DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
This did occur to me, but I figured all it did was extend the timeline a few
days. IIRC there was a CFJ a while ago - I believe in response to your antics
as well! :P - that said repeatedly retracting and re-objecting did not reapply
the Speaker veto.
-twg
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Sunday, February 10, 2019 2:51 PM, D. Margaux wrote:
> Just in case...
>
> > On Feb 4, 2019, at 5:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of
> > Nomic (A.N.).
>
> I object. I withdraw my objection.
>
> > On Feb 4, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey m...@timon.red wrote:
> > It's not 100% guaranteed to work, but why not - I intend, without
> > objection, to Declare Apathy, specifying the set of players that is the
> > union of
> > (a) {twg},
> > (b) if ais523 is a player at the time this action is performed, then
> > {ais523}, otherwise the empty set, and
> > (c) the set of people who, at the time this action is performed, are
> > players and have privately sent me a broadly correct explanation of the
> > scam.
>
> I object.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
And at least one more...maybe...
> On Feb 10, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
>
> Ah I see you thought of the same bug as I.
>
> Greetings,
> Ørjan.
>
>> On Sun, 10 Feb 2019, D. Margaux wrote:
>>
>> Just in case...
>>
>>> On Feb 4, 2019, at 5:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of
>>> Nomic (A.N.).
>>
>> I object. I withdraw my objection.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 4, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>>>
>>> It's not 100% guaranteed to work, but why not - I intend, without
>>> objection, to Declare Apathy, specifying the set of players that is the
>>> union of
>>> (a) {twg},
>>> (b) if ais523 is a player at the time this action is performed, then
>>> {ais523}, otherwise the empty set, and
>>> (c) the set of people who, at the time this action is performed, are
>>> players and have privately sent me a broadly correct explanation of the
>>> scam.
>>
>> I object.
DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
Ah I see you thought of the same bug as I.
Greetings,
Ørjan.
On Sun, 10 Feb 2019, D. Margaux wrote:
Just in case...
On Feb 4, 2019, at 5:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of Nomic
(A.N.).
I object. I withdraw my objection.
On Feb 4, 2019, at 6:22 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
It's not 100% guaranteed to work, but why not - I intend, without objection, to
Declare Apathy, specifying the set of players that is the union of
(a) {twg},
(b) if ais523 is a player at the time this action is performed, then {ais523},
otherwise the empty set, and
(c) the set of people who, at the time this action is performed, are players
and have privately sent me a broadly correct explanation of the scam.
I object.
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
Well, I admit I am totally perplexed by this. Excited to see what the scam is,
that ties together dependent actions, nonconsensual deregistration, arbitrary
power 3 rule-creation, and currency fungibility!
Unless there are multiple separate scams being run here? Or there’s some
misdirection going on?
> On Feb 4, 2019, at 5:20 PM, Gaelan Steele wrote:
>
> Please do tell at some point—that sounds great
>
> Gaelan
>
>> On Feb 4, 2019, at 2:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>>
>> Ta.
>>
>> I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of
>> Nomic (A.N.).
>>
>> (Incidentally, this scam method could also be used for a power-3
>> dictatorship, but if I did that, it would end up deregistering the Promotor,
>> the Arbitor, the ADoP and at least one zombie as a side-effect. Following
>> advice from G., I've decided to perform this watered-down version - which
>> does not cause adverse effects to any player - instead.)
>>
>> -twg
>>
>>
>> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>>> On Monday, February 4, 2019 11:05 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree to the below contract. -G.
>>>
>>> ("you can't spell fungible without having fun")
>>>
On 2/4/2019 1:00 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
Niiice, Telnaior. c: It wasn't, in fact, what I was going for. I guess
contracts are just horribly broken, huh.
I consent to be bound by the terms of the following document, with the
intent for it to become a contract provided G. also so agrees. (Slightly
modified from the previous version to improve G.'s security.)
{
This is a contract between twg and G. Other persons CANNOT become parties.
twg CAN modify this contract by announcement, with the exception that twg
CANNOT (and SHALL NOT attempt to) modify this contract such that it
imposes any obligation on G. or otherwise significantly harms eir standing
in the game, or such that this paragraph is removed, altered or otherwise
rendered ineffective.
Beads are a currency defined by this contract. Ownership of beads is
restricted to any entity. twg CAN, by announcement, create a bead in the
possession of any entity.
Each bead has a colour, which is one of the following: red, green, blue,
cyan, magenta, yellow or white. The colour of a bead is set when it is
created and cannot thereafter be changed. An attempt to create a bead is
INEFFECTIVE if the colour of the bead is not specified.
}
whistles innocently
(I'm also quite happy to just explain the scam, incidentally, and will on
request from G. But it seems more fun to give a relatively-harmless live
demonstration.)
-twg
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
On Monday, February 4, 2019 11:22 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > It's not 100% guaranteed to work, Actually, scratch that bit, it works fine (again, assuming the scam itself works in the first place). -twg
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
Well, in accordance with Murphy's Law, I predict I've overlooked something
stupidly obvious and it won't work at all, but I'm glad everyone's finding it
interesting. Nothing more to see here until the 4-day limit expires, so please
return to your regularly scheduled interstellar warfare and tune in again at
the weekend.
> For what it's worth, the claimed powers of the scam make me suspect it
> somehow interferes with dependent actions (but in that case, why not go
> for Win by Apathy?).
It's not 100% guaranteed to work, but why not - I intend, without objection, to
Declare Apathy, specifying the set of players that is the union of
(a) {twg},
(b) if ais523 is a player at the time this action is performed, then {ais523},
otherwise the empty set, and
(c) the set of people who, at the time this action is performed, are players
and have privately sent me a broadly correct explanation of the scam.
> Arguably, a clear enough description of a scam that was capable of
> forcing through theses, and also of gaining a power-3 dictatorship but
> with some oddly specific side effects, would be interesting enough to
> count as a thesis in its own right (unless the loophole is particularly
> simple or stupid).
Yes, G. privately suggested just now that I post a write-up later and
retroactively label it my A.N. thesis, but I do want to at least attempt the
shortcut first. (But who knows, maybe it _is_ considered "simple" by historical
standards, even if it seems pretty complicated to me. Never been around for a
dictatorship before.)
And now I'm going to shut up before I give too much away.
-twg
‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Monday, February 4, 2019 10:49 PM, ais...@alumni.bham.ac.uk
wrote:
> On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 14:39 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>
> > On 2/4/2019 2:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
> >
> > > Ta.
> > > I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of
> > > Nomic (A.N.).
> >
> > Ok, a contract and a thesis intent, very intrigued...
> > I'm fighting between my "contest-running" hat to be a patsy and support
> > everything vs. my herald's desire to object to any "unearned" degrees,
> > so I'm gonna just stay neutral over here for now...
>
>
> For what it's worth, the claimed powers of the scam make me suspect it
> somehow interferes with dependent actions (but in that case, why not go
> for Win by Apathy?). I've already read through part of the Ruleset for
> the Week and noticed at least one rather awkward problem in the
> dependent action rules, but as far as I can tell it wouldn't have the
> effect described (and most of the resulting brokenness is likely to
> have ratified away by now; luckily, the specific problem is unlikely to
> affect Ratification Without Objection).
>
> --
>
> ais523
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
On Mon, 2019-02-04 at 14:39 -0800, Kerim Aydin wrote: > On 2/4/2019 2:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > > Ta. > > > > I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of > > Nomic (A.N.). > > Ok, a contract and a thesis intent, very intrigued... > > I'm fighting between my "contest-running" hat to be a patsy and support > everything vs. my herald's desire to object to any "unearned" degrees, > so I'm gonna just stay neutral over here for now... Arguably, a clear enough description of a scam that was capable of forcing through theses, and also of gaining a power-3 dictatorship but with some oddly specific side effects, would be interesting enough to count as a thesis in its own right (unless the loophole is particularly simple or stupid). For what it's worth, the claimed powers of the scam make me suspect it somehow interferes with dependent actions (but in that case, why not go for Win by Apathy?). I've already read through part of the Ruleset for the Week and noticed at least one rather awkward problem in the dependent action rules, but as far as I can tell it wouldn't have the effect described (and most of the resulting brokenness is likely to have ratified away by now; luckily, the specific problem is unlikely to affect Ratification Without Objection). -- ais523
DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
On 2/4/2019 2:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote: > Ta. > > I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of > Nomic (A.N.). Ok, a contract and a thesis intent, very intrigued... I'm fighting between my "contest-running" hat to be a patsy and support everything vs. my herald's desire to object to any "unearned" degrees, so I'm gonna just stay neutral over here for now...
DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
Please do tell at some point—that sounds great
Gaelan
> On Feb 4, 2019, at 2:11 PM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>
> Ta.
>
> I intend, with 2 Agoran Consent, to award myself the degree Associate of
> Nomic (A.N.).
>
> (Incidentally, this scam method could also be used for a power-3
> dictatorship, but if I did that, it would end up deregistering the Promotor,
> the Arbitor, the ADoP and at least one zombie as a side-effect. Following
> advice from G., I've decided to perform this watered-down version - which
> does not cause adverse effects to any player - instead.)
>
> -twg
>
>
> ‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
>> On Monday, February 4, 2019 11:05 AM, Kerim Aydin wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree to the below contract. -G.
>>
>> ("you can't spell fungible without having fun")
>>
>>> On 2/4/2019 1:00 AM, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
>>>
>>> Niiice, Telnaior. c: It wasn't, in fact, what I was going for. I guess
>>> contracts are just horribly broken, huh.
>>> I consent to be bound by the terms of the following document, with the
>>> intent for it to become a contract provided G. also so agrees. (Slightly
>>> modified from the previous version to improve G.'s security.)
>>> {
>>> This is a contract between twg and G. Other persons CANNOT become parties.
>>> twg CAN modify this contract by announcement, with the exception that twg
>>> CANNOT (and SHALL NOT attempt to) modify this contract such that it imposes
>>> any obligation on G. or otherwise significantly harms eir standing in the
>>> game, or such that this paragraph is removed, altered or otherwise rendered
>>> ineffective.
>>> Beads are a currency defined by this contract. Ownership of beads is
>>> restricted to any entity. twg CAN, by announcement, create a bead in the
>>> possession of any entity.
>>> Each bead has a colour, which is one of the following: red, green, blue,
>>> cyan, magenta, yellow or white. The colour of a bead is set when it is
>>> created and cannot thereafter be changed. An attempt to create a bead is
>>> INEFFECTIVE if the colour of the bead is not specified.
>>> }
>>> whistles innocently
>>> (I'm also quite happy to just explain the scam, incidentally, and will on
>>> request from G. But it seems more fun to give a relatively-harmless live
>>> demonstration.)
>>> -twg
>
>
Re: DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
It's Complicated: https://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/cases/?1362
(or if not complicated, it's at least wordy).
On 2/4/2019 7:52 AM, Ørjan Johansen wrote:
I assume G. was hinting to the fact that these are fungible assets yet
distinguishable. Not that the rules define what "fungible" means, anymore.
Which might make them hard to track, so just as well that there's no
recordkeepor defined.
No idea how you intend to get any advantage out of this, though.
Greetings,
Ørjan.
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
Niiice, Telnaior. c: It wasn't, in fact, what I was going for. I guess
contracts are just horribly broken, huh.
I consent to be bound by the terms of the following document, with the
intent for it to become a contract provided G. also so agrees. (Slightly
modified from the previous version to improve G.'s security.)
{
This is a contract between twg and G. Other persons CANNOT become parties.
twg CAN modify this contract by announcement, with the exception that twg
CANNOT (and SHALL NOT attempt to) modify this contract such that it
imposes any obligation on G. or otherwise significantly harms eir standing
in the game, or such that this paragraph is removed, altered or otherwise
rendered ineffective.
Beads are a currency defined by this contract. Ownership of beads is
restricted to any entity. twg CAN, by announcement, create a bead in the
possession of any entity.
Each bead has a colour, which is one of the following: red, green, blue,
cyan, magenta, yellow or white. The colour of a bead is set when it is
created and cannot thereafter be changed. An attempt to create a bead is
INEFFECTIVE if the colour of the bead is not specified.
}
*whistles innocently*
(I'm also quite happy to just explain the scam, incidentally, and will on
request from G. But it seems more fun to give a relatively-harmless live
demonstration.)
-twg
DIS: Re: BUS: still need a currency for something
I assume G. was hinting to the fact that these are fungible assets yet
distinguishable. Not that the rules define what "fungible" means,
anymore.
Which might make them hard to track, so just as well that there's no
recordkeepor defined.
No idea how you intend to get any advantage out of this, though.
Greetings,
Ørjan.
On Mon, 4 Feb 2019, Timon Walshe-Grey wrote:
Niiice, Telnaior. c: It wasn't, in fact, what I was going for. I guess
contracts are just horribly broken, huh.
I consent to be bound by the terms of the following document, with the
intent for it to become a contract provided G. also so agrees. (Slightly
modified from the previous version to improve G.'s security.)
{
This is a contract between twg and G. Other persons CANNOT become parties.
twg CAN modify this contract by announcement, with the exception that
twg CANNOT (and SHALL NOT attempt to) modify this contract such that it
imposes any obligation on G. or otherwise significantly harms eir
standing in the game, or such that this paragraph is removed, altered or
otherwise rendered ineffective.
Beads are a currency defined by this contract. Ownership of beads is
restricted to any entity. twg CAN, by announcement, create a bead in the
possession of any entity.
Each bead has a colour, which is one of the following: red, green, blue,
cyan, magenta, yellow or white. The colour of a bead is set when it is
created and cannot thereafter be changed. An attempt to create a bead is
INEFFECTIVE if the colour of the bead is not specified.
}
*whistles innocently*
(I'm also quite happy to just explain the scam, incidentally, and will
on request from G. But it seems more fun to give a relatively-harmless
live demonstration.)
-twg
