere' gives 'some' error, expect random guesses or no
replies at all.” - ??
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Hans
Christian Riksheim
Sent
,
are all DB volumes online or do you have some of them varied offline? We had
this on our site, where not all DB volume copies were online when we started
the upgrade.
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 8:48 PM, Bill Boyer bjdbo...@comcast.net wrote:
The extractdb and insertdb phase of the upgrade seems
Try this link:
https://www.ndm.net/isilon/pdf/ndmp-configuration-guide-for-ibm-tivoli-storage-manager.pdf
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of Grant
Street
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2014 4:25 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re:
the extract/insert phase.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
Using the legacy backup method because the customer has a requirement to
restore to other SQL servers. Refreshing test/dev from production backups.
Has anyone seen errors in SQL about stalled and stuck I/O?
SQL2005, Windows 2003.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has
to really practice
with.
Or any other opinions on whether I should just go with V6.3.4 and wait for
the first maintenance fix on V7.1.
Bill Boyer
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
Storage Manager V5 server that
runs on an AIX, HP-UX, or Solaris operating system can be migrated to V6.3.4
or later on a Linux x86_64 operating system.
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of
Bill Boyer
Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2014 5:59 PM
. I don't want to have to create a whole new policy domain
and set of nodes for this.
Any help is appreciated as always.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
was the outcome?
On 1 April 2014 23:22, Bill Boyer bjdbo...@comcast.net wrote:
V5.5.7.0 on AIX converting over the network to V6.3.4.0 on Linux RedHat.
The V5 DB is 260GB at 90%.
The TSM DB is defined on 4x100GB file systems /tsmdb01 - /tsmdb04.
Active log is 32GB and archive log file
ideas? I've got about 2-3 more hours to see if adding the 100GB of
database space will resolve the problem.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
?
Anyone done it? Gotcha's? How does the extractdb know what is a scratch tape
in the library inventory?
Bill Boyer
You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when
you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest
of the day. - ??
be and
still allowing to swap export tapes/data.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
the order of the tapes for the import? Or doesn't it
matter as long as I specify all of them on the IMPORT command? Or am I just
plain SOL?
Bill Boyer
You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when
you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive
Only come across a need once in 16-years of working with *SM. This customer
wanted to do periodic full backups. So I had a policy set with set to the
default MODE=MODIFIED and another set to MODE=ABSOLUTE. They would activate
the full policy set when they wanted to do the complete refresh. And
snapshots with invalid parents and the VM was totally unresponsive.
These events seem to occur when the TSM/VE backup completes and the snapshot
is deleted. We are at VMware 5.5.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
it runs.. they just want to recovery as much as they
can.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
What version of the TDPO agent do I need to support Oracle 12 on AIX?
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
.
There are so many files migrated that the V5.5 client (I know..old)
terminates if I ask for everything. I would like to do it one directory at a
time from the volume.
Any help is appreciated.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
multiple restores on the same data mover server?
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
there was a
notepad asking to save the file. The other just kinda went away and the
customer was not happy.
Is there a way to do the install and NOT have it automagically reboot during
that Microsoft install?
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
Anyone have a link to how to configure the dual fibre ports on an LTO5 drive
in a TS3310 tape library?
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
Anyone know?
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
that with the
vSphere API
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
/Exchange client and the DSMAGENT.
Thanks,
Del
ADSM: Dist Stor Manager ADSM-L@vm.marist.edu wrote on 01/15/2013
04:12:26 PM:
From: Bill Boyer bjdbo...@comcast.net
To: ADSM-L@vm.marist.edu,
Date: 01/15/2013 06:53 PM
Subject: Re: TDP Exchange
as the
same domain userid I used to successfully backup while logged on.
Never seen this one before. Scheduler fails with the same userid that works
if I logon locally. My Windows guy is stumped, too.
Any ideas?
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
I've seen this in libraries that are able to be partitioned... like a TS3310
library. By default you always get the system partition and when you add
tapes to the I/O door the library will scan the slots and then put up a
prompt on the front panel asking which logical library you want the tapes to
[mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of
Bill Boyer
Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2013 5:10 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: [ADSM-L] TDP Exchange 2010 scheduled backups fail rc=1819
Windows 2008 R2 server running Exchange 2010. Installed the agent and my
Exchange admin gave me a userid
the instance (and DB2)
come up? This way they customer wouldn't have to restore from the last
DBBackup and potentially lose data.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
You could start by getting a list of nodes that are set to either
COMPRESSION=CLIENT or YES and those with DEDUPLICATION=CLIENTORSERVER. The
default is SERVERONLY. Those would be good candidates to start with. You
can't do client-side dedup without setting the node attribute.
Bill
When the pin is
out a way to guess what vCenter doesn't
like
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
=swg1IC79885
Amos
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of
Bill Boyer
Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2012 6:31 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: [ADSM-L] Restore VM problems at D/R
I'm able to restore some, but most of them. especially
the Console you can then run
Disable event Console ANR1626
Best Regards
Christian Svensson
Cell: +46-70-325 1577
E-mail: christian.svens...@cristie.se
Experts on Backup and Recovery www.cristie.se
-Ursprungligt meddelande-
Från: Bill Boyer [mailto:bjdbo...@comcast.net]
Skickat: den 2
/updates, but
protected me from seeing all their queries. I found it very handy.
On 8/2/2012 12:19 PM, Bill Boyer wrote:
Just upgraded my TSM server instance from V6.2.3.0 to V6.3.1.0 and now
when I run the DSMADMC -CONSOLE mode all I get are ANR1626I
messages...not any real messages
of
the message ID.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
Is there a version of the TDP SQL Server that supports MS SQL Server 2012? I
have some users putting up a Sharepoint 2010 Farm using SQL 2012 for the
database.
And while I'm on the subject, does the latest TDP Sharepoint/DocAve support
SQL 2012 in the Farm? It's a SharePoint 2010 Farm.
Bill
khdmig.jar
migratewarehouse.bat
And are in the C:\IBM\itm\TMAITM6 directory.or should be. My installation
doesn't have these files. Without them you can't do the migrate.
Any idea how I can get these installed?
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
The TDP's are all run as an ACTION=COMMAND schedule to run the agent
program. Like SQLFULL.CMD or EXCFULL.CMD that come as the .SMP files you
customize. I normally use the same CAD for all scheduling for a node. That
way I don't need to worry about the incremental backup running at the same
time
By default, the target of the DDR replication is read-only. You can either
mark all you volumes in TSM read-only or you could create a snapshot of the
target and use that for TSM. You can always break the replication in a true
D/R.
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager
I just have an admin schedule that runs after the last hourly log job and
before the dif/full backup job that updates the log backup schedule to a
STARTDATE/STARTTIME= to however many hours the diff/full backup runs.
Bill
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager
Anyone out there using TSM with ExaGrid disk backup appliances? I have a
customer looking at them. Looking for any user experiences, if you're
willing to share them.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
when the key is handed out whenever a restore is performed?
That must be why I've only ever used encryptkey save in the past.
On 22 March 2012 19:57, Bill Boyer bjdbo...@comcast.net wrote:
With the ENCRYPTKEY GENERATE specified the client creates the key at
the beginning of the backup
.
The include.encrypt will only effect future backups, not any backups already
encrypted and stored on the TSM server.
Bill Boyer
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those that understand binary and
those that don't. - ??
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L
this excessive wait
time?
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
night the SQL resource failed over and my service didn't.
Have failed SQL backups this morning.
If I try to add a generic service to the SQL resource, it doesn't appear to
give me the option to replicate registry keys.
Any help would be appreciated.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
to the replicated copy and avoid re-pointing
the devclass.
Our connectivity is UNC across a private network.
We are a month or two from the DR testing.
Andy Huebner
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of
Bill Boyer
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2011 9:14
are basically unavailable.
Just wondering how anyone else using DDR replication for TSM.
Bill Boyer
DSS, Inc.
(610) 927-4407
Enjoy life. It has an expiration date. - ??
One thing I've found with the TS3310's is that unless you turn off the
insert notification/prompt, when you put tapes in the I/O door the library
will prompt you for which library to reserve the tapes for. The default is
'SYSTEM', and unless you respond to the prompt on the front panel of the
: prepareForRestore() returned '4346'
TSM return code : 4346
TSM file : vssrest.cpp ()
11/09/2011 10:39:58 ANS1951E Restore using Microsoft volume shadow copy
failed.
Windows 2003 32-bit
TSM Client 5.5.4.0 and then tried again with 6.1.3.0
TSM Server 5.5.4.0
Bill
.
Bill Boyer
There are seldom good technological solutions to behavioral problems. -??
'.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Bill Boyer
Free Tip: The F1 Key does NOT destroy your PC! - ??
?
Bill Boyer
Everyday is a Holiday. Every Formation a Parade. Every Meal a feast.. And.
Every Village has their idiot.. - ?
Just do these steps and you won't have to do anything from month to month to
get full backups:
1. put all these nodes in their own policy domain
2. copy the policy set in that domain to a new name.
copy po standard standard standard-full
3. for each management class in the standard-full
set.
Just don't forget that if you're doing retention by versions, that this full
is going to be another version whether the file has changed or not. You
could end up with a lot of your backup files having the active and the most
recent inactive version being the same copy of the file.
Bill Boyer
Is there a way to list the management class a particular Domino mailbox
backup is assigned? I need to verify that specific mailbox backups are
assigned to a different management class than DEFAULT which has a longer
retention policy. For remediation. The GUI for restore doesn't list that as
a
from backups where
node_name='DOMINO-CLIENT-NAME-ALLCAPS'
You'll get better performance if you can also specify ... and
filespace_name='blah'
but I don't' know how those are named for Domino
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU] On Behalf Of
Bill
to be
done all at the same time to keep things in sync. The Lotus connections
manuals when you search on BACKUP only comes up in a section for doing a
backup before an upgrade.
Any help in figuring this out is very much appreciated!
Bill Boyer
is greatly appreciated!
Bill Boyer
Of
David E Ehresman
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2011 1:58 PM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: Re: ANR8939E on new TSM server
Never mind. You said Windows.
Bill Boyer bjdbo...@verizon.net 4/4/2011 1:18 PM
Windows 2008R2 and an Adaptec 29320LPE SCSI adapter connected to TS3310 and
LTO3 drives
is not
adequate for running ibm tivoli storage manager client. Can't even
uninstall the thing! My Google searches haven't picked up anything that
matches. Anyone else seen these errors and know of a way around 'em?
WINVER.EXE shows I'm at Release 5.2 SP2 (Windows 2003)
TIA
Bill Boyer
about learning how to dance in the rain. - ??
Bill Boyer
be appreciated?
Is there any link out there on doing a complete Exchange 2007 rebuild? What
do I need to minimally do to be able to restore.
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning how to dance in the rain. - ??
Bill Boyer
Help topic.
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning how to dance in the rain. - ??
Bill Boyer
the results of these request :
tdpexcc q tsm
tdpexcc q tdp
tpdexcc q exchange
Thanks.
-Message d'origine-
De : ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] De la part de
Bill Boyer Envoyé : vendredi 17 décembre 2010 15:50 À : ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Objet : [ADSM-L] Exchange 2010
about learning how to dance in the rain. - ??
Bill Boyer
systems without having to disable this for the DB
restore.
Bill Boyer
-Original Message-
From: ADSM: Dist Stor Manager [mailto:ads...@vm.marist.edu] On Behalf Of
Christian Svensson
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2010 1:46 AM
To: ADSM-L@VM.MARIST.EDU
Subject: SV: Restore TSM server to Win 2008
Hi
:36 PM, Bill Boyer wrote:
This is an old Netware box but it's starting to give off this error
during the backup. The backup of the SYS: drive is successful, but
this error is causing the backup job to fail. Anyone have an idea of
why the TSA name would be blank?
10/26/2010 02:46:05 ANS1872E
Just one comment...there are actually 2 copies of the migrated file's data.
1 is the backup copy and the other is the migrated copy. You can configure
HSM to make sure there is a backup copy of the file before migration. But
since you're going on last referenced date, then probably that file was
Is there a way to assign the Hyper-V BACKUP VM backups to a different
management class?
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning how to dance in the rain. - ??
Bill Boyer
with replication and was curious if anyone was using any of these
models out there.
TIA
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass...
It's about learning how to dance in the rain. - ??
Bill Boyer
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