Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[ATMunn .]

Yeah, I understood that it was posted to agora-discussion intentionally. My
post was mostly a joke.

I have come across the Spivak thing, and was wondering about it some.
Thanks for the explanation.

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 8:18 PM, Alex Smith 
wrote:

> On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 20:09 -0400, ATMunn . wrote:
> > I'm tempted to actually initiate a CFJ on that now.
> >
> > Is that a dumb idea?
> > That's probably a dumb idea.
> >
> > But maybe it's not. I have no idea.
>
> I'm pretty sure it was posted to agora-discussion intentionally,
> meaning that it can't take game actions.
>
> It might well have been somewhat ambiguous if posted to agora-business;
> we used to have a rule that typos didn't matter when submitting actions
> (unless the result was unclear), but we don't any more, so the old
> precedent (that it works) might not apply nowadays.
>
> I'd guess it works, though; we allow actions in foreign languages if
> everyone understands what they mean, and typoed English/Spivak is just
> as understandable. (As you're new, and might not have come across this:
> Spivak is the language in which Agora is typically played, and is
> similar to English, but a few of the pronouns are different. Notably,
> third-person singular pronouns are "e/em/eir/emself", e.g. "e" combines
> the normal meanings of "he", "she" and "it". This is useful when the
> rules sometimes require you to treat an abstract concept as though it
> were a person; they don't at the moment, but have under several
> previous rulesets. They also get around any need to learn people's
> pronoun genders.)
>
> --
> ais523
>

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Alex Smith]

On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 20:09 -0400, ATMunn . wrote:
> I'm tempted to actually initiate a CFJ on that now.
> 
> Is that a dumb idea?
> That's probably a dumb idea.
> 
> But maybe it's not. I have no idea.

I'm pretty sure it was posted to agora-discussion intentionally,
meaning that it can't take game actions.

It might well have been somewhat ambiguous if posted to agora-business; 
we used to have a rule that typos didn't matter when submitting actions
(unless the result was unclear), but we don't any more, so the old
precedent (that it works) might not apply nowadays.

I'd guess it works, though; we allow actions in foreign languages if
everyone understands what they mean, and typoed English/Spivak is just
as understandable. (As you're new, and might not have come across this:
Spivak is the language in which Agora is typically played, and is
similar to English, but a few of the pronouns are different. Notably,
third-person singular pronouns are "e/em/eir/emself", e.g. "e" combines
the normal meanings of "he", "she" and "it". This is useful when the
rules sometimes require you to treat an abstract concept as though it
were a person; they don't at the moment, but have under several
previous rulesets. They also get around any need to learn people's
pronoun genders.)

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[ATMunn .]

I'm tempted to actually initiate a CFJ on that now.

Is that a dumb idea?
That's probably a dumb idea.

But maybe it's not. I have no idea.

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 7:50 PM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

>
> On Sep 22, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Jonathan Rouillard <
> jonathan.rouill...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> > * Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call endless
> CFJs to support those interpretations.
>
> Finding them is optional in certain circumstances. Sometimes they show up
> on their own. I submit the following into evidence:
>
> CJF: ATMunn is a player.
>
> Welcome to Agora! =)
>
> ~ Roujo
>
>
> Hah! Not a CFJ, though.
>
> -o
>
>

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Owen Jacobson]

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 7:14 PM, Jonathan Rouillard 
>  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM Owen Jacobson  > wrote:
> > * Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call endless CFJs 
> > to support those interpretations.
> 
> Finding them is optional in certain circumstances. Sometimes they show up on 
> their own. I submit the following into evidence:
> 
> CJF: ATMunn is a player.
> 
> Welcome to Agora! =)
> 
> ~ Roujo

Hah! Not a CFJ, though.

-o



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Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[ATMunn .]

If people can't do what they want, sometimes they'll go to extremes to do
it anyway...

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 7:25 PM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> > On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 23:14 +, Jonathan Rouillard wrote:
> > > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM Owen Jacobson 
> > > wrote:
> > > > * Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call
> > > > endless
> > >
> > > CFJs to support those interpretations.
> > >
> > > Finding them is optional in certain circumstances. Sometimes they
> > > show up
> > > on their own. I submit the following into evidence:
> > >
> > > CJF: ATMunn is a player.
> > >
> > > Welcome to Agora! =)
> >
> > CFJing whether registrations worked was such a pastime at one point
> > that we had to add a rule banning it unless there was actual
> > uncertainty.
> >
> > We subsequently discovered that Agorans can manufacture uncertainty out
> > of almost anything.
>
> It particular, whenever we ban CFJing something unless there's uncertainty,
> we get CFJs on the uncertainty of whether there's uncertainty.
>
>
>
>
>

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Kerim Aydin]

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 23:14 +, Jonathan Rouillard wrote:
> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM Owen Jacobson 
> > wrote:
> > > * Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call
> > > endless
> > 
> > CFJs to support those interpretations.
> > 
> > Finding them is optional in certain circumstances. Sometimes they
> > show up
> > on their own. I submit the following into evidence:
> > 
> > CJF: ATMunn is a player.
> > 
> > Welcome to Agora! =)
> 
> CFJing whether registrations worked was such a pastime at one point
> that we had to add a rule banning it unless there was actual
> uncertainty.
> 
> We subsequently discovered that Agorans can manufacture uncertainty out
> of almost anything.

It particular, whenever we ban CFJing something unless there's uncertainty,
we get CFJs on the uncertainty of whether there's uncertainty.

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Alex Smith]

On Fri, 2017-09-22 at 23:14 +, Jonathan Rouillard wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM Owen Jacobson 
> wrote:
> > * Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call
> > endless
> 
> CFJs to support those interpretations.
> 
> Finding them is optional in certain circumstances. Sometimes they
> show up
> on their own. I submit the following into evidence:
> 
> CJF: ATMunn is a player.
> 
> Welcome to Agora! =)

CFJing whether registrations worked was such a pastime at one point
that we had to add a rule banning it unless there was actual
uncertainty.

We subsequently discovered that Agorans can manufacture uncertainty out
of almost anything.

-- 
ais523

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Jonathan Rouillard]

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM Owen Jacobson  wrote:
> * Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call endless
CFJs to support those interpretations.

Finding them is optional in certain circumstances. Sometimes they show up
on their own. I submit the following into evidence:

CJF: ATMunn is a player.

Welcome to Agora! =)

~ Roujo

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Kerim Aydin]

Agora tends to go through periods of building game systems (lots of
proposal drafting) then periods of playing what we set up (lots of
basic transaction messages, trades, gameplay).  We're very much in the 
first mode right now - hopefully not for much longer we've been there
since around May - so if there doesn't seem anything obvious to *do*
other than writing proposals, that's a situational thing.

On Fri, 22 Sep 2017, ATMunn . wrote:
> Thanks for the welcome package, whether it actually worked or not.
> 
> I still have no real idea what I'm going to do; so for now I'll just watch 
> and see what comes up. I'm sure I'll find something to do
> sooner or later.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>   On Sep 21, 2017, at 9:35 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> 
>   > Hey! I'm ATMunn.
>   > I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded 
> interesting, so I joined.
>   >
>   > I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I 
> have no idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
>   > But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm 
> sure you all can help me learn the ropes.
>   >
>   > I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so 
> you can pretty much always contact me there (I may
>   not respond right away though if I'm busy).
> 
> Welcome!
> 
> 10 Fun Things To Do In Agora When You’re Dead:
> 
> * Scam a dictatorship and single-handedly cause a month-long lull in the game.
> 
> * Sit on an eighth of the economic resources and do nothing obvious with 
> them. (Cough.)
> 
> * Write a proposal that is impossible to vote against.
> 
> * Vote against it anyways.
> 
> * Demonstrate that an innocent-looking mechanic is far more powerful and 
> useful than anyone intended.
> 
> * Design a subgame. Try to get it enacted into the rules.
> 
> * Run for an office.
> 
> * Run from an office.
> 
> * Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call endless CFJs 
> to support those interpretations.
> 
> * Win.
> 
> I’ve kicked over a welcome package (Rule 2499) for you. This should give you 
> enough shinies to put forward several proposals and
> calls for judgement, if it catches your fancy to do so.
> 
> Note that by a strict reading of the rules, that action did not work - this 
> is a known issue and proposals are in flight to fix
> that problem. We have an established agreement to keep records as if that the 
> actions work anyways, and I plan to ratify the
> results retroactively once the rules are fixed. Reading up on the history of 
> this problem might be interesting if you have
> interest in how the rules function.
> 
> -o
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Josh T]

I think that is a wise plan. I feel like I didn't do very much aside from
watch for the first six months I was playing (my organization
notwithstanding).

天火狐

On 22 September 2017 at 13:25, ATMunn .  wrote:

> Thanks for the welcome package, whether it actually worked or not.
>
> I still have no real idea what I'm going to do; so for now I'll just watch
> and see what comes up. I'm sure I'll find something to do sooner or later.
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:
>
>> On Sep 21, 2017, at 9:35 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
>>
>> > Hey! I'm ATMunn.
>> > I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded
>> interesting, so I joined.
>> >
>> > I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I
>> have no idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
>> > But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm sure
>> you all can help me learn the ropes.
>> >
>> > I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so
>> you can pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away
>> though if I'm busy).
>>
>> Welcome!
>>
>> 10 Fun Things To Do In Agora When You’re Dead:
>>
>> * Scam a dictatorship and single-handedly cause a month-long lull in the
>> game.
>>
>> * Sit on an eighth of the economic resources and do nothing obvious with
>> them. (Cough.)
>>
>> * Write a proposal that is impossible to vote against.
>>
>> * Vote against it anyways.
>>
>> * Demonstrate that an innocent-looking mechanic is far more powerful and
>> useful than anyone intended.
>>
>> * Design a subgame. Try to get it enacted into the rules.
>>
>> * Run for an office.
>>
>> * Run from an office.
>>
>> * Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call endless
>> CFJs to support those interpretations.
>>
>> * Win.
>>
>> I’ve kicked over a welcome package (Rule 2499) for you. This should give
>> you enough shinies to put forward several proposals and calls for
>> judgement, if it catches your fancy to do so.
>>
>> Note that by a strict reading of the rules, that action did not work -
>> this is a known issue and proposals are in flight to fix that problem. We
>> have an established agreement to keep records as if that the actions work
>> anyways, and I plan to ratify the results retroactively once the rules are
>> fixed. Reading up on the history of this problem might be interesting if
>> you have interest in how the rules function.
>>
>> -o
>>
>>
>

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[ATMunn .]

Thanks for the welcome package, whether it actually worked or not.

I still have no real idea what I'm going to do; so for now I'll just watch
and see what comes up. I'm sure I'll find something to do sooner or later.

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Owen Jacobson  wrote:

> On Sep 21, 2017, at 9:35 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
>
> > Hey! I'm ATMunn.
> > I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded
> interesting, so I joined.
> >
> > I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I
> have no idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
> > But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm sure
> you all can help me learn the ropes.
> >
> > I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so
> you can pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away
> though if I'm busy).
>
> Welcome!
>
> 10 Fun Things To Do In Agora When You’re Dead:
>
> * Scam a dictatorship and single-handedly cause a month-long lull in the
> game.
>
> * Sit on an eighth of the economic resources and do nothing obvious with
> them. (Cough.)
>
> * Write a proposal that is impossible to vote against.
>
> * Vote against it anyways.
>
> * Demonstrate that an innocent-looking mechanic is far more powerful and
> useful than anyone intended.
>
> * Design a subgame. Try to get it enacted into the rules.
>
> * Run for an office.
>
> * Run from an office.
>
> * Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call endless
> CFJs to support those interpretations.
>
> * Win.
>
> I’ve kicked over a welcome package (Rule 2499) for you. This should give
> you enough shinies to put forward several proposals and calls for
> judgement, if it catches your fancy to do so.
>
> Note that by a strict reading of the rules, that action did not work -
> this is a known issue and proposals are in flight to fix that problem. We
> have an established agreement to keep records as if that the actions work
> anyways, and I plan to ratify the results retroactively once the rules are
> fixed. Reading up on the history of this problem might be interesting if
> you have interest in how the rules function.
>
> -o
>
>

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Owen Jacobson]

On Sep 21, 2017, at 9:35 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:

> Hey! I'm ATMunn.
> I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded 
> interesting, so I joined.
> 
> I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I have no 
> idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
> But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm sure you 
> all can help me learn the ropes.
> 
> I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so you can 
> pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away though if 
> I'm busy).

Welcome!

10 Fun Things To Do In Agora When You’re Dead:

* Scam a dictatorship and single-handedly cause a month-long lull in the game.

* Sit on an eighth of the economic resources and do nothing obvious with them. 
(Cough.)

* Write a proposal that is impossible to vote against.

* Vote against it anyways.

* Demonstrate that an innocent-looking mechanic is far more powerful and useful 
than anyone intended.

* Design a subgame. Try to get it enacted into the rules.

* Run for an office.

* Run from an office.

* Find the most unlikely interpretations of the rules and call endless CFJs to 
support those interpretations.

* Win.

I’ve kicked over a welcome package (Rule 2499) for you. This should give you 
enough shinies to put forward several proposals and calls for judgement, if it 
catches your fancy to do so.

Note that by a strict reading of the rules, that action did not work - this is 
a known issue and proposals are in flight to fix that problem. We have an 
established agreement to keep records as if that the actions work anyways, and 
I plan to ratify the results retroactively once the rules are fixed. Reading up 
on the history of this problem might be interesting if you have interest in how 
the rules function.

-o



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Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Aris Merchant]

Welcome to Agora! I hope you enjoy it here.

-Aris

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:35 AM, ATMunn .  wrote:
> Hey! I'm ATMunn.
> I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded
> interesting, so I joined.
>
> I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I have no
> idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
> But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm sure you
> all can help me learn the ropes.
>
> I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so you
> can pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away though
> if I'm busy).

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[ATMunn .]

I like and use Discord, but I'd take IRC any day over Discord.

Still, I wouldn't oppose the idea of using both.

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> I strongly oppose this, because the benefit of IRC is the ability for each
> user to choose their client.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> > On Sep 21, 2017, at 11:14 AM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:
> >
> > Maybe we could switch to Slack/Discord.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > When I am on my computer, I am normally logged in, but while I am on, I
> have seen little activity.
> > 
> > Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> > p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
> >
> >
> >
> > > On Sep 21, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Welcome ATMunn!
> > >
> > > I haven't been to the IRC channel in quite a while, are people still
> using it much?
> > > I enjoyed doing so but activity died down there over a year ago so I
> stopped checking.
> > >
> > > -G.
> > >
> > > On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, ATMunn . wrote:
> > >> Hey! I'm ATMunn.
> > >> I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded
> interesting, so I joined.
> > >>
> > >> I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I
> have no idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
> > >> But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm
> sure you all can help me learn the ropes.
> > >>
> > >> I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so
> you can pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away
> though if I'm busy).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

I strongly oppose this, because the benefit of IRC is the ability for each user 
to choose their client.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Sep 21, 2017, at 11:14 AM, Cuddle Beam  wrote:
> 
> Maybe we could switch to Slack/Discord.
> 
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus 
>  wrote:
> When I am on my computer, I am normally logged in, but while I am on, I have 
> seen little activity.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> > On Sep 21, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Welcome ATMunn!
> >
> > I haven't been to the IRC channel in quite a while, are people still using 
> > it much?
> > I enjoyed doing so but activity died down there over a year ago so I 
> > stopped checking.
> >
> > -G.
> >
> > On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, ATMunn . wrote:
> >> Hey! I'm ATMunn.
> >> I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded 
> >> interesting, so I joined.
> >>
> >> I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I have 
> >> no idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
> >> But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm sure 
> >> you all can help me learn the ropes.
> >>
> >> I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so you 
> >> can pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away 
> >> though if I'm busy).
> >>
> >>
> >
> 
> 



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Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Cuddle Beam]

Maybe we could switch to Slack/Discord.

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Publius Scribonius Scholasticus <
p.scribonius.scholasti...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> When I am on my computer, I am normally logged in, but while I am on, I
> have seen little activity.
> 
> Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
> p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> > On Sep 21, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Kerim Aydin 
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Welcome ATMunn!
> >
> > I haven't been to the IRC channel in quite a while, are people still
> using it much?
> > I enjoyed doing so but activity died down there over a year ago so I
> stopped checking.
> >
> > -G.
> >
> > On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, ATMunn . wrote:
> >> Hey! I'm ATMunn.
> >> I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded
> interesting, so I joined.
> >>
> >> I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I
> have no idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
> >> But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm sure
> you all can help me learn the ropes.
> >>
> >> I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so
> you can pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away
> though if I'm busy).
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Publius Scribonius Scholasticus]

When I am on my computer, I am normally logged in, but while I am on, I have 
seen little activity.

Publius Scribonius Scholasticus
p.scribonius.scholasti...@gmail.com



> On Sep 21, 2017, at 10:07 AM, Kerim Aydin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Welcome ATMunn!
> 
> I haven't been to the IRC channel in quite a while, are people still using it 
> much?
> I enjoyed doing so but activity died down there over a year ago so I stopped 
> checking.
> 
> -G.
> 
> On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, ATMunn . wrote:
>> Hey! I'm ATMunn.
>> I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded 
>> interesting, so I joined.
>> 
>> I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I have no 
>> idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
>> But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm sure you 
>> all can help me learn the ropes.
>> 
>> I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so you 
>> can pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away though 
>> if I'm busy).
>> 
>> 
> 



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Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Kerim Aydin]

Welcome ATMunn!

I haven't been to the IRC channel in quite a while, are people still using it 
much?
I enjoyed doing so but activity died down there over a year ago so I stopped 
checking.

-G.

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017, ATMunn . wrote:
> Hey! I'm ATMunn.
> I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded 
> interesting, so I joined.
> 
> I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I have no 
> idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
> But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm sure you 
> all can help me learn the ropes.
> 
> I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so you can 
> pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away though if 
> I'm busy).
> 
>

Re: DIS: New player, just registered

[Cuddle Beam]

Welcome Atmunn!

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 3:35 PM, ATMunn .  wrote:

> Hey! I'm ATMunn.
> I discovered Agora a little while back, and just decided it sounded
> interesting, so I joined.
>
> I've seen some of the messages that have been so far, and honestly I have
> no idea what's going on, or what to do. :P
> But it seems like there's a really friendly community here, so I'm sure
> you all can help me learn the ropes.
>
> I've also joined the IRC channel. I'm usually quite active on IRC, so you
> can pretty much always contact me there (I may not respond right away
> though if I'm busy).
>