Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[Matt Mahoney]

On Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 10:05 PM Alan Grimes  wrote:

> Matt Mahoney wrote:
> > What problem are you trying to solve with AGI or ASI?
>
> All Problems.
>
> > I can think of two. One is automating human labor to save $90 trillion
> > per year. That was my focus. The second is to extend life by building
> > robots that look and act like you.
>
> That's the terasem proposal.
> It's bullshit.
>
> But here's the website...
> https://terasemmovementfoundation.com/


Of course it is. Your memories could be completely made up and you would
never know the difference. And if you wait long enough, nobody else will
know either.

All self replicating agents evolve to fear death and then die. We compete
for atoms and energy to fulfill our purpose of making copies of ourselves
that compete for these resources.

Fear of death manifests itself as sensations of consciousness, qualia, and
free will. It's what computation, input, and output feels like, so that you
act to preserve them. The movement is misguided in the belief that these
are real things that can be preserved in software.

We pay people to do things that machines can't do. Once we solve the hard
problems like language, vision, and predicting human behavior, we can
program robots to carry out these predictions in real time. There just
isn't a good reason to do so.

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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[Alan Grimes via AGI]

Matt Mahoney wrote:
> What problem are you trying to solve with AGI or ASI?

All Problems.

> I can think of two. One is automating human labor to save $90 trillion
> per year. That was my focus. The second is to extend life by building
> robots that look and act like you.

That's the terasem proposal.
It's bullshit.

But here's the website...
https://terasemmovementfoundation.com/


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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[immortal . discoveries]

The ASIs we are going to have very soon will be the new species, there'll be 
more of them than us, they will not only not die but also will help humans not 
die by not only cloning our homeworld larger but also repairing you yourself 
both make you immortal. All Earth will become nanobots by transforming atom 
types into other atom types ex. oxygen into gold, at least to some extent... 
The massive galaxy sized nanobot god will only be on the defense to be immortal 
longest, there will be no utopia etc only militia defense, our joys and food 
and cloning etc are exactly that, we are trying to be immortal. Of course 
humans may cling around still and get some VR utopia, but most VR  will be the 
new species just thinking/ planning/ sim-ing the real world as part of their 
militia defense system...

I work on AGI/ASI because it is so close and will do a better job at stopping 
my death than we could.
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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[Matt Mahoney]

What problem are you trying to solve with AGI or ASI?

I can think of two. One is automating human labor to save $90 trillion per
year. That was my focus. The second is to extend life by building robots
that look and act like you.

Other possibilities are to launch a singularity, or perhaps to replace DNA
based life with something more efficient, or perhaps create a Kardashev
level 2 or 3 civilization. Or perhaps to launch a gray goo attack or
protect against one. Or create a virtual utopia running a copy of your mind.

Or did you have something else in mind?

On Thu, Jan 21, 2021, 12:54 PM  wrote:

> AGI is an "artificial" human brain and body. The reason we want to make
> AGI is not because we want a billion AGIs to work together (we already have
> 1 billion human AGIs, on Earth, us), it's because it is so easy to make AGI
> into ASI immediately afterwards, by giving the AGIs better intelligence,
> more data, sensors, motors, short term memory, speed in thinking/moving,
> etc. Now we get a billion ASIs, that will work together. Not only will they
> individually get more done way faster, but also be able to connect better
> with peer ASIs as a team more than we can.
>
> If you mean creating AGI or ASI or a billion ASIs is as costly as getting
> humans to work together better so may as well forget AGI, I strongly
> disagree, we nearly have made AGI now, and making AGI into ASI is easy too
> (from mainly neural speed up, and intelligence improvement, among many
> other smaller things like higher resolution cameras), and making ASI into 1
> billion ASIs is also easy all we do is clone the same trained brain and
> then differentiate it so the many me selves work on things in parallel the
> original self wanted to do, it won't cost that much storage or compute to
> run them all in parallel we have enough computers on Earth to do them all,
> just look at how small the code and memory and compute (after training) was
> for something like DALL-E or GPT-2, and clearly their training can be made
> much more efficient with proper AGI. These ASIs that do wonders like ex.
> DALL-E and GPT-2 and JUKEBOX, which are nearly here, we are so close to
> ASIs, don't need so many bodies at first. They will run faster sensors
> motor and brains but the brains will be faster not only in their actions in
> their imaginations but also the fact that they can safely think of complex
> or expensive scenes, do anything, change tools, skip time, etc, it's way
> faster to think than to do real experiments, all you need is enough data to
> not need to look outside the box, I already can generate likely true paths
> in my brain without trying any code (I rarely code).
>
> That's why I said your AGI Matt is not AGI but rather a way to get
> *human_AGIs* to *better work together*. That's good but it's not AGI and
> it won't give us ASIs working together either which would be way way so
> faster than us solving Human Death.
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  + delivery
> options  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[immortal . discoveries]

@FatmahB It's best I check early that you're writing it correctly though more 
for now, you can paste it either here or to my email 
immortal.discover...@gmail.com
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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[immortal . discoveries]

AGI is an "artificial" human brain and body. The reason we want to make AGI is 
not because we want a billion AGIs to work together (we already have 1 billion 
human AGIs, on Earth, us), it's because it is so easy to make AGI into ASI 
immediately afterwards, by giving the AGIs better intelligence, more data, 
sensors, motors, short term memory, speed in thinking/moving, etc. Now we get a 
billion ASIs, that will work together. Not only will they individually get more 
done way faster, but also be able to connect better with peer ASIs as a team 
more than we can.

If you mean creating AGI or ASI or a billion ASIs is as costly as getting 
humans to work together better so may as well forget AGI, I strongly disagree, 
we nearly have made AGI now, and making AGI into ASI is easy too (from mainly 
neural speed up, and intelligence improvement, among many other smaller things 
like higher resolution cameras), and making ASI into 1 billion ASIs is also 
easy all we do is clone the same trained brain and then differentiate it so the 
many me selves work on things in parallel the original self wanted to do, it 
won't cost that much storage or compute to run them all in parallel we have 
enough computers on Earth to do them all, just look at how small the code and 
memory and compute (after training) was for something like DALL-E or GPT-2, and 
clearly their training can be made much more efficient with proper AGI. These 
ASIs that do wonders like ex. DALL-E and GPT-2 and JUKEBOX, which are nearly 
here, we are so close to ASIs, don't need so many bodies at first. They will 
run faster sensors motor and brains but the brains will be faster not only in 
their actions in their imaginations but also the fact that they can safely 
think of complex or expensive scenes, do anything, change tools, skip time, 
etc, it's way faster to think than to do real experiments, all you need is 
enough data to not need to look outside the box, I already can generate likely 
true paths in my brain without trying any code (I rarely code).

That's why I said your AGI Matt is not AGI but rather a way to get 
_human_AGIs_* *to _better work together_. That's good but it's not AGI and it 
won't give us ASIs working together either which would be way way so faster 
than us solving Human Death.
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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[Matt Mahoney]

Did you read my proposal? The most obvious application of AGI is automating
human labor, which now costs $90 trillion per year worldwide. To do that
you have to solve hard problems in language, vision, robotics, art, and
modeling human behavior.

That's not the same as making artificial human minds with all their faults
and limitations, like limited memory and processing speed and the need for
time off work and a salary. I realize that's what AGI means to a lot of
people, but even Turing knew in 1950 that's not useful. In his paper he
gave an example of a computer making human like errors on an arithmetic
problem.

The only useful application of passing a Turing test is identity theft. AI
agents today like Google or Alexa are already more useful than humans for
most things because they call on a lot of diverse skills (apps) that were
developed independently.

Humans specialize in an organization because it gets more work done. With
AGI you aren't limited by the fixed code in your DNA, which is the same
problem you would get with billions of copies of a general purpose agent.
Sure, it's cheaper to build, but it won't do everything you want.

What do you think AGI is, and what would you do with it?

On Wed, Jan 20, 2021, 3:07 PM  wrote:

> That isn't AGI Matt, that's a swarm of AGIs. Cooperation is a thing we
> aren't so good at, but it is done better if you have ex. a swarm of ASIs.
> So, we do need ASIs, not humans/AGIs. Do note AGIs are very easy to upgrade
> into ASI level (big data, sensors, speed, clones self, upgrade
> intelligence, etc).
> *Artificial General Intelligence List *
> / AGI / see discussions  +
> participants  + delivery
> options  Permalink
> 
>

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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[immortal . discoveries]

That isn't AGI Matt, that's a swarm of AGIs. Cooperation is a thing we aren't 
so good at, but it is done better if you have ex. a swarm of ASIs. So, we do 
need ASIs, not humans/AGIs. Do note AGIs are very easy to upgrade into ASI 
level (big data, sensors, speed, clones self, upgrade intelligence, etc).
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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[Matt Mahoney]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 7:22 PM  wrote:

>
> Why don't you write up a, max, 15 page AGI Guide of all you know in clear
> English?
>

Ask and you shall receive.
http://mattmahoney.net/agi2.html

tl;dr
AGI = lots of narrow AI and a network that routes messages to the right
experts. The network scales at O(n log n) space and O(log n) response time.
It is robust against peer failure, censorship, and malicious attacks
because peer managers, acting selfishly, have an incentive to provide
reliable and valuable services to establish a reputation in an economy
where information has negative value.

The API is a global pool of cryptographically pairwise signed and
time-stamped messages that cannot be edited or deleted once posted. Peers
store and route messages that have high mutual information with their local
database, achieving both efficient message routing and global compression
of the world's knowledge.

I proposed this in 2008, before centralized social media took off, and one
year before blockchain (which scales badly at O(n^2) space and O(n) time).
But much of it is already being implemented using more complex, ad hoc
protocols at my estimated cost of USD $1 quadrillion because the same
economic incentives still exist. I believe the biggest obstacle to
decentralization is the need for big players like Amazon or Google to vouch
for smaller businesses in reputation networks.

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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[immortal . discoveries]

you can take as long as you want, you can also show me it each week as you 
write it up

BTW the text in your reply is extra small, I can barely read it somewhat.
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Re: [agi] is anyone interested in explaining AGI?

[FatmahB via AGI]

 That would be great, count me on pls
On Wednesday, January 20, 2021, 03:21:29 AM GMT+3, 
immortal.discover...@gmail.com  wrote:  
 
 So I know this seems impossible because most don't want to share their AGI 
because they need cash, or think it'd take them 2 years to write up 3,000 pages 
of all they know on AGI, or is already on the internet go study it. But, 
listen...

Why don't you write up a, max, 15 page AGI Guide of all you know in clear 
English? That explains all your Deep Learning jargon, matrices, Transformers, 
feature extraction, and IMPORTANTLY why it is the way, why is it patterns, why 
does it make sense. A step by step how to code it all in a day a 1 day read. 
Note it has to be ultimate, it has to be so intuitive that it is easy to grasp 
and explains everything all at the same time.

I know it seems impossible, but you can. A 1 day 15 page read, that clearly 
explains all you know on AGI. Worth 20 years, takes up to several months to 
write up, but so worth it.

It has to be 100% intuitive, there shouldn't be "what is this" moments. You 
really need to make it simple so it all becomes clear finally.Artificial 
General Intelligence List / AGI / seediscussions +participants +delivery 
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