Re: DIS: Re: BUS: With apologies to Trigon
Telnaior has sent eir Energy value now, so fire away with the melons. -twg ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, February 4, 2019 1:40 AM, Reuben Staley wrote: > PF > > On 2/3/19 6:40 PM, Reuben Staley wrote: > > > Getting roped into doing a space battle I didn't even want to do in the > > first place and then getting a rule violation for it. Figures. > > I wish to spend an amount of energy equal to the number of times the > > word "cantaloupe" appears in the following hashed string: > > c60be28bd4658321826d9eae4cb14222 > > On 2/3/19 6:28 PM, Madeline wrote: > > > > > I haven't sent mine yet, that didn't count. > > > On 2019-02-04 12:29, Reuben Staley wrote: > > > > > > > I wish to spend 0 energy on this space battle > > > > On 2/3/19 6:01 PM, Telnaior wrote: > > > > > > > > > You're really the only good target that I wouldn't have to go > > > > > halfway across the map to reach :( > > > > > I spend one coin to repair the Armour of my Spaceship by 1. > > > > > I initiate a Space Battle between my Spaceship and Trigon's > > > > > Spaceship, specifying twg as the resolver. > > -- > > Trigon
DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
I assume G. was hinting to the fact that these are fungible assets yet
distinguishable. Not that the rules define what "fungible" means,
anymore.
Which might make them hard to track, so just as well that there's no
recordkeepor defined.
No idea how you intend to get any advantage out of this, though.
Greetings,
Ørjan.
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
Niiice, Telnaior. c: It wasn't, in fact, what I was going for. I guess
contracts are just horribly broken, huh.
I consent to be bound by the terms of the following document, with the
intent for it to become a contract provided G. also so agrees. (Slightly
modified from the previous version to improve G.'s security.)
{
This is a contract between twg and G. Other persons CANNOT become parties.
twg CAN modify this contract by announcement, with the exception that
twg CANNOT (and SHALL NOT attempt to) modify this contract such that it
imposes any obligation on G. or otherwise significantly harms eir
standing in the game, or such that this paragraph is removed, altered or
otherwise rendered ineffective.
Beads are a currency defined by this contract. Ownership of beads is
restricted to any entity. twg CAN, by announcement, create a bead in the
possession of any entity.
Each bead has a colour, which is one of the following: red, green, blue,
cyan, magenta, yellow or white. The colour of a bead is set when it is
created and cannot thereafter be changed. An attempt to create a bead is
INEFFECTIVE if the colour of the bead is not specified.
}
*whistles innocently*
(I'm also quite happy to just explain the scam, incidentally, and will
on request from G. But it seems more fun to give a relatively-harmless
live demonstration.)
-twg
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
It's Complicated: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1362
(or if not complicated, it's at least wordy).
On 2/4/2019 7:52 AM, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
I assume G. was hinting to the fact that these are fungible assets yet
distinguishable. Not that the rules define what "fungible" means, anymore.
Which might make them hard to track, so just as well that there's no
recordkeepor defined.
No idea how you intend to get any advantage out of this, though.
Greetings,
Ørjan.
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
Niiice, Telnaior. c: It wasn't, in fact, what I was going for. I guess
contracts are just horribly broken, huh.
I consent to be bound by the terms of the following document, with the
intent for it to become a contract provided G. also so agrees. (Slightly
modified from the previous version to improve G.'s security.)
{
This is a contract between twg and G. Other persons CANNOT become parties.
twg CAN modify this contract by announcement, with the exception that twg
CANNOT (and SHALL NOT attempt to) modify this contract such that it
imposes any obligation on G. or otherwise significantly harms eir standing
in the game, or such that this paragraph is removed, altered or otherwise
rendered ineffective.
Beads are a currency defined by this contract. Ownership of beads is
restricted to any entity. twg CAN, by announcement, create a bead in the
possession of any entity.
Each bead has a colour, which is one of the following: red, green, blue,
cyan, magenta, yellow or white. The colour of a bead is set when it is
created and cannot thereafter be changed. An attempt to create a bead is
INEFFECTIVE if the colour of the bead is not specified.
}
*whistles innocently*
(I'm also quite happy to just explain the scam, incidentally, and will on
request from G. But it seems more fun to give a relatively-harmless live
demonstration.)
-twg
DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
Welcome Baron! I'm quite curious, how did you find Agora? On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 9:45 PM Reuben Staley wrote: > Welcome to Agora! I cause Baron Von Vaderham to receive a welcome package. > > -- > Trigon > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019, 13:10 David Seeber > > I register as a player. > > > > Baron Von Vaderham > > >
DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
Please do tell at some point—that sounds great
Gaelan
> On Feb 4, 2019, at 2:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>
> Ta.
>
> I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of
> Nomic (A.N.).
>
> (Incidentally, this scam method could also be used for a power-3
> dictatorship, but if I did that, it would end up deregistering the Promotor,
> the Arbitor, the ADoP and at least one zombie as a side-effect. Following
> advice from G., I've decided to perform this watered-down version - which
> does not cause adverse effects to any player - instead.)
>
> -twg
>
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>> On Monday, February 4, 2019 11:05 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree to the below contract. -G.
>>
>> ("you can't spell fungible without having fun")
>>
>>> On 2/4/2019 1:00 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>>>
>>> Niiice, Telnaior. c: It wasn't, in fact, what I was going for. I guess
>>> contracts are just horribly broken, huh.
>>> I consent to be bound by the terms of the following document, with the
>>> intent for it to become a contract provided G. also so agrees. (Slightly
>>> modified from the previous version to improve G.'s security.)
>>> {
>>> This is a contract between twg and G. Other persons CANNOT become parties.
>>> twg CAN modify this contract by announcement, with the exception that twg
>>> CANNOT (and SHALL NOT attempt to) modify this contract such that it imposes
>>> any obligation on G. or otherwise significantly harms eir standing in the
>>> game, or such that this paragraph is removed, altered or otherwise rendered
>>> ineffective.
>>> Beads are a currency defined by this contract. Ownership of beads is
>>> restricted to any entity. twg CAN, by announcement, create a bead in the
>>> possession of any entity.
>>> Each bead has a colour, which is one of the following: red, green, blue,
>>> cyan, magenta, yellow or white. The colour of a bead is set when it is
>>> created and cannot thereafter be changed. An attempt to create a bead is
>>> INEFFECTIVE if the colour of the bead is not specified.
>>> }
>>> whistles innocently
>>> (I'm also quite happy to just explain the scam, incidentally, and will on
>>> request from G. But it seems more fun to give a relatively-harmless live
>>> demonstration.)
>>> -twg
>
>
DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
On 2/4/2019 2:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > Ta. > > I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of > Nomic (A.N.). Ok, a contract and a thesis intent, very intrigued... I'm fighting between my "contest-running" hat to be a patsy and support everything vs. my herald's desire to object to any "unearned" degrees, so I'm gonna just stay neutral over here for now...
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 14:39 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: > On 2/4/2019 2:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > > Ta. > > > > I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of > > Nomic (A.N.). > > Ok, a contract and a thesis intent, very intrigued... > > I'm fighting between my "contest-running" hat to be a patsy and support > everything vs. my herald's desire to object to any "unearned" degrees, > so I'm gonna just stay neutral over here for now... Arguably, a clear enough description of a scam that was capable of forcing through theses, and also of gaining a power-3 dictatorship but with some oddly specific side effects, would be interesting enough to count as a thesis in its own right (unless the loophole is particularly simple or stupid). For what it's worth, the claimed powers of the scam make me suspect it somehow interferes with dependent actions (but in that case, why not go for Win by Apathy?). I've already read through part of the Ruleset for the Week and noticed at least one rather awkward problem in the dependent action rules, but as far as I can tell it wouldn't have the effect described (and most of the resulting brokenness is likely to have ratified away by now; luckily, the specific problem is unlikely to affect Ratification Without Objection). -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually are, I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the biggest nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not? I'm not sure what I'll actually get up to here, but definitely a bit of Spaaace at least :D -Original Message- From: agora-discussion On Behalf Of Cuddle Beam Sent: 04 February 2019 20:52 To: Agora Nomic discussions (DF) Subject: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration Welcome Baron! I'm quite curious, how did you find Agora? On Mon, Feb 4, 2019 at 9:45 PM Reuben Staley wrote: > Welcome to Agora! I cause Baron Von Vaderham to receive a welcome package. > > -- > Trigon > > On Mon, Feb 4, 2019, 13:10 David Seeber > > I register as a player. > > > > Baron Von Vaderham > > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote: > Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game > nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and > invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually are, > I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the biggest > nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not? Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- lived rather than vice versa.) -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
I imagine it’s a cycle. Gaelan > On Feb 4, 2019, at 3:09 PM, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote: > > > Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- > lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones > referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, > i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- > lived rather than vice versa.) > > -- > ais523 smime.p7s Description: S/MIME cryptographic signature
RE: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
That sounds like the beginning of a thesis. But anyway. In my opinion it’s Wikipedia mentioning them because they are still around. The easiest thing to do would be a. check the modification records from Wikipedia (I assume that's possible because it's all meant to be transparent, right?) and see when they were first mentioned b. Check when Wikipedia itself was founded. It's possible that Agora and BlogNomic are older than Wikipedia (anybody?) -Original Message- From: agora-discussion On Behalf Of ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk Sent: 04 February 2019 23:09 To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote: > Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game > nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and > invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually are, I > found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the biggest > nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not? Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- lived rather than vice versa.) -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:09 +, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote: > On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote: > > Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game > > nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and > > invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually > > are, > > I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the > > biggest > > nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not? > > Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- > lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones > referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, > i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- > lived rather than vice versa.) Further theory after rereading the Wikipedia article: most nomics last a sufficiently short time that they're dead before they're mentioned, so only long-time active nomics get a chance at being linked in a non- defunct state. (There are plenty of nomics mentioned but they're nearly all dead, so I didn't mentally count them.) -- ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
I love that the talk page on that Wikipedia article has an argument about how to define a nomic. -twg ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, February 4, 2019 11:16 PM, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote: > On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:09 +, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk wrote: > > > On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote: > > > > > Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game > > > nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and > > > invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually > > > are, > > > I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the > > > biggest > > > nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not? > > > > Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- > > lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones > > referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, > > i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- > > lived rather than vice versa.) > > Further theory after rereading the Wikipedia article: most nomics last > a sufficiently short time that they're dead before they're mentioned, > so only long-time active nomics get a chance at being linked in a non- > defunct state. (There are plenty of nomics mentioned but they're nearly > all dead, so I didn't mentally count them.) > > -- > > ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
Well, in accordance with Murphy's Law, I predict I've overlooked something
stupidly obvious and it won't work at all, but I'm glad everyone's finding it
interesting. Nothing more to see here until the 4-day limit expires, so please
return to your regularly scheduled interstellar warfare and tune in again at
the weekend.
> For what it's worth, the claimed powers of the scam make me suspect it
> somehow interferes with dependent actions (but in that case, why not go
> for Win by Apathy?).
It's not 100% guaranteed to work, but why not - I intend, without objection, to
Declare Apathy, specifying the set of players that is the union of
(a) {twg},
(b) if ais523 is a player at the time this action is performed, then {ais523},
otherwise the empty set, and
(c) the set of people who, at the time this action is performed, are players
and have privately sent me a broadly correct explanation of the scam.
> Arguably, a clear enough description of a scam that was capable of
> forcing through theses, and also of gaining a power-3 dictatorship but
> with some oddly specific side effects, would be interesting enough to
> count as a thesis in its own right (unless the loophole is particularly
> simple or stupid).
Yes, G. privately suggested just now that I post a write-up later and
retroactively label it my A.N. thesis, but I do want to at least attempt the
shortcut first. (But who knows, maybe it _is_ considered "simple" by historical
standards, even if it seems pretty complicated to me. Never been around for a
dictatorship before.)
And now I'm going to shut up before I give too much away.
-twg
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, February 4, 2019 10:49 PM, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 14:39 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
> > On 2/4/2019 2:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> >
> > > Ta.
> > > I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of
> > > Nomic (A.N.).
> >
> > Ok, a contract and a thesis intent, very intrigued...
> > I'm fighting between my "contest-running" hat to be a patsy and support
> > everything vs. my herald's desire to object to any "unearned" degrees,
> > so I'm gonna just stay neutral over here for now...
>
>
> For what it's worth, the claimed powers of the scam make me suspect it
> somehow interferes with dependent actions (but in that case, why not go
> for Win by Apathy?). I've already read through part of the Ruleset for
> the Week and noticed at least one rather awkward problem in the
> dependent action rules, but as far as I can tell it wouldn't have the
> effect described (and most of the resulting brokenness is likely to
> have ratified away by now; luckily, the specific problem is unlikely to
> affect Ratification Without Objection).
>
> --
>
> ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
I've never looked up Wikipedia on Wikipedia, but it started 2001 (according to Wikipedia). Agora was 1993 (Rule 1727), so definitely older. On 2/4/2019 3:12 PM, David Seeber wrote: That sounds like the beginning of a thesis. But anyway. In my opinion it’s Wikipedia mentioning them because they are still around. The easiest thing to do would be a. check the modification records from Wikipedia (I assume that's possible because it's all meant to be transparent, right?) and see when they were first mentioned b. Check when Wikipedia itself was founded. It's possible that Agora and BlogNomic are older than Wikipedia (anybody?) -Original Message- From: agora-discussion On Behalf Of ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk Sent: 04 February 2019 23:09 To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote: Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually are, I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the biggest nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not? Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- lived rather than vice versa.) -- ais523
RE: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration
It is possible that Wikipedia is inaccurate. -Original Message- From: agora-discussion On Behalf Of Kerim Aydin Sent: 04 February 2019 23:22 To: Agora Nomic discussions (DF) Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration I've never looked up Wikipedia on Wikipedia, but it started 2001 (according to Wikipedia). Agora was 1993 (Rule 1727), so definitely older. On 2/4/2019 3:12 PM, David Seeber wrote: > That sounds like the beginning of a thesis. But anyway. > > In my opinion it’s Wikipedia mentioning them because they are still around. > The easiest thing to do would be > a. check the modification records from Wikipedia (I assume that's > possible because it's all meant to be transparent, right?) and see when they > were first mentioned > b. Check when Wikipedia itself was founded. It's possible that Agora > and BlogNomic are older than Wikipedia (anybody?) > > -Original Message- > From: agora-discussion On > Behalf Of ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk > Sent: 04 February 2019 23:09 > To: agora-discussion@agoranomic.org > Subject: Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Registration > > On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 23:05 +, David Seeber wrote: >> Actually it was a good friend of mine who is a sort of board game >> nerd. He has a little nomic which he plays with a few friends and >> invited me to join in. Whilst checking out what nomics actually are, >> I found the Wikipedia page, which talks about Agora being the biggest >> nomic still running. And I thought, Hey... Why not? > > Theory: the fact that Agora and BlogNomic are by far the longest- > lasting nomics is connected to the fact that they're the only ones > referenced from Wikipedia. (That said, the causality may be reversed, > i.e. they may have been referenced from Wikipedia due to being long- > lived rather than vice versa.) > > -- > ais523 >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
On Monday, February 4, 2019 11:22 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > It's not 100% guaranteed to work, Actually, scratch that bit, it works fine (again, assuming the scam itself works in the first place). -twg
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: With apologies to Trigon
The quoted hashed string is: Trigon watched as his hit landed. Surprisingly, it didn't seem to do much damage. He realized that he had lost. But how? Telnaior hailed his ship once again. "I apologize for this, but you're the best target I have. Picking on anyone else would be far too much effort." And with that, Trigon hatched a plan to end this cycle that would clearly continue if he didn't stop it. On 2/4/19 2:08 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: Telnaior has sent eir Energy value now, so fire away with the melons. -twg ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On Monday, February 4, 2019 1:40 AM, Reuben Staley wrote: PF On 2/3/19 6:40 PM, Reuben Staley wrote: Getting roped into doing a space battle I didn't even want to do in the first place and then getting a rule violation for it. Figures. I wish to spend an amount of energy equal to the number of times the word "cantaloupe" appears in the following hashed string: c60be28bd4658321826d9eae4cb14222 On 2/3/19 6:28 PM, Madeline wrote: I haven't sent mine yet, that didn't count. On 2019-02-04 12:29, Reuben Staley wrote: I wish to spend 0 energy on this space battle On 2/3/19 6:01 PM, Telnaior wrote: You're really the only good target that I wouldn't have to go halfway across the map to reach :( I spend one coin to repair the Armour of my Spaceship by 1. I initiate a Space Battle between my Spaceship and Trigon's Spaceship, specifying twg as the resolver. -- Trigon -- Trigon
