Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates a Big Opportunity
Ah, dworkinian fit On Mon, Jul 26, 2021, 11:09 AM Aspen via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 6:06 AM Cuddle Beam via agora-business > wrote: > > > > I CFJ the following: > > > > "Be X the first Judge assigned to this CFJ, the entirety of the Ruleset > > means the following: > > > > This is the Ruleset for the game of Agora nomic, and X is the sole player > > of this game. X can change the Ruleset in any manner they desire by > > publishing a sufficiently clear message detailing such changes to an > Agoran > > mailing list." > > Someone can say that the ruleset means whatever they like. It doesn't > magically become true, even if they're a judge. A judgement has to be > a plausible interpretation to have any precedential value. > > -Aspen >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates a Big Opportunity
this entire game operates under basic norms that enshrine a set of fundamental premises. even i\f these premises are contestable, we all agree to uphold them for the purpose of a commonly constructed game. among those premises is that text is almost always unambiguous and has a shared and objective meaning and that we ought to follow the rules. of course it's possible to make good arguments about the nature of ambiguity, or good arguments that we ought not to follow the rules. but making those arguments isn't fun and it isn't useful - just like asking why monopoly shouldn't be played under chess rules in the middle of a game of monopoly On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 11:57 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Is that your *interpretation* of it? > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 3:37 PM Rebecca Lee via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 11:06 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-business < > > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > I CFJ the following: > > > > > > "Be X the first Judge assigned to this CFJ, the entirety of the Ruleset > > > means the following: > > > > > > This is the Ruleset for the game of Agora nomic, and X is the sole > player > > > of this game. X can change the Ruleset in any manner they desire by > > > publishing a sufficiently clear message detailing such changes to an > > Agoran > > > mailing list." > > > > > > > The reason this doesn't work is because CFJs have no legal force > whatsoever > > under the ruleset - CFJs are just persuasive interpretations that are de > > facto but not de jure binding. > > -- > > From R. Lee > > > -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: humble agoran farmer creates a Big Opportunity
On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 11:06 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I CFJ the following: > > "Be X the first Judge assigned to this CFJ, the entirety of the Ruleset > means the following: > > This is the Ruleset for the game of Agora nomic, and X is the sole player > of this game. X can change the Ruleset in any manner they desire by > publishing a sufficiently clear message detailing such changes to an Agoran > mailing list." > The reason this doesn't work is because CFJs have no legal force whatsoever under the ruleset - CFJs are just persuasive interpretations that are de facto but not de jure binding. -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: @Tailor: Ribbons and Glitter
On Sat, Jul 17, 2021 at 1:14 PM Rebecca Lee via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I have held the office of Referee for 1 month (since 17 June) without > violating a time limit. I award myself a Green Ribbon. > I have deputised for Registrar today (17 July). I award myself Cyan Glitter > I have won an election for ADoP (on the 12th) and awarded myself Emerald > Glitter on that date. > I have passed a unanimous proposal amending a power 3 rule on July 15th and > awarded myself a red ribbon and orange glitter on that date. > > I am therefore eligible for a Transparent ribbon. I award myself a > Transparent Ribbon. > > -- > From R. Lee > My Emerald Glitter was awarded on the 11th UTC. This does not affect my eligibility for a Transparent. -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: Happy Tuesday!
On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 3:31 PM Trigon via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I call the following CFJ: This CFJ was called on 13 Jul 2021. > > Caller's Evidence: This message sure seems to think so. > > So as not to be dinged for No Faking, it is completely possible that > nothing here worked. > My clear information that it is the 12th in all areas of the world (based on multiple online clocks) means that, whatever the email header, this is factually false. -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Election updates
Registrar On Mon, Jul 12, 2021, 7:06 AM Trigon via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 11/07/2021 20:40, Edward Murphy via agora-official wrote: > > I initiate an Agoran decision to select the winner of the election for > > Registrar. > > > >* The Vote Collector is the ADoP (me). > > > >* The valid options are ATMunn, Gaelan, and anyone else who becomes a > > candidate before voting ends. > > > >* The voting method is instant runoff. > > I believe Aspen already started an election for Referee, right before > resigning. E did so in this message: > > > https://mailman.agoranomic.org/cgi-bin/mailman/private/agora-business/2021-July/046948.html > > -- > Trigon > > ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST > > I’m always happy to become a party to contracts. > I LOVE SPAGHETTI > transfer Jason one coin > nch was here > I hereby > don't... trust... the dragon... > don't... trust... the dragon... > Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this >
Re: BUS: Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Stonemason] July Stone Auction
I bid 317 on that stone On Wed, Jul 7, 2021, 10:47 AM Jason Cobb via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 7/6/21 7:57 PM, Rebecca Lee via agora-business wrote: > > Ttttpf > > > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2021, 9:56 AM Rebecca Lee via agora-discussion < > > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > >> I bid 300 on concentration stone > > > I bid 301 coins on the Concentration Stone in the ongoing stone auction. > > -- > Jason Cobb > > Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason > >
DIS: Re: OFF: [Stonemason] July Stone Auction
I bid 300 on concentration stone On Wed, Jul 7, 2021, 2:08 AM Jason Cobb via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > Pursuant to Rule 2642, I initiate a stone auction with the following > lots: [Sabotage Stone], [Concentration Stone], [Protection Stone]. > > The method to be used for this auction is a Selective-bid Auction, > defined jointly by regulations AM0 and AM5. In case of contradiction > between either the latest published ACORN or the platonic set of auction > regulations and the below text, the below text shall control. > > > > Regulation AM0/2 > Generalized Auction > > Generalized auctions exist to give context to the form of other > types of auctions. They CANNOT be held directly. Other auction > methods that use this type of auction as a starting point can > override attributes of generalized auctions except when it is > explicitly stated that that attribute is not able to be > overridden. > > INITIATION: When a person CAN begin an auction by this or any > derivative method, e CAN only do so by specifying the type of > auction method to be held, a list of lots to be auctioned off, and > the currency for the auction in a public message (henceforth the > "initiation message"). The bidding period starts at this point. > > BIDDING: Players CAN place a bid on an auction in its bidding > period by creating a public message (henceforth a "bid message") > specifying a number of the auction's currency as eir bid not equal > to the bid of another player. Players CAN withdraw from an open > auction by announcement. > > TERMINATION: The bidding period ends four days after the final > instance of any of the following events' occurance: > * the auction begins > * a bid is placed > * a player withdraws from the auction > > RETRIEVAL: When the bidding period ends, the retrieval period > begins. During the retrieval period, bidders will be allowed to > retrieve the assets required to pay for their bid. The retrieval > period lasts three days. Failing to have the requisite assets when > the retrieval period for an auction ends constitutes the Class 1 > Crime of Underfundedness. > > AWARDING: For each auction, there are a number of awardees equal > to the number of lots. The Nth lot of an auction goes to the Nth > awardee of that auction. If the identity of an awardee is > undecidable, then that lot cannot be given away. Auction methods > specify how awardees are picked for auctions using that method. > > PAYMENT AMOUNT: The amount that an awardee in an auction is > required to pay for eir lot is, unless otherwise specified, the > amount of the auction's curency specified in eir highest bid on > that auction. > > FUNDED PLAYERS: Derivative auction methods should ensure that only > players who, at the end of an auction's retrieval period, have at > least as much of that auction's currency as the amount that e is > required to pay in that auction (hereafter "funded players") can > be selected as awardees for auctions using that auction method. > > DISTRIBUTION: The auctioneer for an auction CAN and SHALL, within > seven days of the ending of that auction's retrieval period, > create a public message (henceforth the "distribution message") > that contains a full history of bids on the auction and > withdrawals from the auction. It must also clearly indicate each > awardee and the lot e recieves. In this message, the auctioneer > CAN and SHALL destroy the amount to be paid from the inventory > each awardee and transfer to that player (or create in eir > possession if the item is new) the set of assets associated with > the lot e won. Failing to publish a distribution message > constitutes the Class 3 Crime of Auction Abandonment. > > ACTIVE BIDS: The set of active bids for an auction is the set of > all funded, non-withdrawn players' highest bids on that auction. > > History: > > Enacted by Trigon, 08 Aug 2020 > Amended(1) by Trigon, 28 Mar 2021 > Amended(2) by Trigon, 05 May 2021 > > Annotations: > > > Regulation AM5/1 > Selective-bid Auctions > > Selective-bit auctions function like generalized auctions except: > > * Bidding messages on a selective-bid auction must also specify a > lot that is preferred. > * The Nth awardee of a selective-bid auction is the player who > placed the highest active bid whose preferred bid is the Nth > lot. > > History: > > Enacted by Trigon, 08 Aug 2020 > Amended(1) by Trigon, 05 May 2021 > > Annotations: > >
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Slightly Inefficient Blot Removal Acquisition
On Mon, Jul 5, 2021 at 1:34 PM Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion <
agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote:
>
>
> > On Jul 4, 2021, at 8:32 PM, Telna via agora-business <
> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote:
> >
> > On 2021-07-05 10:57, Gaelan Steele via agora-business wrote:
> >> I create the following promise in the Library's possession: {
> >> Cashing conditions: The bearer has transferred to Gaelan, in the same
> message, two blot-be-gones.
> >> Gaelan transfers the bearer one justice card.
> >> }
> >> Gaelan
> > I perform the following actions if and only if they all succeed:
> > {
> > I take the quoted promise from the Library.
> > I transfer two blot-be-gones to Gaelan.
> > I cash the quoted promise, causing Gaelan to transfer one justice card
> to me.
> > }
>
> If doing so would be EFFECTIVE, I pay a fee of one blot-b-gone to expunge
> one blot.
> If doing so would be EFFECTIVE, I pay a fee of one blot-b-gone to expunge
> one blot.
>
> Gaelan
not to the public forum
--
>From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: @Treasuror focus grant
Here, aris On Thu, Jul 1, 2021, 12:54 PM Rebecca Lee wrote: > > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 12:33 PM Rebecca Lee via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> It's a new month! My focus is now legislation. I claim a legislative >> card. >> I pay 2 legislative cards and combine them into 4 pendants. >> >> -- >> From R. Lee >> > > I assume that failed (you get 3 pendants, not 4, from 2 cards). I pay 2 > legislative cards to gain 3 pendants. > -- > From R. Lee >
DIS: Re: BUS: Proposal
On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 1:30 PM OatmealSurprise via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I (Mask) hereby propose the following: > """ > Reduce, Reuse, Recycle > On successful repeal of a rule, the player who proposed the repeal gains 2 > Pendants. > """ A proposal needs to specify what it's doing, like creating a new rule, amending an existing rule etc. So this proposal should say "create a new rule called 'Reduce Reuse Recycle' with the following text". Also, any new rule should have a power (a number between 1 and 4 that determines whether it overrules other rules). This rule could probably be power 1. Also, proposals should have a title and an adoption index (they don't have to, but all of them tend to). Adoption index is a complicated concept, but basically it's 1 if you're doing anything at power 1, 2 if you're doing anything at power 2, and 3 for anything at power 3. Power is that weird number that appears in brackets after each rule's title. A rule that does things at a higher power needs more votes. So essentially, a properly formatted version of this proposal would look like this "Title: Let's Repeal Stuff (or whatever other title) AI: 1 Text: Create a new power-1 rule called "Reduce Reuse Recycle" with the text "On successful repeal of a rule, the player who proposed the repeal gains 2 Pendants". Obviously you don't have to use that exact formatting, just give that information. -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: [Herald] Scroll Stats
How about stats on most wins ignoring the fact that Jason and margauex had to be annoying and win an arbitrary number of times On Sat, Jul 3, 2021, 6:36 AM nix via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I've been meaning to get to this, but I don't have everything set up in > a way to do as many categories as I'd like. However, I can at least > start doing a few categories. Here's some stats/leaderboards for the > scroll. > > Most Unique Win Types > - > 1. ais523 (10) > 2. Alexis (9) > 2. G. (9) > 2. omd (9) > 3. Murphy (6) > > Most Wins > - > 1. Jason (1006)* > 2. D. Margaux (504)* > 3. ais523 (17) > > *Includes multiple wins at once. > > Please give feedback on other things you'd like to see stats on. > > -- > nix > Webmastor, Ministor, Herald > >
DIS: Re: BUS: [DoV] Happy birthday [attn. Tailor]
Happy Birthday agora, and nice job jason. I award myself magenta glitter.
Re: DIS: Re: OFF: [Referee] @Treasuror: Courtesy Notification of Fingers & VC Claim
On Mon, Jun 28, 2021 at 11:54 AM Telna via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 2021-06-28 11:09, Rebecca Lee via agora-official wrote: > > The person who pointed the most fingers that led to a positive resolution > > in the most recent agoran week may claim a Justice Card under R2478. > > > > Only one finger had such a resolution in the previous agoran week: my > > finger at Gaelan (resolved by Telnaior). I am therefore able to claim a > > Justice Card. > > > > I claim a Justice Card. > > > That's not true, my Unjustified Gesticulation resolved that week as well. > Oh TRUE. So I don't have a justice card, I have a BBG and 2 blots. Sorry Treasuror! -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: OFF: [ADoP] Voting for Prime Minister
On Mon, Jun 28, 2021, 7:03 AM Edward Murphy via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I initiate an Agoran decision to eslect the winner of the election for > Prime Minister. > >* The Vote Collector is the ADoP (me). > >* The valid options are ais523, ATMunn, G., R. Lee, and anyone else > who becomes a candidate before voting ends. > >* The voting method is instant runoff. > I vote 1. Myself 2. Atmunn 3. G >
DIS: Re: BUS: [proposal] generic
On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 3:24 AM Kerim Aydin via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > I submit the following Proposal, "a new rule", AI-1: > > - > > Enact a Rule. > > - > > [I don't see anything to require a text in R105(1), and all the other > properties have defaults - maybe a requirement can be inferred from R2141.] > > I don't think there's anything preventing a textless rule, and why should there be? The rulekeepor could list it easily enough. -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Goldmine of old (pre-2007/8) rules
https://www.fysh.org/~zefram/agora/rules_text.txt If anyone wants to go back and fish for fun stuff to reenact, thatd be cool. Being in touch with our long history is good. -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Test
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 11:44 AM Jason Cobb via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I intend, without objection, to intend, without objection, to declare > Apathy. > > [G. suggested the archives went down on Discord.] > > -- > Jason Cobb > > Assessor, Rulekeepor, Stonemason > > i object -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: OFF: [Registrar] Agoran Directory
On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 9:29 AM Aris Merchant via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Sun, Jun 20, 2021 at 3:58 PM Aris Merchant via agora-official > wrote: > > > > > > The Agoran Directory > > > > > > > > Date of last report: 2021-06-10 > > Date of this report: 2021-06-20 > > (all times UTC) > > CoE: This doesn't list Telna as a player. > > Accepted. Revision: > > > The Agoran Directory > > > > Date of last report: 2021-06-10 > Date of this report: 2021-06-20 > (all times UTC) > > Archive of reports on the web: https://agoranomic.org/Registrar/ > > > Recent events > = > > 16-Mar-21 23:17 cuddlybanana registers. > 16-Mar-21 23:42 Aenet registers. > 21-Mar-21 03:06 Jumble registers. > (time of last report) > 10-Apr-21 19:00 Aris deactivates lucidiot with notice. > 10-Apr-21 19:00 Aris deactivates JTAC with notice. > 10-Apr-21 19:00 Aris deactivates Ubercrow with notice. > 10-Apr-21 19:00 Aris deactivates Noah with notice. > 10-Apr-21 19:00 Aris deactivates Slam_Joe_Jr_Supreme with notice. > 17-Apr-21 05:18 seventeenMachine registers. > 01-May-21 07:16 Nathan activates emself. > 01-May-21 22:43 Aris deregisters grok without 3 objections. > 01-May-21 22:43 Aris deregisters Shy Owl without 3 objections. > 08-Jun-21 15:45 ais523 registers. > 08-Jun-21 07:41 Aris deactivates Aenet. > 08-Jun-21 07:41 Aris deactivates Jumble. > 14-Jun-21 07:09 Telna registers. > 20-Jun-21 02:17 surprise registers. > > > Players, activity, and registration dates > = > > The following information from this section is self-ratifying: > - The value of each instance of the Citizenship switch (implied by the > list of players). > - The value of each instance of the Activity switch. > > There are 25 Players. The below is a list of all players. > > Player Registered Activity Last Changed Notes > -- -- - > omd 03 Feb 11 Active03 Feb 21 > Aris 13 Sep 16 Active03 Feb 21 > Gaelan 15 May 17 Active03 Feb 21 > G. 25 Aug 17 Active03 Feb 21 > Cuddlebeam 25 Aug 17 Active03 Feb 21 > Trigon 24 Sep 17 Active03 Feb 21 > Murphy 17 Dec 17 Active03 Feb 21 > ATMunn 11 Mar 18 Active03 Feb 21 > Falsifian13 Feb 19 Active03 Feb 21 > Jason02 Jun 19 Active03 Feb 21 > nix 18 Oct 19 Active03 Feb 21 > R. Lee 30 Jun 20 Active03 Feb 21 > Nathan 19 Aug 20 Active01 May 21 > cuddlybanana 16 Mar 21 Active16 Mar 21 > seventeenMachine 17 Apr 21 Active17 Apr 21 seventeen for > short > ais523 08 Jun 21 Active08 Jun 21 > Telna14 Jun 21 Active14 Jun 21 > surprise 20 Jun 21 Active20 Jun 21 > lucidiot 08 Nov 20 Inactive 10 Apr 21 > JTAC 03 Jan 21 Inactive 10 Apr 21 > Ubercrow 11 Jan 21 Inactive 10 Apr 21 > Noah 14 Jan 21 Inactive 10 Apr 21 > Slam_Joe_Jr_Supreme 19 Jan 21 Inactive 10 Apr 21 Joe for short > Aenet16 Mar 21 Inactive 10 Jun 21 > Jumble 21 Mar 21 Inactive 10 Jun 21 > > > Contact information > === > > (Required by rule 2139.) > > Player Contact > -- --- > omd comexk at gmail.com [0] > Aris thoughtsoflifeandlight17 at gmail.com > Gaelan gbs at canishe.com > G. kerim at uw.edu > Cuddlebeam cuddlebeam at gmail.com > Trigon reuben.staley at gmail.com > Murphy murphy.agora at gmail.com [1] > ATMunn iamingodsarmy at gmail.com > Falsifianagora at falsifian.org > Jasonjason.e.cobb at gmail.com > nix nixnull+agora at protonmail.com [2] > R. Lee SarahEstrange0 at gmail.com [3] > Nathan nathans.agora.email at gmail.com > lucidiot lucidiot at brainshit.fr > JTAC hmcl.supv at gmail.com > Ubercrow unicationsmith2009 at gmail.com > Noah blackbeangirl919 at gmail.com > Slam_Joe_Jr_Supreme arran.soule at gmail.com > cuddlybanana rose.strong42 at gmail.com > Aenetaidananthony14 at gmail.com > Jumble notajumbleofnumbers at gmail.com > seventeenMachine 17sagoranomicinbox at gmail.com > ais523
DIS: [Referee] Courtesy Flagging @Telna
Telna pointed 2 fingers that resulted in the CHOJ last Agoran week (E also pointed a single finger that resulted in a warning that was just inside this week by UTC). ATMunn pointed one such finger, nobody else pointed any. Telna may grant emself a Justice Card by announcement. -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: OFF: [Assessor] Resolution(?) of Proposal 8573
Given G. Has pledged not to moot this, we should all act as though it doesn't exist. On Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 9:50 AM Jason Cobb via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I perform the following actions if the referenced referendum exists: > > RESOLUTION OF PROPOSALS 8573 > > > IDTitle Result > - > 8573 The Device ADOPTED > > I hereby resolve the Agoran decisions to adopt the below proposals. > > The quorum for all below decisions was 3. > > VOTING STRENGTHS > > > Strength is 3 unless otherwise noted. > *: player has voting strength 8 > <: player has voting strength 13 > > PROPOSALS > = > > PROPOSAL 8573 (The Device) > AUTHOR: G. > CLASS: ORDINARY > FOR (5): G.*, Jason, Murphy, R. Lee, Trigon > AGAINST (1): Falsifian > PRESENT (0): > BALLOTS: 6 > AI (F/A): 20/3 (AI=1) > POPULARITY: 0.667 > OUTCOME: ADOPTED > [ > Trigon: Endorsement of G. > ] > > The full text of each ADOPTED proposal is included below: > > // > ID: 8573 > Title: The Device > Adoption index: 1 > Author: G. > Co-authors: Murphy > > > [inspired by Rules 2192-2193, "The Monster", by Murphy] > > > Enact a Rule "The Device" with the following text: > > When the device is on: > * click - hummm > > When the device is off: > * whirr - THUNK > > > Enact a Rule "The Mad Engineer" with the following text: > > The Mad Engineer is an office; its holder is responsible for > building and maintaining the Device. The device is a > singleton switch with values off (default) and on. The Mad > Engineer CAN flip the device to either on or off with Agoran > Consent; any other player CAN do so with 2 Agoran Consent. > > The Mad Engineer CAN act on behalf of > the device to take any action that the device may take, and > SHALL act on behalf of the device to ensure that the device > fulfills all of its duties. > > The Mad Engineer's weekly duties include the performance of the > following tasks, in order: > > a) Randomly select exactly one rule. If the selected rule is > either this rule or the rule "The Device", then > 007 has been spotted near the self-destruct button; skip > directly to proposal submission. > > b) Select one or more contiguous sentences from the selected > rule. > > c) Select exactly one noun from the selected text, and replace > each instance of that noun with "Device" (including > grammatical variations, e.g. replacing "'s" with > "Device's"). > > d) Announce intent to, with Agoran Consent, cause this rule > to amend the rule "The Device" by inserting the modified > text as the last list item in either the "device on" or > "device off" lists in that rule (or, if 007 has been > spotted, to repeal both that rule and this one). > This intent announcement counts as the Mad Engineers's weekly > report. > > If the announcement of intent above is made with the procedure > described above, the Mad Engineer CAN, with Agoran Consent, cause > this rule to amend the rule "The Device" as indicated, and SHALL > do so if the intent receives sufficient support. > > > G. becomes the holder of the office of Mad Engineer. > > An election for Mad Engineer is initiated. > > // > >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Treasuror] [Victory Auction] First Victory Auction of June 2021
I bid 661 On Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 1:41 PM Falsifian via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 11:16:14AM +1000, N. S. via agora-business wrote: > > I bid 502 (sorry for top text) > > I bid 600. > > -- > Falsifian >
DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Promotor] Distribution of Proposals 8574-8592
Me too On Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 2:22 PM ais523 via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Fri, 2021-06-18 at 00:20 -0400, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > > On 6/17/21 3:38 PM, Jason Cobb via agora-business wrote: > > > > 8586* Murphy 3.0 Clarify deputisation > > > FOR > > > > > I change this vote to AGAINST, per Falsifian. > > I also change my vote on this proposal to AGAINST. > > -- > ais523 > >
DIS: Re: OFF: [Herald] The Scroll of Agora
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 4:25 PM Rebecca Lee wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 7:46 AM nix via agora-official < > agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> === >> THE SCROLL OF AGORA >> === >> >> Herald's Monthly Report >> June 15, 2021 >> >> --- >> NEWS >> --- >> >> Falsifian has won by collecting 5 stones and wielding the >> gauntlet. Recorded here as via Gauntlet. >> >> Falsifian has won by Economic Takeover. >> >> Gaelan has won by transcending logic, recorded here >> as Paradox. >> >> Aris has won by Proposal. >> >> nix has been awarded a Silver Quill for the year 2020, for >>proposal 8408 (Sets v1.4). >> >> Aris has been awarded a Silver Quill for the year 2020, for >> proposal 8514 (The Buoyant Economy). >> >> --- >> CHAMPION by >> --- >> Anarchy: Alexis >>Apathy: ais523, Aris, babelian, Bayushi, D. Margaux, >>Gaelan (x2), grok, Ienpw III, Murphy, nix, o, >>omd, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, Quazie, >>R. Lee, Sprocklem, tmanthe2nd, twg, Veggiekeks, >>Warrigal, 天火狐 >> Cards: G., Murphy, OscarMeyr, root, Taral >> Champion*(11/6): Kelly >>Champion*(3/2): Chuck, Kelly, Steve >>Champion*(4/3): Chuck, Kelly, KoJen, Steve, >>Troublemaker at Large, Wes >>Champion*(5/3): Kelly, Steve >>Champion*(7/6): Chuck, elJefe, Kelly, KoJen, Morendil, Steve, >>Swann, Troublemaker at Large >> Clout: ais523, Alexis >> Economic Takeover: Cuddlebeam, Falsifian >> Election: G. >>Escape: omd >> Gauntlet: Falsifian >>High Score: ais523 (x3), Alexis (x2), BobTHJ, Cuddlebeam, >>Elysion, Falsifian, G. (x2), Jason, Levi, >>Murphy (x3), omd (x4), Pavitra, root, Steve, >>Tiger, Trigon, twg (x2), Walker, Wooble >> Junta: ais523 (x2), Alexis, G., nix, omd (x2), >>OscarMeyr, the AFO >>Leadership: ais523 >> Lotto: Alexis, omd >>Maniac: Craig, root >> Musicianship: ais523, omd, Tiger, Wooble, Zefram >> Paradox: ais523, Alexis, BobTHJ (x2), Bucky (x2), ehird, >>G. (x2), Gaelan, Murphy, omd, root >> Politics: Aris, D. Margaux (x2) >> Proposal: ais523 (x4), Alexis (x3), allispaul, Andon, >>Andre (x3), Aris, BobTHJ, Bucky, Canada, >>Cuddlebeam, D. Margaux (x501), G. (x2), >>Human Point Two, Morendil, Murphy, omd (x2), >>Spitemaster, Steve (x3), Tiger, Trigon, twg, >>woggle, Yally >> Renaissance: ais523, Alexis (x3), G. (x3), Jason, Murphy, twg >> Rulebending: G., Jason, nix >> Solitude: ais523 (x2), Alexis (x2), omd >> Spaaace: Falsifian, Jason (x1000) >>Tournament: Aris, ATMunn, G., grok, Jason (x2), OscarMeyr, >>Publius Scribonius Scholasticus, root, Taral, >>Wooble >> Unspecified: Blob, Chuck, Dave Bowen, elJefe, favor, Garth, >>General Chaos, Ian, Jeffrey, KoJen, Michael, >>Ørjan, Steve, Swann, t, Timothy, >>Troublemaker at Large, Vanyel (x2), Wes (x2) >> Via Ratification: The President >> >> >> >> ORDER OF THE HERO OF AGORA NOMIC >> >> GRAND HERO OF AGORA NOMIC >> Peter Suber, Chuck Carroll, Douglas Hofstadter, >> Michael Norrish >> >> HERO OF AGORA NOMIC >> Murphy, G., omd >> >> >> HIGHER EDUCATION >> >> Associate of Nomic Artistry (A.N.A.):Aris, Cuddlebeam >> Associate of Nomic (A.N.): G., Alexis, twg >> Juris
Re: DIS: [Proto] Ribbons are not switches
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:35 PM Trigon via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 17/06/2021 05:30, Gaelan Steele via agora-discussion wrote: > > > >> On Jun 16, 2021, at 10:05 PM, Rebecca Lee via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >> > >> Ribbons being switches is very dumb. Read this sentence and weep: "For > each > >> type of Ribbon, Ribbon Ownership is a secured negative boolean > >> person switch, tracked by the Tailor in eir monthly report.". It makes > >> ribbons seem very complicated but actually they're really simple. > > > > I'd argue that ribbons are actually a lot more like switches than assets: > > - You either have one or you don't > > - You can't have multiple of a ribbon > > - You can't transfer ribbons > > > > They're obviously not a perfect fit for either, so you have to do a bit > > of shoehorning either way, but I think switches are a simpler mapping > > than assets are. > > > > Gaelan > > Ribbons are currently tied to the switch system because it is seen as a > stable way to do things. Assets have been repealed since ribbons were > enacted but switches haven't. My personal opinion is that it isn't a > great fit for either and would probably be more enduring as just > property of persons, though there may be issues in making that look > elegant. > > -- > Trigon > > ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST > > I’m always happy to become a party to contracts. > I LOVE SPAGHETTI > transfer Jason one coin > nch was here > I hereby > don't... trust... the dragon... > don't... trust... the dragon... > Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this > I looked and it actually turns out I co-authored a proposal (8487) that instituted the current wording. Yeah, probably not going to pend this one. -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Cleaning Up a Typo
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:28 PM Rebecca Lee via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:20 PM Telna via agora-business < > agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > I intend without objection to clean Rule 2635 "Floating Rate Fleet" by > > correcting the word "Floatation" to "Flotation". > > > > (Wait, does Rule 2221 "Cleanliness and Tidy Filing" even work? Rule 105 > > "Rule Changes" says that no other rule can provide a mechanism to modify > > rules, and they're both the same power + the latter has a lower ID > > number. I make the intent regardless, though.) > > > > . First words of 105 "When the rules provide that an instrument takes > effect, it can generally [change the rules]". Rule 2221 allows players to > change the rules, but it does not provide that an instrument takes effect. > Players are not instruments (an instrument is an entity with positive > power, players do not have power)\. As you note 105 says " This rule > provides the only mechanism by which rules can be created, modified, or > destroyed, or by which an entity can become a rule or cease to be a rule." > 105 takes precedence due to its ID number. > > Yep, it seems very clear to me that rule 2221 does not provide a mechanism > for changing the rules. It needs to be amended to state that it takes > precedence. > > This has the following additional consequence: Any rule changes under 2221 > since the last SLR ratification must be reversed. > > > -- > From R. Lee > Ignore this email, I was talking nonsense. Rule 2221 says that the cleaning amends things "by this rule". Rule 2221 is an instrument so it can make changes as long as it fits under the specifications of rule 105. The old version of 2221 which had the player emself amend the rule was held invalid by CFJ 2494, immediately after which the "by this rule" clause was inserted. -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: BUS: Cleaning Up a Typo
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:20 PM Telna via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I intend without objection to clean Rule 2635 "Floating Rate Fleet" by > correcting the word "Floatation" to "Flotation". > > (Wait, does Rule 2221 "Cleanliness and Tidy Filing" even work? Rule 105 > "Rule Changes" says that no other rule can provide a mechanism to modify > rules, and they're both the same power + the latter has a lower ID > number. I make the intent regardless, though.) > . First words of 105 "When the rules provide that an instrument takes effect, it can generally [change the rules]". Rule 2221 allows players to change the rules, but it does not provide that an instrument takes effect. Players are not instruments (an instrument is an entity with positive power, players do not have power)\. As you note 105 says " This rule provides the only mechanism by which rules can be created, modified, or destroyed, or by which an entity can become a rule or cease to be a rule." 105 takes precedence due to its ID number. Yep, it seems very clear to me that rule 2221 does not provide a mechanism for changing the rules. It needs to be amended to state that it takes precedence. This has the following additional consequence: Any rule changes under 2221 since the last SLR ratification must be reversed. -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: [Proto] Ribbons are not switches
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 3:14 PM Telna via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 2021-06-17 15:05, Rebecca Lee via agora-discussion wrote: > > "Each type of ribbon is an indestructible fixed asset tracked by the > > Tailor in eir monthly report. Other rules notwithstanding, no entity > > other than a player can ever own a ribbon. If a non-player would own a > > ribbon, that ribbon is destroyed." > Be careful with who is allowed to own ribbons here; this would destroy > all your ribbons when you deregister. > Thanks, should be person indeed. -- >From R. Lee
DIS: [Proto] Ribbons are not switches
Ribbons being switches is very dumb. Read this sentence and weep: "For each type of Ribbon, Ribbon Ownership is a secured negative boolean person switch, tracked by the Tailor in eir monthly report.". It makes ribbons seem very complicated but actually they're really simple. Proto: Title: Ribbons are assets AI: 3 Text: In rule 2438 "Ribbons", replace "For each type of Ribbon, Ribbon Ownership is a secured negative boolean person switch, tracked by the Tailor in eir monthly report." with "Each type of ribbon is an indestructible fixed asset tracked by the Tailor in eir monthly report. Other rules notwithstanding, no entity other than a player can ever own a ribbon. If a non-player would own a ribbon, that ribbon is destroyed." In the same rule, replace "When a person wins this way, for each type of Ribbon, that person's Ribbon Ownership is flipped to False." with "When a person wins this way, each of their ribbons is destroyed." [Note that an "indestructible asset" can still be destroyed by its backing document, just not in any other way] -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Referee] Investigation of Trigon
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 2:46 PM Trigon via agora-business < agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > On 17/06/2021 04:41, Trigon via agora-discussion wrote: > > On 17/06/2021 04:15, Rebecca Lee via agora-official wrote: > >> On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 2:08 PM Telna via agora-business < > >> agora-busin...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > >>> *sigh* > >>> I Point my Finger at Trigon for not tracking the Unit of Flotation in > >>> eir weekly report for the week beginning June 7th as directed by Rule > >>> 2635 "Floating Rate Fleet". > >>> I Point my Finger at Trigon for not tracking the Unit of Flotation in > >>> eir weekly report for the week beginning May 31st as directed by Rule > >>> 2635 "Floating Rate Fleet". > >>> > >> > >> I hereby investigate both of these finger pointings. > >> > >> Trigon did indeed violate rule 2635 (implemented in rule 2143) by > failing > >> to track this information in documents that purported to be Treasuror's > >> reports. E did so in both weeks, which are within the statute of > >> limitations (the deadline for the week of May 31 expired 12 days ago on > >> June 6). > >> > >> I impose the Cold Hand of Justice on Trigon for not tracking the Unit of > >> Flotation for the week of May 31st. Although there's no Class of crime > >> here > >> I find it exceedingly similar to the Class-2 crime of Tardiness. The > >> crime > >> is inadvertent and appears to be a simple lack of knowledge of exactly > >> what > >> e had to track (Trigon has generally done a great job of officer > accuracy > >> and timeliness). I impose a 1 blot fine on Trigon. > >> > >> I impose the Cold Hand of Justice on Trigon for not tracking the Unit of > >> Flotation for the week of June 7th. I levy a 1 blot fine on Trigon, see > >> above. > >> > > > > Actually, the Unit of Flotation is tracked in the Treasuror's weekly > > report. Admittedly, it's not next to the Total Buoyancy, as one might > > expect, but it is in there, in the History section, at the beginning of > > each month: > > > >> *** Tue 1 June 2021 ... > >> [00:00] RELEVELING: TB=35779, UF=14. > > > > This might not be enough, however, since this is the History section's > > header: > > > >> RECENT HISTORY(does not self-ratify) > >> > > > > The labels on the right side have always been intended to be > > informational; however, I admit that it's not one hundred percent clear > > what these do legally. > > > > I accept that I should put these things in a better location, and I > > apologize for the elision of the information. I will include it in > > future reports. In my defense, the bit requiring that I track the UF is > > in a weird place. > > > > I'm going to go ahead and CFJ this. > > CFJ: Trigon fulfilled eir obligation to track the Unit of Flotation for > the weeks of 31 May and 7 Jun. > > Arguments: the portion of the text quoted above written by Trigon. > > -- > Trigon > > ¸¸.•*¨*• Play AGORA QUEST > > I’m always happy to become a party to contracts. > I LOVE SPAGHETTI > transfer Jason one coin > nch was here > I hereby > don't... trust... the dragon... > don't... trust... the dragon... > Do not Construe Jason's message with subject TRIGON as extending this > Argument: Trigon is essentially saying "at 0:00 on this date, the UF was set to 14" which doesn't satisfy eir obligation to publish the current UF weekly (it's merely making a historical statement). Furthermore, everything in a history section is implied to consist of historical statements, not current tracking. -- >From R. Lee
DIS: Re: OFF: [Deputy Referee] (sorry Gaelan <3) Crime Time (weekly report) [Attn. Arbitor - Pending Fingers]
On Thu, Jun 17, 2021 at 1:07 PM Rebecca Lee via agora-official < agora-offic...@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > 16/06/2021 - Telnaior points finger at twg for omitting report information > > This is in a non-self-ratifying section but for clarity - Telnaior pointed eir finger at trigon, not twg. -- >From R. Lee
Re: DIS: Proto: Cabals
On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 6:38 PM Cuddle Beam via agora-discussion < agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > I don't believe we have enough players to make this work. > > BUT! What if we made this a Tournament! Compressing participation into a > single hyped moment should be enough to make it work. > > > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2021 at 2:36 AM nix via agora-discussion < > agora-discussion@agoranomic.org> wrote: > > > > > > > On 6/15/21 7:13 PM, ais523 via agora-discussion wrote: > > > The basic idea is to add an asymmetrical/political resource > > > distribution mechanism with lots of tension (being in a large Cabal > > > means it gets Cards to hand out, but it'll have to try to split them > > > more ways; and different Cabals get to try out different ways to > > > distribute the Cards they get, competing to try to attract players). > > > > > > We might want to remove some resource distribution mechanisms, or > > > increase the cost in Products of some actions, in order to balance out > > > the increased Card supply. > > > > Love this proto already. Assorted thoughts: > > > > Agree we might have to rethink how cards are gained if we do this. > > > > Players not in the cabalogarchy should get compensation, such as a > > monthly product. > > > > I would tie the cabal award to the month rather than 30 days. That > > matches with some other mechanical trends we have currently. > > > > Not sure what, if anything, discourages two cabals from cooperating here > > to get more cards. > > > > Do we have enough active players to maintain 3 cabals and make them > > dynamic? > > > > -- > > nix > > Webmastor, Ministor, Herald > > > > > > > I wonder if we made three pre-existing teams like Red Yellow Blue and then allowed players to choose their team would it be more easy to maintain three teams with a small player base? Or would everyone just join the same team. -- >From R. Lee
