Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-25 Thread Michael Richardson
Toerless Eckert wrote: > Could as well simply be a function which buffers flood-messages over a > period of e.g.: 60 seconds and coalesces them together, so it's > transparent to the originators (loose coupling). > So, now i have a single flood-message with multiple objectives,

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-25 Thread Michael Richardson
Toerless Eckert wrote: > On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 08:33:43PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: >> >> Brian E Carpenter wrote: > I need to >> understand epochs a bit better. I wonder whether an epoch > boundary >> should define when session-id repetition becomes OK (even if >

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-25 Thread Toerless Eckert
On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 08:33:43PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: > > Brian E Carpenter wrote: > > I need to understand epochs a bit better. I wonder whether an epoch > > boundary should define when session-id repetition becomes OK (even if > > highly improbable). There's a

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-25 Thread Toerless Eckert
On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 04:57:21PM -0400, Michael Richardson wrote: > > What I don’t understand is why the signature then needs to be encoded > > as part of the objective. Why can’t I sign a combination of objectives > > that are only valid as that combination? > > I think it could

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-24 Thread Michael Richardson
Brian E Carpenter wrote: > I need to understand epochs a bit better. I wonder whether an epoch > boundary should define when session-id repetition becomes OK (even if > highly improbable). There's a practical argument for that: a good > implementation will cache obsolete

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-24 Thread Brian E Carpenter
On 25-Aug-22 08:57, Michael Richardson wrote: Carsten Bormann wrote: > That is getting closer to my question “what does it mean for > (something) to be signed”? > Apparently, this is a statement from an initiator, valid within the > session-id, optionally scoped to the

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-24 Thread Michael Richardson
Carsten Bormann wrote: > That is getting closer to my question “what does it mean for > (something) to be signed”? > Apparently, this is a statement from an initiator, valid within the > session-id, optionally scoped to the locator option, and expressed in > the objective.

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-24 Thread Michael Richardson
The use case that led me to start some of this discussion was that of using Information Centric Networking in emergency situations. A key observation that many have made is that backup/emergency systems need constant maintenance and testing, and if they aren't used regularly then they tend to

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-24 Thread Carsten Bormann
On 2022-08-24, at 19:20, Toerless Eckert wrote: > > data-to-be-signed = [session-id, initiator, ?locator-option, objective ] That is getting closer to my question “what does it mean for (something) to be signed”? Apparently, this is a statement from an initiator, valid within the

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-24 Thread Toerless Eckert
All for it, if we agree on the challenges with it (which i think are "easily" solved). My use-case is signing of objectives in flood-messages doing service announcements, e.g.: with my DNS-SD compatible approach (or any other approach). 1) We want the flooded message to be protected against

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-24 Thread Sheng Jiang
>If that's the case, we are on the wrong track. Should we be discussing >signing GRASP objectives, rather than messages? Agreed. We can work on a mechanism that can sign objectives first. Later, if there were use cases that signed objectives were not sufficient, we can define a flood message.

Re: [Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-23 Thread Michael Richardson
Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 23-Aug-22 21:56, Toerless Eckert wrote: >> Agreed. My opininion is that the mandatory-to-verify is not at the >> level of the flood-message, but at the objective definition level. > If that's the case, we are on the wrong track. Should we be

[Anima] Signing GRASP objectives [Was: Extending GRASP messages and signing GRASP multicasts]

2022-08-23 Thread Brian E Carpenter
On 23-Aug-22 21:56, Toerless Eckert wrote: Agreed. My opininion is that the mandatory-to-verify is not at the level of the flood-message, but at the objective definition level. If that's the case, we are on the wrong track. Should we be discussing signing GRASP objectives, rather than