Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Richard Loosemore
Vladimir Nesov wrote: On 10/5/07, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vladimir Nesov wrote: On 10/5/07, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mike Dougherty wrote: On 10/4/07, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All understood. Remember, though, that the original reason

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Richard Loosemore
Mike Dougherty wrote: On 10/5/07, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My stock example: planetary motion. Newton (actually Tycho Brahe, Kepler, et al) observed some global behavior in this system: the orbits are elliptical and motion follows Kepler's other laws. This corresponds to

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Richard Loosemore
Linas Vepstas wrote: On Thu, Oct 04, 2007 at 11:06:11AM -0400, Richard Loosemore wrote: In case anyone else wonders about the same question, I will explain why the Turing machine equivalence has no relevance at all. Re-read what you wrote, substituting the phrase Turing machine, for each and

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Richard Loosemore
Andrew Babian wrote: Honestly, it seems to me pretty clearly that whatever Richard's thing is with complexity being the secret sauce for intelligence and therefore everyone having it wrong is just foolishness. I've quit paying him any mind. Everyone has his own foolishness. We just wait for

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Lukasz Stafiniak
Major premise and minor premise in a syllogism are not interchangeable. Read the derivation of truth tables for abduction and induction from the semantics of NAL to learn that different ordering of premises results in different truth values. Thus while both orderings are applicable, one will

Re: [agi] Schemata

2007-10-06 Thread Mike Tintner
Josh, I have no idea how new the idea is. When Schank was talking about scripts ... From the MIT Encyclopedia of the Cognitive Sciences (p729): Schemata are the psychological constructs that are postulated to account for the molar forms of human generic knowledge. The term *frames*, as

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Pei Wang
Right. See concrete examples in http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/NARS-Examples-SingleStep.txt In induction and abduction, S--P and P--S are usually (though not always) produced in pair, though usually (though not always) with different truth values, unless the two premises have the same

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Edward W. Porter
If you are a machine reasoning from pieces of information you receive in no particular order how do you know which is the major and which is the minor premise? Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Edward W. Porter
So is the following understanding correct? If you have two statements Fred is a human Fred is an animal And assuming you know nothing more about any of the three terms in both these statements, then

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Pei Wang
The order here isn't the incoming order of the premises. From M--S(t1) and M--P(t2), where t1 and t2 are truth values, the rule produces two symmetric conclusions, and which truth function is called depends on the subject/predicate order in the conclusion. That is, S--P will use a function

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Pei Wang
On 10/6/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So is the following understanding correct? If you have two statements Fred is a human Fred is an animal And assuming you know nothing more about any of the three terms in both these statements, then each of the following would be

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Pei Wang
On 10/6/07, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 10/6/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So is the following understanding correct? If you have two statements Fred is a human Fred is an animal And assuming you know nothing more about any of the three terms in both

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Mark Waser
Linas Vepstas said: To amplify: the rules for GoL are simple. The finding what they imply are not. The rues for gravity are simple. Finding what they impl are not. And I would argue that the rules of Friendliness are simple and the finding what they imply are not. - This list is

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Edward W. Porter
Thanks. So as I understand it, whether a premise is major or minor is defined by its role of its terms relative to a given conconclusion. But the same premise could play a major role relative to once conclusion and a minor role relative to another. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String

RE: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Edward W. Porter
Great, I look forward to trying this when I get back from a brief vacation for the holiday weekend. Edward W. Porter Porter Associates 24 String Bridge S12 Exeter, NH 03833 (617) 494-1722 Fax (617) 494-1822 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Pei Wang [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [agi] Do the inference rules of categorical logic make sense?

2007-10-06 Thread Pei Wang
On 10/6/07, Edward W. Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks. So as I understand it, whether a premise is major or minor is defined by its role of its terms relative to a given conconclusion. But the same premise could play a major role relative to once conclusion and a minor role relative

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Mark Waser
Andrew Babian said: Honestly, it seems to me pretty clearly that whatever Richard's thing is with complexity being the secret sauce for intelligence and therefore everyone having it wrong is just foolishness. I've quit paying him any mind. Everyone has his own foolishness. We just wait for

Re: [agi] Religion-free technical content breaking the small hardware mindset

2007-10-06 Thread a
Edward W. Porter wrote: It's also because the average person looses 10 points in IQ between mid twenties and mid fourties and another ten points between mid fourties and sixty. (Help! I'am 59.) But this is just the average. Some people hang on to their marbles as they age better than

Re: Economic libertarianism [was Re: The first-to-market effect [WAS Re: [agi] Religion-free technical content]

2007-10-06 Thread a
Linas Vepstas wrote: My objection to economic libertarianism is its lack of discussion of self-organized criticality. A common example of self-organized criticality is a sand-pile at the critical point. Adding one grain of sand can trigger an avalanche, which can be small, or maybe

[agi] How many scientists?

2007-10-06 Thread J Storrs Hall, PhD
Does anyone know of any decent estimates of how many scientists are working in cog-sci related fields, roughly AI, psychology, and neuroscience? Josh - This list is sponsored by AGIRI: http://www.agiri.org/email To unsubscribe or change your options, please go to:

Re: Economic libertarianism [was Re: The first-to-market effect [WAS Re: [agi] Religion-free technical content]

2007-10-06 Thread BillK
On 10/6/07, a wrote: I am skeptical that economies follow the self-organized criticality behavior. There aren't any examples. Some would cite the Great Depression, but it was caused by the malinvestment created by Central Banks. e.g. The Federal Reserve System. See the Austrian Business Cycle

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Mike Dougherty
On 10/6/07, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my use of GoL in the paper I did emphasize the prediction part at first, but I then went on (immediately) to talk about the problem of finding hypotheses to test. Crucially, I ask if it is reasonable to suppose that Conway could have

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Vladimir Nesov
Richard, Any problem can be stated as search for results that satisfy given constraints. What you state here doesn't seem to contradict what I wrote before. In following paragraph you describe it: On 10/6/07, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my use of GoL in the paper I did

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Richard Loosemore
William Pearson wrote: On 05/10/2007, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William Pearson wrote: On 05/10/2007, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: We have good reason to believe, after studying systems like GoL, that even if there exists a compact theory that would let us

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Richard Loosemore
I am sorry, Mike, I have to give up. What you say is so far away from what I said in the paper that there is just no longer any point of contact. Best wishes, Richard Loosemore Mike Dougherty wrote: On 10/6/07, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In my use of GoL in the paper

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Richard Loosemore
Vladimir, I say the following without meaning to be critical. In what I wrote yesterday, I was trying to establish the first point in the sequence of points that make up the argument in my paper. What is happening, in this discussion, is that you are trying to ask me to present the entire

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread William Pearson
On 07/10/2007, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a question for you, Will. Without loss of generality, I can change my use of Game of Life to a new system called GoL(-T) which is all of the possible GoL instantiations EXCEPT the tiny subset that contain Turing Machine

Re: [agi] Conway's Game of Life and Turing machine equivalence

2007-10-06 Thread Mike Dougherty
On 10/6/07, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am sorry, Mike, I have to give up. What you say is so far away from what I said in the paper that there is just no longer any point of contact. oh. So we weren't having a discussion. You were having a lecture and I was missing the