Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-28 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Tue, 28 Nov 2017, Alex Smith wrote: > On Tue, 2017-11-28 at 09:09 -0800, Corona wrote: > > I was about to call that myself. How much is bribery of the Arbitor > > or a judge (or of other persons with official duties) frowned upon? > > Bribing a judge (except to put extra detail into a

DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-28 Thread Alex Smith
On Tue, 2017-11-28 at 09:09 -0800, Corona wrote: > I was about to call that myself. How much is bribery of the Arbitor > or a judge (or of other persons with official duties) frowned upon? Bribing a judge (except to put extra detail into a judgement, without controlling the result) is looked down

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread ATMunn
I agree. Although I don't really think of myself as a *new* player anymore, I've only been here for a bit over 2 months. I really haven't read many old CFJs, and it would probably be good for me to do that. On 11/26/2017 8:01 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus wrote: I mean independently.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017, Kerim Aydin wrote: > On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, Alexis Hunt wrote: > > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 19:31 Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > > > My memory is that there are a few out there, that amount to "if it's > > > within a reasonable effort for the typical Agoran

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
I mean independently. Sort of a: If you are new, here are the most important CFJs to read. On 11/26/2017 07:59 PM, Alexis Hunt wrote: > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 19:57 Publius Scribonius Scholasticus < > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Maybe we should compile a list of the best

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Alexis Hunt
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 19:57 Publius Scribonius Scholasticus < p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com> wrote: > Maybe we should compile a list of the best judgements to read. The FLR annotations are supposed to be that, but they've been ferociously unmaintained.

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
Maybe we should compile a list of the best judgements to read. On 11/26/2017 07:17 PM, VJ Rada wrote: > eh, they help. only as precedent to apply to future cfjs. but there > are big ones that matter (remember when everyone was messing around in > other languages?) > > On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, Alexis Hunt wrote: > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 19:31 Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > My memory is that there are a few out there, that amount to "if it's > > within a reasonable effort for the typical Agoran to resolve a conditional > > with information

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Alexis Hunt
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 19:31 Kerim Aydin wrote: > My memory is that there are a few out there, that amount to "if it's > within a reasonable effort for the typical Agoran to resolve a conditional > with information available at the time of the attempt, it works." I'll >

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Kerim Aydin
On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, Alexis Hunt wrote: > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 19:22 Kerim Aydin wrote: > > > Well, if you read only the Rules, you'd wonder why everyone keeps doing > > things with if/then clauses, because strictly speaking there's nothing > > that allows them, and

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Alexis Hunt
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 19:22 Kerim Aydin wrote: > Well, if you read only the Rules, you'd wonder why everyone keeps doing > things with if/then clauses, because strictly speaking there's nothing > that allows them, and the Fora clause on "announcement" pretty much >

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Kerim Aydin
Well, if you read only the Rules, you'd wonder why everyone keeps doing things with if/then clauses, because strictly speaking there's nothing that allows them, and the Fora clause on "announcement" pretty much implies that conditionals don't work, at all (except for voting), because that rule

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Kerim Aydin
Watching the actions of the past week, including extensive use of conditionals, e.g.: https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2017-November/037396.html makes me feel like we've suddenly allowed beyond-a-reasonable-effort hard-to-interpret conditionals that we

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Corona
Actually, I'll gladly accept failure, since you sent your bidding message after me, and I would have wasted favors had this worked. (Also, are historical CFJs a required read for playing Agora now?) On 11/26/17, Alexis Hunt wrote: > I'm generally philosophically opposed to

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Alexis Hunt
I'm generally philosophically opposed to arbitrarily complex actions taken "by announcement". CFJ 1774 is, I think, the strongest precedent we have here. The CFJ is clear that you can't, by default, take an action by announcement ambiguously; the use of shorthands (and, by extension,

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Corona
I thought about including a simple backup clause, but I ran out of time. On 11/26/17, Alexis Hunt wrote: > On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 18:58 Corona wrote: > >> The following 5 paragraphs apply to all actions taken in this message, >> other text to the

DIS: Re: BUS: Bid

2017-11-26 Thread Alexis Hunt
On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 18:58 Corona wrote: > The following 5 paragraphs apply to all actions taken in this message, > other text to the contrary notwithstanding: > I'm willing to argue that most of this message fails due to being too complicated to resolve, but I'm