Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
We have an FM station that is giving me fits. Knocking us down to 10mbps on our APs but not our backhauls which are lower. We have added Ferrite beads they helped some. Updated our surge suppression to newer and it helped some, I have loops but not 5. I just tried isolating our ground to see if it helped. It didn’t. So the question I have is how important do you think the bonding of grounds is in eliminating the 10mbps drops? Hell sometimes it drops completely. I am glad Jay started this post. Jay, if it’s a low power station I think the beads will help. -Original Message- From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of George Skorup Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 2:23 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station We're on a 17kW Tx/50kW ERP station. I do see some CRC/FCS errors once in a while, but mostly no problems. And some other lower power stations. Under 100W at ~100MHz should be zero issues. There's something else going on. I'd say check grounding, make sure everyone including utility are bonded. On 1/23/2018 1:55 PM, Jay Weekley wrote: > Gotcha. > > ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >> The coil turns should be all within one inch of each other. >> >> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley >> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:43 PM >> To: af@afmug.com >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station >> >> Sorry for the dumb question. What should be 1 inch in length? >> >> ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>> Well, lets say you want the coil to present 10,000 ohms of series >>> inductive reactance. >>> xl=2 pi f l >>> xl/100e6 * 2* pi = l = 16 microhenrys >>> >>> L = R*R*T*T/(9R + 10 L) >>> >>> 8 turns on a 6 inch diameter with a length of 1 inch ought to do it. >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:26 PM >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station >>> >>> Chuck, how tight does the coil need to be? >>> >>> ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: >>>> Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 >>>> cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too >>>> if you have enough slack. >>>> Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus >>>> on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. >>>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station we are collocated >>>> with a radio station in another town that has been causing our >>>> ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. >>>> i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be >>>> replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to >>>> negotiate at 10 meg? >>>> thanks >>>> the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts >>>> >>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=lin >>>> k_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> >>>> Virus-free. www.avg.com >>>> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=lin >>>> k_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> >>>> >>>> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. >>> http://www.avg.com >>> >>> >> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
We're on a 17kW Tx/50kW ERP station. I do see some CRC/FCS errors once in a while, but mostly no problems. And some other lower power stations. Under 100W at ~100MHz should be zero issues. There's something else going on. I'd say check grounding, make sure everyone including utility are bonded. On 1/23/2018 1:55 PM, Jay Weekley wrote: Gotcha. ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: The coil turns should be all within one inch of each other. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:43 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Sorry for the dumb question. What should be 1 inch in length? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Well, lets say you want the coil to present 10,000 ohms of series inductive reactance. xl=2 pi f l xl/100e6 * 2* pi = l = 16 microhenrys L = R*R*T*T/(9R + 10 L) 8 turns on a 6 inch diameter with a length of 1 inch ought to do it. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:26 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Chuck, how tight does the coil need to be? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too if you have enough slack. Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to negotiate at 10 meg? thanks the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
Gotcha. ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: The coil turns should be all within one inch of each other. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:43 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Sorry for the dumb question. What should be 1 inch in length? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Well, lets say you want the coil to present 10,000 ohms of series inductive reactance. xl=2 pi f l xl/100e6 * 2* pi = l = 16 microhenrys L = R*R*T*T/(9R + 10 L) 8 turns on a 6 inch diameter with a length of 1 inch ought to do it. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:26 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Chuck, how tight does the coil need to be? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too if you have enough slack. Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to negotiate at 10 meg? thanks the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
The coil turns should be all within one inch of each other. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:43 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Sorry for the dumb question. What should be 1 inch in length? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Well, lets say you want the coil to present 10,000 ohms of series inductive reactance. xl=2 pi f l xl/100e6 * 2* pi = l = 16 microhenrys L = R*R*T*T/(9R + 10 L) 8 turns on a 6 inch diameter with a length of 1 inch ought to do it. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:26 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Chuck, how tight does the coil need to be? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too if you have enough slack. Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to negotiate at 10 meg? thanks the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
Sorry for the dumb question. What should be 1 inch in length? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Well, lets say you want the coil to present 10,000 ohms of series inductive reactance. xl=2 pi f l xl/100e6 * 2* pi = l = 16 microhenrys L = R*R*T*T/(9R + 10 L) 8 turns on a 6 inch diameter with a length of 1 inch ought to do it. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:26 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Chuck, how tight does the coil need to be? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too if you have enough slack. Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to negotiate at 10 meg? thanks the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
whoa. i just have flashbacks of high school math horror. - Original Message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 1:33 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Well, lets say you want the coil to present 10,000 ohms of series inductive reactance. xl=2 pi f l xl/100e6 * 2* pi = l = 16 microhenrys L = R*R*T*T/(9R + 10 L) 8 turns on a 6 inch diameter with a length of 1 inch ought to do it. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:26 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Chuck, how tight does the coil need to be? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: > Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 cables have > about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too if you have enough > slack. > Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus on > anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. > *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller > *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station > we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been > causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. > i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on > the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing > us to negotiate at 10 meg? > thanks > the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts > > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> > Virus-free. www.avg.com > <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> > > <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
Well, lets say you want the coil to present 10,000 ohms of series inductive reactance. xl=2 pi f l xl/100e6 * 2* pi = l = 16 microhenrys L = R*R*T*T/(9R + 10 L) 8 turns on a 6 inch diameter with a length of 1 inch ought to do it. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:26 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Chuck, how tight does the coil need to be? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too if you have enough slack. Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to negotiate at 10 meg? thanks the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
Chuck, how tight does the coil need to be? ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too if you have enough slack. Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller *Sent:* Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to negotiate at 10 meg? thanks the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
I know it is outdoor shielded , but cat5e. We've been at this site about three years (ok, maybe six). They occasionally move more data than 10 meg and we get alerts gets are congested. I will see if we can add the loops. Where on the cable should the ferrite beads go? - Original Message - From: ch...@wbmfg.com To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too if you have enough slack. Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to negotiate at 10 meg? thanks the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
Before the plug on the cable ends. You can also make all CAT5 cables have about 5 turns of cable as a choke coil at each end too if you have enough slack. Shielded cable will help too. No need to ground it. I would focus on anything near the transmitter and FM transmitting system. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2018 12:07 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: [AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to negotiate at 10 meg? thanks the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts
[AFMUG] ferrite beads / radio station
we are collocated with a radio station in another town that has been causing our ethernet speed to drop to 10 meg. i know we've discussed ferrite beads - - how should they be replaced on the cable to try to eliminate the noise causing us to negotiate at 10 meg? thanks the station is a low power fm - under 100 watts
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads
I would put one as close as you can get it to the radio. -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 12:55 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads The guy currently on the tower wants to know if he should put one at the top near the radio. Good/bad idea? Doesn't matter? Chuck McCown wrote: If you are having problems with FM broadcast, yes these look like the right ones. I would start with one per cable. *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net> *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2016 3:04 PM *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> ; memb...@wispa.org <mailto:memb...@wispa.org> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads Hoping to resolve some issues with radios only linking up at 10 meg or 100 meg (on a gig radio) we have at least three radios doing this on two different towers. should these work? how to install? Just install 2-3 per cable? Maybe one on each side of cable? https://www.arrow.com/en/products/0446164181/fair-rite-products?gclid=CJak3dapnM8CFZQ7gQod02oC2w
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads
The guy currently on the tower wants to know if he should put one at the top near the radio. Good/bad idea? Doesn't matter? Chuck McCown wrote: If you are having problems with FM broadcast, yes these look like the right ones. I would start with one per cable. *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller <mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net> *Sent:* Monday, September 19, 2016 3:04 PM *To:* af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> ; memb...@wispa.org <mailto:memb...@wispa.org> *Subject:* [AFMUG] ferrite beads Hoping to resolve some issues with radios only linking up at 10 meg or 100 meg (on a gig radio) we have at least three radios doing this on two different towers. should these work? how to install? Just install 2-3 per cable? Maybe one on each side of cable? https://www.arrow.com/en/products/0446164181/fair-rite-products?gclid=CJak3dapnM8CFZQ7gQod02oC2w
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads
Yes all three are related to FM radio stations - Original Message - From: Chuck McCown To: af@afmug.com Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 4:09 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads If you are having problems with FM broadcast, yes these look like the right ones. I would start with one per cable. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 3:04 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG] ferrite beads Hoping to resolve some issues with radios only linking up at 10 meg or 100 meg (on a gig radio) we have at least three radios doing this on two different towers. should these work? how to install? Just install 2-3 per cable? Maybe one on each side of cable? https://www.arrow.com/en/products/0446164181/fair-rite-products?gclid=CJak3dapnM8CFZQ7gQod02oC2w
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads
You get more impedance by looping through the core than you do by clipping more of them on. I don't have the model number handy, but fair-rite makes a big one centered around 100mhz where the center is big enough to loop an outdoor cable through it 10 times. I don't remember the formula exactly, but I think the impedance is squared every time you loop through the core. I seem to remember figuring out that you could get over a million ohms of impedance on FM frequencies with the big one and 10 loops. -- Original Message -- From: "CBB - Jay Fuller" <par...@cyberbroadband.net> To: af@afmug.com; memb...@wispa.org Sent: 9/19/2016 5:04:00 PM Subject: [AFMUG] ferrite beads Hoping to resolve some issues with radios only linking up at 10 meg or 100 meg (on a gig radio) we have at least three radios doing this on two different towers. should these work? how to install? Just install 2-3 per cable? Maybe one on each side of cable? https://www.arrow.com/en/products/0446164181/fair-rite-products?gclid=CJak3dapnM8CFZQ7gQod02oC2w
Re: [AFMUG] ferrite beads
If you are having problems with FM broadcast, yes these look like the right ones. I would start with one per cable. From: CBB - Jay Fuller Sent: Monday, September 19, 2016 3:04 PM To: af@afmug.com ; memb...@wispa.org Subject: [AFMUG] ferrite beads Hoping to resolve some issues with radios only linking up at 10 meg or 100 meg (on a gig radio) we have at least three radios doing this on two different towers. should these work? how to install? Just install 2-3 per cable? Maybe one on each side of cable? https://www.arrow.com/en/products/0446164181/fair-rite-products?gclid=CJak3dapnM8CFZQ7gQod02oC2w
[AFMUG] ferrite beads
Hoping to resolve some issues with radios only linking up at 10 meg or 100 meg (on a gig radio) we have at least three radios doing this on two different towers. should these work? how to install? Just install 2-3 per cable? Maybe one on each side of cable? https://www.arrow.com/en/products/0446164181/fair-rite-products?gclid=CJak3dapnM8CFZQ7gQod02oC2w
