Re: Free Re-fills

[michael gilson de lemos]

In what sense can a church that doles unlimited free soup to the poor be
giving free-refills? Is that a pre-emptive strike?

Best Regards,
MG
(have said that
> there are no free drink re-fills in Europe , but is
> this also true of fast food?  Maybe the test case is the same franchise on
> different continents.
>
>
>
>

Re: Free Re-fills

[Brian Moore]

True, but the way I have heard that story "spun" in the past is that it is
done as a labor saving technique.   In the face of threats of increases in
the minimum wage in the US, these sorts of businesses (which see minimum
wage labor as a relatively high percentage of total costs) would have an
incentive to make such a preemptive strike.  My question is that (I think)
these sorts of labor market restrictions are more prevalent in Europe, but
have companies reacted similarly?  I think previous posts have said that
there are no free drink re-fills in Europe , but is
this also true of fast food?  Maybe the test case is the same franchise on
different continents.



-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Sunday, July 09, 2000 12:02 PM
Subject: Re: Free Re-fills


>In a message dated 7/9/00 10:38:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
><< McDonalds and Burger King don't offer free
> refills on anything.
>  >>
>
>Not so---most fast-food places of this type now have self-serve soft
drinks,
>and while they don't explicitly say you are permitted to drink as much as
you
>want, they don't try to restrict you either.
>
>Brian Doherty
>

Re: Free Re-fills

[Pat McCann]

I have noticed the entire Cape Cod region of MA
also seems to shun the free refill pricing
method, at least they did when I was there a few
years ago. Is it possible their consumers have
similar elasticity levels to those in Europe,
 especially given their high tourist composition?
This policy seems to range from the Ruby Tuesday
/ Denny's mid range level restaurant to the more
pricey and distinguished one of a kind store.

Pat McCann
GMU Undergrad 


On Sat, 8 Jul 2000, Bryan Caplan wrote:

> Related question: Why no free re-fills in Europe?
> -- 
>   Prof. Bryan Caplan   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan
> 
>   "Is there anything more distinctly understood by all men, than
>what it is to see, to hear, to remember, to judge?  Yet it is
>the most difficult thing in the world to define these 
>operations according to the rules of logical definition.  But
>it is not more difficult than it is useless.  Sometimes
>philosophers attempt to define them; but, if we examine their
>definitions, we shall find that they amount to no more than
>giving one synonymous word for another, and commonly a worse
>for a better."
>   --Thomas Reid, *Essays on the Active Powers of Man*
> 

Re: Free Re-fills

[Seiji Steimetz]

I don't think there's any price discrimination going on here, especially 
considering the difficulties in distinguishing between thirsty and 
not-so-thirsty consumers.  Instead, I think pricing refills at (practically 
zero) marginal cost is simply another form of price competition among similar 
restaurants.  The Super-Bird at Denny's is pretty close to the Club at 
Lyon's.  The Quarter-Pounder and the Whopper are almost perfect 
substitutes.  If the (economic) profits in food items have been competed 
away, then there is an incentive for restaurants to lower soda prices to 
marginal cost, noting that the marginal cost of the first drink is not 
zero.  Note also that juices are usually excluded from "bottomless" drink 
offers.
 
Restaurants that can distinguish themselves through non-price competition, 
i.e., with food quality have no such incentive.  This might explain why 
fancy restaurants seldom give free refills.  Granted, these places often 
give free-refills on coffee.  However, coffee becomes a bad if it's not 
consumed shortly after production.
 
Seiji___Seiji 
Steimetz   
Office:  Social Science Tower 305University of California, 
Irvine Email:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
Department of 
Economics  
Web:    http://zotnet.net/~steimetz 
3151 Social Science Plaza    
Office:  (949) 824-1372Irvine, CA 92697-5100
 
"Every time a calf is born, the per capita GDP of a nation 
rises. Every time a human baby is born, the per capita GDP 
falls."  -- Julian 
Simon___

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  fabio guillermo rojas 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Sent: Saturday, July 08, 2000 3:53 
  PM
  Subject: Free Re-fills
  Is there any logic to whether restaraunts offer free 
  refills for sodadrinks?I've observed one street alone among  
  three restaraunts servingsimilar clientele all three main forms of refill 
  policy: free,discounted and full price.Any 
  insights?-fabio

Re: Free Re-fills

[BMDoherty]

In a message dated 7/9/00 10:38:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< McDonalds and Burger King don't offer free
 refills on anything.
  >>

Not so---most fast-food places of this type now have self-serve soft drinks, 
and while they don't explicitly say you are permitted to drink as much as you 
want, they don't try to restrict you either.

Brian Doherty

Re: Free Re-fills

[Alex Tabarrok]

Rather than an elasticity explanation I would suggest a two part
tarriff.  The initial charge grabs the consumer surplus, MC is close to
zero for soft drinks (mostly water) so p=MC is optimal.  Fabio's real
question, however, is why do some restaurants choose one policy and
others another.  This is hard to say.  Two part tarrifs work well when
customer demands are similar.  Thus, restaurants which serve a
specialized clientiele, serve only one type of meal etc. should offer
free refills.  Can this help to explain a related puzzle?  Although we
often think of free refills at all you can eat or family type
restaurants, just about every *fine* dining establishment I know offers
free refills on coffee, while McDonalds and Burger King don't offer free
refills on anything.


Alex

Re: Free Re-fills

[Bernard Girard]

We have in Europe things that look like free-re-fills. In some French
restaurants (but it's probably true in other european countries) you
have "buffets" : you choose what you eat on a table and you eat as much
as you wish. It's a good deal for the restaurant owner : more food eaten
(but not much more) and less work in the kitchen and in the diner room :
to choose the food you have to walk to the buffet and do the job of the
waiter.

Bryan Caplan a *crit :

> Related question: Why no free re-fills in Europe?
> --
>   Prof. Bryan Caplan   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan
>
>   "Is there anything more distinctly understood by all men, than
>what it is to see, to hear, to remember, to judge?  Yet it is
>the most difficult thing in the world to define these
>operations according to the rules of logical definition.  But
>it is not more difficult than it is useless.  Sometimes
>philosophers attempt to define them; but, if we examine their
>definitions, we shall find that they amount to no more than
>giving one synonymous word for another, and commonly a worse
>for a better."
>   --Thomas Reid, *Essays on the Active Powers of Man*

Re: Free Re-fills

[Pierre Lemieux]

At 21:16 00-07-08, you wrote:
Related question: Why no free re-fills in
Europe?
-- 
It depends what you re-fill. If you have dinner in a Paris "Bistrot
roman" (a chain of upper middle class fast food) and you take the
smoked salmon, they will re-fill you as much as you want. Same with their
chocolate pudding. If my previous hypethesis is true, this would mean
that there is, in Paris, a large clientèle with an elastic demand for
smoked salmon, and a small clientèle with a low, non-elastic demand. You
want to price discriminate against the former, but not chase away the
latter.

Interestingly, the Bistrot romain serves very thin slices of smoked
salmon, which they re-fill at will. There is no point to give customers
more than they would be willing to pay for.



PIERRE LEMIEUX 
Visiting Professor , Université du Québec à Hull
Research Fellow, Independent Institute

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Backup: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
Montréal address: 
C.P. 725, Tour de la Bourse, Montréal, Canada  H4Z 1J9 
Fax: 1(819)585-4423 
PGP Key 0xBDFFCD16
Fingerprint: CF3E 4A3F 57AB 8AB2 88FB  A1D8 C83D 2E15 BDFF 
CD16

**
"L'homme vivant sous la servitude des lois prend 
sans s'en douter une âme d'esclave." 
The man who lives under the servitude of laws takes, 
without suspecting it, the soul of a slave. 
(Georges Ripert, Le Déclin du Droit, Paris, Librairie 
Générale de Droit et de Jurisprudence, 1949, p. 94) 

**

Re: Free Re-fills

[fabio guillermo rojas]

More observation: nice sit down places seem to be mostly full
price refills. Sizzler/Bonanza buffet places tend to give free
refills. -fabio

> Restaurants of what type and what were their corresponding policies?
> 
> Best Regards,
> MG
> > Is there any logic to whether restaraunts offer free refills for soda
> > drinks?
> > 
> > I've observed one street alone among  three restaraunts 
> 

Re: Free Re-fills

[Pierre Lemieux]

At 18:53 00-07-08, you wrote:

Is there any logic to whether restaraunts
offer free refills for soda
drinks?An hypothesis: Suppose there are two clienteles for
restaurant sodas: one with a high elasticity of demand and a higher
demand curve, and the other one with a low elasticity and a lower demand
curve. A restaurant owner (and his competitors) cannot price discriminate
-- if only because he is unable to differentiate the two types of clients
when they walk into the shop -- so the same price is charged to
everybody, but a rebate is given to the high-elasticity, high-demand
customers in the form of a refill. I assume here that price
discrimination would be feasible in this market even if there is no
monopoly because   it could be enforced at a low cost in any
restaurant.

Indeed, in non-American, non-soft-drink, cultures, refills seem to be
unknown for, presumably, the high-demand clientèle does not exist.

I've observed one street alone among 
three restaraunts serving
similar clientele all three main forms of refill policy: free,
discounted and full price.
If the above hypothesis is true, AND if indeed the non-free-refill
restaurants do cater to the same clienteles, they will not be able to
sustain this policy for very long.



PIERRE LEMIEUX 
Visiting Professor , Université du Québec à Hull
Research Fellow, Independent Institute

[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Backup: [EMAIL PROTECTED]) 
Montréal address: 
C.P. 725, Tour de la Bourse, Montréal, Canada  H4Z 1J9 
Fax: 1(819)585-4423 
PGP Key 0xBDFFCD16
Fingerprint: CF3E 4A3F 57AB 8AB2 88FB  A1D8 C83D 2E15 BDFF 
CD16

**
"L'homme vivant sous la servitude des lois prend 
sans s'en douter une âme d'esclave." 
The man who lives under the servitude of laws takes, 
without suspecting it, the soul of a slave. 
(Georges Ripert, Le Déclin du Droit, Paris, Librairie 
Générale de Droit et de Jurisprudence, 1949, p. 94) 

**

Re: Free Re-fills

[Bryan Caplan]

Related question: Why no free re-fills in Europe?
-- 
  Prof. Bryan Caplan   [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
   http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/bcaplan

  "Is there anything more distinctly understood by all men, than
   what it is to see, to hear, to remember, to judge?  Yet it is
   the most difficult thing in the world to define these 
   operations according to the rules of logical definition.  But
   it is not more difficult than it is useless.  Sometimes
   philosophers attempt to define them; but, if we examine their
   definitions, we shall find that they amount to no more than
   giving one synonymous word for another, and commonly a worse
   for a better."
  --Thomas Reid, *Essays on the Active Powers of Man*

Re: Free Re-fills

[michael gilson de lemos]

Restaurants of what type and what were their corresponding policies?

Best Regards,
MG
> Is there any logic to whether restaraunts offer free refills for soda
> drinks?
> 
> I've observed one street alone among  three restaraunts