[apple-crop] Frost protection via overhead sprinklers made mattersworse?

[Con.Traas]

Hello Rye,
I am not very expert in this, as I don't use the system, so hopefully somebody 
else can add more. Regarding the ice and icicles, these would not necessarily 
mean you had a problem, as long as there was a coating of unfrozen water on 
them at all times. This would prevent the ice from dropping below freezing 
point. The fact that the water turned off could be a problem though, as then 
there would have been no more unfrozen water, and the ice (and buds encased 
therein) would drop to the ambient temperature.
4gph sprinklers might not be adequate I suspect, or would not protect against a 
more severe frost (it depends too on how close they are spaced). When I looked 
into getting frost-protection irrigation for my orchards, the water use would 
have been many times (perhaps 6 or 8 times from memory) what I would have 
needed for soil mositure deficit irrigation only. I am afriad that I can't shed 
light on what a good rate would be, but I bet someone else here can.
The good news is I would be very surprised if your trees were damaged by the 
ice.
Con Traas
Ireland



From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net on behalf of Rye Hefley
Sent: Sun 02/02/2014 17:01
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: [apple-crop] Frost protection via overhead sprinklers made 
mattersworse?



Hello,

So last night there was a forecast for 29° for early this morning.  Frost NOT 
in the forecast.

So I decided the forecast could change to frost while I was sleeping or the 
forecasters could miss it so I scheduled the sprinklers. This was my first 
attempt at frost protection as this is the first producing year for the orchard.

First concern:  I set the time too short and the sprinklers turned off at 6:30 
(worst possible time). Don't ask me what I was thinking when came up with the 
duration, though I have degree in math, I don't have one in arithmetic. So it 
was off for an hour before I discovered it and turned it back on.

Second concern:  using 4 gallon/hour micro sprinklers that produce a thick 
mist, when I went out there at 7:30 the trees (flowers, leaves, wood, set 
fruit) were encased in 1/4" ice and icicles.

So I think maybe the 4GPH nozzles deliver too little water for frost protection 
and just made it worse. Also being off for the worse possible hour made it 
"worser" still.

What would be your assessment on the damage I did this year? (Fortunately only 
one variety that I care much about. The others haven't bloomed yet so no water 
on those.) Will the trees survive the ice? Will the fruit that already set be 
OK? Kiss the flowers goodbye? Will the new buds make it?

If 4GPH is not sufficient, in the future what would be a better delivery rate. 
(Assuming I could avoid the arithmetic error from now on.)

Thanks for your insights.

Rye Hefley
So Cal
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Re: [apple-crop] Stripping Leaders on apple

[Con.Traas]

Hi Ellen. Nice video Win.

In Ireland we have used it in winter also, but it is hard work (rough on
the hands), so limited to shoots produced in the last season. Gives less
grow-back than pruning I believe. Probably less axillary buds left, and
maybe less young tissue to produce adventitious buds?

Con Traas

 

 

Ellen, we use it most for suckers and stiping leaders in June. When they
are pulled off they do not grow back.

Here is a You tube video of striping leaders on young apple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddP7cbCiLR4

Best,

Win

 

On Jan 28, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Ellen  wrote:





Does anyone have experience pruning by ripping branches, as opposed to
clipping or lopping? Just read about the Wafler's using this method
(American FruitGrower, Feb. 2014.).  We've always done a bit of it,
especially upright shoots when checking the orchard for other things
(i.e. without pruning tools at hand.)  Just wondered if there have been
any long-term deleterious effects ?  It's obvious that upper body
strength plays into the equation, but is there a limit on the size of
branch that is removed by ripping?



-- 
Ellen McAdam
McDougal Orchards LLc
201 Hanson Ridge Road
Springvale, ME  04083
207-324-5054
www.mcdougalorchards.com  

 

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Re: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size

[Con.Traas]

Hello Vincent,
Did you control for tree size, by means of, for instance, calculating yield per 
trunk cross sectional area. If you did not, then your bigger trees, which by 
definition became bigger because they were more vigorous, might be expected to 
carry larger fruits (even if Total fruits per tree is greater (but not too much 
greater)), by virtue of their  vigorous nature.
Con



From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net on behalf of Vincent Philion
Sent: Mon 13/01/2014 17:12
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: [apple-crop] Late summer drop and fruit size


Hello, I'm analyzing some data and I have seemingly contradictory results. I'm 
hoping someone can comment and make sense of this: 

For a number of randomly selected trees, fruit drop was recorded starting late 
summer until harvest. For each tree, we recorded total fruit drop (and weight), 
harvested fruit (and weight) and the total (drop + harvest). As I was looking 
at the data, I noticed average harvested fruit size (weight/number) was related 
to Total fruits per tree... Nothing strange, until I realized harvested fruit 
size INCREASED with Total fruit number on tree. As if the fruit dropping left 
more energy for the remaining fruits to grow?

I was expecting harvested fruit size to be smaller on trees that had more total 
fruit, not the other way around.  

I'm not sure this late natural fruit drop can be compared to very late hand 
thinning, but does anyone know if fruit size increase can be linked to late 
thinning (notwithstanding total yield that can go down)?

Maybe this is "normal"?

Any comment welcome!

Vincent





 





Vincent Philion,M.Sc. agr. Microbiologiste

Phytopathologiste pomiculture 








Institut de recherche et de développement en agro-environnement

Research and Development Institute for the Agri-Environment




www.irda.qc.ca  




Centre de recherche

335, Rang des Vingt-Cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 0G7




vincent.phil...@irda.qc.ca




Bureau: 450 653-7368 poste 350

Cellulaire: 514-623-8275

Skype: VENTURIA

Télécopie: 450 653-1927 




Verger expérimental

330, Rang des vingt-cinq Est

Saint-Bruno-de-Montarville (Québec) J3V 4P6

Téléphone et télécopieur : 450 653-8375

Local pesticide: 450-653-7608







Pour nous trouver, cliquer sur le lien:

Laboratoire 
 

Verger 

 




Fiers héritiers du travail des frères Saint-Gabri : 
http://arboretum8gabrielis.wordpress.com 
 




Like most of the data I deal with, I'm best described as either "zero inflated 
Poisson", or "zero inflated negative binomial". Anything but "Normal".




Un expert est une personne qui a fait toutes les erreurs qui peuvent être 
faites dans un domaine très étroit. 

~ Niels Bohr




C'est pas parce qu'ils sont nombreux à avoir tort qu'ils ont raison...

~ Coluche




To call in the statistician after the experiment is done may be no more than 
asking him to perform a post-mortem examination: he may be able to say what the 
experiment died of.

~ Sir Ronald Aylmer Fisher




The plural of anecdote is not data.

~ Roger Brinner




The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not ensure 
that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data.

~ John Tukey




Prediction is difficult, especially of the future. 

~ Mark Twain (also attributed to Niels Bohr and Yogi Berra) 




There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

~ Mark Twain or Disraeli




Without deviation from the norm, Progress is not possible.

~ Frank Zappa




If you don't know where you are going, you will wind up somewhere else.

~ Yogi Berra




You can see a lot just by looking.

~ Yogi Berra




Poor, but proudly at the highest step I'm qualified for.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Principle




Inhibiteur de rodomontades depuis 1992.




Ce que l'on conçoit bien s'énonce clairement, et les mots pour le dire arrivent 
aisément.

~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux




Vingt fois sur le métier remettez votre ouvrage

~ Nicolas Boileau-Despréaux




Keep your stick on the ice

~ The Red & Green show




Quid quid latine dictum sit, altim videtur.

~ Stéphane Laporte




Audi alteram partem

Qui potest capere capiat 




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Re: [apple-crop] record yields

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

A very interesting topic. Around here our record yields are about half
of what you are reporting. However, we too can go further I think.
Quality is important for returns also though.

I remember seeing research from Holland quite a few years ago, for
Holland, which showed little quality change (as measured by soluble
solids) when yields of Jonagold went to about 65 metric tons per
hectare. From there to 85 metric tons, as yield increased, soluble
solids dropped. It would indicate that for that particular system,
climate, variety etc., some sort of plateau was being reached.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

Ireland.

 



From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Tom Auvil
Sent: 21 November 2013 15:07
To: 'Apple-crop discussion list'
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] record yields

 

World record yield? Not certain. Do know that the yield benchmarks are
moving up in the Northwest. Some growers now manage Gala for an average
yield of 100 MT/Ha, and have a target benchmark of 130 MT/Ha. In the
2012 crop many blocks of all different varieties approached the 100
MT/Ha expected yield. At the WSU fruit school in 2008, the standard
yield in the economic presentations were 50 MT/Ha with a target of 70
MT/ Ha.   

 

The highest sustained yield discussed in the Northwest has been Granny
Smith on Mark rootstock at 140 MT/Ha or ~140 bins with 900 pounds of
fruit per bin. The rootstock influences the spur density down the limbs,
so Mark has been the standard for productivity. The replant tolerant
Geneva rootstocks such as G.41, G.935, G.214, G.210, G.30 have the crop
density equal to or better than Mark.

 

The discussion of yield is evolving from total yield to yield of fruit
with high and consistent consumer acceptance. Highly productive
varieties such as Fuji and HoneyCrisp may need to implement rigorous
crop load management by counting spurs at pruning, flowers at bloom and
fruit in June to cap yields at 80 bins or less, in consistent, full
canopy blocks. The goal is to have crisp, juicy, great flavor fruit
every bite.  

 

Tom and Rose Auvil

PO Box 408

Orondo, WA 98843

 

tau...@nwi.net

 

From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of
dbals...@mnsi.net
Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2013 1:28 PM
To: 'Apple-crop discussion list'
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock

 

Different subject ... does anyone know what the current world record for
apple production /acre is . The last record I have ever heard quoted was
a7 year old block of Granny smith apples from New Zealand around 130
metric tonne per hectare in the early 1990's.does anyone know where a
person might source such info or r what the current record might be ?

 

Thanks 

Doug

 

Doug and Leslie 

519-738-4819

 

The Fruit Wagon - Quality Fruit and Flowers in Season

www.thefruitwagon.com


  

 

From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [
mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 12:19 PM
To: Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock

 

I've read that V1 is resistant to fire blight.  See: 
http://www.plant.uoguelph.ca/treefruit/outreach/files/PerformanceandAvai
labilityoftheVinelandAppleRootstocks-Dec2006.pdf

 

On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:20 AM, Deborah I. Breth 
wrote:

Is V1 resistant or susceptible to fire blight?

 

 

Deborah I. Breth

Cornell Cooperative Extension - Lake Ontario Fruit Program

Team Leader and IPM Specialist in Tree Fruit and Berries

12690 Rt. 31

Albion, NY   14411

 

phone: 585.798.4265 x 36  

mobile:  585.747.6039

fax:  585.798.5191

 

email: d...@cornell.edu

LOF website  

 

From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:
apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Huffman, Leslie
(OMAFRA)
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 11:02 AM
To: Apple-crop discussion list; Jon Clements


Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock

 

I agree with Jon, V1 definitely has more vigour. 

 

Leslie 


Leslie Huffman
519-738-1256
leslie.huff...@ontario.ca 


 

From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [
mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Hugh Thomas
Sent: October-30-13 2:47 PM
To: Jon Clements; Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Vineland 1 rootstock

 

Thanks Jon,

I did order some V1 trees from Cameron yesterday and I'm glad you told
me about the spacing, as I was heading for 4 feet.   I''ll plant 5x12
and give you a report as the next few seasons go by. 

Hugh

 

On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Jon Clements 
wrote:

Hugh, see this for a start:

 

http://www.extension.org/pages/60856/apple-rootstock-info:-v1#.UnFOtJRga
9U

 

Several growers here in Massachusetts have planted Honeycrisp (and maybe
some other varieties?) on V

Re: [apple-crop] Rotten to the Core: What pick-your-own apple orchards tell us about the American economy.

[Con.Traas]

Hello Hugh,

I would say it is worth the hassle, if the price you get is good. Making
sure the apples are really ripe so they come off easily lessens the
damage. Perhaps waiting until the trees are a little more sturdy would
be an option.

In our own case we over-pick about 10 days earlier, and then do the
U-pick in the apples we have left behind.

Con

 

 

I'm going to reply to this, mainly to see if it works, as I'm new on
here.  

 

I have a question for anyone with a u-pick orchard.  Do the kids do a
lot damage to the trees and fruit, making heavy supervision necessary?
I just planted a small high density orchard of about an acre and a half.
Would a small u-pick operation be worth the hassles?  Thanks for any
input,

Hugh

 

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[apple-crop] Rotten to the Core: What pick-your-own apple orchards tell us about the American economy.

[Con.Traas]

Hi Jon and friends,
I get the feeling the article or author is a bit mixed up, and does not
know exactly what point is the main one. However, there is no doubt that
all things American make their way across to this side of the pond
sooner or later, and demand for U-pick apples (or Pick Your Own as we
call it here) is much greater than ever before, so in that way we are
following in your footsteps.
Not everyone that comes to pick is a yuppy though, and mostly it is just
nice innocent entertainment for families with younger children.
Personally I think that if we as growers engage with the children, these
people will have happy memories of apples when they grow older, and
hopefully better eating habits than they would otherwise have.
On the issue of cost, I think it is probably more expensive to organise
for people to come and do U-pick than simply to go out with your orchard
crew and pick the apples yourself.
Con Traas

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Re: [apple-crop] sulfur fungicides and beneficials

[Con.Traas]

Hello Doug,

I think it is commonly accepted that when you spray sulphur on a routine
basis, mites will not quickly pose a problem, because as well as
suppressing the predatory mites, the sulphur also suppresses the pest
mite species. However, it is when you stop using the sulphur (perhaps
next season?) that the pest mite species can multiply quickly in the
absence of the predatory mites.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Ireland

Twitter: @theapplefarmer

 



From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Balsillie
Sent: 31 May 2012 13:11
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: [apple-crop] sulfur fungicides and beneficials

 

Anyone have experience with switching to sulfur for apple powdery
mildew?  Trying to keep costs down since we lost our crop, and having
too much mildew show up.  Sulfur is cheaper than the other mildew
fungicides, but how quickly will we get into mite problems, if sulfur
kills my beneficials?

 

Doug

 

 

 

Doug and Leslie Balsillie

793 County Road 50 East, R. R. 1

Harrow, Ontario

N0R 1G0

519-738-4819

 

 

Home of The Fruit Wagon - Quality Fruit and Flowers in Season

www.thefruitwagon.com


  

 

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[apple-crop] Damaging freeze hits the Midwest U.S.

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
It is often amazing to see similar things happening in parts of the
United States and Europe at the same time. As was the case with parts of
the US, those of us in Ireland and Britain had a very early spring,
brought about by very warm weather (by our standards) in March.
The lovely spell of weather, while welcomed by the public, was always of
concern to fruit growers, for fear of what might follow it.
Thus far, the weather since the nice spell in March has been miserable,
giving poor pollinating conditions, and there have been sub-freezing
temperatures at night, but in general not quite cold enough to damage
crop potential.
On our own farm we were a little unfortunate, as on Saturday night last
we had a more severe frost than recorded on other fruit farms in
Ireland, and we suffered damage that will diminish the crop volume.
Probably the worst crop hit was raspberry, where it is very difficult to
find undamaged flowers, which though still closed, are blackened inside.
On the other hand, plums, which are already setting, having commenced
flowering about a month ago, seem unaffected, assuming that the set will
be good enough, given the poor weather at flowering, which meant not
many pollinating insects were at work.
For apples, damage seems to vary with variety and location. Lower
pockets on the farm are much more adversely affected, with the
likelihood that the recorded minus 2.1 degrees at the weather station
was an underestimate (or should I say overestimate) of the temperature
in the cooler hollows.
Worst affected varieties are Karmijn de Sonnaville and Bramley's
Seedling, which I know both from assessing the damage and previous
history, are rather susceptible. In the cooler areas Jonagold and
Jonagored as well as Topaz are showing some damage, but still have the
capacity for reasonable crops if set is good. In these same cooler
spots, Elstar and clones show least damage, being a little later
flowering, and also, I believe, a little more tolerant.
Yesterday (the day after the frost) we made an emergency application of
Regalis, which you in the US call Apogee, with the hope of getting
maximum set in the most frost-affected areas. Other parts of the farm
will probably get some later in the season, just for growth control.
One interesting phenomenon that I await with interest is the formation
of new flowers in the Bramley's Seedling. This is something that I have
seen happening in Bramley's in frosty years in the past, but never in
any of the other 60 varieties I grow. These flower buds form on the tips
of new emerging shoots in response to frost, especially on younger wood,
rather than on older fruiting spurs. Typically each bud has about 2
flowers, which go on to open and flower about two weeks later than the
main blossom, but which, despite the absence of pollen from other
varieties, seem to set well. They typically result in smaller fruit,
obviously maturing later. In years of a complete wipe-out of blossom
they are a welcome feature, but in years when they are stimulated, but
survival of the main blossom is adequate for a crop, they are a
nuisance, and are sometimes removed by growers. This year, I think I
will be glad to see them.
With best wishes from what is a wet and cold Ireland this morning,
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
www.theapplefarm.com

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Re: [apple-crop] spray program software

[Con.Traas]

Because the chemtable in not password protected, you may be able to amend 
tracApple for your own situation. I certainly did, and find it very good.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir,

Ireland.

 



From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net 
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Nickerson, Garth 
(DAAF/MAAP)
Sent: 01 March 2012 00:38
To: 'dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com'; Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] spray program software

 

Anyone know of a Canadian version of this software or a similar product? Thanks,

Garth 

 

Garth Nickerson, P.Ag. / agr.

Crop Development Specialist Nursery/Tree Fruits

Spécialiste du développement des cultures Pépinières/arbes fruitieres

Agriculture, Aquaculture and Fisheries / Agriculture, Aquaculture et Pêches

P.O. Box 6000

Fredericton, New Brunswick / Nouveau-Brunswick 

E3B 5H1

Canada 

Tel/Tél: 506-453-2108

Fax/Tél: 506-453-7978

Cell: 506-461-9628 

email/courriel: garth.nicker...@gnb.ca 

Website: http://www.gnb.ca/0027/Index.htm

 

 

From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net 
[mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of 
dmnor...@royaloakfarmorchard.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 29, 2012 8:15 PM
To: Apple-crop discussion list
Subject: Re: [apple-crop] spray program software

 

 

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[apple-crop] "Pommier, Le Mur Fruiter"

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
Point 5 is in my mind probably the most vital to get right. If this does
not work the system will not work.

Quote:

"5) This shearing shortly before solstice allows for short extension of
growth. As solstice is passed, days begin to become shorter. As days
become shorter, tree is keyed to shift from vegetative growth to
reproductive, and so extension growth is limited and conversion of
growth to fruiting bud initiation begins.

5/ yes that's the explanation from Louis Lorette who did a theorization
of summer pruning in early 20th. In our case I am afraid that we did a
more empirical work, designing trials to find the best pruning date in
our conditions. The 10 leaves date, seems to work for France."

I have been looking at summer pruning for many years, and in our part of
the World, a 10 leaves point of pruning, or just around June 21st, does
not work. In fact, for most varieties, early August, perhaps even the
second week of August, is the appropriate time. The date at which a
shoot can be headed with reasonable expectation of forming a fruit bud
on resultant brindle seems to depend on crop load, soil nutrition and
soil type (which can vary across a field or orchard), water
availability, apple variety, use of gibberellin inhibitor (like
prohexadione calcium) and then something like an "Indian Summer" (an
unusually warm spell in mid August) can cause re-growth of buds which
you would expect to set fruit buds, resulting in turn in no shoot tip
fruit buds.

What I am attempting to put across is that using mechanical pruning with
this system is not without difficulty, and what may work well in France
may not work so well elsewhere.

A most interesting conversation; many thanks.

Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Cahir
Ireland



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[apple-crop] Tree height v. row spacing

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
What everyone thus far has said is relevant. Jon's rule-of-thumb of 0.9
x distance from row centre to row centre is good, but not a complete
answer. To get to the bottom of this very difficult question requires
information like light intensity (the more intensity the better the
canopy penetration), latitude (determines average angle of incident
light, and consequently shading effects) and proposed width of actual
tree row from edge to edge, to name just three factors.
Also, it should be borne in mind that in reality most growers do not
wish to achieve maximum yield, but rather a balance between maximum
quality and yield, and after a certain point, I have no doubt that
raising yield further results in lower quality (in terms of soluble
solids/sugars in the fruit, in terms of fruit size, and to an extent,
fruit colour).
Unfortunately I do not have a formula to offer. However, I have been in
orchards in different parts of the World, and can say with certainty
that one size does not fit all.
In my own experience, I have never seen light intensity that matched
that in the apple growing area around Hawkes Bay in New Zealand. There I
saw orchards with what I would have considered trees which would not
allow for enough light penetration. But the light intensity was such
that it did penetrate, and what would usually be unproductive inner
parts of the tree had apples and leaves, and indeed I was told by my
host that the particular orchard of Granny Smith had yielded 150 tons
per ha in the past, and I could well believe it.
When I visited northern Italy, I saw the most perfect trees trained to a
fruit wall, and they must have been perfect 0.9's; just like Jon is
suggesting. It was self-evident that light would get to all parts of the
canopy, that there would be no unproductive inner canopy due to the
narrowness of the tree hedge, and that the balance of yield and quality
would be excellent.
Having looked at a similar tree wall of about 3.5 metres tall in Belgium
close to harvest time, I was disappointed to note that the apples
growing on the lowest 50 cm of the wall were poorly coloured and only of
juicing quality. In time, this part of the canopy would be lost due to
less than optimum light penetration, and that told be that the tree rows
were 50cm taller than ideal, as the top 50cm was shading the bottom
50cm. Put simply, in my opinion, for that orchard in Belgium, the 2.5
metres of productive wall should start at 50 cm above the ground, and
finish at 3 metres tall; not at 3.5m.
In my own orchard in Ireland at more than 52 degrees N, I can only
manage a productive canopy of about 2 to 2.2 metres tall (when rows are
3.25 to 3.5 metres apart). If I go taller, then shading of bases becomes
a problem again. One of my favourite pastimes is to go into the orchard
on a sunny day (we get more cloudy days than sunny ones), and look at
where the shadows fall. I know I am correct in my assessment of maximum
height for the quality I want to grow, given the light intensity I have
to work with.
So Art, it is ultimately up to you; you should have an idea of your own
situation, and the quality of fruit you want to grow. Experience may in
time tell you that you pushed a bit too far, or that you did not go tall
enough. I would not recommend deciding your tree height and then your
row centres. I would prefer to decide on row centres and thickness of
the canopy (to suit machinery, operations etc.) and then work out how
high the trees should be allowed to grow.
Have fun.

Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Cahir
Ireland


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Re: [apple-crop] Vertical Scaffold Spacing

[Con.Traas]

I agree with Terence and Dave,

Their experience and concerns have been borne out here in Ireland over the past 
number of years, where it has been survival of the more dense (orchards rather 
than orchardists). Obviously there are limits, but in our own case, for our 
single line orchards we have opted for 4 ft. x 11ft., and we have found this a 
good spacing for the more vigorous Elstar variety (more vigorous than Golden 
Delicious or Jonagold at least). We do not grow the trees as high as at lower 
latitudes (more mutual shading from taller trees when you come this far North), 
and have found that a limit of about 5 ½ to 6 feet height of cropping wall 
works well. In practice, this wall commences about 2 feet above the ground, and 
finishes at 7.5 feet, facilitating all harvesting and pruning from ground level.

Con Traas

 

 



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RE: Apple-Crop: Useful review on colony collapse disorder

[Con.Traas]

Hello Art,

Just now getting to reply to this email.

Mangers cider is made at a plant about 6 miles from where I live. In
Ireland it is known as Bulmers, but everywhere else in the World it is
sold as Magners, as the Bulmers name is owned internationally by the HP
Bulmer company in England, whereas the Irish "Bulmers" is made by C&C.

I understand annual production is in the region of 80 million litres, a
large proportion of which is consumed in Ireland, where this is the
dominant cider in the market, holding about 80% I understand.

Each year in the region of 25 to 30,000 tons of apples are bought from
Irish growers to make the juice for this cider. If there are not enough
apples in Ireland, imports are sometimes used, and this was especially
true a number of years ago when Magners had a very strong sales spike in
the UK, due mainly to very good advertising, which lifted the entire
cider market as well as their own brand.

As you can guess, 30,000 tons is not enough apples to make 80 million
litres, and in reality about one third of what is in each can or bottle
is directly from fresh apples. The rest is made up from apple juice
concentrate, syrup, and water. The main apples used are Bramley's
Seedling, Dabinette and other cider varieties, plus whatever other cull
apples are available.

As industrial ciders go, I would guess that Magners would be very
unusual in using fresh apple juice in their fermentations, as most other
manufacturers work off concentrate, due to the large saving in storage
space in taking the latter route. In terms of taste, Magners is very
much on the sweetened end of the spectrum, but that seems to be what a
lot of consumers want, so who can blame them. It certainly is not an
artisan product, but rather something made by a large-scale
manufacturer, at least by Irish standards.

However, if you are drinking it, perhaps one or two drops in each pint
come from my apples, and I am grateful for you custom.

Con Traas

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelly
Sent: 06 December 2010 15:58
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Useful review on colony collapse disorder

 

Good review of CCD.  We should all pause and consider every time we add
a product to the spray tank.  On a side note I was waiting for a
sandwich in a shop in Hollis NH and was perusing the cooler where they
have some very interesting imported beer and saw and purchased an Irish
cider known as Magners Oringinal.  Even my wife enjoyed it and she is
not one for much beyond wine.  What can Con tell us abut it?

 

Art Kelly

Kelly Orchards

Acton, ME

2010/12/2 Con.Traas 

http://www.lab-times.org/editorial/e_173.html

 

Con Traas,

Life Science Dept.,

University of Limerick.

 

Office SR2-009

Ph. 061 202905

M. 086 6091998

 

 

Apple-Crop: Useful review on colony collapse disorder

[Con.Traas]

http://www.lab-times.org/editorial/e_173.html

 

Con Traas,

Life Science Dept.,

University of Limerick.

 

Office SR2-009

Ph. 061 202905

M. 086 6091998

 

RE: Apple-Crop: Tree Row volume

[Con.Traas]

Hello Art,

I would contend that a well-planned properly filled out orchard of dwarf
trees (say from seventh year) has just as many leaves as the majority of
orchards with standards. If this were not the case the dwarf orchard
would not be able to out-yield the standard orchard in tons of crop per
acre, which the dwarf orchard clearly is able to do. I think that TRV is
over simplistic and really only useful when considering younger dwarf
orchards where the volume has not filled out, or older orchards with
missing trees etc., or perhaps badly planned orchards where the space is
not filled due to trees being spaced too widely.

I would certainly hope that new pesticides are researched on fully
filled-out dwarf orchards, and not on trees in their second or third
leaf.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Ireland



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Arthur Kelly
Sent: 07 October 2010 02:55
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Apple-Crop: Tree Row volume

 

I need to get it off my chest.  Sorry everyone.  If research on older
pesticides was done on standard trees and semi and dwarf trees require
less material due to less canopy and newer pesticides were researched on
small trees why wouldn't larger trees require more material per acre?
Reverse tree row volume if you will.

 

Art Kelly

Kelly Orchards

Acton, ME

RE: Apple-Crop: organophosphates

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

In the light of the scientific doubt cast on this study on a link
between organophosphates and ADHD, I recall a much more robust study
published in The Lancet about two years ago, linking ADHD with food
colourants. To my mind this also dovetails with anecdotal evidence of
short-term effects of consumption of certain sweets and carbonated
drinks on the behaviour of children suffering with ADHD.

However, to my recollection, after a short while, publicity from this
study also died down (unfortunately).

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

Ireland

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of John Henderson
Sent: 19 May 2010 21:07
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: organophosphates

 

A Facebook friend posted with concern the article on OPs. In response I
paraphrased Richard's bragging paragraph.  The following comment thanked
me for the info with the note "I wondered why apples were not on the
list." So with this limited evidence, I think the positive approach
might work -- except it looks like this controversy may quickly be
forgotten.

 

John Henderson

Sage Hen Farm

Lodi, NY

 

On May 18, 2010, at 9:50 AM, Richard Weinzierl wrote:

 

All,

Let me confess to being a research and extension person and not a
commercial apple or peach grower.  I do, however, spend a lot of time
working with commercial growers.  With that disclaimer, I'll offer a few
thoughts.

I agree with the sentiments that the recently reported research on OPs
and ADHD seems preliminary and somewhat flawed.   That said, folks,
we've been reducing use of OPs on apples in the US since FQPA in 1996.
The regulations have been driven by both scientific and emotional
concerns that OPs as residues on foods present more risks than the EPA
finds acceptable.  Let's admit that there has been an underlying concern
out there for some time, and it is not all driven by fanatics or
anti-pesticide groups.  After we admit that to ourselves .

. let's brag on the fact that we have responded to the concerns and
the regulations by reducing OP use.  Penncap-M is no longer used at all;
Lorsban is used only in ways that should result in NO residues on apples
or peaches; Guthion is not used on peaches and is nearly gone from our
spray programs in apples; and Imidan is used far less than it used to
be.  We might be wise to spend only a minimum amount of effort
criticizing this particular study and instead tout our progress.  Such
an approach is likely to be more beneficial for marketing and customer
relations than any organized dispute of this particular research.  

I realize that successive rounds of investigations will target newer
groups of insecticides, and we'll have to face truths and rumors that
result from them as well.  For now, energy might be best spent on making
our progress very evident to the public.  The alternative -- the idea
that organic produce is the only answer -- will certainly not meet the
needs of the nation's or the world's consumers any time in the
foreseeable future.

Rick Weinzierl



Richard Weinzierl, Professor and Extension Entomologist
Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois
S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 South Goodwin Avenue
Urbana, IL 61801
weinz...@uiuc.edu, Ph. 217-244-2126

 

RE: Apple-Crop: Dodine and captane fungicides applied during bloom

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
If I remember correctly, the work that I saw showing reduced pollen
germination due to captan was done in vitro (in test tube). Having said
that, Mancozeb performed much better than Captan in such tests, and if I
need to spray for scab during peak flowering, I often opt to use
Mancozeb. However, on continental Europe use of Captan during flowering
is commonplace.
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Cahir
Ireland

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jon Clements
Sent: 26 April 2010 17:19
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Dodine and captane fungicides applied during
bloom

This might be easier for you:

http://fruit.umext.umass.edu/pdf/captanfruitnotes94.pdf




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RE: Apple-Crop: AI nozzles for airblast sprayers

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
I was really surprised to read Mo's comments on the large variation in
applied rates depending only on the material being applied. I get small
variations, but not a doubling or halving as outlined.
I also spray at 75 to 200 psi, (but usually 120-150psi) and use ai and
conventional nozzles, both made by albuz.
There are some useful flow charts at:
http://www.hypropumps.com/FileAttachments/Spray/en-us/SG_TVI_Rate_Chart_
E.pdf
and other general information on TVI nozzles at:
http://www.hypropumps.com/en-us/Products/SprayTips/AirBlast/Cone/TVI_Mod
el_Detail/TVI_Features.htm

I have my sprayer set up with normal (ATR) nozzles directed lower in the
canopy and TVI's higher, as I would expect more drift from the upper
section. The TVI's are certainly more prone to blocking, and this means
being very good about cleaning all filters, but if this is done,
problems are not too common.
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Cahir
Ireland








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RE: Apple-Crop: degree days and apple bloom prediction

[Con.Traas]

Sorry Bill,

Degree days on what degree base?

Con

 

 

In Michigan we have used approximately 284 DD42 from March 1 as the
start point for king bloom on Macs. This is in our Michigan State
University Fruit Management guide E-154, from a chart originally
prepared by Phil Schwallier of MSU.  This is based on pre-1990 weather
data in the Grand Rapids area of Michigan.

 

In recent years we have been getting more DD before March 1so
ignoring what happens before Mar 1 is now becoming problematic.  So, I
generally add on 25 DD42 to the total and use a target of 310 DD42 from
January 1 as the start point for king bloom for Macs.Not sure if
this works for your area.  1/2" green is approx 205 DD42 from March 1,
or 230 DD42 from January 1 with my fudge factor.  

 

Bill Shane

 

 

Apple-Crop: Looking for contact

[Con.Traas]

Does anyone know the current address of Dr. Zhiguo Ju? I am interested
in contacting him about work using stripped corn oil as an anti-scald
treatment on apples.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

Ireland.

Apple-Crop: Other organic-approved chemicals

[Con.Traas]

Hello Dave and all,

Here in Europe potassium bicarbonate is now used as an
organically-approved mildew fungicide. It also appears to have some scab
activity. I do not use it as my apples tend towards lower calcium, and I
do not want to make that worse by adding Potassium, but I wonder if you
use it in the US (and elsewhere in the World).

We also use potassium phosphite against phytophthora diseases, but I am
neither sure of its organic status, nor its efficacy.

Con Traas

Apple-Crop: treatments vs genetic traits

[Con.Traas]

Hello Arthur,

In an ideal world, you are quite correct that resistant varieties
provide more promise, and I am all in favour of using them, either to
grow, or in breeding programs. However, in our biological world, the
disease-resistant tree is always at a disadvantage compared to the
disease organism. This stems purely from the power of numbers. Diseases
such as apple scab have much shorter life cycles, and produce many
millions of spores in a season. The genetic diversity therein (as well
as the ability to mutate) will ultimately result in the loss or
resistance in the tree, more or less in proportion to the area planted
to that tree (or if the same resistance gene is bred into more than one
variety, then the combined area that the resistance gene is planted to),
assuming that other conditions favouring the disease are present.

Here in Ireland the Bramley's Seedling apple was reputed to be
practically resistant to apple scab until about 50 years ago. However, a
new strain of scab, well adapted to this tree emerged, and now the
variety needs as much treatment as any other susceptible variety. The
growing of monocultures of this variety in the past 50 years played a
significant part in the emergence of the new strain in my opinion. Prior
to that, orchards were small (1 acre at most), and planted with only a
few Bramley trees.

So, when we find a resistance gene or genes, because there are so few of
them it is the duty of good growers to protect them. This will mean as
little mono-culture as possible (not our natural disposition), not using
the same gene in every new disease-resistant variety (unfortunately both
conventional and GM breeders have failed in this one), but also using
chemicals before resistance breaks down, to give the disease more than
one hurdle to cross to complete its life cycle and breed.

Therefore, it is really important that we continue to seek out other
controls, biological and chemical. Using them in combination with
resistance, existing controls, and really good management can result in
successful outcomes over the longer term. However, all we need is a few
careless growers not to safeguard the resistance to render all the work
done on resistance breeding (and all the money spent) practically
worthless.

Now I accept that the other trait you mention (cold resistance) is
different, and if this can be bred into a plant, then there is no
selection pressure to overcome it, so no concerns like those mentioned
above would arise. But as usual, we need to assess on a case by case
basis, the likely outcomes of our actions.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Ireland

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Arthur Harvey
Sent: 11 February 2010 22:34
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: treatments vs genetic traits

 

>From my limited experience it appears that finding varieties with
resistant traits is a more promising  way to pursue compared with
treatments.  It is well known that certain strains of Baldwin are
relatively immune to scab---why cannot this genetic trait be worked into
other varieties.  Also, we have a local seedling here in western Maine
which not only resists freezing until the first week of November---and
keeps well---but also sheds insect-damaged apples so that only perfect
ones mature.  Seems like  characteristics that would be useful
elsewhere.  

On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was amended by
lobbyists hired by some manufacturers, working with the so-called
"Organic Trade Association". This will allow synthetic ingredients to be
added to organic-labeled foods.
If this is important to you, please visit my website,
www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org




 

 

 

 

RE: Apple-Crop: FreezePruf?

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
I'm wondering about the differences between these two products. I note
that the freezepruf contains ethylene glycol, which is the active
constituent in anti-freeze, but could it have an effect at the
concentrations that would end up in the plant tissue? What kind of
concentration would end up in the plant tissue anyhow, given that a 2%
solution of ethylene glycol is what is being sprayed?
Does anyone know of these botanists who developed the product? Did they
conduct efficacy trials? How did they decide on the appropriate dose
rates etc? Has there been any peer-reviewed research?
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Cahir
Ireland.




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RE: Apple-Crop: Variety restrictions in European Union?

[Con.Traas]

Hello David,
The guys are correct. There are no restrictions on apple varieties grown
here (except of course GM crops). Cox's Orange Pippin is a great tasting
apple, but was ruined by growers and marketers, thus its popularity with
consumers fell, and so to with retailers. Cox should be a small hard
apple (think 55-65mm or 2 to 2 1/2 inches diameter maximum). It should
carry great flavour. But the shops wanted bigger apples. So excess
fertiliser is applied, giving larger apples, but these rapidly soften,
and are rather tasteless. And as happened with Red Delicious, newer
clones of Cox were chosen, with productivity and colour in mind, but not
flavour.
The real Cox is a rather ugly, small but wonderfully aromatic apple (It
also yields poorly). Modern Cox tend towards the opposite.
So in a sense, the customer is right. It is no longer easy to get Cox,
or at least as he might have known them. But it's not the EU's fault
this time.
Con Traas
Cahir
Ireland
PS. My farm might be a bit far to send that person, as I am on the
neighbouring island of Ireland, rather than in Britain. I only sell Cox
for about two weeks each year, usually around the middle of October.





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RE: Apple-Crop: Apples in Afghanistan

[Con.Traas]

Hello Bill,
Hello Bill,
I too think that it is fantastic work that is being done. I commend
everyone brave enough and good enough to contribute. Growing apples (or
other fruits) is a very satisfying occupation, that can bring enormous
benefit to local communities through the need for labour, team building,
and feeling of well-being in producing something good.
Even in the developed world the lure of easy money in drugs is too much
for many to resist, so the choice must be all the more difficult in a
place like Afghanistan.
Con

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Bill Shoemaker
Sent: 13 January 2010 13:43
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Apples in Afghanistan

I have a colleague who just returned from Afganistan. He was very happy
with his service there. He feels he's contributing to the effort to
build a stable society. They may make more money with drug crops but
they have neigbors who need to eat. 

Bill



>   Happy New Year to all,
>
>   I read an interesting piece on Reuters News
>   yesterday. I see that some more US agricultural
>   advisors will be sent to Afghanistan, though I
>   wonder if it is realistic to suggest to farmers
>   there that nuts and apples will give higher returns
>   than opium. I'm sure that I am preaching to the
>   converted here when I suggest that apple growing is
>   hardly a highly profitable venture.
>
>   Con Traas
>
>
>
>   http://in.reuters.com/article/southAsiaNews/idINIndia-45331820100112
>
>
>
>   KABUL (Reuters) - Interrupted by the occasional
>   whirring of military helicopters overhead, the U.S.
>   agriculture chief sipped pomegranate juice with
>   Afghan farmers, who told him not enough
>   international aid was getting through.
>
>   Wrapping up a three-day visit to Afghanistan on
>   Tuesday, Tom Vilsack met the farmers -- representing
>   pomegranate and apple growers -- at an fruit juice
>   export plant in Kabul, part funded by the United
>   States which has made agriculture the biggest
>   non-security priority in the country.
>
>   Seated outside, the farmers complained of lack of
>   credit facilities -- something Vilsack is looking
>   into -- and problems in the entire farming chain,
>   from acquiring seeds to a lack of refrigeration and
>   getting goods to market during a war.
>
>   "We hear of pledges of funding but we have not seen
>   anything yet," said Haji Ghulam Dastageen, an apple
>   and apricot farmer from Paktia province. "We are
>   looking forward to getting assistance from the
>   international community and from the (agriculture)
>   ministry," he added via a translator.
>
>   Vilsack, who pointed to the U.S.-funded juice
>   factory behind him as proof of U.S. commitment,
>   later announced an additional $20 million in aid to
>   help improve Afghanistan's agriculture ministry
>   deliver services to farmers.
>
>   "After decades of conflict, Afghanistan lacks many
>   of the personnel and knowledge resources needed to
>   deliver much-needed services to its people, more
>   than 80 percent of whom rely on agriculture for
>   wages and sustenance," he said at a news conference
>   announcing the funds.
>
>   Last year, the United States spent about $300
>   million on agriculture projects in Afghanistan and
>   projected spending this year is more than $400
>   million. Vilsack also promised to send more U.S.
>   agricultural advisors.
>
>   The hope is that funds spent bolstering
>   Afghanistan's agriculture ministry will improve
>   delivery of services to the country's farmers and
>   thus boost confidence in central government and draw
>   support away from the Taliban.
>
>   FARMER-TO-FARMER
>
>   A farm owner himself, Vilsack peppered the Afghan
>   farmers with questions from how they got their water
>   to what they needed in terms of credit facilities
>   and packaging to protect goods currently bruised en
>   route to market.
>
>   The United States and other allies are looking at a
>   range of credit options for farmers in the hope they
>   can wean many from growing opium poppy, which fuels
>   the Taliban insurgency.
>
>   The goal is to provide up-front funds for wheat but
>   also higher-value products such as table grapes,
>   nuts and apples in the hope they will get better
>   returns than opium. Afghanistan produces nearly all
>   of the world's opium, used to make heroin.
>
>   "We are looking forward to receiving loans ... we
>   also want low interest," said Haji Yaseen, another
>   apple grower from Paktia province.
>
>   "Farmers everywhere want that," laughed Vilsack, a
>   former governor from the U.S. farming state of Iowa.
>
>   The Obama administration has promised to present a
>   list of credit options to the Afghan agriculture
>   ministry by March. The plan is to offer credit
>   facilities like those given to farmers in the United
>   States, who get low-interest loans.
>
>   "How do you pay for yo

Apple-Crop: Apples in Afghanistan

[Con.Traas]

Happy New Year to all,

I read an interesting piece on Reuters News yesterday. I see that some
more US agricultural advisors will be sent to Afghanistan, though I
wonder if it is realistic to suggest to farmers there that nuts and
apples will give higher returns than opium. I'm sure that I am preaching
to the converted here when I suggest that apple growing is hardly a
highly profitable venture.

Con Traas

 

http://in.reuters.com/article/southAsiaNews/idINIndia-45331820100112

 

KABUL (Reuters) - Interrupted by the occasional whirring of military
helicopters overhead, the U.S. agriculture chief sipped pomegranate
juice with Afghan farmers, who told him not enough international aid was
getting through.

Wrapping up a three-day visit to Afghanistan on Tuesday, Tom Vilsack met
the farmers -- representing pomegranate and apple growers -- at an fruit
juice export plant in Kabul, part funded by the United States which has
made agriculture the biggest non-security priority in the country.

Seated outside, the farmers complained of lack of credit facilities --
something Vilsack is looking into -- and problems in the entire farming
chain, from acquiring seeds to a lack of refrigeration and getting goods
to market during a war.

"We hear of pledges of funding but we have not seen anything yet," said
Haji Ghulam Dastageen, an apple and apricot farmer from Paktia province.
"We are looking forward to getting assistance from the international
community and from the (agriculture) ministry," he added via a
translator.

Vilsack, who pointed to the U.S.-funded juice factory behind him as
proof of U.S. commitment, later announced an additional $20 million in
aid to help improve Afghanistan's agriculture ministry deliver services
to farmers.

"After decades of conflict, Afghanistan lacks many of the personnel and
knowledge resources needed to deliver much-needed services to its
people, more than 80 percent of whom rely on agriculture for wages and
sustenance," he said at a news conference announcing the funds.

Last year, the United States spent about $300 million on agriculture
projects in Afghanistan and projected spending this year is more than
$400 million. Vilsack also promised to send more U.S. agricultural
advisors.

The hope is that funds spent bolstering Afghanistan's agriculture
ministry will improve delivery of services to the country's farmers and
thus boost confidence in central government and draw support away from
the Taliban.

FARMER-TO-FARMER

A farm owner himself, Vilsack peppered the Afghan farmers with questions
from how they got their water to what they needed in terms of credit
facilities and packaging to protect goods currently bruised en route to
market.

The United States and other allies are looking at a range of credit
options for farmers in the hope they can wean many from growing opium
poppy, which fuels the Taliban insurgency.

The goal is to provide up-front funds for wheat but also higher-value
products such as table grapes, nuts and apples in the hope they will get
better returns than opium. Afghanistan produces nearly all of the
world's opium, used to make heroin.

"We are looking forward to receiving loans ... we also want low
interest," said Haji Yaseen, another apple grower from Paktia province.

"Farmers everywhere want that," laughed Vilsack, a former governor from
the U.S. farming state of Iowa.

The Obama administration has promised to present a list of credit
options to the Afghan agriculture ministry by March. The plan is to
offer credit facilities like those given to farmers in the United
States, who get low-interest loans.

"How do you pay for your imports? Would you use a banking system?,"
Vilsack asked the farmers, who all nodded.

When U.S. President Barack Obama announced his new strategy to send in
30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, he also promised a civilian "surge,"
including additional agricultural advisors to overhaul an industry
devastated by decades of war.

"President Obama ... understands that the future of your country is on
this table," said Vilsack, pointing to a table laden with nuts, apples
and pomegranates, many of which he sampled.

"I look forward to going back to Washington with your messages and to
give as much help as we possibly can," Vilsack told the farmers. "I can
assure you that I'm going to be a consumer of pomegranates from now on."

(Editing by Peter Graff and Sanjeev Miglani)

(c) Thomson Reuters 2010 All rights reserved

 

RE: Apple-Crop: Club varieties

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,.

An interesting article, and a really interesting set of comments made by
growers. I am a great believer in diversity and choice. But I can also
see that when more then 20 club varieties become available, that they
will be seriously competing with each-other for shelf space. In such a
situation, while internal competition between the growers of a
particular variety may not be a problem in depressing prices, external
competition, to actually get the shelf space, may have the same
price-depressing effect. The key, as some commentators have already
said, is to produce fruit with excellent eating qualities. Of course
some varieties will be higher acid, some sweeter, some more aromatic,
some with a more interesting colour, but if they taste well they will be
eaten quickly, and people will be back for more all the sooner. 

People really want to eat apples; they know how good they are for
general health, but delivering poor quality is an invitation for the
public to choose bananas or oranges instead.

Mind you, the club system has something to offer here, as they set (and
hopefully enforce) standards for the apples that bear their brand. At
the moment in Ireland, at least 50% of the apple wall in Marks and
Spencer (one of the high-end multiples) is dedicated to Pink Lady. Not a
single Pink Lady is grown in Ireland (for climatic reasons), and perhaps
only 5% of the apple display is given for Irish apples. Last week at a
tasting I was conducting, people who tried the Irish apple (Elstar clone
Elswout) were very impressed and bought it. The sales of Irish apples in
those shops were ten times their normal volume during those days, but
obviously, I can't give a sample to every person in Ireland.

This proves the power of the Pink Lady club. People tried that apple
once, probably in response to a poor experience with whatever they were
eating before (most likely a Gala, Braeburn or Fuji), and have continued
to buy due to consistency. The fruit display did not start with 50% Pink
Lady. Pink Lady had to muscle its way in, but the more people bought
them, the larger their proportion of the display area became. Some of
those Pink Lady apples were selling at a euro each (more than one US
dollar), which tells you just how much people will pay for a good apple.

So what does this say about other retail channels? To my mind, people
buy apples at the farmers market, not primarily because they can meet
the farmer, but because they can get the quality they want. Such quality
can also be delivered via supermarkets, but most fail to deliver it with
a reliable consistency. I can only assume that this is at least partly
because there is always a supermarket buyer seeking a cheaper option,
and always a wholesaler or grower who has something that the need to
sell fast, at whatever price they can get. If the clubs manage to remove
this dynamic from the market, it will be good for everyone. However,
they will still end up competing with each other to get onto the shelf
in the first place. But at least the consumer should get better quality.

Wishing you all best wishes for the turn of the season,

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir,

Ireland

 

 

Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic

[Con.Traas]

Excellent Dave and Chris,

Now this discussion is getting somewhere.

Here in Ireland it is said that for every calorie that gets to the
consumers mouth, 9 calories of fossil fuel are used to generate that
calorie. With fossil fuels as a non-sustainable resource (due to
depleting reserves as well as pollution problems), that will have to
change.

I run a conventional orchard. It yields about 20 tons of apples per acre
per year. Rainfall here is high, so irrigation is not really necessary.
But fungicides are vital. Last year we commenced a project to measure
the life-cycle CO2 of the orchards. I had imagined that with all the
biomass the apple tree produces over its lifetime (leaves, roots, wood,
substantial yield of fruit, increase in soil organic matter content
etc.), that my orchard would take in a lot more CO2 than I use in
producing the fruits (tractor fuel, fertiliser, cold stores, shipping,
packaging, fungicides, herbicides etc.) While the project is not
finished, I can report that my orchard is just about carbon neutral, if
I leave out the shipping CO2. Not half as good as I expected. And not
many crops would fare as well as tree fruits.

However, organic apples would not fare any better here, because many of
the CO2 inputs would still apply, and yields and biomass increase would
be substantially lower.

That's why I actually think that your president's garden is a great idea
and a great example. If people can grow food outside their back door
(either organic or not), then many of the CO2 inputs are virtually
eliminated. If you use home-made compost for fertiliser in your garden
then the problem of moving organic matter with relatively low nutrient
content is also overcome.

Unfortunately, because of our economic system, growing your own is bad.
If you grow your own vegetables instead of buying, the Gross Domestic
Output of the country falls. So it's bad for the economy. On the other
hand, if your crash your car, that's good for the economy, as money must
change hands to replace or repair it. As long as we have such poor
measurement devices for our economies, and pollution is not paid for, we
will continue to fail to make any impact in these things.

To get back to the earlier point, it is my belief that organic or
similar systems can form part of the solution, especially in less
developed countries, where a well-managed organic plot using locally
produced inputs can vastly improve productivity above the current
subsistence levels, and without impoverishing the producers. In much of
the developed world, I suspect that organic is not the solution. It does
offer lessons and solutions, but for many reasons it is not feasible on
the massive scales that we have become used to operating at, not least
in horticulture because too much labour would be required.

Becoming vegetarians would help, but not in certain parts of Ireland (or
the world), where the only vegetation is grass, and as humans can't eat
grass, we only have the option of grazing animals and eating these,
which is still better than no food at all.

This could go on and on...

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

Ireland

 

 

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of edwdol...@aol.com
Sent: 22 July 2009 14:22
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic

 

If livestock, dairy  and poultry farmers quit raising their  products.
the supply of manure for composting or fertilizers will be nil.  I posed
this question to an invited organic grower (the originator of the
Topato),  speaker at the SW Illinois Vegetable Growers meeting in 1968:
"where is the supply of manure to fertilize the 3000 acres of vegetables
in the St. Louis production area?"  At that time, the recommendation was
2-4 tons per acre or more. It was not available then nor is it now.  

Chris Doll, Extension retiree


-Original Message-
From: Dave Rosenberger 
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Sent: Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:03 pm
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: LA Times Re: organic

Yes, I was implying that it might be less damaging to our planet if we
produced food using pesticides in humid climates rather than draining
rivers for arid-land agriculture. However, I really doubt if anyone has
calculated the trade-offs, and it would probably be nearly impossible to
do so. We are all so interconnected that it is often very difficult to
predict how changes in one arena can totally upset the balances half a
world away. (Besides, the world would rapidly run out of food if we
abandoned all arid-land agriculture or if we abandoned all pesticides
not approved for organic use!) 
 
To illustrate the complexities of our interconnectedness: A recent
article in Science magazine discussed decisions by an agency in
California that decided industries should not receive carbon-related
credits for using biofuels because the data collected by this agency
indicated that biofuels as currently p

Apple-Crop: RE: Apple Prices

[Con.Traas]

Jerry makes a good point.
If you go too far with your prices you will leave yourself open to
someone else beating you badly on price. Surely it would be wise to
price yourself at a level where you are making a good return, but not so
much that it makes it obviously attractive for someone else to compete
headlong with you. 
It is my opinion that if you are too well paid for what you produce
(regardless of the product), your business becomes unfit, using the
extra revenue to cover up inefficient practice, poor decision making,
overpaying for inputs etc. Then when things get tight, you are operating
an inefficient business which is less likely to survive.
So I would advise considering your own position relative to the market
you are in before deciding to raise prices. 
Regarding Jerry's cookie problem, it depends on how aggressive he should
want to be.
He could match the price and try to put the other woman under pressure.
If he reduces her sales by 50%, the low margin on a reduced volume may
be difficult for her to take. 
He could do a free cookie with every $5.00 (or whatever) spent at his
stall. That might help raise his total revenue, and could hit his
competitor very badly, assuming her main product is cookies, and Jerry's
is not.
Or perhaps a simple "special" of 3 for the price of 2.
Regarding the general comment about less pricey items becoming more
popular, the best response, I think, is to try to provide what the
customer wants.
Con Traas


To all:
We have not set fruit prices yet but we are selling baked goods at
farmer's
markets.  At our best market I am slowly being eaten alive by a woman
who is
undercutting my cookie prices ($1.50 vs $1.00). We tried bigger signage
with
emphasis that ours are larger with 25% reduced fat (i.e. healthier), but
we
cannot seem to get past the differences in price.

I am tempted to slim mine down without reducing size and sell them for
99
cents but I hate to admit defeat.

On the other hand, all of our less pricy products are outselling higher
priced stuff by wider margins than ever before. If this is indeed the
"depression" setting in, how do we counter it?

Jerry Mills
Mills Apple Farm
Southern Illinois



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Apple-Crop: Terrible weather

[Con.Traas]

A few weeks ago the UK meteorological service issued its long range
forecast for the coming summer as one that will be hotter and drier than
usual. Needless to say, since then it has been raining in Ireland
(although the prospects are for better weather quite soon).

This wet weather is following a wet spring, which means that soils have
been saturated for some time, and apple scab pressure has been very
strong.

At the moment I am two days overdue on a 7 day apple scab program which
so far this season has incorporated dithianon (an old-fashioned
protectant with similar activity to Captan), Scala (pyrimethanil),
Mancozeb, Captan and Bellis (a pyraclostrobin and boscalid mixture), as
well as bupirimate for powdery mildew. Despite this rigorous program, I
have still spotted some apple scab lesions in one block, and plan to use
a difenoconazole mancozeb mixture as soon as weather permits.

I attribute the presence of scab to the late growth of some shoots into
early winter, and the subsequent persistence of little leaves on a few
un-pruned shoot tips over the winter; these over-wintering leaves
carrying lesions capable of infecting new green tissue as soon as it
emerged in the spring. Of course, if the weather had not been so wet,
spray covers would have been more reliable, and infections less likely
to occur, but that is not how it turned out.

It will be interesting to see the effect of the difenoconazole when I do
get to use it. As long ago as 1993/94 we experienced DMI resistance (to
myclobutanil). Since then we have used DMI's very irregularly, but
laboratory tests on lesions as late as 2001 showed that myclobutanil
resistance was still widespread within our orchard. However,
difenoconazole appears to be much more active than myclobutanil, so I am
hopeful that it will work. If I can still collect samples in a few weeks
time, I plan to test them for DMI resistance again.

Apart from that, I do have the option of using dodine. This is a
chemical that we never used routinely in our spray programs, and I do
not believe that our scab is resistant to it yet. I am reluctant to use
it for fear of russet, but it may present the lesser of two evils, the
other being scab infections on the apple. Alternatively, I may have to
continue with a low-rate protectant program during the season to keep
fruit and emerging leaves scab-free. Time will tell, but the unfolding
weather will play a big part. Which brings me back to the long-range UK
met service forecast. I hope they are right.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir,

Ireland.

Apple-Crop: RE Cedar apple rust

[Con.Traas]

That is a great point Karl,
We are travelling down the same road in Europe, and we also have fewer
options and more restrictions when it comes to chemical applications.
And oddly enough, the newer chemicals are generally inferior to the
older chemistry, plagued especially with resistance problems. However,
manufacturers will not defend old chemistry, as there is no money in it
for them, whereas they are rather more willing to invest in pushing
through chemicals that are patent-protected. 
It will make growing fruit more expensive and more difficult. That would
not be such a problem if we did not have to compete with fruits grown in
locations where these restrictions do not apply, as open trade allows
these fruits to be sold in Europe (or the US) even if treated with
chemicals or in ways that our governments would not permit in their own
countries.
All that the regulators will succeed in doing is push the production to
less regulated countries, where the same chemicals will still be used.
No environmental benefit will accrue, and fruit will probably travel
even further to market in our more restricted countries. Food will also
get more expensive here. 
It's bizarre that nobody thinks these things through beyond the most
simplistic first step of more restrictions = less chemicals = good.
We are all in favour of less chemicals, but the regulations now being
developed will not deliver that.
PS. Would any of the strobilurins have helped for the cedar rust? 
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Cahir
CO. Tipperary
Ireland

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Karl Townsend
Sent: 30 April 2009 12:39
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Cedar apple rust

.
> Since you've never had a problem before, I expect that there was an
> unusually high amount of inoculum last year, and the two final sprays
> of captan, then Scala, didn't do much to control it. Another
> explanation might be that in previous years, you've used an EBDC
> (Polyram, Dithane, Maneb, etc.) through the entire scab season, which
> would have handled rust. The SI (Nova) would provide good post-
> infection activity against rust as well as scab, so I doubt the
> infections happened early.
>

Indeed, we used to rely on the EBDC more until a label change for longer

PHI. For that matter, SI also, but to fear of resistance. For many years

we'd have four polyram/nova sprays.

OK, Nova is out. (we only use Nova when we get caught needing post 
infection) Polyram is out for the late period. Captan and Scala are poor

choices - what's left?

Karl




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RE: Apple-Crop: ten-organic-foods-worth-money

[Con.Traas]

Hello Jon,
Cheap shot journalism at its best. Says more about the writer than the subject. 
Most people have more sense than to be swayed by it though, I believe.
If it was here though, I would contact the journalist to set out a few facts, 
because she might just be silly enough to write the same stuff again. Funny 
enough, if she wrote K is for Kelloggs and a lot of pesticides she would 
probably be sued from here to eternity. 
Con Traas

PS. The Johnny story was very uplifting.


FYI, this was linked from cnn.com today. (Thanks to Tom Green of the  
IPM Institute for pointing it out.)

http://bit.ly/3Enxpk
"Apples

A is for apple―and a lot of pesticides. According to the Food and  
Drug Administration, more pesticides (a whopping 36) are found on  
apples than on any other fruit or vegetable. In one test, as many as  
seven chemicals were detected on a single apple.
No organic? Peel your apples. And look for apples from New Zealand  
(it's noted on the little produce stickers), which are treated with  
half as many pesticides as those grown Stateside."


Jon Clements
Extension Tree Fruit Specialist
UMass Cold Spring Orchard
393 Sabin Street
Belchertown, MA  01007
VOICE 413.478.7219
FAX 413.323.6647
IM mrhoneycrisp
Skype Name mrhoneycrisp





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Apple-Crop: Academic reviewers

[Con.Traas]

Apologies to apple croppers,
The previous email was meant to be sent to Prof. Rahe directly.
Con Traas




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Apple-Crop: RE: Academic reviewers

[Con.Traas]

Dear Prof. Rahe,
Many thanks for your offer of help. I am lucky that quite a few people
have already volunteered, and I have forwarded their details to the
publisher. So I should not need to take you up on your kind offer, at
least for this paper, though I also do some work on fungicide resistance
in apple scab, and have for a long time wanted to publish some of my
results.
I enjoy the apple crop contributions from Annie's Orchard, and hope to
continue to read of news from BC I the future.
Con Traas

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Jim Rahe
Sent: 01 April 2009 21:00
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Academic reviewers

Hi Con,
I might/might not be qualified.  I'm a retired biologist/plant 
pathologist, but not well acquainted with literature in plant 
physiology dealing with plant hormones/growth regulators.  Any 
surface mail should be addressed to my home address, 4092-248th St., 
Aldergrove, BC.
Jim Rahe
Professor Emeritus
Simon Fraser Univeristy
Burnaby B.C. Canada
-- 
Annie's Orchard
4092-248th Street
Aldergrove, B.C. V4W 1B5
604-856-3041




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Apple-Crop: Academic reviewers

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

I am currently in the process of writing a journal paper on the results
of a long-term study into the application of gibberellins on apple
trees. The journal that I hope to submit to (Scientia Horticulturae)
require that I submit the names and contact details of four academic
reviewers, at least two of whom should not be from my own geographic
region.

I would very much appreciate if anyone on apple crop who is suitably
qualified, and would be interested in reviewing the paper, would reply
to me (by email preferably) in the near future. As you can see, I need
at least two volunteers, though four would be even better.

I would then forward your details to Elsevier (the publishers).

My contact details are:

Con Traas

Life Science Dept.

University of Limerick

Plassey Park

Limerick

Ireland

con.tr...@ul.ie

 

RE: Apple-Crop: Apples at a place where there is no chilling.

[Con.Traas]

Hello Dr. Parmar,

Just a suggestion, but production of ABA, which regulates dormancy, is
encouraged by shortening days and lengthening nights. At 6 degrees
south, daylength will not change, so I suspect that there might not be
so much ABA in the buds (especially if defoliation is practised), and so
they might not become dormant in the first place, and so the chilling is
not required to break dormancy.

That place sounds so amazing that I would love to go there some time to
see for myself.

Con Traas

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:apple-c...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Dr. Chiranjit Parmar
Sent: 16 February 2009 14:10
To: NAFEX
Cc: Apple Crop; Rarefruit list
Subject: Apple-Crop: Apples at a place where there is no chilling.

 

Dear all,

 

I was in Indonesia for two weeks and also visited some places in Java
island of that country.  I had a VERY BIG SURPRISE of my life there.  In
Batu area of Java I saw apples being cultivated.  This are is around
3000 ft above the seaas level, at 6 degrees south of equator.  The
minimum temperature of this area is above 45 F meaning that the trees do
not receive any chilling.  Most farmers even take two crops a year by
regulating the flowering with pruning or hand defoliation.  The fruit
quality is good and these fruits are bought by consumers at supermarkets
at a price higher than that for Fuji apples.

 

I would not have believed it had I not seen these orchards personally.

 

Could any of you explain how these apple trees are able to grow and bear
fruits even without meeting their chilling requirements?

 

Dr. Chiranjit Parmar
www.fruitipedia.com 

Apple-Crop: Ethryl

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

I hope that I have not been kicked off apple crop for bad behaviour. I
have not seen any posts in a little while.

In the past few weeks I have been analysing results of farm-scale trials
on the use of post-blossom ethryl to cause thinning in apples. The
results seem to be very variable, depending on variety, with Alkmene and
Bramley's practically unaffected, and Katja, Jonagored and Elstar
dropping a lot of apples, but with little positive effect on fruit size.

As this is my first year trying this chemical, I would be interested in
any observations.

Con Traas

Cahir

Ireland

 

PS. Congratulations to the US readers on your new President. Do you
expect any effects on pomology?

Apple-Crop: RE: Pixie Crunch Co-op 33

[Con.Traas]

Hello John,

I have no experience of this apple. However, I would say that in
marketing to schools, depending on how you go about it, appearance may
not be as important as people may think. If you get the kids out for an
orchard visit, and they pick whatever apple it is that you want to sell
to them, and they like the taste, then they will buy it, regardless of
how it looks. It is a real opportunity to break the link between looks
and flavour of fruits.

Con Traas

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Belisle
Sent: 07 December 2008 19:49
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Apple-Crop: Pixie Crunch Co-op 33

 

Help!!

 

I need guidance on a small apple for schools.  I have seen limited
excitement on Pixie Crunch.  I have read it is as good as a HoneyCrisp
in a small package.  I know of one test plot in the North western
Washington  that found it lacking in taste and removed it from its test
program.

 

If anyone has experience with Pixie crunch  for school markets, on farm
sales and possible limited sale to local groceries I would be interested
to know of your experiences. 

 

Items of interest is taste, and customer reaction to the taste
experience.  

 

Appearance, is it good to look at ( important to school children).  

 

Can it be grown with yields that make it profitable to grow. 

 

Thinning and bi annual problems if any.

 

Also where would I get scion wood to graft 200  trees. 

 

My climate is dry cool summers with wet cold spring and fall patterns.
The wet spring results in very long bloom making thinning a difficult if
not impossible exercise.   

 

Some of you may have other suggestions and I welcome them. 

 

JOHN BELISLE

Bellewoodapples.com

RE: Apple-Crop: MARK vs Mac-9 root stock

[Con.Traas]

Hello Don and Evan,

I have been interested in MAC 9 since I saw it growing in an Irish
Bramley's Seedling (cooking apple) orchard. The grower in question was
always very enthusiastic about its productivity, and indeed, he still
has the trees today, and has not experienced breakages, though soil-line
swelling is a characteristic. I think the important question is what
happened to MAC9 when it was made virus free (accompanied by a
name-change to Mark), to make it more prone to breakages? 

For people like Evan, who are still enthusiastic about the original
stock, it would be possible to take some original MAC 9 tissue, and make
another attempt at eliminating viruses. However, if the result is going
to be the same (more brittle unions), there would not be any point in
doing this.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

Ireland

 

PS I wonder if these changes could be epigenetic. It has recently been
established that it is not only the DNA code that we inherit from our
parents that determines our makeup, but that events in their lives that
affect their cells (but not DNA) can also be passed on in reproduction
via some type of "cell memory".

The more we find out, the more we realise what we don't know.

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Elfving, Donald C
Sent: 19 November 2008 22:54
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: MARK vs Mac-9 root stock

 

Back in 1980 I was involved in planting apple trees from the 1980 NC-140
Apple Rootstock trial at the Hort. Research Institute of Ontario
research station at Simcoe, Ontario, Canada.  Among the 9 rootstocks in
that trial was what we were told was the original MAC-9.  The top was
'Starkspur Supreme Delicious'  For the first few years, the MAC-9 trees
grew well and displayed remarkable precocity.  By about 5 years of age,
however, their vigor began to diminish and they became quite spur-bound.
Examination of the trees showed clearly that all 5 were suffering from
what has become known as "soil-line swelling", a proliferation of tissue
at the crown of the tree that significantly disrupts the vascular
connection between root and scion.  I also was initially impressed with
the early performance of these trees.  As a result, starting in 1986 I
planted a lot of trees on what by then was being called 'Mark'.  Again,
the initial performance of the 'Mark' trees was good, but within 3 years
we were starting to see some evidence of breakage at the union and,
within a few more years, clear evidence of "soil-line swelling".  The
MAC-9 trees in the 1980 NC-140 trial were propagated at least 7-8 years
before the official release of 'Mark', and we were told that they in
fact were the original MAC-9.  If that is the case, then our experience
indicates that both MAC-9 and 'Mark' displayed the same problem of
uncontrolled tissue proliferation on the rootstock shank.

 

Regards to all,

 

Don C. Elfving, Horticulturist and Professor

Washington State University

Tree Fruit Research and Extension Center

1100 N. Western Ave.

Wenatchee, WA 98801-1230

(509) 663-8181, ext. 252

(509) 662-8714 (fax)

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Evan B. Milburn
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2008 1:16 PM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Apple-Crop: MARK vs Mac-9 root stock

 

Hello all,

  Back in the late 70's and early 80's I was lucky to have known and
closely followed the research of Dr. Robert Carlson, MI on his
development of the MAC-9 apple rootstock. Those of you that belonged and
was active in the then, IDFTA as I was (and still am) kept  watching its
testing and development. By the late 80's I was con vined this rootstock
was a real winner . Smaller than the M-26, More productive than M-9.

 For 1987 I had ordered some 15,000 trees  to plant that year but only
could get about 500. These were planted and still very productive to
this day. These will be removed next year only because the variety Red
Del  is no longer viable.Than it was discovered the MAC-9 had a "virus"
and had to be go thru radiation to clean it up. This was done and
reintroduced as MARK.

   I planted the rest of my order in 1989.on this MARK. They were a
disaster! By year five and six they were all removed because of the bud
union problem I called cancer. Those of you who have planted them know
what I mean.

  On the IDFTA trip to Australia 2000 we visited one grower who had a
large block of Reds planted side by side. One block on MARK ,the other
on MAC-9. Same results. MAC-9 were absolutely beautiful, the MARKS were
a disaster. 

  Question-- Has any one had the same experience? I realize not many out
there have the true MAC-9.To the 'experts out there;  What in the
process of "cleaning up the virus" would make this kind of change ?
Please do not tell me ,as many have ,there was no change. I've seen my
self and dearly paid for it!

  If any one wants to see 

Apple-Crop: European apple crop

[Con.Traas]

Hello everyone,

Estimates for the European apple crop have recently been published.

Overall a crop of 9,977,000 tons is expected, a 14% increase on 2007. In
the 15 "older" Western EU member states, Jonagold will be down 15% to
683,000 tons, Braeburn down 12% to 268,000 tons, Golden delicious down
8% to 1,944,000 tons, Gala down 4% to 856,000 tons and Elstar down 15%
to 370,000 tons. The reason for the overall production rise is that the
eastern European states which were frost-affected in 2007 will this year
have full crops. Particular mention should be given to Poland, whose
production of 1,100,000 tons in 2007 is set to double to 2,360,000 tons
this year, which will make it the largest apple producer in Europe this
year.

Ireland will this year produce 0.1% of Europe's total apple crop, and my
own farm 0.005% of Europe's apple crop.

And if I had forty euros for every ton of apples grown in Europe this
year, I would just have enough money to bail out the Irish banks
property speculation bubble, which has just been guaranteed by our very
generous government.

Any news on US crop estimates?

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Moorstown

Cahir

Ireland

 

Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own (and fuel)

[Con.Traas]

Hello Tommy,

It is interesting that you should bring up the cost of fuel. Here in
Ireland, it appears that fuel, fertilisers, and agrochemicals have all
risen in price by fairly similar amounts. As far as I can see, this will
push up costs of production by about 10%. However, with the credit
squeeze, rising unemployment, high food inflation in general etc., I
wonder about what latitude I have to recoup the costs by increasing
prices.

Any thoughts anyone?

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

Ireland

 

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tommy and Sandy
Sent: 12 July 2008 17:17
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own

 

Thank everyone for responding to my questions about ladders in a PYO
operation.  I had my own fears, and everyone confirmed them.  Hope this
is a money making year for everyone despite high fuel prices.

Tommy Bruguiere

Dickie Bros. Orchard

Roseland, Va.

- Original Message - 

From: Ron Gaskill   

To: Apple-Crop   

Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 11:59 AM

Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own

 

Tommy,

 

In our pick-you-own operation (in Michigan) the question of
ladders or not was answered by our insurance carrier with an emphatic,
"no!"  It wasn't a question of paying a higher premium but rather one of
having insurance coverage at all; it wouldn't insure the exposure.  And
it was a major agricultural insurer with a strong commercial lines base.
A PYO customer could be injured from climbing a tree and yet be covered
by insurance, but once the ladder was in the orchard and offered as an
inducement to climb the coverage terminated.  We didn't really argue
with the carrier because we weren't that thrilled to have ladders in the
orchard anyway and it made for an easy reason to keep them out.  The
trees were medium-sized and free-standing and occasionally a youngster
or two would climb onto the main scaffold limbs, but all-in-all we had
very few problems with climbers.  Check carefully with your insurance
carrier to be sure you know the extent of your coverage.

 

Ronald L. Gaskill, Director

Congressional Relations for International Trade

American Farm Bureau Federation(r)

600 Maryland Ave., SW; Suite 1000W

Washington, D.C.  20024

Tel: (202) 406-3674 Fax: (202) 406-3604

Cell: (202) 213-0179E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 


 





From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tommy and Sandy
Sent: Sunday, July 06, 2008 2:00 AM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own

 

We are allowing people to pick their own apples for the last
couple of years.  We didn't start out as a pick your own orchard and we
have larger trees, 111, 7, and some larger 26's.

In the past we have not allowed ladders or climbing trees.  I
was wondering if any other pick your own orchards allowed ladders either
supplying them to people or allowing them to bring their own.  Also if
ladders are allowed how much more insurance do you have to carry.  Has
anyone had any bad claims because of ladders.

Thanks for responding.

 

Tommy Bruguiere

Dickie Bros. Orchard

Roseland, Va

RE: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own

[Con.Traas]

Hello Tommy, and all other respondents on this topic.

I grow apples and plums, and unfortunately with the plums, have had no
choice up to now but to use ladders. However, all our apples are on M9
rootstock, and can be picked from ground level. Unless there are very
good climatic reasons not to use a dwarfing rootstock that contains
trees to less than 8 feet high, I cannot emphasise enough the
convenience factor of picking from the ground. Picking rates are far
higher, and the safety factor is a huge issue. If I still had big trees,
I would start phasing them out as quickly as possible. I think it will
be cheaper than the additional costs of picking over the longer term. I
also suspect that the convenience factor of picking from ground level
will encourage u-pick customers to buy more fruit (sometimes they just
can't stop themselves).

At the moment we are planting plums on VVA-1 (dwarfing stock) with a
view to replacing our older (but perfectly healthy and productive) large
trees on St. Julien A. If I don't do this, and someone down the road
plants dwarf plums, it won't be long until I am out of business, because
I will not be able to compete.

Perhaps someday when robotic pickers become available, we will be able
to let our trees up higher again. Right now I want my apples where I can
reach them.

Con Traas

Cahir

Co. Tipperary

Ireland

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tommy and Sandy
Sent: 06 July 2008 07:00
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own

 

We are allowing people to pick their own apples for the last couple of
years.  We didn't start out as a pick your own orchard and we have
larger trees, 111, 7, and some larger 26's.

In the past we have not allowed ladders or climbing trees.  I was
wondering if any other pick your own orchards allowed ladders either
supplying them to people or allowing them to bring their own.  Also if
ladders are allowed how much more insurance do you have to carry.  Has
anyone had any bad claims because of ladders.

Thanks for responding.

 

Tommy Bruguiere

Dickie Bros. Orchard

Roseland, Va

Apple-Crop: New variety article

[Con.Traas]

Hello Jon,
That is a nice piece of work. It is important to be consumer (rather
than customer) orientated, and this is a lesson for more than the people
who sell direct to the consumer.
Con Traas

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jon Clements
Sent: 23 June 2008 19:25
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Apple-Crop: New variety article

Hello everyone, we have just web-published a study on "Consumer  
Evaluation of New, Antique, and Little Know Apple Varieties."

http://www.umass.edu/fruitadvisor/variety/

Many of you who sell direct-market will be interested in the results.

Jon

Jon Clements
Extension Tree Fruit Specialist
UMass Cold Spring Orchard
393 Sabin Street
Belchertown, MA  01007
VOICE 413.478.7219
FAX 413.323.6647
IM mrhoneycrisp
Skype Name mrhoneycrisp






--

The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard 
 and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon 
Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent 
"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for 
the content.







--

The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard
 and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon
Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
"official" opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for
the content.

RE: Apple-Crop: Damage in Washington & California

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

There are also reports of some freezing temperatures in continental
Europe, down to 19.5F in parts of Holland. No news on damage as of yet,
but frost protection was in full swing with those who have it.

Con Traas

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Megan M. Oster
Sent: 24 April 2008 19:35
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Damage in Washington & California

 

Hello Annette, 

 

We have received preliminary reports from some of our readers and
industry contacts regarding the freeze in the Pacific Northwest. At this
point, it is too early to assess the full extent of the damage. From
what we have heard, soft fruit seems to have been hit the hardest,
although some apple growers outside of Yakima have mentioned possible
crop loss of up to 50%. As we receive more updates on the severity of
the damage, we will be keeping our readers posted via our weekly
electronic newsletter (which, incidentally, you can sign up for by going
to www.americanfruitgrower.com 
and clicking on "subscribe").

 

 

Best Regards,

 

Megan Oster 

Associate Editor

American/Western Fruit Grower

Meister Media Worldwide

37733 Euclid Avenue

Willoughby, Ohio 44094

Direct Dial:  440-602-9207

[EMAIL PROTECTED]



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Annette and Randy
Bjorge Fruit Acres Farms
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:23 AM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Apple-Crop: Damage in Washington & California

 

Hi Apple Croppers,

 

There are rumors in Michigan about there being damage in Washington
State and California. Does anybody know anything?

Annette Bjorge

Fruit Acres Farms

Coloma, MI

RE: Apple-Crop: Fruit Research Job in Ireland

[Con.Traas]

Hello Bill,

I have no problem with the lifestyle here. However, I get the impression
that one dollar will buy more in the US than one euro will here. Ireland
is an expensive country to live in.

Con

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Shoemaker
Sent: 16 April 2008 13:44
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Fruit Research Job in Ireland

 

At the current exchange rate, about $55,000 US dollars. I hear the
lifestyle is pretty nice Con. I think you'll have some lookers,
hopefully a keeper of two.

 

Bill Shoemaker, Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops
University of Illinois - St Charles Horticulture Research Center
www..nres.uiuc.edu/faculty/directory/shoemaker_wh.html
 

 

 

 if you have a salary of 50,000 euros in Ireland, the social
insurance for the worker costs about 4,000 euros, and the tax about
13,000 euros, leaving 33,000 euros. 

RE: Apple-Crop: Fruit Research Job in Ireland

[Con.Traas]

Hello Jean-Marc,

I know that this is completely off-topic, but just in case there is somebody 
out there interested in this job, and considering the same question, then (for 
a single person) if you have a salary of 50,000 euros in Ireland, the social 
insurance for the worker costs about 4,000 euros, and the tax about 13,000 
euros, leaving 33,000 euros. Not much different from France then.

Con

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Jourdain Jean-Marc
Sent: 16 April 2008 12:05
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Fruit Research Job in Ireland

 

Hi Con Traas

 

Interesting

Lets consider a 5 Euros annual income in Ireland, how much money would 
really be in my pocket at the end of year (deducted tax and insurance paid by 
employees on the monthly income), and what would be my global tax as a single.

At this moment in France, the neat salary would be 20% less, and my average 
annual global tax would be around 20% of the neat income (marginal high rate 
30%). Estimated since I am not a single... Thus it would remain in my bank 
32000 Euros, 

 

Joke on/

and of course : healthy life in countryside, quiet nights, lot of fruit and 
vegetable to eat, no traffic jams, no underground theatre or movies just block 
busters, affordable housing (provided you do not compete with retiring English 
people that are very fond of Dordogne area);-))

/Joke off

 

No joke at all, I am very impressed that Ireland is able to offer such good 
conditions for this job.

 

Jean Marc Jourdain

 



De : Con.Traas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Envoyé : mercredi 16 avril 2008 11:21
À : Apple-Crop
Objet : Apple-Crop: Fruit Research Job in Ireland

 

I am very happy to note that Ireland's agricultural research and extension 
body, Teagasc, is now recruiting for a fruit specialist (permanent position).

The details of the job are available at 
http://www.teagasc.ie/careers/20080409a-spec.htm

The abbreviated job description is to provide specialist technical support, 
training and leadership for the development of the Fruit sector.

The salary scale begins at 36,000 euros per annum, with increments to 65,000 
per annum. Depending on experience and qualifications, the starting salary 
could be as high as 49,000 per annum. A very generous civil service pension 
scheme is standard for all public service employees in Ireland.

I would be delighted to see a candidate from outside Ireland bringing their 
experience, perspective and knowledge to bear in a position like this. Goodness 
knows we need it.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

Ireland

 

Apple-Crop: Fruit Research Job in Ireland

[Con.Traas]

I am very happy to note that Ireland's agricultural research and
extension body, Teagasc, is now recruiting for a fruit specialist
(permanent position).

The details of the job are available at
http://www.teagasc.ie/careers/20080409a-spec.htm

The abbreviated job description is to provide specialist technical
support, training and leadership for the development of the Fruit
sector.

The salary scale begins at 36,000 euros per annum, with increments to
65,000 per annum. Depending on experience and qualifications, the
starting salary could be as high as 49,000 per annum. A very generous
civil service pension scheme is standard for all public service
employees in Ireland.

I would be delighted to see a candidate from outside Ireland bringing
their experience, perspective and knowledge to bear in a position like
this. Goodness knows we need it.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

Ireland

 

RE: Apple-Crop: position available

[Con.Traas]

I must say that I think any employer would be very lucky to get a good
manager to work those hours, with the extra flexibility required, for
the salary offered (even though I would love such a job myself, if I did
not have my own farm). Perhaps there are too many attractive alternative
careers available to young people these days, but I don't think we would
find many takers here. Mind you, it is good to see that the farm has the
prospect of making a profit of $100,000, 10% of which could go to the
manager. Any farm making a decent profit is a beacon to all of us.

Con Traas

 



- Original Message - 

From: Renae Moran   

To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net 

Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 2:25 PM

Subject: Apple-Crop: position available

 

Apple Orchard Manager Position

 

We currently have an opening for a farm manager in our
operation.  We are Ricker Hill Orchards, a family farm in Turner, Maine,
started in 1803. Our apple orchards are located in seven towns in
Maine's western foot hills. We produce IPM and organic apples, high bush
blue berries, IPM cranberries, and other fruit and mixed vegetables to a
much smaller degree.  We employ five orchard managers who each manage
and maintain 50 to 120 acres of apples.  The farm manager spends most of
their time on the same farm, pruning, mowing, spraying, and managing the
harvest crew.  Decisions on chemical control for pest and disease
management and thinning are made by the owner.  General farm workers are
available when extra labor is needed.  Record keeping for each farm is
done an individual enterprise with expenses and income from the quality
and quantity of crop.  Managers must be available to work when needed to
grow the crop to its top potential.  There will be some flexibility on
work schedule.  Occasionally the manager will work with our packing
operation, cranberry operation, or helping on one of the other manager's
farms, as needed.  This position involves some excessive hours during
May/June and September/October.  Our regular work week is Monday through
Friday, 7 am to 4:30 pm.  

Base salary is between $27K and 35K, commensurate
with experience and education.  Manager's share of profits from their
farm is 10% up to $10,000.  Benefits include a medical and retirement
plan, vehicle and clothing allowance.  Housing may also be available.  

 

Thank you for your interest,

Harry Ricker

cell 207-754-3455, email [EMAIL PROTECTED],
www.rickerhill.com

 

 

 

RE: Apple-Crop: Returns for apples tree run

[Con.Traas]

Hello John,

That is a very difficult question, and I am glad that a lot of people asked you 
some questions to define better whether you were supplying bins, storage etc.

Here in Ireland I grow, pack and sell apples from my farm. Occasionally I sell 
fruit to other packers, and on the odd occasion, I pack fruit for other growers.

In my own situation, for apples which I sell packed, psychologically I return 
about 50% of the market price to the orchard operation. In doing this, I am not 
really allowing any margin on the packing end, and in truth, I could buy the 
same apples that I grow for 30-40% of the market price. However, if I were to 
charge internally at these levels, I would not be making anything out in the 
orchard, and would be better off becoming a full-time packer, which would be 
giving me a very good return on investment.

However, I do not want to be a packer, and don’t pack other people’s apples, 
because I do not like the parasitic relationship that I see between packers and 
growers. Therefore, I grow my own apples, pack them, and sell them, and do not 
pack apples for others, aside from when I am doing them a favour.

When I look across at mainland Europe, I see co-operative packing operations 
that seem to do a bit better than in Ireland, because the growers are in 
control, and are returned a dividend from the co-operatives. However, I can 
also see that the more aggressive marketing operations tend to be privately 
run, but in the long run, I believe that these are detrimental to the good of 
the grower. Certainly, the independent packers in Ireland have not returned an 
acceptable price to growers in the past fifteen or twenty years.

In your own case, given that you neither store nor provide the bins, I would 
feel that if you received 35% of the shipped price of the Red Delicious apples, 
you could not expect a lot more. However, as was already pointed out, this 
might be fine as an example of an industry average, but might not reflect the 
apples that you sent in. If you could get back the returns, gradeout etc. for 
your own apples, that would at least be a starting point.

As I found out a few years ago (before I had enough storage and packing 
capacity myself), one well–respected packer to whom I supplied apples returned 
me €70 per bin after taking his extortionate storage and packing fees directly 
off the sales price he received (having sold my apples cheap to secure a 
customer for himself later in the year). Another guy to whom I sold them (and 
this person was known to be unreliable) returned me €127 per bin for the same 
apples, because I agreed a price prior to delivery, because others had warned 
me to be wary of him. The moral of the story was that I was a fool for trusting 
the first guy; not a mistake I have made since.

Con Traas

 

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 28 February 2008 05:50
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Apple-Crop: Returns for apples tree run

 

What return for tree run should I expect from a packer for Red Delicious that 
pack out, say 75%?

John Crumpacker







Delicious ideas to please the pickiest eaters. Watch the video on AOL Living. 

 

Apple-Crop: Spring 2008

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

We are experiencing a lovely warm spell for this time of the year, and
St. Valentine's Day. Although warm, the trees are not so advanced as
they were a few years ago, when the first Victoria plum trees started
flowering at this time. So, at the moment it looks as though (assuming
the weather does not remain warm for too long) we will have an early
spring, but not one for the record books, which is a relief, as we have
often had damaging frosts in early May, which is still a long way off.

On our own farm we still have apples in store, and thanks to the
Smartfresh treatment, they are really excellent. In fact, they seem to
stay that fresh that I need to add far fewer high-acid apples to my
juice to get a nice balance between sweetness and acidity. My only
problem is to figure out what to do with the high acid apples.

In general growers were happy with apple demand this year, but are very
concerned about the rising costs of fertiliser (linked to oil prices it
seems), and agrochemicals. However, labour is still the number one cost,
and it looks likely to remain that way. At least in Ireland it is
possible to get labour, whereas in the UK and Holland, it can be very
difficult.

I would be interested to hear what prospects are like in other parts of
the World, and how the spring is shaping up. Right now I've got to go
out and do a bit of work.

Con Traas

 

 

RE: Apple-Crop: cell tower leasing

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

I tend to agree. Here in Ireland we have a hypocritical view.  While
nobody wants visual intrusion in their area, everyone wants good mobile
coverage. And almost everyone has a phone. 

According to the World Health Organisation, mobile phone masts are safe
(as far as they can tell). Some studies dispute this, but if there is a
risk from mobile phone technology, it makes sense that the greatest risk
is to the user who has the phone antenna stuck to the side of their face
for extended periods, rather than to someone living at a reasonable
remove from a base station. Personally, I would not put a base station
in my attic, but would have no concerns about putting one on a water
tower 80 metres from my house, provided I knew how much power it was
emitting.

I think it makes sense to have base stations incorporated into existing
tall structures, just to lessen visual intrusion.

Con Traas

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tommy and Sandy
Sent: 10 January 2008 04:33
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: cell tower leasing

 

Here in central Va we require cell phone companies to use monopoles and
use either wooden poles or metal depending on height.  Most wooden poles
are along our major highways and if you don't know what to look for they
are invisible.  Some slightly higher poles are only above the tree line
so they too are mostly out of sight.

The companies pay good rent and everyone needs cell phone coverage these
days.  Most people when they come to our place jump out of the car with
cell phone in hand and are disappointed that they can't get coverage.
Having cell phone coverage at your place of business is a big plus these
days.

 

Tommy Bruguiere

Dickie Bros Orchard.

Roseland, VA

- Original Message - 

From: Jill Kelly   

To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net 

Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 11:07 AM

Subject: Apple-Crop: cell tower leasing

 

Does anyone have any experience or input regarding leasing some
of your land to a cell phone provider for a cell tower?  The income
would be nice at this point but I am concerned about immpact on PYO,
neighbors etc.

 

Art Kelly

Kelly Orchards

Acton, Me

Apple-Crop: RE: Ken and Barb Hall

[Con.Traas]

Ken and Barbara,

What a fantastic attitude. I wish you the best in your rebuilding, and
congratulate you on a spirit which will ensure that you will not be
defeated. You may rest assured that everyone who has heard of your
plight is rooting for you.

Con Traas

 




To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Ken and Barb Hall

 

Thanks to all for your thoughts and prayers.  We have had an outpouring
of support in our community and from all over North America.  We are all
fine.  Have lots to rebuild.  Apple trees are all fine as is our trusty
one-eyed Golden Retriever.  The market will be leveled, but about half
the house frame will be salvaged.  We are richly blessed in many, many
ways.  Best Regards, Ken and Barb Hall, Edwards Orchard, Illinois

Apple-Crop: Local Production

[Con.Traas]

Normally we watch the US setting a trend, and then we follow it ten or
more years later in Ireland. It was like that with supermarkets,
outside-of-town shopping, and farmers' markets. However, recently we
have seen something else arising, and I have not seen too much comment
on how it may affect large apple growing areas, nor am I aware if it has
already occurred in the US.

A supermarket chain in the UK (with stores in Ireland) called Marks &
Spencer has announced Plan A. It is so-called because there is no plan
B, and Plan A is to become carbon neutral in five years.

Part of that will involve reducing long distance freight (especially air
freight, which will be signalled by placing an aeroplane symbol on
foods), and working with suppliers to make them carbon neutral also.

Because of this plan, which other retailers like Tesco are mimicking,
and because of consumer demand and political pressure, the issue of
local sourcing is getting very prominent, with retailers very keen to be
seen as the ones who stock local foods. Indeed, as a result, chains like
Tesco, who up to now only allowed central purchasing, are now using
regional purchasing, so that suppliers in a locality can sell through
their shops in that locality.

Personally, as a farm retailer, I am not too keen on seeing Tesco (and
other similar stores) sell local apples, as it erodes my unique selling
point, in as much as customers can get local apples without calling to
me. However, this just leaves me with the challenge of communicating
other stories of how I am different.

However, on a larger scale, for a country like Ireland, where 90% of
apples and 50% of vegetables are imported, changes like this represent
an opportunity; all the more so since the underlying reasons for the
change (fuel scarcity & global warming) are getting more urgent rather
than less. However, if producers here are going to expand, then someone
somewhere else will lose market share.

Not that it has happened yet. Due to consumption increase, and
population increase, sales of apples have increased by 20% over the past
five years, while production has been static, so up to now Irish growers
have been losing market share. However, the dynamic is most certainly in
the opposite direction, and I suspect that growers will increase
domestic production. For one thing, as fuel gets more expensive, the
cost of imported fruit and vegetables gets higher, leaving more room for
domestic producers to realise a profit.

Is the era of cheap food coming to an end?

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Moorstown

Cahir

Ireland

 

Apple-Crop: Smartfresh

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

We have been fortunate enough that Smartfresh has been approved for use
in Ireland. I am happy to say that we had a store treated on Monday, and
look forward to testing these apples against controls in a few months
time.

We have treated Jonagored (a Jonagold clone), a couple of Red Elstar
clones and also Autento, Wellant & Karmijn de Sonnaville (trial
quantities).

The Elstar clones were fairly ripe; certainly eating well when treated,
while the Jonagoreds were picked for medium-term storage. I can't wait
to see how things turn out, and was like a child with a new toy when the
agent came to treat the store.

We are still harvesting apples here, and the weather has been great; dry
and mild, so progress has been good. We expect to pick Jonagored for the
next week or so, and also Karmijn de Sonnaville, and after that the
Golden Delicious.

The harvest timing has been most interesting, as the early varieties
were two weeks ahead of normal, as indicated by the comments of
Jean-Marc, who posted on this topic earlier. However, the later
varieties are not ahead of normal, which raises questions about just
whether it really is possible to predict optimum harvest dates from
quite early in the year. Six weeks ago when we were picking the earlies,
we thought that the maincrop apples would be well ready for harvest by
now. Now they are not. How about that for inaccuracy?

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Ireland

 

 

RE: Apple-Crop: Apple Juice story

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

We don't get much tabloid TV over here (unless we pay for satellite we
only have access to 4 stations), but often these programs generate more
heat than light, and unless the presentation is very clear, more harm
can come from them than good.

I generally believe that negative advertising, stories or whatever about
a topic such as the (communist) Chinese apple juice concentrate may harm
innocent bystanders such as genuine US apple juice manufacturers, when
slightly confused people decide to switch to orange or cranberry juice
instead.

Keep emphasising the positive about yourself, and you do not run this
risk.

Con Traas

 

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 18 October 2007 11:50
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Apple Juice story

 

Based on his "debates" on immigration reform, it is a waste of time.  

 

In a message dated 10/17/2007 4:00:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

OK OK guys I will attempt to straighten out Lou - maybe he would
let me on the show to debate it!!! 

 

On Oct 17, 2007, at 1:49 PM, George M. Greene wrote:





Hi Bill and All:

 

When I worked in Pennsylvania most apple pickers made AT LEAST
$10/HOUR.  The old sob stories of apple growers exploiting orchard
workers WERE JUST NOT TRUE.  They worked real hard and made good money.
Workers pruning were also making a minimum of $10/HOUR

 

Please, a PR person in the apple industry needs to straighten
them out.

 

Tim Smith is right on!!!

 

Best regards, George

 

 

 

Unfortunately, the text implies that rather than the
$2/day chinese apple pickers earn, apple pickers in America earn $9-$15
(a day). As a publisher, perhaps you (Matt) could remind them that
integrity is all the news media has to convince readers/listeners of the
veracity of their stories. You might also want to tell them how long
this has been going on, and that news is best served fresh. Thanks for
bringing it to our attention.

 

Bill Shoemaker, Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops
University of Illinois - St Charles Horticulture
Research Center
www..nres.uiuc.edu/faculty/directory/shoemaker_wh.html
 

 

- Original Message -

From: Matt McCallum
 

To: Apple-Crop
 

Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 8:03 AM

Subject: Apple-Crop: Apple Juice story

 

Check out the October 9, Lou Dobbs Tonight story
on Chinese apple juice concentrate.  They made a big deal that most of
the apple juice sold is from Chinese concentrate - wow talk about being
late to the party...


http://media.vmsnews.com/MR.pl?id=100907-800813-Q001194320
 .

 

 

---

Matt McCallum

Publisher/CEO

 

Great American Publishing

75 Applewood Drive Suite A

Sparta MI 49345

 

P - 616-887-9008 ext 101

F - 616-887-2666

 

http:www.freshcut.com  

http://www.fruitgrowersnews.com
 

http://www.vegetablegrowersnew..com
 

http://www.spudman.com 


 

 

-- 

George M. Greene II
68 Willow Lane
Wiscasset, ME 04578
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
207-882-8074 





 

=

 

Jim Bittner
Singer Farms
6730 East Lake Rd
Appleton, NY 14008
Phone 716-778-7330
Fax 716-778-7003
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.singerfarms.com







See what's new at AOL.com 
and Make AOL Your Homepage
 .

RE: Apple-Crop: Apple Harvest

[Con.Traas]

Hello Jean-Marc,

That is an interesting point that you make about stopping your models at the 
end of cell division. The same thought crossed my mind, but only tentatively, 
because, while our season did not begin really early (as in bud break was later 
than quite a few recent years), the warm weather at and just after flowering 
meant that the apples raced through these stages, so that the time apples 
reached perhaps 20mm, was two weeks ahead of normal, and they have stayed two 
weeks ahead, despite the cool weather we experienced subsequently.

Could you post a more exact representation of the new formula you suggest for 
estimating harvest time.

Con

 



From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
Jourdain Jean-Marc
Sent: 13 September 2007 15:53
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Apple Harvest

 

Hi from South West of France

I could have written almost exactly the same words for our situation. Amazing 
precocity here (William's Bartlett harvested end of July... never seen).

 

Some more points :

For what concerns colour, we have this year very beautiful reds, strains of 
Gala wonderful, red delicious 4/4. This is different from Ireland. We think 
this is linked to cool nights we had all August.

Since we are aware of this amazing maturity date, we have been trying to rely 
the last years and this years harvest dates with temperature summaries, with 
different zeroes, different ceilings, beginning at flowering and ending at 
different dates. To achieve a good forecast of harvest date there is only one 
thing that allow the correlation to work, this is to stop sums at June 15. More 
or less stop the sums at end of cell multiplication. We do not found any 
publication on this, may be some one in apple-crop have a track to a paper on 
this?

Sanitary status is ok on fungus and pests, but we have got the bigger attack of 
fireblight since 10 years. I heard the same echoes from other part of European 
continental part.

 

Crop is very good on apple and below average on pears as shown with figures 
coming from the Lituania Prognosfruit

 

But I will give you the secret reason of all these climate desorders... the 
guilty is the 13 moons year 2007  ;-))

 

Jean marc Jourdain

Ctifl

Jourdain(at;-)Ctifl.fr

 



De : Con.Traas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Envoyé : jeudi 13 septembre 2007 10:23
À : Apple-Crop
Objet : Apple-Crop: Apple Harvest

 

Hello apple people,

The apple harvest here in Ireland is about two weeks ahead of schedule, or 
perhaps I should say that apple maturity is two weeks ahead of normal, because 
not everyone is picking as soon as perhaps they should. 

The spring was early and warm here this year, which got the fruit off to a good 
start, but then we endured the wettest summer in twenty years, which by our 
normal standards, that can be fairly wet, was really miserable. The trees did 
not suffer too badly however, even though fruits grew less than they normally 
would. 

About three weeks ago the weather dried out, and most of the picking of early 
varieties has proceeded in lovely warm weather, which has also helped the fruit 
size catch up to somewhere close to normal, except where crops are too heavy, 
and there is quite a bit of area where thinning was less than sufficient.

In general it looks like crops will be heavy, and the fruits that have ripened 
so far have tasted well, with plenty of sugars. On the downside, colour is not 
great yet, and this could become problematic after another while, unless things 
start changing soon.

I would imagine quite a few growers will pick over there red varieties two or 
three times to get the best coloured apples into store as soon as they are red 
enough, so hopefully the latter picked fruits will not be too ripe by then.

There have been no particular issues with pests or diseases during the season, 
which is nice for a change. Insect pressure was low thanks to the continuous 
rain, and yet, diseases were not too bad, as it was dry early on when the 
disease organisms needed it wet. Fireblight, which is not endemic in Ireland 
made an appearance on some ornamental trees in Dublin, but these were cut down 
and destroyed, so hopefully it has not spread any further.

A national trial of Jazz apples seems to demonstrate that they ripen too late 
for growing in Ireland, but two new early varieties, Zari and Zonga certainly 
have a nice taste.

Prices for apples seem stable, and demand is good, so we are hoping for a 
better year than some of the bad ones in the past decade.

Best wishes,

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

Apple-Crop: Apple Harvest

[Con.Traas]

Hello apple people,

The apple harvest here in Ireland is about two weeks ahead of schedule,
or perhaps I should say that apple maturity is two weeks ahead of
normal, because not everyone is picking as soon as perhaps they should. 

The spring was early and warm here this year, which got the fruit off to
a good start, but then we endured the wettest summer in twenty years,
which by our normal standards, that can be fairly wet, was really
miserable. The trees did not suffer too badly however, even though
fruits grew less than they normally would. 

About three weeks ago the weather dried out, and most of the picking of
early varieties has proceeded in lovely warm weather, which has also
helped the fruit size catch up to somewhere close to normal, except
where crops are too heavy, and there is quite a bit of area where
thinning was less than sufficient.

In general it looks like crops will be heavy, and the fruits that have
ripened so far have tasted well, with plenty of sugars. On the downside,
colour is not great yet, and this could become problematic after another
while, unless things start changing soon.

I would imagine quite a few growers will pick over there red varieties
two or three times to get the best coloured apples into store as soon as
they are red enough, so hopefully the latter picked fruits will not be
too ripe by then.

There have been no particular issues with pests or diseases during the
season, which is nice for a change. Insect pressure was low thanks to
the continuous rain, and yet, diseases were not too bad, as it was dry
early on when the disease organisms needed it wet. Fireblight, which is
not endemic in Ireland made an appearance on some ornamental trees in
Dublin, but these were cut down and destroyed, so hopefully it has not
spread any further.

A national trial of Jazz apples seems to demonstrate that they ripen too
late for growing in Ireland, but two new early varieties, Zari and Zonga
certainly have a nice taste.

Prices for apples seem stable, and demand is good, so we are hoping for
a better year than some of the bad ones in the past decade.

Best wishes,

Con Traas

The Apple Farm

Cahir

RE: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees

[Con.Traas]

Hello Darlyn,
I have about 1.5 acres of Haygrove tunnels, which I use to cover strawberries, 
raspberries and cherries. There is another company called Viking, who make 
similar, so-called Spanish tunnels.
They are good structures, but not suitable for covering crops in winter, when 
winds are stronger and shelter is poorer, nor are they suitable for very windy 
places. We get quite a bit of wind in Ireland, but I have located my tunnels in 
a relatively sheltered spot on the farm. However, during the summer, we got an 
unexpected gale, which lasted for about 4 hours, and which came close to 
knocking the tunnels. A guy about 50km from here, who was in a more exposed 
area, failed to keep all the tunnels ventilated (you ventilate by pushing the 
plastic up onto the roof of the tunnel, or down into the gutter if it is very 
windy, and he ended up with them crashing down onto his two acres of nearly 
ripe cherries, which were left a mess of tangled steel, branches and plastic. 
And because it was raining at the time, the cherries were lost.
I would recommend these tunnels as a cheap(er) method of covering crops, but 
not suitable for places that get wind when you need to have the crops covered. 
Usually, our wind comes in winter, when we remove the plastic, as the plants do 
not need cover then, and that suits us fine. 
Good shelter in the area can help a lot. Because the tunnels are on a leg about 
3 - 4 feet high, and the wind can blow under, temperatures do not get too hot 
underneath. The tunnels are as much for rain protection as temperature gain.
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Cahir
Ireland

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 13 August 2007 22:03
To: Apple-Crop
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees


Listers:

Have a look at "high tunnels" now manufactured by several berry growers 
in England after developing them for their own crops - raspberries, 
cherries, strawberries.  They are marketed as Haygrove Tunnels.  Sorry, 
I am short of time or would try to pull up their website.  Just Google 
Haygrove.

Here in the Pacific Northwest I find similar structures sold by Wilson 
Orchard Supply of Yakima, WA.  They are put up and taken down depending 
on the crop and the season.  I have yet to talk with anyone who has 
wind experience with them.  After our 14 windstorms last fall-winter, I 
am a bit reluctant to try them.  They can be covered with plastic, net, 
shade cloth.  I want to talk with a structural-tensile engineer (B.C. 
Dome, etc) consultant in my area first.

Darlyn Del Boca
N.W. WA



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RE: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees

[Con.Traas]

Hello George,
What you are saying is true. The nets don't cover the entire filed. However, 
when you look up, there is a lot more net than space. The individual nets might 
be 3 metres wide, while the space between nets is only 0.5 metres. I suppose it 
is to protect against hail being blown in at an angle by the wind.
But you are quite right; there must be spaces to let the hail through. 
I am not sure about the humidity. It could be a problem. But I am not close 
enough to the countries that use these nets as routine to ask the question.
Con

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of George M. Greene
Sent: 07 August 2007 14:40
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees


Con:

I can't quite imagine a full field hail covering. 
Is it strong enough to hold the hail until it 
melts?  I would think that mildew would be worse 
under a covering since the humidity would likely 
be higher.

I guess I have seen photos of nets over orchards in Mexico.

To me covers over single rows seem a lot more practical.

Best regards, George Greene



>Thank you very much Derry,
>Those covers seem like a very innovative way to 
>help avoid using fungicides. Karmijn are very 
>prone to scab and mildew, and would normally be 
>thought of as high chemical input apples.
>The way I have my trees planted, I could not use 
>a system like yours. In various parts of Europe 
>(and elsewhere) hail covers are becoming 
>commonplace, but they cover entire fields rather 
>than rows of trees. I though your system might 
>be a bit like that, but I can see it is 
>different.
>Con

-- 
George M. Greene II
68 Willow Lane
Wiscasset, ME 04578
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
207-882-8074 



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RE: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees

[Con.Traas]

Thank you very much Derry,
Those covers seem like a very innovative way to help avoid using fungicides. 
Karmijn are very prone to scab and mildew, and would normally be thought of as 
high chemical input apples.
The way I have my trees planted, I could not use a system like yours. In 
various parts of Europe (and elsewhere) hail covers are becoming commonplace, 
but they cover entire fields rather than rows of trees. I though your system 
might be a bit like that, but I can see it is different.
Con

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of derry&bill
Sent: 03 August 2007 15:03
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Apple-Crop: sheltered apple trees


Con,

You can get an idea of the shelters from my website:


And then I can answer questions.

Derry Walsh
south coastal B.C.


> By the way, I was intrigued to read that Derry's Karmijn are under
cover. I would love to hear more about this.
> Con Traas The Apple Farm Ireland


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RE: Apple-Crop: Fruit cracking/splitting

[Con.Traas]

Richard,
I do get similar cracking on my Karmijn from time to time, but not with too 
much severity, so I never went into it too carefully. It is clearly 
year-dependant, but why is a more difficult issue. I have not associated 
the problem with cold post blossom weather, as we often get that, but perhaps 
it is a factor. I think wet summer weather may play a part also.
I do feel that the trees with a lighter set are more prone, as are trees that 
don't get a program on GA4+7 for russet reduction. However, the crop load on 
trees getting the GA treatment is usually higher than that on trees which do 
not get it, so whether it is an indirect or direct effect of the GA is 
difficult to guess.
I do also feel that there are some trees that seem more prone year-on-year than 
others. Is this clonal variation, or a rootstock effect, or could there be a 
contributing latent virus, either in the rootstock or scion?
As you can see, I am contributing no answers to your question; only more 
questions. However, I do think that treating the tree in such a way to maximise 
crop load (which is seldom too heavy on Karmijn) reduces the problem.
By the way, I was intrigued to read that Derry's Karmijn are under cover. I 
would love to hear more about this.
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Ireland


-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Richard J. Ossolinski
Sent: 27 July 2007 12:36
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Fruit cracking/splitting


Thanks for the response, Derry, though the mystery remains unresolved,  
as, FWIW, we had no unusually cold weather here just after bloom.  Fun,  
though, ain't it?
Richard
On Jul 27, 2007, at 1:33 AM, derry&bill wrote:

> Richatrd,
>
> I've had the same cracks in my russeted apples : Golden Russet, St  
> Edmunds Pippin and Roxbury Russet.
>
> I think this cracking is different from the cracking seen on Cox's  
> Orange which usually is circular around the calyx and usually appears  
> later in the season.
>
> I sometimes see the circular cracking in Karmijns and I associate it  
> with the Cox's Orange parentage.
>
> I spoke to Ed Fackler about this a few years ago. In particular I was  
> discussing Hudson's Golden Gem another russeted apple.
>
> Ed thought the cracking was associated with cold weather just after  
> bloom i.e. as the young apple was developing.
>
> I do not have cracking in my Karmijns but my Karmijns are all under  
> cover so they are somewhat protected from the cold temps after  
> pollination. My russeted apples are in the open.
>
> Richard, in a separate email, I will attach some jpgs of cracked  
> russeted apples. I don't have cracks in any other apples.
> I noticed the cracks in early July, but I'm sure the cracks were there  
> from at least early June.
>
> I have temporarily misplaced my pollination chart for 2007, but it was  
> approximately to the first ten days in May.
>
> Derry Walsh
> South Coastal B.C.
> http://derrysorchardandnursery.ca
>
>
>
>
> Richard J. Ossolinski wrote:
>> Anyone have a clue as to what causes this splitting/cracking?   
>> (Thanks to Glen Koehler at UMO for creating this link)
>>> http://pmo.umext.maine.edu/apple/nosearch/cracked-apples-Oz.htm
>
>
> --- 
> 
>
>
> The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard  
>  and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon  
> Clements <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
>
> Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not  
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> responsibility for the content.
>
>
>
>
>



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Apple-Crop: Re: BEES & COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,

I certainly tend to agree with Dave. As realists we need to begin from where we 
now find ourselves, and plot a safe route forward. 

In answer to Philip's question: "Are you suggesting the possibility of 
Frankenbees...  I can see an issue with bees spreading pollen from GM crops to 
non-GM crops, but I don't see what effect it would have on the bees, 
themselves", I think there may be some issues.

As of yet, it is difficult to find scientific publications that highlight 
potential problems, but that is the nature of science, as it reports what we 
see or understand, and wild speculation does not form part of what is reported 
in the scientific literature.

One report that I did come across related to bumble bees, and the work was 
conducted by Dirk Babendreier, a scientist who has quite a few publications in 
relation to bees.

In the particular publication, three transgenic products were fed to colonies 
of bumblebees, along with sugar solution and floral pollen, and controls were 
also used. The Bt-toxin (Cry1Ab) was not found to effect bumblebees. However, 
the consumption of SBTI and GNA (the products of two different types of GM 
soya) caused colony performance to suffer. It was reported that GNA at a high 
concentration was especially harmful for bumblebees as they were not able to 
rear any offspring in this treatment.

Now I am happy to accept that this is only one report, and that more needs to 
be known before we come to the conclusion that GM crops are harmful to bees. 
However, this does demonstrate that GM crops have the potential to be harmful 
to bees, and that the toxins that we deliberately want GM crops to produce, may 
have harmful side-effects on non-target organisms such as bees.

There are other issues that it might be interesting to speculate about (such as 
what if bacteria in the digestive system of a bee adopted a gene from the 
pollen that the bee is consuming; for instance a gene that codes for the 
production of an insecticide; could the bacteria in the bee poison it?). The 
possibility of this happening has been demonstrated by the adoption of genetic 
information from GM plants into the gut bacteria of humans. It does not raise 
the possibility of Frankenbees, but it does raise the possibility of bees with 
Franken bacteria in their systems.

It seems to me that prudence would dictate that we should move forward with 
caution. I do not suspect that colony collapse disorder is related to GM crops, 
as it seems to also occur in countries where few GM crops are grown. As usual, 
(and as the Steiner quote earlier implies), there is more unknown than known.

Con Traas

The Apple Farm
 

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave 
Rosenberger
Sent: 15 May 2007 04:15
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES & COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER


The only way to avoid "possible negative ramifications of man's 
meddling with the natural order of things"  would be for us to revert to a 
hunter-gatherer social structure, and even that would have its impacts!  All of 
agriculture including organic agriculture has negative impacts if one defines 
negative as being anything other than an untouched ecosystem.  And if that is 
not where the line should be drawn, then who gets to decide where in fact the 
line does get drawn? 
Concerning bee activity, we have about 20 acres of research orchards at 
the Hudson Valley Lab and we have never brought in bees for pollination, nor am 
I aware of any neighbors within a quarter mile who keep bees.  We still seem to 
get plenty of wild bees and other kinds of pollinators coming out of the woods 
that surround our orchards, although the honeybee population dropped off 
dramatically several years ago when the mite problems were killing both 
domestic and wild bees.  This year, we had more honeybee activity than I have 
seen in many years.
My point is that domesticated honeybees tended by beekeepers are not 
the only source of honeybee pollinators (or is it pollenizers? I can never 
remember). Managed hives are undoubtedly  important on large farms, in areas 
where crops are grown in artificial climates (i.e., irrigated deserts),  or in 
regions where agriculture has removed all of the natural habitat for wild bees. 
 Nevertheless, my experience in watching bees suggests that wild bees would be 
around for many years even if all of the beekeepers suddenly collapsed over 
night.


I suppose the possibility of Frankenbees exists and I would to hear from an 
expert about all the  possible negative ramifications of mans medalling with 
the natural order of things.

 

Jim Friedler


-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philip 
Smith
Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 11:13 AM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Re: BEES & COLONY COLLAPSE DISORDER


Are you suggesting the possibility of Frank

RE: Apple-Crop: Pollinating bees

[Con.Traas]

Hello Jim,
I think that the pesticides that are most harmful to bees have been replaced by 
safer types over the past few years, and bee keepers are fairly aware of what 
pesticide kills look like. This seems to be something else.
Con

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Nadean 
Summers
Sent: 29 March 2007 15:28
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Pollinating bees


maybe the chemical sprays are catching up with us and the bees 
Jim F.NY state

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of 
Con.Traas
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:12 AM
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Apple-Crop: Pollinating bees



Has there been any comment among apple growers in the US on the continuing 
sharp decline in bee numbers? 
I read the following recently, and believe that a few parts of Europe are 
beginning to see localised colony collapses also.

Since last November, the US has seen a decline in bee populations so dramatic 
that it eclipses all previous incidences of mass mortality. Beekeepers on the 
east coast of the United States complain that they have lost more than 70 
percent of their stock since late last year, while the west coast has seen a 
decline of up to 60 percent. In an article in its business section in late 
February, the New York Times calculated the damage US agriculture would suffer 
if bees died out. Experts at Cornell University in upstate New York have 
estimated the value bees generate -- by pollinating fruit and vegetable plants, 
almond trees and animal feed like clover -- at more than $14 billion. 

Scientists call the mysterious phenomenon "Colony Collapse Disorder" (CCD), and 
it is fast turning into a national catastrophe of sorts. A number of 
universities and government agencies have formed a "CCD Working Group" to 
search for the causes of the calamity, but have so far come up empty-handed. 
But, like Dennis vanEngelsdorp, an apiarist with the Pennsylvania Department of 
Agriculture, they are already referring to the problem as a potential "AIDS for 
the bee industry." 

One thing is certain: Millions of bees have simply vanished. In most cases, all 
that's left in the hives are the doomed offspring. But dead bees are nowhere to 
be found -- neither in nor anywhere close to the hives. Diana Cox-Foster, a 
member of the CCD Working Group, told The Independent that researchers were 
"extremely alarmed," adding that the crisis "has the potential to devastate the 
US beekeeping industry." It is particularly worrisome, she said, that the bees' 
death is accompanied by a set of symptoms "which does not seem to match 
anything in the literature." 

In many cases, scientists have found evidence of almost all known bee viruses 
in the few surviving bees found in the hives after most have disappeared. Some 
had five or six infections at the same time and were infested with fungi -- a 
sign, experts say, that the insects' immune system may have collapsed. The 
scientists are also surprised that bees and other insects usually leave the 
abandoned hives untouched. 

Nearby bee populations or parasites would normally raid the honey and pollen 
stores of colonies that have died for other reasons, such as excessive winter 
cold. "This suggests that there is something toxic in the colony itself which 
is repelling them," says Cox-Foster. 

Apple-Crop: Pollinating bees

[Con.Traas]

Has there been any comment among apple growers in the US on the continuing 
sharp decline in bee numbers? 
I read the following recently, and believe that a few parts of Europe are 
beginning to see localised colony collapses also.
Since last November, the US has seen a decline in bee populations so dramatic 
that it eclipses all previous incidences of mass mortality. Beekeepers on the 
east coast of the United States complain that they have lost more than 70 
percent of their stock since late last year, while the west coast has seen a 
decline of up to 60 percent. In an article in its business section in late 
February, the New York Times calculated the damage US agriculture would suffer 
if bees died out. Experts at Cornell University in upstate New York have 
estimated the value bees generate -- by pollinating fruit and vegetable plants, 
almond trees and animal feed like clover -- at more than $14 billion. 
Scientists call the mysterious phenomenon "Colony Collapse Disorder" (CCD), and 
it is fast turning into a national catastrophe of sorts. A number of 
universities and government agencies have formed a "CCD Working Group" to 
search for the causes of the calamity, but have so far come up empty-handed. 
But, like Dennis vanEngelsdorp, an apiarist with the Pennsylvania Department of 
Agriculture, they are already referring to the problem as a potential "AIDS for 
the bee industry." 
One thing is certain: Millions of bees have simply vanished. In most cases, all 
that's left in the hives are the doomed offspring. But dead bees are nowhere to 
be found -- neither in nor anywhere close to the hives. Diana Cox-Foster, a 
member of the CCD Working Group, told The Independent that researchers were 
"extremely alarmed," adding that the crisis "has the potential to devastate the 
US beekeeping industry." It is particularly worrisome, she said, that the bees' 
death is accompanied by a set of symptoms "which does not seem to match 
anything in the literature." 
In many cases, scientists have found evidence of almost all known bee viruses 
in the few surviving bees found in the hives after most have disappeared. Some 
had five or six infections at the same time and were infested with fungi -- a 
sign, experts say, that the insects' immune system may have collapsed. The 
scientists are also surprised that bees and other insects usually leave the 
abandoned hives untouched. 
Nearby bee populations or parasites would normally raid the honey and pollen 
stores of colonies that have died for other reasons, such as excessive winter 
cold. "This suggests that there is something toxic in the colony itself which 
is repelling them," says Cox-Foster. 

RE: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same)

[Con.Traas]

Hello again Chris and all contributors,
I hope that I did not come across as too negative about the potential of scab 
(or other pest or disease) resistant varieties. What I hoped to get across is 
that nature is not static, and that it is virtually inevitable that resistance 
will be broken down by the pathogen, sooner or later. As was outlined by 
Jean-Marc, this has already been documented for Vf scab resistance. So 
resistance is not a solution in itself, and once it is broken down, it is too 
late, so it needs to be preserved by thoughtful orchard practice.
I think the reality is that we need to consider using whatever we can to 
control pests and diseases. That may include forecasting models, sanitation, 
trapping systems, resistance, chemical control, and all the other mechanisms 
that many growers are already familiar with, and I am sure, some that have not 
been thought of yet.
I agree with Chris about the potential benefit of fire-blight resistance; it 
would be revolutionary. However, if that resistance is to come via genetic 
modification, then we need to be very careful to assess if there will be any 
potential negative consequences, and if there are, to make sure that "the cure 
is not worse than the disease".
Con
 
PS. Just to get back to the sustainability question. 
If a kg of apples gives the consumer 2300 kJ of energy, then it is no longer 
sustainable to eat these apples if it takes more than 2300kJ to produce the 
apples. If the apples are grown in your back yard, then clearly it does not 
take as much energy to go out and pick and eat one as the energy you will get 
from it. If you had to walk 1000 miles to get it, then you would probably 
starve on the way, so this is not a good proposition.
If a truck has to drive 1000 miles to get them, the situation becomes less 
clear, especially when you consider the energy that had to be put into growing 
the fruits, spraying them, picking them, and so forth. By rough calculation, if 
an apple has to travel more than 3000 road miles in a fully-laden truck to get 
to market, it is costing more energy to make its journey, than the final 
consumer is getting by eating it. 
 
 

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: 28 March 2007 16:05
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same)


Bill:  Do you have a spray program controlling scab on other varieties?
 
And my addition to many previous comments of recent weeks.  Reistance to apple 
scab offers considerable help to growers that can market those varieties.  
Consider the potential benefit(s) of fire blight resistance in apple and pear, 
whether it is natural of GMO.
 
Chris Doll
 
 
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Sent: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same)


Gary 
 
I'm not aware of apple scab resistance having developed against Vf the Vf gene, 
specifically the PRI varieties. I have had Pristine, Enterprise, Dayton, 
Liberty, Redfree and Goldrush planted here for 10 years and they are very 
clean. Perhaps others can correct me. 
 
Bill Shoemaker, Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops 
University of Illinois - St Charles Horticulture Research Center 
www.nres.uiuc.edu/faculty/directory/shoemaker_wh.html 
 
 
> There have been several postings about Vf resistant scab being a > 
> possibility 
> since most resistant varieties share this gene. However, these varieties 
> have been around for quite a while now--is there any information about 
> resistance showing up anywhere? Is there something different about Vf 
> resistance that would save it from what happened to Baldwin or Bramley? 
> 
> Gary Mount, Grower 
> Princeton, NJ 
> 
> - Original Message - > From: "Bill Shoemaker" < [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>  > 
> To: "Apple-Crop" < apple-crop@virtualorchard.net 
>  > 
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 7:05 AM 
> Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same) 
> 
> 
>> Steve 
>> 
>> I've been growing Liberty and Pristine for about 10 years on B9 for 
>> evaluation in northern Illinois. It's taken awhile to appreciate them. >> 
>> But 
>> last year we had a very nice crop of Pristine. For the first time, I 
> really 
>> enjoyed them. Flavor was great, flesh color and texture were very good >> 
>> for 
>> such an early apple (second week of August). I gave quite a few away and 
>> people were very fond of them. But Liberty has not developed the culinary 
>> quality I would want in a fresh apple. What are the characteristics of 
>> Liberty that you find compelling? 
>> 
>> Bill Shoemaker, Sr Research Specialist, Food Crops 
>> University of Illinois - St Charles Horticulture Research Center 
>> www.nres.uiuc.edu/faculty/directory/shoemaker_wh.html 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The apples I rely most on are all products of breeding 
>> >>programs, and the two I would most loath giving up are PRI var

RE: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same)

[Con.Traas]

Hello again everyone,
Of course Baldwin went from being less susceptible to more scab-susceptible. 
Growers can see this happening with all sorts of varieties, when they are 
planted in the same place, and the apple trees do not mutate into a different 
variety. It has happened here with Bramley, which was once considered virtually 
immune, and is now highly susceptible to whatever race of scab has evolved to 
attack it. It has also happened to varieties with the Vf resistance gene, for 
which the apple scab has developed a corresponding virulence gene. And to make 
matters more interesting, if you plant four varieties which all have Vf 
resistance (presuming no other resistance genes are present in the trees), then 
I bet that the scab that evolves the virulence gene for one of these will be 
able to attack all the others as well. So relying on one gene for resistance is 
just another monoculture as far as the scab is concerned. And I accept that 
multi-gene resistance is being worked on. But the work involved in getting a 
multi-gene scab resistant (and possibly pest-resistant) apple, which also has 
enough taste and grower-friendly traits should not be underestimated - almost 
impossible I would think. And if such a variety is bred, everyone will of 
course plant it, because it is so brilliant, and then the pests and diseases 
will inevitably become resistant...
And Steve is right about the heirloom varieties. Most have very few useful 
characteristics. That is not to say that they do not possess useful genetics, 
and they should of course be preserved for their diversity and for what they 
might give us in the future. But planting most of them for commercial gain, 
even by direct sales like I engage in, where looks are not important, would not 
work. Some of the varieties only taste well for a short few days. Some get 
bruised if you pick them, some are only suitable for immediate eating, and the 
problems are manifold.
Regarding the "cull" apples sold in eastern Europe, many of those are not some 
ancient long-forgotten varieties, but common 20th centaury varieties like 
Idared, which have come and gone in the US and Western Europe. And I don't 
think that the consumers there know anything that we don't. They just have no 
choice, or at least no choice at the price point that they can afford. That is 
not to say that their apples taste any worse than what is available here; that 
depends on many factors; however given the chance to improve grade-out and 
prices (which are determined by consumer demand) by reducing damage caused by 
insects and diseases, most sane growers would decide to attempt to do this, 
either using organic or conventional pest management options. Ensuring that 
particular apples are free from pests and diseases does not affect their taste. 
Which is why I think organic fruit will not taste different from conventional, 
unless other factors such as variety, maturity, provenance, nutrient content 
etc. are considered.
As someone who believes in the usefulness of science, I have little time for 
intuition. I remember in chemistry class, a guy who decided to taste the white 
crystalline material which we had been given to analyse, because it looked like 
salt. And it tasted like salt too, so he called it sodium chloride. As it 
happened he was wrong. And he could have been killed. Intuition is no 
substitute for proper analysis.
Con Traas

PS. I was asked about paclobutrazol in an email during this discussion. It is a 
gibberellin inhibitor; i.e. if you use it the plant produces less gibberellins. 
Thus you get shorter internodes (less extension growth), more compact trees 
(less pruning required), more flower buds, better red fruit colour (because of 
less shading), more productivity (less energy wasted by the tree producing wood 
which will only be pruned off), and less calcium disorders in the fruits. If 
trees are already cropping at an optimum level, and not producing excess 
vegetative growth, the use of such a chemical will be of little benefit.





-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Steve Demuth
Sent: 27 March 2007 21:13
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same)



>Heirloom apples are, in my opinion (at one time I was growing over 
>1000 varieties), both over-rated and under-rated.  Over-rated, 
>because many of them simply were not particularly adaptable.  They 
>worked well in some particular region or use, but were quite awful 
>when moved to different conditions.  Many had very poor commerical 
>characteristics (poor hanging, extremely short picking period, 
>sizing issues, disease susceptibility), whatever their visual or 
>taste appeal.  On the other hand, as other posters here have pointed 
>out, there were some real gems in the heirloom orchard, that simply 
>disappeared in the 20th century shift from local and homestead 
>orchards to increasingly commercial, highly managed 
>p

RE: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same)

[Con.Traas]

Hello Kenny,
If this is addressed to me, I certainly do know that this is being considered. 
And there are good scientific reasons for it, as DDT is relatively safe for 
humans and does kill Malaria-carrying mosquitoes (although resistance of some 
mosquitoes is a problem). There obviously needs to be a considered trade-off 
between the ability of DDT to stop the spread of Malaria, and the damage it 
causes because it accumulates in the food chain, causing fatalities and decline 
in predatory bird species due to thinning of egg shells, and whether the loss 
of these birds might impact with more vermin species causing problems later on, 
etc. etc.
I have no problem with a  decision being made one way or the other, as long as 
people decide that the benefit is worth the negative aspects.
Regarding the return on investment for farmers, I do not believe that this has 
anything to do with whether they are considered businessmen or not. It is to do 
with supply and demand. People want to eat the same amount regardless of 
whether there is an excess of supply or a shortage. If there is too much grain 
produced (or beef or whatever), no more will be sold, and prices will fall, and 
returns will be negative. Desmond O'Rourke has already demonstrated that this 
is also true for the US apple crop, and that if the crop is greater than x 
boxes, prices begin to fall, and that if it is greater than xx boxes, that 
prices fall so much, that even the extra amount sold does not make up for the 
lower prices, and that total money returns to the industry fall.
Unfortunately for farmers, they were led to believe that the only way to 
survive was to produce more, and make more money. The reverse was actually 
true, as people are prepared to pay plenty for food if they are hungry, so for 
farmers, a shortage is more profitable than an excess.
Of course, for the population in general, industrial agriculture brought great 
advances in food availability, choice, quality, price and so forth, and I would 
not change that, but the farmer paid a heavy price for the over-production that 
came with it. Now it seems that the impending diversion of plant biomass into 
fuel production may soon bring about a change where food becomes scarcer, and 
guess what; prices will rise again. And this time the extra production will be 
needed by society, I suspect.
It is interesting times that we live in.
Con
 

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: 15 March 2007 01:52
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same)



You do know that DDT is being looked at very hard as the best product to use in 
third world countries for the control of malaria. This idea is being promoted 
by even papers such as the new york times. 
the only way that agriculture will have a chance is for farmers to be 
considered businessmen and not the little old man and woman that show the 
pitchfork and the shack. Only in mid-size farms would we put the large 
investment and be satisfied with the small or negative return. All other 
entities would have left long ago as a matter of fact they did.
 
Kenny Barnwell




  _  

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL 
at   AOL.com. 

RE: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same)

[Con.Traas]

Hello again,
I also wanted to comment as follows on Steve's observations.
I am not an organic grower, and do not agree with their perspective on 
everything. However, I do feel that the early adopters of organic are very good 
people, who did the rest of us a service, by being critical of the general 
consensus of the greatness of all agricultural advancements, some of which, 
though we did not know it at the time, had serious downsides as well. It is 
important to look critically and objectively at every new development, to 
assess whether it really can deliver what it proposes, and whether there are 
any potential downsides that have not yet become obvious.
It is also important for organic producers to think critically of their own 
stance, and find if they can also do things differently. And science is a great 
vehicle to use in this observation.
>From my perspective, I do have some problems with the adaptation of 
>genetically modified plants, and I think the organic groups are right to be 
>wary.
Apart from the nasty behaviour of corporations against farmers regarding 
violations of their patent rights (I have a problem with the practice of 
allowing genes to be patented), there are some unresolved questions (as well as 
some which have probably have not even been thought of yet).
Human health:
Antibiotic resistant marker (ARM) genes were often added to the genetic 
cassette (the gene segment being added to the plant to be transformed.
After insertion of the new genes, antibiotics are applied to the cells.
These kill un-transformed cells, leaving the few transformed ones.
Critics said that it was a bad idea to allow these transformed plants having 
genes that are coding for resistance to antibiotics into the environment, but 
the GM proponents said it was not a worry, because it could not happen.
Now, quite a few years later, it is now considered bad practice to leave ARM 
genes in transformed plants, because of the small but real risk of 
incorporation of this DNA into the gut bacteria of plants or animals than eat 
modified plants.
This is because of a trial (the only one ever conducted to see if this could 
happen). Volunteers were fed a single meal of a burger and a milk shake 
containing GM Soya. (Study conducted in 2002 by UK Food Standards Agency). 
There were 12 healthy volunteers and 7 volunteers who had previously had their 
colons surgically removed. In healthy volunteers there was no evidence that gut 
bacteria had taken up the DNA. In three of the seven people without a complete 
digestive tract, it was found that bacteria had taken up modified DNA from the 
Soya. Implies that gut bacteria could take advantageous genes from GM food, to 
enhance their own characteristics, and the end point of such a transformation 
is completely unpredictable.
There is also the issue of allergens to human health:
The genes that are transferred from the donor organism are not necessarily 
selected individually.
As a consequence, unintentional transfers can take place.
In 1993, a company developed a modified soybean (producing extra methionine; a 
desirable trait) using donor DNA from the Brazil nut.
The modified soybean produced immunological reactions in people usually 
allergic to Brazil nut.
Development was discontinued, and the modified soybeans destroyed.
The difficulty this example highlights is that until individual genes coding 
for desirable traits can be selectively transferred, without risk of also 
transferring undesirable genes, or the mutations inevitably associated with the 
transfer process as currently undertaken can be eliminated, plants posing a 
risk to human or animal health could be accidentally put on sale.
This is because of the regulatory concept of "substantial equivalence" - 
Basically, genetically modified plants do not need to be tested for safety 
before being released, as they are considered substantially equivalent to 
plants produced in conventional breeding.
Another allergy issue was highlighted in a paper published in November 2005, 
when a pest resistant field pea developed in Australia for use as a pasture 
crop was shown to cause an allergic reaction in mice. The gene in question, 
which inhibits amylase (a dietary starch digestion enzyme), was transferred 
from beans to peas. What the results showed is that the protein, when 
synthesized in pea leaves had a different immunogenicity than when it was 
isolated from bean leaves (the native form). 
This was considered surprising to the researchers (though not to sceptics) but 
was thought to be related to the presence of slightly different carbohydrate 
chains in each plant.
Environmental effects:
Whatever about the possible health effects of consuming GM foods, at least 
consumer have choice in this regard. Once a GM crop is released to the 
environment, it is impossible to recall it, and environmental considerations 
should be treated with importance.
The effect on non-target organisms, in for example, consuming Bt crops

RE: Apple-Crop: Time article

[Con.Traas]

Hello Kurt,
I never thought about it much, but definitely prefer the word sustainable to 
unsustainable. I run an orchard, and it is economically viable, profitable, 
rewarding, successful (at least some would say so), and I, like you, would like 
to be a responsible steward of what we have been given. However, to be that, I 
think that what I do needs to be sustainable. If I were to engage in some 
orchard practice that meant that I lost 5% of my top soil each year, I might be 
profitable for 20 years, but after that I would run out of soil, and business. 
I would classify this as unsustainable. If I use a water resource for 
irrigation in such a way that I deplete it over time (unsustainable), again, 
this is clearly harmful in the long run, and will end up closing my farm. If I 
use it it a sustainable way, I can go on forever. So I like sustainable.
Obviously, some forms of sustainability or unsustainability are not so obvious. 
If the inhabitants of our planet are going to use up the fossil fuels that 
amassed over a period of 300 million years in a mere 500 years, and if our 
production of fruits depends on these fossil fuels for fertiliser production, 
plant protection chemicals, fuel to deliver produce to market etc., then how 
sustainable is our fruit production?
I personally do not think that we can answer this yet, as it depends on what 
other forms of energy we can harness as current forms grow scarce. But I do 
think that it is a good idea to consider the sustainability of what we do, as 
the most profitable orchard today might not be the most sustainable, but a more 
sustainable orchard today is likely to be more profitable tomorrow.
Perhaps in the US, sustainable agriculture has come to mean the something like 
subsistence agriculture, which you nicely describe as being stuck under water 
with just a straw to breath through. However, over here, it is something that 
most growers are happy to consider.
I wish you the best of luck with your pruning.
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Cahir
Ireland

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kurt 
Alstede
Sent: 13 March 2007 13:21
To: 'Apple-Crop'
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Time article



Growers,

 

Does anyone else disdain the word "sustainable" as much as I do?  Setting aside 
the USDA definition, I cannot help but have a minds eye image of being stuck 
under water and breathing through a little straw that just pokes above the 
surface.  Indeed, I am sustaining, but the situation really sucks.  Frankly, 
that is not the way that I want to exist in commercial agriculture.  My 
personal desire is to be a very responsible steward of God's resources, enjoy 
my work, and to make a good living...ie make money.  Certainly there are better 
words to use than sustainable...for instance "economically viable," 
"profitable," "successful," "rewarding," etc.  Who really came up with the term 
"sustainable" anyway?  I don't believe it was the full time farm community.  I 
think that the term "sustainable" really shows the hand of the greens who are 
not at all interested in your or my families making a comfortable living and 
having a successful business, but only interested in their own agenda and use 
us whenever we fit in and find us quickly disposable when we don't.

 

Happy Pruning,

 

 

Kurt W. Alstede

General Manager

Alstede Farms, LLC

P. O. Box 278

Chester, New Jersey 07930

United States of America

 

Tel.  908-879-7189

 

 

 

From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of alan 
surprenant
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 8:16 PM
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Time article

 

i couldn't agree more with arthur's observations.  looking at the progress 
towards sustainable agriculture, in our case- tree fruit growing, over the long 
term (as arthur does) i can see so many good things that have come to be.  ron 
prokopy and the work he and his people did (and still do) ,  the ever 
increasing knowledge of soil health and it's effect on fruit growing, and folks 
like michael phillips and his work at always pushing the organic envelope, have 
done much to aid this 'healthier' direction.

my disdain for much of the federal organic certification aside,  these are just 
mere bumps on the road towards sustainable agriculture.

my question is how can we spend so time writing our opinions on-line when 
there's still so much pruning left to do? (it's probably a function of how deep 
the snow is in the orchard)

alan surprenant brook farm orchardashfield, massachusetts


  _  


From:  Arthur Harvey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To:  "Apple-Crop" 
To:  Apple-Crop 
Subject:  RE: Apple-Crop: Time article
Date:  Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:50:04 -0700 (PDT)
>I could agree with most of what you say about organic foods, but I'm not sure 
>that what
>you regard as silliness is the same as the silliness I observe.   In 
>conventional food
>standards it  is fa

Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles (and medical question)

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
I have received a very comprehensive reply from Dr. Erdal Ozkan of Ohio State 
University, who sent me two papers detailing results of trial work done on 
Lechler air induction nozzles in the US and Europe 
(http://www.lechlerag.com/products/air_1.html ). While these are not quite the 
same as the nozzles I was considering, I suspect that they share many 
characteristics in common with the Albuz type (which I have now ordered  
http://www.albuz.saint-gobain.com/anglais/nouveautes.asp ).
The broad consensus is that these nozzles reduce drift dramatically, and that 
penetration through thick foliage is improved, even to the extent that apparent 
"drift" is visible in the next row of trees. It appears certain that what many 
would consider "real drift" (i.e. loss of fine particles being carried on air 
currents to adjacent fields or further away) is virtually eliminated. However, 
loss of sprayed chemicals to the orchard floor is increased, as once the larger 
droplets move out of the air current generated by the sprayer, they quickly 
fall to the ground (unless they hit foliage of course).
On coverage (and hence efficacy in combating at least some organisms), it does 
appear that the break-up of the larger air-filled droplet amalgam loses out 
somewhat. While the air/water drops do break up in the canopy into smaller 
drops, this does not happen to a sufficient extent to make up for the improved 
coverage provided by the smaller drops of a standard hollow cone nozzle. 
The general scientific opinion is that air induction nozzles do offer options 
for the future, and that as people use them more, adjustments can be made to 
how they are used (based on experience or further research), to make up for the 
slight problems associated with the coverage as noted in the two studies. I 
certainly think that the suggestion made by the previous contributor (whose 
email I accidentally deleted) of replacing the uppermost nozzles with 
air-induction types is a good one, and I may very well proceed in this way 
myself.
The only other comment which seems obvious is that, for air-induction nozzles, 
it is vital to have a sprayer with a strong air output, as without this, too 
many of the heavy drops generated by this type of nozzle will fall to the 
orchard floor before hitting foliage.
I am also wondering if I should have selected the smallest aperture type of 
this nozzle (which I didn't), so that I could operate at a higher pressure 
(without increasing water volume per acre), so that the droplets would be 
intermediate in size between the large ones considered in the studies, and the 
normal small droplets produced by a standard hollow-cone nozzle?
Time will tell.
Con Traas

PS. 
Regarding my friend and fellow grower, about whom I asked the medical question, 
the news is now very upbeat. After being moved to Sweden, attached to some 
specialist machinery, and taken off chemotherapy and anti-cancer drugs, his 
immune system was able to recover enough to fight off the fungal lung 
infection. He came back to an Irish hospital, and his recovery is continuing. 
He has recovered full lung function, is able to talk again, and is gaining some 
weight. The doctors say that with physiotherapy he will soon be walking, and 
might be able to return home in two months or less. The cancer has not 
reappeared, and thus he will not be receiving any treatment for this in the 
immediate future. He has been informed by his family of the help that the 
subscribers to this list lent in searching for information, and he is deeply 
touched by this. As it happens, the organism causing the pneumonia was never 
positively identified, so this will remain a mystery.

RE: Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles

[Con.Traas]

Thank you Win, and Dr. Grande,
I look forward to hearing more.
Con Traas

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: 21 February 2007 05:47
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Fwd: Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles


Apple Croppers- I asked Dr. Grande for his perspective on this technology-
Win C.
Begin forwarded message:


From: John Grande < [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: February 20, 2007 11:09:00 AM EST
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles


Good morning Win -- the nozzles that you are referring to I believe are 
produced in Europe and distributed in the United States by Hypro -- which is a 
manufacturer of spray pumps.  The nozzles you referred to ...air induction 
nozzles which basically have an air intake and a mixing chamber to create spray 
droplets with air bubbles. As the gentleman pointed out….  Teejet also 
manufactures a very similar nozzle but I don't believe they make ceramic 
versions which are beneficial for high pressure spraying along with abrasive 
materials such as wetable powders.  See the use links -- 

  http://www.teejet.com/MS/TeeJet/product_Detail.asp?ID=23 
<http://www.teejet.com/MS/TeeJet/product_Detail.asp?ID=23&SUB=true> &SUB=true

http://www.hypropumps.com/Spray/en-us/Products/SprayTips/BandingAndDirected/FanSpray/

I would guess it might be better to utilize Teejet brand for United States 
built equipment but really not sure.  There might be a great cost factor 
between the two manufacturers and again the ceramic versus stainless steel 
orifice.  My take is that most of the nozzles today have good wear 
characteristics.

I did a small amount of testing of the air induction nozzle from Teejet.  It 
looked interesting but as far as tree fruit goes and especially based upon your 
requirements at the Snyder farm to create a vortex of spray droplets that role 
within the tree I'm not sure air bubble droplets will perform in the same way.  
They do however break up on impact and spread.  This could be a Snyder farm 
demonstration project for one of your field days.  Regards John

John Grande Ph.D - Director

Rutgers University

New Jersey Agricultural Experiment Station

Snyder Research and Extension Farm

140 Locust Grove Rd.

Pittstown,NJ 08867

908 730 9419

campus 2-4000 ext 4201






  _  


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 10:49 AM
To: John Grande
Subject: Fwd: Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles





John, any experience with these?





Win Cowgill
Professor, County Agricultural Agent
County Extension Department Head
PO Box 2500
6 Gauntt Place
Flemington, NJ 08822
Phone-908-788-1344

FAx 908-806-4735
E-Mail:  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web:  <http://www.VirtualOrchard.net/win> http://www.VirtualOrchard.net/win











Begin forwarded message:





From: "Con.Traas" <  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Date: February 20, 2007 9:10:09 AM EST

To:  <mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> apple-crop@virtualorchard.net

Subject: Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles

Reply-To: Apple-Crop <  <mailto:apple-crop@virtualorchard.net> 
apple-crop@virtualorchard.net>



Hello all, 
I am considering trying the new drift-reducing Albuz hollow cone nozzles (see  
<http://www.albuz.saint-gobain.com/anglais/nouveautes.asp> 
http://www.albuz.saint-gobain.com/anglais/nouveautes.asp), which are supposed 
to give far bigger droplet sizes (apparently each drop is made up of many 
mini-drops mixed with air bubbles), which break up into optimal size droplets 
on impact with plant foliage. Have any of you used this type of technology for 
fungicides (or insecticides) and what do you think of it?

Con Traas 
The Apple Farm 
Moorstown 
Cahir 
Co. Tipperary 
Ireland

RE: Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles

[Con.Traas]

Hello Kevin,
I normally operate with a mean drop size of about 80-90 microns. The thing 
about these nozzles is that they give drops of 500 microns, that are supposed 
to break up into small drops (but I don't know what size) once they contact the 
plant foliage. Clearly, with such large drops, drift should not be an issue, 
but if the drops don't break up as promised, then problems of areas receiving 
too much and too little active ingredient will certainly arise. I think 
Maurice's suggestion of the water sensitive cards will be very useful to check 
how the nozzles actually perform, but I'd rather not buy the nozzles to later 
find out that the water sensitive card says that they don't do what they claim. 
I might have to find out myself, and at least then I can let you know what I 
think.
Con Traas
 

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Kevin 
Sanders
Sent: 20 February 2007 22:36
To: Apple-Crop
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles


My own thoughts are that you should be careful ..If you have some thoughts on 
trying this you should remember that the best coverage is applied by spraying 
as constant a drop size as you can manage in the 100 micro range .The larger 
drops lead you to deposits of chemical in small area's and not complete 
coverage of the surface .
Kevin Sanders 

Apple-Crop: Spray Nozzles

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
I am considering trying the new drift-reducing Albuz hollow cone nozzles (see 
http://www.albuz.saint-gobain.com/anglais/nouveautes.asp), which are supposed 
to give far bigger droplet sizes (apparently each drop is made up of many 
mini-drops mixed with air bubbles), which break up into optimal size droplets 
on impact with plant foliage. Have any of you used this type of technology for 
fungicides (or insecticides) and what do you think of it?
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Moorstown
Cahir
Co. Tipperary
Ireland

RE: Apple-Crop: Apple Replant Syndrome

[Con.Traas]

Scott,
They are great apples, but I'd reckon that Australia is too hot for them, 
unless it is a really elevated site.
Con

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL 
PROTECTED]
Sent: 09 January 2007 18:34
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Apple Replant Syndrome


Why plant granny smith? It is very ubiquitous in the market, while there are 
many great vars ie. holstein, jonagold etc available with better flavor. 

RE: Apple-Crop: Apple Replant Syndrome

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
I agree with most of what came before, but would like to add that here we 
consider apple trees to be beneficial to the soil, adding organic matter to the 
soil, and enhancing soil microbiology, provided applications of certain 
specific pesticides are avoided. Certainly, crops like cereals take a lot more 
nutrients from the soil, and deplete its organic matter content.
On the specific issue of SARD, that can be a real problem. Personally, I prefer 
to wait a few years after removing an orchard before replanting, and use break 
crops in the meantime, and I also attempt to homogenise the soil in the 
interim. I prefer to have a fairly uniform new planting, which, if weak, can be 
given extra water, fertiliser, and compost perhaps, rather than having some 
strong rows and some weak ones, which require differing management.
Regarding Lee's initial question, I would feel that if you are planting trees 
on MM106 at only 1.5 metres apart, that over-vigour rather than weakness will 
be the eventual problem. MM106 is only semi-dwarfing, and certainly in this 
part of the world, we would not be planting trees on this rootstock so closely 
together, no matter how long apples had been grown on the site beforehand. I 
would guess that MM106 planted this closely will produce trees of twenty feet 
or more, which is, I think, much higher than optimum.
Con Traas

-Original Message-
From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dave 
Rosenberger
Sent: 08 January 2007 04:47
To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net
Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Apple Replant Syndrome


Quick addendum:  Those wanting more detailed info on extensive field trials 
related to apple replant disease in NY may want to check the following web site 
http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/fq/spring01/FQSpring01.pdf 
and ready the article titled as follows:

Developing An Integrated Program for Diagnosis and Control of Replant Problems 
In New York Apple Orchards
Ian A. Merwin, Rachel Byard,Terence L. Robinson, Stephen Carpenter, Stephen A. 
Hoying, Kevin A. Iungerman, and Michael Fargione

Soil bioassays and fumigation were not  particularly effective in NY!
-- 
** 
Dave Rosenberger 
Professor of Plant PathologyOffice:  845-691-7231
Cornell University's Hudson Valley Lab Fax:845-691-2719
P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528Cell: 845-594-3060
  http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/faculty/rosenberger/

Apple-Crop: Warm year ahead

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
According to the British Meteorological Association, there is a 60% chance that 
2007 will be the hottest year on the planet since records began.
Although this is a further indication of global warming induced by human 
activities, which is bad news for humankind in the medium to long term, it also 
gives us as growers an indication of what we might need to be ready for next 
season.
In Ireland, it has become apparent that dry spells last a little longer than 
they used to, and because the temperatures are also a little higher, this means 
additional plant stress. On my own farm, all of the younger trees are 
irrigated, and in the forthcoming year, I plan to extend the area irrigated to 
include at least another five acres of older orchards, and all strawberry 
plantations.
I find it quite amazing now, but years ago, drought was seldom an issue, even 
with field grown strawberries, and now it is rare that drought is not an issue. 
It really is quite a change.
On the positive front, once the irrigation is in place, when you consider that 
Irish temperatures are usually less than optimal, the higher temperatures are 
beneficial, resulting in higher rates of photosynthesis and greater crop 
yields. On the negative side, I need to be ready for infestations of pests that 
were not able to thrive in the cooler weather a few years ago. The main pest 
that has been advancing is codling moth, and we have gone from a position 
thirty years ago where codling moth only occasionally caused problems, even 
when we did not spray for it, to one where is it is causing problems, even when 
we are using fairly comprehensive mating disruption programs. It is quite 
amazing.
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Ireland

PS. My friend has shown an improvement in his condition. The doctors were never 
able to identify the fungal pathogen causing his pneumonia, but whatever it is, 
it is disappearing. He is now breathing using his own lung muscles, although he 
is still getting oxygen-enriched air. While he is still sedated to remain 
unconscious, this may change soon. His family are very grateful for the 
information on pathogens provided by people here on this forum.








---


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Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent
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Apple-Crop: Medical question

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
I really would like to thank you most sincerely for your contributions. Between 
what I have learned from you all on list, and some off-list replies, it appears 
that there are at least six fungal organisms that rot apples, that can also 
cause pneumonia in immuno-compromised patients. In case anyone would like to 
know, the list includes Mucor, Pennicillium, Aspergillus, Alternaria, Fusarium 
and Cladosporium.
There also appear to be many yeasts that live on leaves and fruits that can 
also invade the lungs of patients.
I never cease to be amazed by the amount of information and knowledge that 
people on this list have at their disposal.
Again, many thanks,
Con Traas

Apple-Crop: Medical question

[Con.Traas]

Hello all,
I have the unfortunate task of asking you what might turn out to be a life and 
death question.
An apple growing friend of mine contracted cancer some time ago, and was 
getting chemotherapy and other treatments. As a result of his suppressed immune 
system, he subsequently contracted what appears to be an unusual fungal 
infection of his lungs. All efforts to diagnose this in Ireland, and now in 
Sweden, have failed.
The doctors are considering the possibility that the fungal infection may be 
something that was carried on the apples, as the grower in question continued 
with his normal apple harvesting, packing, sorting of rotten apples etc. 
despite his condition.
I would appreciate that if any one out there on the list could shed any light 
on this, or would have any suggestions, or might have heard of something like 
this before, to let me know as soon as possible.
Or perhaps, if you know someone off-list, who might know, and would not mind to 
ask them the question, that would also be much appreciated.
The condition of this person is perilous, and without an answer, the prognosis 
is not good. So any help at all would be better than nothing.
Best wishes,
Con Traas
The Apple Farm
Ireland
++353-52-41459