Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Moderation!Due to haily_merry requesting the topic be closed, I am going to do this. I also think the discussion has gone as far as it can go for now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504147/#p504147 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I honestly think closing the thread might be a good idea at this point. I'm not going to delete it because I'm hoping some of it could help someone in my position, but at this point I'm not sure if anything good can come of it being open. There's just not enough of us on here for us to really have a good discussion beyond what we've already seen here.Something I'd like to say though. I do know someone who was born male, but didn't produce testosterone naturally so had to have it on medication. This person would later come out as MTF. Just something to think about. Sex and gender aren't as black and white as you might think. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504065/#p504065 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? See, I was willing to just let this topic die, but then Joshknnd1982 had to resurrect it. And in the manner he did. Now I trust that people see a little better why I gave a warning for this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504050/#p504050 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I don't get the it is wrong to transition people. I literally can't see any good reasons why you would think that. Nope. Let people liv there lifes however they choose. Quit jutching people by there seksuality, collor and so on. Jutch people by there personality and the world would be a far better place. That is what I believe in anyway. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504047/#p504047 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I completely agree. This conversation isn't going anywhere; what with part of the users saying it's wrong to transition while the other part is trying to defend transitioning. Neither side is getting each other to budge, and anything more that could be said has been said already. What's the point in beating a dead horse? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504042/#p504042 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @214I have never seen someone change their mind on these issues because someone argued it with them. The information is out there for anyone who wants to look for it,and even the most cursory searches will turn it up, but that means that the other party has to be approaching it from a point of learning and not a point of defending their position, at which point saying something isn't necessary.The flip side is that having the argument means that anyone else watching this who isn't secure in themselves and is still coming to terms with the fact that half the world hates them now also has yet another place to see the hatred in one place. This is also primarily a site of minors and people in more vulnerable positions, which means that the science/religion ping pong that doesn't ever change minds has a lot of ways to cause damage. Damage which we will probably never find out about, since it's the sort of damage that'll just cause people to stay quiet for fear of starting another thread like this one. It takes a while to develop the skin necessary to let things roll off.So: to you, and to everyone else who might be tempted to play defense by directly addressing people with anti-LGBT viewpoints, please consider whether that's really helping. Words of encouragement or a "I'm gay/trans/etc too" or what have you likely go a lot further than science/religion ping-pong.I don't think I've ever found myself wanting to see a thread get closed before, but I think there might be an argument to be made for closing this one. I don't see how it can go anywhere good. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504016/#p504016 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
2020-02-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Here-Be-Saoirse via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Dear Danú on a stick, are we all gonna put down our toys, stop spitting on others while pulling on each others hair? Some of you are acting like 2-year-olds told that a neighbour has the same toy as them. N! BUT I DON'T WANNA SHAAARE! is ábhar díomá é seo... right. so. yes. gender binaries are a lie; there are 0 genders because to number them is to restrict them. everone's gender identity is different, it's just that people have confused a bunch of people having one specific set of configurtions and another set of people having another for actual, set-in-stone traits and identities. Noot so much. right, end of this topic, I hope. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504011/#p504011 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Just to add onto 209, there is a condition known as androgen insensitivity syndrome. People with this condition are genetically male, but fail to respond to male hormones to varying degrees. This results in a spectrum from mostly male with slight female characteristics, to completely female in the case of complete insensitivity, with people in the middle being considered intersex because they can't really be classified as male and female due to a combination of traits. There are other examples as well, but the point is even just biological sex isn't always as straight forward as some people make it out to be, no matter how badly some people want it to be purely binary. It's kind of like the religious people who say homosexuality isn't natural and then just ignore all the cases of it occurring in various animal species. So what really defines being male or female? Sure your underlying genome won't change, but can a 46XY person who is phenotypically entirely female really be considered male? If you really go into it, the outward things that people usually use to classify people can be changed, so for all practical purposes males can become females and females can become males. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504009/#p504009 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? If post 201 had been the first bit of dissention against trans folk that I'd seen in this thread, then maybe it gets a caution. It's still transphobic, but a personal attack might be a stretch. I agree.But look how long this topic got. Look at how many people already went up this road, some better, some worse. There is really nothing new in post 201 that's worth arguing with. There's no hard facts. No research. No science, even though science is invoked. And on top of it all is a pseudo-religious argument. That simply can't be argued with in this context. Post 201 was made despite all of this. It was made after the topic had already grown to 200 posts, much of that people already showing transphobic views to one degree or another. If this was true ignorance, again, I'd have been willing to just caution, a sort of "hey, don't reignite the blaze" post. But it wasn't. Jimmy69 was specifically cited, suggesting that Joshknnd1982 has been reading this thread. I ask you, then: why the need to revive it? Why the need to reignite this, with all the history?There are some people who may legitimately be able to hold a discussion, and can state things politely, gently or in some other way as to make folks know that while they may not agree with a thing, they are willing to respect it. I saw very little of that in post 201. It was just agreeing with Jimmy69, who's already faced a lot of blowback for doubling down and pressing a point that does not need to be pressed any further than it already has.So if you take each part on its own, I'd agree that a warning is pretty harsh. If you look at the big picture, however, I think this was easily earned.I'm asking Josh not to come back in here and defend himself because it cannot and will not go well. This is not something most people are willing to debate, especially as this post appears to have been made in bad faith anyway. This isn't just ignorance, remember. It's assumption, religious argument and close-mindedness all wrapped up in one. A good conversational gambit this is absolutely not. So I'm basically saying "cut your losses, bro. You've done enough here". URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504008/#p504008 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Conversion therapy was also shown slightly in Riverdale. It's something that I don't really want to get into fully, but lets just say for those who still aren't convinced, there's a reason, other than politics, that its banned in a bunch of states. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504007/#p504007 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @210, I'm not sure this debate isn't worth it. I feel like not responding like 209 did might give the impression to some that posts like 201 have the intellectual high ground, which they don't. I know people who have their positions for emotional (religious, cultural etc) reasons are not likely to be convinced, but there must be a few people who would be convinced by a rational argument, or maybe I'm just overly optimistic.Also @213 I'm not sure that warning is warranted. It's a bit of a stretch to say it's a personal attack. It's just an opinion, and as wrong as it is it still isn't attacking anyone personally. It probably seems like a hopeless endeavor with the number of people on this topic with similar views, many of whom were actually guilty of personal attacks. But the post makes certain claims that can be addressed. You are usually better than this at doing exactly that. And I get that you must be frustrated at this point, but telling someone to not respond again and not to defend their view seems hostile and plays into the impression of some people that your personal views interfere with your moderation and that you're just censoring certain views. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/504006/#p504006 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Moderation:Joshknnd1982, go ahead and consider this a warning.Look. We've made it clear over and over and over again that some "opinions" are essentially personal attacks. I'd say post 201 definitely qualifies.You took pains to explain how science only recognizes two genders, ignoring the fact that sex and gender are not the same thing. You hand-waved the fact that some animals change sex because they're not human, and...well, I guess humans aren't animals, or something? Then you tried the "just be who you are, because so-and-so programmed you this way" defense. That doesn't work either. Clearly, you are not transgender and don't seem to suffer from any form of dysphoria, so you don't get what it's like. Be happy that you're well off in this regard, but do not shove your viewpoint down someone else's throat when this person has clearly gotten a lot of needless flak already. Oh, right, and don't equate transitioning to conversion therapy. The two are not at all alike.Top it all off, but you had to revive an old and virtually dead topic to say all of this? I'm not sure what you were hoping to achieve, and I'm not going to argue with you further.Save yourself further shame, as you've already seemingly torched people's opinion of you. Just don't respond in here again. Don't try and defend yourself on this point. Go do something else, and maybe keep your transphobia away from the forum. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503998/#p503998 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
2020-02-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? There was a lifetime movie about it as well. They made the girl stand in a corner with a backbag of rocks. and big ones at that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503984/#p503984 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Conversion therapy is one of those things that will bring out a torrent of rage in me, so I'll try to keep this brief. You know what those so-called practices all have in common? They don't convert a person so much as they strip away their humanity, and quite literally beat the person into submission. I can't for the life of me recall the name of the book I read a few years back which dealt with this. Fictional though it was, it was a really shocking story about teens who were sent to one of those pray the gay away camps, which do, in fact, exist. After a lot of pseudo psychology, manipulation, physical and even sexual abuse by the staff, one kid has enough and kills the director. There's a whole love story where two girls fall for each other even within the confines of that place, too, but I just can't remember what it was called. I probably blocked it out, but it was seriously fucked up. It's not much different than those so-called boot camps which were popular in the 90's where parents sent their troubled teens to "straighten them out." Little wonder that many "survivors" of such places never lived to see much beyond an even more tormented existence, seeing as how the suicide rate was so high. I fell down a rabbit hole in the mid-2000's when I was first discovering the internet when I read a lot of those kinds of stories. I hated every second of it, but I couldn't stop once I'd started. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503978/#p503978 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @209From personal experience and as someone who normally participates in debates, the debate isn't worth it. I'd ignore this thread beyond positive wishes or shared experience, it's already too much out of control. if I'd noticed the dates I'd probably have just sent a private message but I thought it was still ongoing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503972/#p503972 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? 201: Kleinfelter's? Not sure how you spell it.More accurately, the decoupling of gender and sex has made it hard to science gender at all. In terms of biological sex, science says there are two by default, but exceptions happen (not just birth abnormalities, but chromasomally as well). Then you have the many, many situations historically in which males were castrated, to the point that there are rather old terms like Eunuch and Castrato to refer to these. (there are rather old terms for transgender people, for that matter, old enough to have built up connotations that pushed them off the euphamism treadmill.)And that doesn't even get into the endocrine shenanigans that can happen long after birth, or the neurological stuff before and after, and we still haven't gotten to the individual and their personal experience.TLDR: the "i" in "lgbtqia++" stands for a scientific term. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503970/#p503970 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? sadly, 201 doesn't surprise me at all, accept for the fact that that didn't happen sooner. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503956/#p503956 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? 201: nope.From what I've seen, modern science now recognizes more than two genders. There have been studies, can't remember where as at the time, I didn't pay too much attention, but there have, indeed, been studies. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503947/#p503947 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
2020-02-24
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? 201, great job. You just brought back one of the most shittiest shit storms in modern forum history. Gracias, tu Burro. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503940/#p503940 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @haily_merryDidn't read the whole thread because I find it quite disappointing that people here are being as judgemental and misinformed as they are. I'm gay, and through that I've known a few trans people and have a few trans friends, some of whom work at Microsoft, and I just thought it might be worth trying to counteract some of this negativity.Being gay isn't the same, but it got better for me once I was out, and for my trans friends it got better for them once they transitioned, so hang in there and ignore the "there are only two science-recognized genders" and the "but conversion therapy can help" and do it. I won't lie, there's going to be people you won't talk to anymore, and there might be friends you'll lose and maybe even family members who won't want to talk to you, but there is a far side to being LGBT for most of us where being out of the closet and just doing it works out, and it doesn't mean being miserable forever. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503939/#p503939 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Yeah. I'm just shaking my head at 201 right now. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503938/#p503938 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? You know, I have no qualms about this topic coming back, but did it have to happen like that? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503936/#p503936 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Or you could just. You know. Be who you want to be and be happy with that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503927/#p503927 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @Jimmy69, I agree with you. But you have and I just skimmed selected messages of this large topic, but you have not brought science into the discussion. Science recognises only 2 genders. So if you are a male and feel like female or the other way around it has to be some kind of mental or psychological disorder that needs treatment. Unfortunately most doctors and psychologists don't have the skills to propperly treat gender disphoria and other mental disorders including the entire lgbtq collection. There is also an agenda trying to push their lifestyle onto everybody including children through books, the public schools, and movies and radio. Now regarding conversion therapy... Or what some in the lgbtq community label as conversion therapy. If science proves through my DNA that I am male, but I feel like a female, then you cannot convert anything, nor is there a need for some sort of conversion. Science says there are only two biological genders, male and female. A male cannot ever ever ever become a female, nor can a female become a male. It is biologically impossible and will always be biologically impossible. There is good, sound, treatment for such disorders but you have to look hard to find it. And getting such treatment may also be difficult or impossible due to financial situations of various people and where they live. Regarding yet another post. Some animals can change their sex but trying to compare those to humans is again like comparing apples to oranges. Can't be done. Scientifically and biologically they are not even close to human biology. In other words, you are male and feel like female? Ok that's just a feeling, an opinion. Will you feel the same way in 50 or 60 some years? Probably not. So just wait, get treatment if it is possible for you, feelings pass and opinions change from day to day. Stick to the scientific biological facts of who you are as a human. Stick with the gender you were programmed or designed with because the master creator of all reality, time, and existance who has been creating humans for thousands maybe millions of years knows how to make humans, knows how to make them perfectly, every time... all the time... to go against your core humanity is to go against reality, nature, human nature, scientific biology, and the creator of all space-time, the universe, the multiverse if its discovered by scientists in the future, you will experience some kind of consequences at some point down the road of your life. Stick to your scientifically biologically proven sexual identity programmed into you from the time you were just one human cell still in development... and try if possible to get a kind of psychological treatment that will help you accept your biological and scientifically-proven identity already programmed into your biological DNA by the being existing outside of space-time who is smarter than all humans of all times, and who is the expert at making new humans and correcting current human problems. Lastly, scientific discovery should affirm or agree with the existance of a being or the master being of all existance based on the observable universe and how ordered it is which then filters down to humanity and human's ability to use reason and intelligence so far as far as scientists know humans are the only creatures that can reason and think rationally about abstract and non-abstract ideas. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/503924/#p503924 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I'm going to correct myself on my last post. I just did some research, and while for the majority of countries, there are two recognized genders, male and female, some do have a third option, other than nonbinary, or sometimes including nonbinary. this is out of date, but just some simple research for those who are interested.https://www.seeker.com/which-countries- … 25521.html URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497848/#p497848 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Okay, going to probably get controversial but, by definition, yes, there are technically two genders. But there are many other gender identities. By the simple fact that the term is nonbinary tells me that you are not of one of the two genders. Agender is a lack of gender, meaning, no gender. Bigender is two genders. Genderfluid is moving between two genders. I could be interpreting things wrong, but even as someone who doesn't identify as cis, I see two genders, with different identities off that. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497672/#p497672 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I uh, actually didn't really get too invested in gender politics compared to the myriad other debates out there. But I always thought genders were just social constructs somewhat shakily agreed on by everyone? What some people picture as gender is actually more related to sex, i.e: having a penis or vagina. Gender is more the perception we have a person. Men are emotionless dreadnaughts that need to be into woodworking, sports and the conquering of other neighbor's wives (exaggerations away!). Women as the motherly type that stay at home, and maintain the living space, cleaning, cooking, and setting up the outter defenses to withstand the next Xenomorph invasion. Now, if you try to limit everyone into two gender roles, you're uh, you're going to have an issue. As can be obvious just by traveling down the magical highway of the internet, everyone is entirely different. It is impossible to just keep everyone categorized like that without resorting to sex, and that's it's own separate category. Now I have no idea about the debate on someone deciding to change their sex to match their perceived gender. I'm curious if there would be any arguments if we advanced medicine and science to fully transition a person into a fully functioning female or male. Bits and parts working properly and what not, impossible to tell the bikini model used to be a man only 5 years earlier. Things are progressing slowly to pull off such a thing. both from regular reconstruction fields, and our experiments with genetics. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497642/#p497642 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Jimmy69, I imagine you're probably feeling a little bit shut out right now. I don't blame you if you do feel that way. My suggestion, though, is to learn to live with it.As a fellow straight white male, myself, I am cognizant of the hell we've put pretty much everyone else through as a group (as individuals, most of us are fairly harmless). This also means I've become aware that sometimes, our opinions are not only unwanted, but harmful. Again, no one's saying you can't believe what you wish, but in this specific arena, you have to come to grips with the fact that no, your opinion is not equal here, and as such, you don't have the right to just smear it everywhere. If you do it, you risk harm. You argue that by Haily and others being free to say what they're saying, that upsets you, and you further suggest that you being upset is equal to them being upset. In an everyday scuffle that's not related to privilege and oppression, I'd agree with you. In this instance, no, I don't. If you are that upset, no one is forcing you to read this thread. Walk away. Go do something that makes you happy. You are not going to change anyone's mind by posting that Haily and Daigonite are writing "patently wrong things". You are not going to affect any positive change, and so I must conclude that you're doing so either 1. in order to put those people down or 2. to make yourself feel better. If it's the latter, you're doing so at the expense of other people, and that's just not cool.So, a quick little anecdote for you. When I was seventeen, I was definitely a bit more of a jerk than I am now. I hate to admit it, but it's true. I had a girlfriend. Looking back, I don't know if it was ever gonna work long-term, but she was very sweet and quite supportive, and we got along well. Thing is, she liked chick flicks and pop music (she's since largely outgrown both, we're still in touch). Anyway, I would often deride the things she liked, not because I was trying to be an ass but just because I didn't like them. She'd talk about some new song she heard, and I'd say something like, "Good lord, it's full of autotuned" or "ah, another money-making scheme". And eventually she got sick of it and blew up in my face. You know what? I spent five minutes being outraged that she got upset by me expressing my opinion, and then I nearly fell apart when I realized the effect I was having on her. She was taking my criticism of the music as indirect criticism of her preferences and even her lifestyle. She was sixteen at the time. It was horribly demeaning and undercut her self-confidence in a way that I'd never have done if I'd really sat down and thought about it.So why do I tell this story? Because right now, you're the person who walks into a place and just decides to have his say for its own sake. Right now, you're acting the way I did twenty years ago, more or less. Trust me, bro, it doesn't work. It just upsets people, makes them feel like you're picking on them. Because even if you really hate that song, or really find it bothersome that people insist on two genders, no one is making you partake of the music or the discussion or whatever else. Bow out. You aren't gonna change minds this way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497629/#p497629 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @jimmy, no one here is trying to force our views on to you, we're simply asking you have a little respect for people like me, daigonite, crescent, etc who disagree with you and do things you would consider to be un proper or indecent. In case you didn't notice, we were all just having a discussion over here before you started butting in with your both ignorant and down right hateful comments about the LGBTQ+ community. So first you claim I'll never be female because my biological makeup says so, then you try to suggest that being gender fluid / bigender is patently wrong? Na dude, GTFO. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497614/#p497614 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Okay. I am going to post this, and if I get a warning, well that is fine.I believe there are two genders. Notice, I wrote "I believe." I didn't say that you should believe there are two genders. If someone is offended by that, then that is their problem. I don't have to agree with someone's gender choices to respect them. Honestly, I hope Haily gets whatever she needs to make her happy. I might not agree with it, but as long as her choices don't endanger anyone or cause harm to others, I do not care what gender she becomes. It is her life; she can live it however she wants to. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497610/#p497610 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @193 To be absolutely honest, no, your opinion doesn't matter. And neither does mine. Truth is, the opinions of straight white men have shaped history. And they've used those opinions to do some pretty awful things. Now, I'm not saying that the opinion of a straight white man doesn't matter at all. But if that opinion tends in the direction of "Wh, I'm going to tell this person how to live their life!" Or "Wah, someone disagrees with me on the internet and I need to set them straight!" or "Wh, I'm finally getting a sense for how these other groups must have felt throughout history, but I'll just keep doing the same old thing and try to play the victim!" Well, maybe you could check those opinions, and maybe just keep some of them to yourself. Because, at the end of the day, Haily just wants to live her life. If you can't agree with her choices, and they're not legitimately harming anyone, the least you can do is get out of her way and let her live it. I mean, that is literally the least, as a decent human being, you can do.And before you come back saying "Waaah, trans people make me uncomfortable because I don't know how to pronounce LBGTQIA without breaking my tongue!" I *did* write "legitimately harming..." So no more of these silly leaps of logic that make you such a victim, because I ain't buying it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497607/#p497607 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Yeah but when I see people saying patently wrong things, like there’s more than two genders, that upsets me. Now I know you’re probably just going to say that it doesn’t matter if I get upset, but we have to preserve the feelings of all the little boys and girls. People are so fucking sensitive I hate it You Say that it upsets Haley, well the shit they’re saying upsets me. Obviously, because I’m a straight white male my feelings don’t mean shit. Or at least that’s what it seems like from some of your guises posTs, But I think if Haley is allowed to express her views I should be allowed to express mine URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497601/#p497601 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Jayde, if you're ever in Austin, I owe you a beer or a reasonably-acquirable substance of choice. I don't know how you wade back into this stuff again and again while retaining a grip on your sanity. Or maybe you haven't and hide it well? Either way, thanks for having the patience of ... something with a lot of patience. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497592/#p497592 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Jimmy69, please stop insisting that there are only two genders. Your desire to force this point has made me pretty sure of your intentions. Nolan got here and nailed it before I could, so thank you, Nolan, for hitting the nail straight on. You're entitled to believe what you want, we can't stop you doing that, but coming in here to debate that is doing no good and may in fact be doing harm. Haily becoming upset with you constitutes as harm. If you persist in this, I'll have to put my staff hat on, and I don't want to do that if I don't have to.DyingMoose93, your bias is showing, too, I'm afraid. Not to mention ignorance.For one thing, sexual preference and gender identity are two very different things. I can be heterosexual and bigender, or I can be bisexual and cisgender. One refers to the people we're attracted to; the other refers to the gender with which we identify.Next, your comments on women definitely betray a pretty strong anti-feminist bias. Again, you're free to hold such a repulsive stance if you want, but it would be nice if you held beliefs based on demonstrable facts. I will agree with you that throwing things at a demonstration is absolutely -not the way to go. However, your desire to judge most or all women based on this act is just self-serving. Are there women out there that are horrible people? Abso-freaking-lutely yes. Men too. And bigender, and agender, and all the rest. They're out there. But as for why they were marching in the first place, I ask you this. If women have just as much rights as men, why is sexual assault so common? Why does the wage gap still exist, even if it's definitely been shrinking? Why is the first question when a woman is raped often something along the lines of "what were you wearing"? Why is it that in many (although by no means all) circumstances, women are questioned by police more rigorously than men before they are believed? Why are women still fighting for and afraid of their reproductive rights? Why do women in some parts of the world lack the ability to make decisions on their own? Why in some places can men initiate a divorce while women cannot? And, the cherry on top: can you give examples for all of the above where men actually get the short end of the stick? If you can, have on, but if you can't, I urge you to do a little bit more research and self-reflection. Because here's the thing. It's easy to think women have it great when you hear about someone winning a sexual harassment suit, or aborting a fetus, or getting custody in a legal battle where perhaps they shouldn't have (yes, that is still a problem, albeit a shrinking one). It's easy to think "well, they're fine", or, as you appear to have done, to go an extra step and say "Wow, look at that. They've got more than we do!". It's not accurate, however.Last, I want to hit on the fines thing. You're taking this way, way out of context. If you misgender someone by mistake, no one is going to fine you or harass you. Sometimes it's really difficult to know (trust me, I've misgendered someone straight up before). Instead, that quote is misconstrued by fans of Jordan Peterson and his ilk because they're trying to make it into a free-speech thing when it isn't. As far as I'm aware, that quote and that reference refer to people in paid positions who willingly misgender someone. If you are, say, a professor and you have a student who identifies as female but her name on her birth certificate is Peter and she looks stereotypically male, you'd be potentially in trouble if you continuously referred to her as "Peter" and "he" and "him" even after being asked not to do so. And as far as I'm concerned, if you get fined for that or even reprimanded more seriously, you've got it coming. How hard is it to just call people what they wish, and to refer to them by the appropriate gender? Nah, your average citizen has nothing to fear, and in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred, a transgender/non-CIS person who is unintentionally misgendered will set you straight or say nothing at all rather than raise hell. If they do raise hell and you had no way of knowing that what you were doing was wrong beforehand, then there's not much that can be done. I urge you not to judge the many by the few, in this or anywhere else. The man I misgendered as female (due to his size and his voice, he was helping to guide me at the time) just set me straight. I apologized, and his exact words were, "nothing to apologize for. There was no way you could know. I get it a lot and I don't mind it as long as people are doing it by accident." Just think about that.Generally, I'm going to support Nolan's point here.If you are genuinely here to learn, and you happen to ask a question in a way that ruffles a feather or two but you don't mean harm, it should be pretty easy to tell that, and I wager that most people he
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Jimmy69, please stop insisting that there are only two genders. Your desire to force this point has made me pretty sure of your intentions. Nolan got here and nailed it before I could, so thank you, Nolan, for hitting the nail straight on. You're entitled to believe what you want, we can't stop you doing that, but coming in here to debate that is doing no good and may in fact be doing harm. Haily becoming upset with you constitutes as harm. If you persist in this, I'll have to put my staff hat on, and I don't want to do that if I don't have to.DyingMoose92, your bias is showing, too, I'm afraid. Not to mention ignorance.For one thing, sexual preference and gender identity are two very different things. I can be heterosexual and bigender, or I can be bisexual and cisgender. One refers to the people we're attracted to; the other refers to the gender with which we identify.Next, your comments on women definitely betray a pretty strong anti-feminist bias. Again, you're free to hold such a repulsive stance if you want, but it would be nice if you held beliefs based on demonstrable facts. I will agree with you that throwing things at a demonstration is absolutely -not the way to go. However, your desire to judge most or all women based on this act is just self-serving. Are there women out there that are horrible people? Abso-freaking-lutely yes. Men too. And bigender, and agender, and all the rest. They're out there. But as for why they were marching in the first place, I ask you this. If women have just as much rights as men, why is sexual assault so common? Why does the wage gap still exist, even if it's definitely been shrinking? Why is the first question when a woman is raped often something along the lines of "what were you wearing"? Why is it that in many (although by no means all) circumstances, women are questioned by police more rigorously than men before they are believed? Why are women still fighting for and afraid of their reproductive rights? Why do women in some parts of the world lack the ability to make decisions on their own? Why in some places can men initiate a divorce while women cannot? And, the cherry on top: can you give examples for all of the above where men actually get the short end of the stick? If you can, have on, but if you can't, I urge you to do a little bit more research and self-reflection. Because here's the thing. It's easy to think women have it great when you hear about someone winning a sexual harassment suit, or aborting a fetus, or getting custody in a legal battle where perhaps they shouldn't have (yes, that is still a problem, albeit a shrinking one). It's easy to think "well, they're fine", or, as you appear to have done, to go an extra step and say "Wow, look at that. They've got more than we do!". It's not accurate, however.Last, I want to hit on the fines thing. You're taking this way, way out of context. If you misgender someone by mistake, no one is going to fine you or harass you. Sometimes it's really difficult to know (trust me, I've misgendered someone straight up before). Instead, that quote is misconstrued by fans of Jordan Peterson and his ilk because they're trying to make it into a free-speech thing when it isn't. As far as I'm aware, that quote and that reference refer to people in paid positions who willingly misgender someone. If you are, say, a professor and you have a student who identifies as female but her name on her birth certificate is Peter and she looks stereotypically male, you'd be potentially in trouble if you continuously referred to her as "Peter" and "he" and "him" even after being asked not to do so. And as far as I'm concerned, if you get fined for that or even reprimanded more seriously, you've got it coming. How hard is it to just call people what they wish, and to refer to them by the appropriate gender? Nah, your average citizen has nothing to fear, and in ninety-nine cases out of a hundred, a transgender/non-CIS person who is unintentionally misgendered will set you straight or say nothing at all rather than raise hell. If they do raise hell and you had no way of knowing that what you were doing was wrong beforehand, then there's not much that can be done. I urge you not to judge the many by the few, in this or anywhere else. The man I misgendered as female (due to his size and his voice, he was helping to guide me at the time) just set me straight. I apologized, and his exact words were, "nothing to apologize for. There was no way you could know. I get it a lot and I don't mind it as long as people are doing it by accident." Just think about that.Generally, I'm going to support Nolan's point here.If you are genuinely here to learn, and you happen to ask a question in a way that ruffles a feather or two but you don't mean harm, it should be pretty easy to tell that, and I wager that most people he
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Watched this talk a few weeks ago. Might help some people here.LGBTQ+ and Polyamory in Animals: Yes, It's Natural | Antonia Forster | TEDxBristol:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK6EwIoQl34 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497561/#p497561 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? So, I can only speak for myself on being bigender. Everyone's experience is different. For me, I feel like I am both male and female, usually at the same time. I have really bad body dysphoria, but that I will not be discussing in public because it relates to my body and well, that's not something I want in a public forum. Its basically that I feel like my brain is almost devided, not just right and left, but between the way a male brain is, and the way a female brain is. Whether it actually is or not, that's what it feels like. Inerestingly enough, when I take the SAGE test, I end up getting different results each time, not that that means anything, just something I find interesting. Being biggender doesn't usually mean though that you feel two genders at once. More commonly, its one, then another time another. @183 I hope its okay, the English word is polyamorous. As for gender being a social construct, I do agree that it is, and that it probably shouldn't be used, bbut I think that its something we use to feel like we fit in somewhere. For example, if you can't see you say that you are blind, and that puts you in a community of people like you. It's something that we use to maybe validate our experience, and find others like us. If you are female, then you have a community of other females like you. Same if you are male. I don't think its necessarily a bad thing that it is a social construct. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497559/#p497559 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? 179: I disagree about women being treated better than men in lots of cases. I can maybe understand where your opinion comes from, there have been cases of women denouncing stupers when they hadn't actually happened and, even if they where not true, those innocent men reputation where ruined. Or it can happen in divorces cases, when the husband has to pay a monthly fee to the ex wife to garantee her the same quality of life, and the woman is preferred for the growing of the kids. But, at list here in Italy, we have virtually the same rights, but we don't have them in practice. I'll list you just some examples:When we apply for a job, we are asked if we want to become mothers. If we say yes, is very less likely that you want obtain that job. Moreover, some employers ask you to sign a resigning letter in advance, so that, if you happen to change your mind, they can just compile it and they already have your signature. This is obviously illegal. But, with an unstable work market as we have, it's better to sign that letter than to remain without that job. Even more: you may be in a very nice situation, your employers has no problems with you having a baby. But, when you finally become a mother, you practically have to choose if you want to work or to babysit, because your workplace doesn't have a nursery and the public ones don't match your timetables or are too expensive etc etc. You can say, ok, take some months of and then come back to work. But, again, if you taketoo many months of, you want be updated on your job anymore, and it would be difficult to pass the new projects to someone who doesn't know nothing about them. And yes, we have I think 6 months of garanteed in total, and we can divide them to use them both before and after the birth of the baby, but the payment you receive decreases gradually during those months.Another example, even if this is more about how differently we are seen than a question of rights: its happening more and more often that, on public transport, boys touch women taking advantage of the mass of people around them. I'll explain: imagine a buss full of people and a man who, with the excuse of making more space for himself, starts touching your ass, your brests and more. Even more, imagine someone who masturbates on you covered from the eyes of people because of the cramped space. Now, you would think that, when a woman denounces it, people would react. Well, usually, and I was there to testify it in 2 cases, usually nobody says nothing and, if you look from help by the police, the answer is: "Oh, it must have beenso shameful for you to be treated like that." Literally, that's the only reaction.NowThird example: think about all the countries where women still are considered inferiors. They can't study, they can't decide anything. They clearly don't have yet the same rights as man. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497551/#p497551 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Jimmy, Thumbs up.Anyway, the joke about intent to kill was that, a joke, but I see how you could read it as not so with such a touchy topic. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497547/#p497547 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @184 Not disagreeing with you, but my understanding of freedom of speech is that it's primarily a government thing. Before freedom of speech, the king could imprison or execute you for saying his nose was too large. Granted, there could be consequences for that sort of thing as any Game of Thrones fan could certainly tell you, but a powerful authority figure could probably move fast enough that someone speaking out against him would be on the chopping block before those consequences caught up with him. But freedom of speech doesn't just mean you can say whatever you want and cry "freeze peach!" whenever someone calls you on it. And it *definitely* doesn't apply on private platforms, and maybe not even in non-government contexts, but I'm not a lawyer so...Anyhow, again, mostly in agreement. But it's weird to me when people cry about free speech on private platforms. It's also a bit of a tell that most of the folks I've seen do it do so as a dog whistle to try summoning folks who may disagree with whatever they're spouting but still favor the idea of not restricting speech. Hopefully we can dismantle that dog whistle right here. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497540/#p497540 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? OK, debated whether or not to say this, but I've about had it.To those of you who outright disagree with Haily and other LGBTQIA folks on this thread, and to those of you cloaking your disagreement under the vineer of wanting to learn and getting butthurt when you're called on it, why are you here? What's the endgame? Is your hope that Haily will up and say "Well golly-fuckedy-gee, someone on the internet doesn't agree with me. I guess I should put this whole transition thing on the back burner and choose to be heteronormative like all the straight white folks say I should."To be clear, there are people in this thread genuinely trying to learn. This isn't aimed at you. And if by some miracle you *are* genuinely trying to learn, insisting on things you know being facts really comes off as you pushing an agenda, and part of learning involves humility. But if Haily's presence and needs bothered me so much (neither does, BTW) I could ignore this thread completely and continue functioning perfectly well. I'd go to work, pay my rent, get groceries. THe world wouldn't end and life would continue as usual, Chinese death plague and maniacle orange man in the White House not withstanding. No one's going to fine you for misgendering someone, despite what some random internet conspiracist or FOx news pundet would have you believe.If you're here subtly or not-so-subtly pushing an agenda that your way is the right way, then a good long look at your life choices may be in order. If it makes you uncomfortable that people who aren't like you exist, well, the people who aren't like you have felt uncomfortable pretending they *are* like you for a long while now, so try and have a little empathy. If your goal is to feel comfortable at the expense of making others on the internet conform to your life choices, then you're a pretty selfish person, and I for one won't put any effort into either making you comfortable or engaging with bad-faith efforts to "learn."Haily, I hope you've found some good support apart from the haters. Sorry that people on the internet can't just read someone's personal perspectives with which they disagree and just keep their damned mouths shut. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497539/#p497539 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? For 179, Freedom of Speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences. I think as the old saying goes, (and not directed at anyone, just the quote): You have the freedom to believe what you want, but I also have the freedom to believe you are an idiot. That concept probably occurs with any backlash gotten from having an opposing opinion. At times the majority dictates what is considered acceptable. As a counterpoint, one would get backlash having opinions supporting these groups from the majority not that long ago. Things have just changed, and those who once had support with those views are now left with far fewer allies open in the public to make their side the accepted norm in society. Okay, the throwing objects at people thing during the march was far from the right thing to do. but I highly doubt they were going to try to kill the protesters. "Those people" kind of clues me in on your opinion of feminists, and that entire march was not composed of the more militant types. Just like claiming the entire Catholic Church isn't entirely overran by pedophiles, please don't generalize a group with the actions of a few. Due to my time with statistical research courses , generalizations like this make me foam madly from the mouth. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497538/#p497538 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Hi all! I've been following this topic since the beginning, but didn't write anything because... Well, because I don't know any trans and so I didn't have anything constructive to add to the discussion. However, I now have a question about gender. If, and I agree, if gender is a social construct, how useful is to identify ourselves as cisgender, transgender etc. I mean, how useful is to keep the word gender in this context, when the thing here I think should be getting rid of the concept of gender altogether in favor of being just yourself? And, for people who identify themselves as genderfluid or bigender: how can you identify in more than one gender, if gender is something that doesn't exist as a real thing but is just a construct?Thanks for whoever will answer me, I've always been very interested in sexuality and genders and whatever is usually thrown in the mix. I'm curious by nature, and I want to understand others so to understand also why other people don't understand them and, maybe, try to change their minds. For me, I'm a... Well, don't know the world in english, i guess polilover? Well, I don't believe in monogamy and, even if that's very very different from being trans, gay or whatever, it's still seen badly by most people in my country, so I can understand that we need to change things. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497536/#p497536 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @179, please explain how anyone is "shoving it onto you"? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497521/#p497521 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @jimmy, and now this is where I stop having any doubts about your intentions. It doesn't matter what you and your little troditionalist mind think, gender is a social construct, nothing more nothing less. The idea that gender is binary has already been debunked over the decades. Do your homework and come back again. Thanks for playing.@179, I do agree with you that bi / gay / whatever else being listed as genders is pretty stupid. Just understand that being trans doesn't automatically make you gay or lesbian, nore are they one in the same. Also, misgendering someone, if done intentionally that is, is a dick move no matter what you think. If you see someone random on the street and refer to them as male because you don't know them but it turns out they identify as female, you shouldn't be at falt so long as you can recognise your mistake. If you refuse to refer to someone with their chosen pronouns / name however, assuming you can actually get fined for doing that, it seems pretty fair to me. Small price to pay for the damage you're inflicting on to that person's mental health. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497516/#p497516 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? At Moose, thumbs up to you URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497512/#p497512 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? What I don't understand, is how bie, gay and lesbian are listed as genders. Those are sexualities. If you are lesbian, you are a female, who likes females! If you are bie, you like both males and females, etc.I do understand wanting to have autonomy over your bodies, but when you shove it on other people and complain when we don't understand is when it gets rediculous. E.G. I have heard that it is a possibility, or might already be a thing, that on Twitter, if you misgender someone you can get fined. How rediculous is that? You can not be held acountable for what one person appears to you as. Also, what happened to freedom of speech? Nowadays you can't say anything like this without severe backlash.This doesn't really have anything to do with the topic, but I'm using it as an example.Just yesterday there was a women's rights march. Now first of all, what rights do women not have? Women get treated better then men in most cases. Anyway, there were a couple of peacible groups that tried to talk to the march, to explain why they were wrong. The feminists met this with thrown objects, injuring several of the aposing group. This is assault, and you know how some of those people are, some of it was probably assault with intent to kill, or agrivated assault, or whatever. Point is that people seriously need to lighten up on this stuff.Your free to believe what you want, but do not force it on people.Thank you for your time. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497506/#p497506 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? OK I can understand trans, but there are only two genders no matter what you say URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497489/#p497489 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? It’s very complicated, but there are a lot more than just two genders. Some people just can’t exclusively relate to either gender. I was in a relationship with a bigender person for a long time so I can understand at least some of the emotional side of it. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497488/#p497488 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? How can you feel like more than male and female, when there’s only two genders URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497484/#p497484 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @crescent: Wow. THanks for the explanation. I have never heard about being bigender before. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497444/#p497444 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Bigender means feeling that you are two genders. they can be either at the same time, or at different times, and different strengths. For me, they are male and female. But since most people don't know what that is, i usually just say gender fluid, which is basically the same thing, but not necessarily for just two genders. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497416/#p497416 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Crescent, can you explain what that means please? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497409/#p497409 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @haily_merry I'm technically bigender, but I usually just go with gender fluid since its more commonly understood. As for pronouns, I'm good with all of them. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497343/#p497343 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? SLJ, just followed you on twitter. Expect a friend request in due course. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497314/#p497314 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Hi.@haily_merry: I can't find you on Facebook. However, I now have the link to my Facebook profile in my signature. Feel free to send me a friend request. That of course goes for others as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497305/#p497305 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
2020-01-30
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Off-topic room : Jaidon Of the Caribbean via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? You know whats funny in all this?Hailey, along with the people who decided to transition has more balls than the men who act all homofobe when their in the closet hiding. Hell! They have more balls than most of us. Some people are afraid to transition from 1 provence to another Slj, epic story. I wish you the best URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497214/#p497214 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Hi.@Sovs: Thank you very much.@crescent: Thank you very much. I totally agree that it's better to get questions than people start to assume things.It's okay with me if someone is having a problem by who I am. I just don't get how people can have a problem based on how other people feel. If those who are having a problem speak about things they know, then it's okay with me. But that's usually not what happens, when people say bad things about other people.@haily_merry: Thank you as well. Thanks for the comment you added. I also ment to say the same things about transgender, but there was so much to say that I properly forgot to do it. Really great explanation for people who doesn't know much about transgenders.@SirBadger: I get your question about being trapped in a body. Think about it like this:Imagine if your body was the opposite gender, but your personality, feelings and everything else was like the gender you currently is. For example, if your body was female and your personality and feelings was like a male. Then, you won't like your body, not at all. Your whole body will feel wrong, until you actually do something about it. Yes, you can hide it or try to accept it, but the feeling about something being totally wrong will not go away.@AlexN94: Thank you very much. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497188/#p497188 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @SLJ: Fantastic post! I'm glad that your story has turned out this well, given some experiences people have had. Also I'm so happy to hear that you've made a Facebook group like that. The blind community might be sort of small in Denmark, but there are probably still a fair amount of us that are part of the LGBTQAI community, so having a space like that is absolutely great! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497163/#p497163 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? SirBadger, it came from this:"I hope this is making some kind of sence. I can understand that people can feel like they are a male trapped in a female body or a female trapped in a male body. but why not embrace what and who you are rather than having things removed or put on. you will still be the same person at the end of it."That was really the only bit that made me flinch a little. And even then, it's not bad. It's just a very, very common question, so part of the flinch was reflexive.I'll say it again. Embracing who or what you are, for some people, means making changes, not just resigning themselves to what they have right this second. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497147/#p497147 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @152 I hope I wrote my post in a fair way and was genuinely asking to get some feedback on what trans gender people feel and how it affects them. in your post you say that if you are curious it's not a crime to ask questions. but in your responce to my post you said it made you cringe? I didn't insult anybody or say anything nasty. I was looking for input to help me understand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497141/#p497141 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? SLJ, great post. I'd just like to add something, just like being gay has no effect on who you really are as a person, your personality, etc, the same is also true of transgender people. Sure, we change as we transition, partly because of hormones, partly because of our trying to live like the opasit gender more, but our main characteristics don't change at all. In the end we're all just people just trying to live our lives the way we feel we aught to live them. The same is true of gay / bisexual people, this is coming from someone who is the latter. If you bumped into me on the street now you might be able to tell I'm trans because I haven't started hormones yet so still appear quite masculin in my appearance, and you could probably use that to guess as to my sexuality. A few months back though, before I had came out publicly and when it was still between me and some close friends / family, you wouldn't have any idea I'm bisexual, and not just because I was in a relationship with a girl at the time, but because I'm just the same as anyone else accept for the fact I'm attracted by both sexes, there are things about both that I love.Btw @crescent, just out of curiosity, what gender do you choose to identify as publicly? Is it just they / them or something or are you gender fluid? I once knew someone like that and I would have to ask them every day as we walked into school what pronouns they wanted used. Oh the memories. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497135/#p497135 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? SLJ, great post. I'd just like to add something, just like being gay has no effect on who you really are as a person, your personality, etc, the same is also true of transgender people. Sure, we change as we transition, partly because of hormones, partly because of our trying to live like the opasit gender more, but our main characteristics don't change at all. In the end we're all just people just trying to live our lives the way we feel we aught to live them. The same is true of gay / bisexual people, this is coming from someone who is the latter. If you bumped into me on the street now you might be able to tell I'm trans because I haven't started hormones yet so still appear quite masculin in my appearance, and you could probably use that to guess as to my sexuality. A few months back though, before I had came out publicly and when it was still between me and some close friends / family, you wouldn't have any idea I'm bisexual, and not just because I was in a relationship with a girl at the time, but because I'm just the same as anyone else accept for the fact I'm attracted by both sexes, there are things about both that I love. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497135/#p497135 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? The way I look at questions, about gender, or my disability are that i would rather have to answer questions, than have things assumed about me. @SLJ, nice to read your story. Hope everything works out for you in your relationship. It definitely wasn't a choice for me. In a way, I wish I could just choose to be cis, butI can't. I am who I am, and if that's a problem for someone, that's okay. I didn't understand it either, and dislike of a certain group of people usually stems from not being educated about them enough. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497134/#p497134 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? SLJ, that was one fantastic post right there. Huge, Huge thumbs up to you.Some fantastic explanations and some great points.I really, really don't get those people who has something against gay people, or trans genders for that matter.I know a few gay people and they are some of the nicest people i know. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497133/#p497133 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Hi all.I hope everyone who follow this topic reads this post. I'll try to explain things in a simple way.Please keep in mind that it's only my opinions, and explained out from how and what I feel. I don't mean to harm anyone. So if anyone feel offended in any ways after having read all this, then I hope you understand that this is not what I mean to do.If you find any of this helpful and if you can use it elsewhere, then feel free to quote the text, link to it, share it, refer to it or whatever you wanna do with it. It'll just make me happy if the text can be used to make people understand what it's all about. If you use the text in any ways, then please let people know who have written the text, if they have any questions.My story.There is much more into my story than I'll write on a public forum. But I'm willing to go into details privately for those who wanna know more.I grew up in a nice and very open minded family. No one knew people closely who are gay, me included. I knew one guy, but at that time, I didn't knew him good enough to ask him any questions about it. People around me didn't really talked about people who are gay. If they did, then it wasn't nice words. I learned much later in life that it was simply because people didn't knew better. Not because people had something against people who are gay, they didn't knew anyone, but simply because they didn't knew what to say about it. So they just said what they had heard from others.Those negative reactions around me made me think that it was wrong to be gay. I had my bad opinions about many things. I simply didn't knew better...I started to realize that I didn't got attracted to females. First I thought it was just a matter of finding the right girl, but no. It was like: People were nice and very friendly, but no attraction at all.I also started to realize that I got attracted to males instead. That feeling wouldn't go away, no matter if I liked it or not. It was no choice at all. As I didn't knew anyone who was gay, then I still thought it was wrong. Therefore, I was afraid to talk about it. I even tried to hide all this from myself, like I couldn't even say to myself that I am gay. Things just happened, and I was not able to control it in any ways.After I moved to my own place, then I could finally do something about it. I created a profile on a dating site for people who are gay, and started to meet some really nice and friendly guys. I won't go into details here, but I tell you it was, and still is paradise. Why? Because I finally met people who was equal to me. People who got attracted to men, like me. For a while, I had the feeling that I was the only one. I just had to realize and understand, that I'm not the only one who gets attracted to men, which I realized by meeting guys through the dating site. I didn't knew anyone I could ask about all the strange questions I had. Therefore, I had to learn and experience everything on my own. It was tough, extremely tough as blind. People with normal sight can just see some pictures, watch movies, tv shows etc. if they need any details which people don't normally talk about. There are even a lot of things which there aren't any words to describe. There are things which you either have to see with your eyes to understand, or to feel or experience on your own as blind to understand. One example is what people looks like, and how different people look. Many blind people might say we don't care that much, but its still important to know even when we can't see the difference, because we can learn a lot from that. I was forced to start from scratch and learn everything on my own, simply because I didn't knew anyone to ask, yet the simplest questions.Later on, I started to join parties in the gay community, and meet people in real life. People were so nice. Much nicer than if I joined normal parties for everyone. I really started to feel included, and it didn't really mattered that I'm blind. This community was really what opened the doors for me. I met so many nice and friendly guys. Asked them a ton of questions, started to feel and understand that it is okay to be gay, started to see many things from lots of different perspectives etc. because of all the awesome people I met.Everything was close to be perfect, but there was still missing one important thing for me: I was the only blind guy I knew who were gay. Everyone I knew was sighted. There are things which people don't normally talk about because they see it, so there is not the need for talking about things which everyone just expect everyone knows because of a normal sight. Because of that, it was still quite a tough time for me, and I still felt a bit alone, because I was the only blind guy.Finally, the time came where I felt ready to tell friends and family that I'm gay. I simply got enough of constantly trying to hide it, constantly finding excuses and all kind of bad things
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? A friend of mine is both blind and in a wheelchair and I can tell you from first hand experience that he has faced discrimination from both sides in the past. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497122/#p497122 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I generally do for my blindness what I've been doing in this thread for transgender stuff as well.Sometimes, most times really, I am polite and try to actually give factual information, or set aside misconceptions. But when that misinformation or misconception is the product of blatant disregard for facts, or when it's clear that a person is asking a question or raising an objection in what I perceive to be bad faith, I tend to be sharper and less forgiving. Again, this is true regardless of what we're talking about. I do not think any one group should get to bow out more than any other, though I think it's a good idea to point out that blind aren't very often barred from public bathrooms or beaten to death on account of their blindness. I mean yes, I'm sure persecution happens, even still, but they're not quite the same issues. For whatever reason, the intolerance of LGBT individuals seems to be more obviously and directly harmful...or perhaps just more violent, anyway. It appears more harmful because it's often more violent. It's also considerably newer, as we've had physical disability for centuries uncounted, yet we're only really digging into LGBT stuff in the last half-century or so. This means it might feel more raw because it's newer, which might generally lower tolerance to scrutiny and questions, especially when said scrutiny and questions are still so often used to gaslight and otherwise unreasonably burden people. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497120/#p497120 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? My girlfriend is sighted but uses a wheelchair. I get the sense that things are the same way for her. We've both had a good laugh overhearing other people in wheelchairs say some pretty silly things trying to educate others. So I don't think it's limited to us, unfortunately. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497118/#p497118 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I tend to agree, but it seems that the majority of blind people don't think that way. They think that anything less than going out of your way to present the perfect super blindy image to the sighted world is nothing short of letting people think that all the stereotypes are true, and how dare we have boundaries around the kinds of questions we don't feel we should have to answer. It's just curious to me how that works, when, in a similar situation, transgender people can easily bow out of being ambassadors. Maybe folks with other disabilities can as well. I mean, are the deaf saddled with this burden, or folks in wheelchairs? It's interesting to think about. If they are, that would be fascinating to know, though I'd feel bad that they encounter the same type of shitty pressure. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497112/#p497112 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @155 I'd dispute the ambassador thing, personally. If I barely know someone, or if we're just interacting casually, I have no qualms about giving them the 15-second answer to a question and inviting them to do their own research. The extent to which others choose to educate is their own business, but for my part, I keep that sort of thing to a minimum. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497106/#p497106 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Is it so much different than answering the same old ignorant questions about blindness? Of course there are nuances, but we're expected to be ambassadors and to embrace even the most probing of questions with open arms and open minds. Yet, because the issue is gender, people have a right to deflect the questioner and tell them to turn to possibly more unsavory sources? I don't buy that for an instant. If you stand out in some way, if you're not the norm, people are probably going to ask you a lot of things, most of which fall into the category of none of your damn business. Yet we all, regardless of what that difference is, press on and decide for ourselves which people and/or topics are worth engaging with. So, I say, don't give one type of difference priority over another, it all falls under the same umbrella in the end. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497104/#p497104 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @153: There is definitely a lot of misinformation to be found on the internet, but that's where you get a good chance to be sceptical of sources I guess. I get your point though, and I'm not trying to say that you should always just point to the nearest internet connection instead of answering questions.I am reminded of this article that, whilst being in regards to disabilities, still is about the educating of others:https://crippledscholar.com/2017/08/12/ … ion-to-go/ URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497097/#p497097 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @150, while google is great and all, sometimes that's how misinformation is spread. If someone is searching for stories about being transgender, then you might find more of what you want to see from religious people saying how its horrible and anyone who transitions is a dangerous monster. That's why I try and answer what I can, the best that I can. For myself, that's how i try and live everyday though, no matter what the question refers to. If you aren't willing to answer the same question a bunch of times, how do you expect them to learn about what you have to teach other than just what they want to read on google?As for the biological thing, technically, yes. I will always have two x chromosomes, until those can be changed easily enough that I can have it done everyday, but I doubt that will happen for me. No matter what I have done to my body, I will have two x chromosomes, making me sexually a female. That does not mean though that my gender is female, okay, partly, but its not a given. You're chromosomes only determine your sex, but not your gender. Gender is more complicated, but comes down to feelings about your sex, how you see the world and in most cases that I know about, your brain structure. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497076/#p497076 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Speaking for myself at least, I see the point here. Yes, it is usually a good idea to try and be friendly, or at the very least open when someone asks a question.When I have been unfriendly it is because of the way things have been approached. Genuine ignorance is nothing to ridicule, by any means, but that's not always what we're dealing with. Sometimes, what we're dealing with is people saying hurtful things, or making assumptions or statements, that merit a firmer response, in my own opinion at least.The underlying tag-along with "you should be nice" appears to be "you should honour our requests to learn more even though sometimes we're going to say and do things that upset you". I am personally not transgender, but I know people who are, I'm a leftist, and sometimes have felt the need to step in and help out, both as a staff member and just as a forum member as well. I have tried to answer questions even though sometimes my tone is sharp. I have tried to limit my sharpness to those who have said or done things that are actually problematic.And Alex is correct. If you're curious, it's not a crime to ask a question here, or anywhere else, but ultimately the only person in charge of what you learn is you. Not us, but you. This means that transgender folks, as well as those who come across stuff like this a lot, often deal with the same questions, the same rhetoric, the same ignorance, a lot. And again, speaking personally, it means that sometimes our patience is less than it could be, and we end up thinking, "Oh for god's sake not another one". That has definitely been my feeling for some of these posts, and for good reason.All that having been said, I am endeavouring to be understanding where it's merited, and a bit sharper where I feel it may do some good. I don't think I, or anyone else, is required to be sugary-sweet at all times, on this issue or any other, and I think that pushing on this hard enough veers into tone policing (no one has yet done this, BTW, which is awesome). Anyway, I hope this explains a little, at least from my own side. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497052/#p497052 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? It's not your job to educate others, but there is also nothing wrong in being a bit more friendly. Sometimes, the direct contact with people on a forum makes all the difference. Google is sometimes simply not enough. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497040/#p497040 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? It's not your job to educate others, but there is also nothing wrong in being a bit more friendly and open for discussion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497040/#p497040 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Because there's a thing such as Google where people can easily find blogs and articles from people that will happily explain and answer questions. It's not your job to educate others. Besides, plenty of questions most likely get asked a lot. Eventually you grow tired of explaining the same thing over and over. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497035/#p497035 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Completely agreed with 148! It's very possible to explain to someone why you think what they're saying is problematic without being rude. SLJ is the perfect example of how to explain something calmly and with a lot of empathy, so thumbs up for that. I understand that not everyone can do it that perfectly though, but just try to be civil. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/497013/#p497013 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? While I definitely am on Heily's side here and can understand her completely, I must say the general tone to answers regarding criticism or even just questions is a bit to harsh in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I'm not talking about Deadstar or Jonikster, but about other people who either aren't fully convinced or maybe just can't express themselves as eloquently as this topic needs due to language barriers. Being curious or critical is nothing bad, but if the first answer to these questions is "Your ignorance is showing and I wouldn't push this further, else you might get cautioned or warned" or "What do you want to proove with this?" will convince nobody. Why not just explain it or answer calmly? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496972/#p496972 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Hi.Okay, tonight I'll spend a lot of time to answer a lot of questions. I started on writing a draft yesterday. I should properly read through all the posts again to catch up and answer all the questions that I'm able to.I don't blame you for not knowing all those things. 1. A lot of people in the LGBT community are not good at explaining things in a simple way.2. As most of us are blind, we cannot see pictures, see persons in real life etc. There are simply things we need to get described. If we don't get the right descriptions, then we will naturally start to imagine things and believe things which is wrong. Therefore, we need descriptions which sighted people normally don't talk about to fully understand what's going on.Need an example on what I mean? Then read the post where someone write that he don't like transgender people, their hair and voices cannot be equal to a woman. That is totally wrong. That is so wrong that he wouldn't even notice if he met a transgender person. But I know what he means, I know what his issue is and I don't blame him for not knowing better, because people haven't actually taken the time to explain all this in a simple way. So how should people know better?I just hope I'll be able to explain all this in a simple way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496935/#p496935 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I think Liam means the genetic versus environmental contribution to causing it. I found a wikipedia article about it here, and the short answer is yes, there does seem to be a genetic component. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496909/#p496909 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Liam, I'd encourage you to say what you mean here. Ignorance is one of those things we all have to deal with. it's no crime to be ignorant, to just not get a thing or to not understand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496905/#p496905 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I want to sleep, will respond in more detail in the morning. To answer your question I’m 15 URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496894/#p496894 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Jimmy, I'm genuinely curious to know what your end gole is here. Like, are you just stirring the pot or are you trying to prove some kind of point? Are you saying calling me a woman is now invalid because of my biological makeup? Am I just a thing now or something? A something? Or are you expecting me to still refer to myself as a man whilst still using female pronouns? I'm just truly confused what you're even trying to do here, and I'd like to think you're not just being a bigot for the sake of bigotry, as likely as that seems from where I'm standing.About your little name comment in the bloodbath topic? Context is key. Right after I replied to someone who dead named me most likely by mistake correcting them, you pop in asking what my name legally is. I just don't know how you couldn't have seen the backlash coming right there. It pretty much just looks like you're trying to invalidate my request to be called Haily just because of the context in which you posted. This would have been fine if you'd at least explained why you were asking in your post, but still.Just to prove my point slightly,How old are you again? I'm thinking around 13 or 14, based off of prior TT conversations from 2018 where you told me you were 12. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496893/#p496893 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? That's not quite what I meant, but if I rephrase my question, I feel like I'm goign to open up a can of worms that should stay closed. I know when to give up. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496886/#p496886 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Liam, as far as I know, there is no way to change your straight-up genetics to go from xx to xy at this point.However, hormones and surgery can do a lot of the everyday stuff. I mean, your chromosomes do not impact every single thing you do in a big way. And when they do have an impact - which of course they must - this can, as I noted in my last post, be messed around with.It's really dicey, but with every year that passes, we're getting more and more confident of our ability to separate biological sex and gender, not to mention our ability to have people transition in every meaningful way we can. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496878/#p496878 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Haily. I obviously don't know for sure how it is to be in your situation, but i could imagine it is not exactly easy and happy days. I wish you best of luck.I am also disgusted by some people in this topic. It fucking disgusts me to see what level of stupididy some people are going down to. Just, yuck.I do think the admins delt with it in a very good way, though. Thanks for that, guys. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496867/#p496867 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Haily. I obviously don't know for sure how it is to be in your situation, but i could imagine it is not exactly easy and happy days. I wish you best of luck.I am also disgusted by some people in this topic. It fucking disgusts me to see what level of stupididy some people are going down to. Just, yuck.I do think the admins delt with it in a very good way. Thanks for that, guys. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496867/#p496867 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Question. I haven't had a chance to read up on this, but have there been studies done to see if this falls on a genetic level as well? I suppose it opens the nature vs. nurture debates. God let's not start that, but I'm just curious what's been looked at. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496863/#p496863 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? @137, read post 136... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496857/#p496857 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I agree with 135 here. Even Science understands that Gender and Sex are different. I posted a link to an article that (sort of) explains this, though I also posted the query I used on Google. I'd recommend you read that article and use that query, Jimmy69. You might learn that what you believe in is, in fact, incorrect. Science definitely isn't perfect. In order for you to fully believe in science and logic, you have to understand -- embrace, even -- that science will change. Science may say that Sex and Gender are inseparable. That only holds until new evidence comes along and says, "No, that might not be right, this is what really happens." Its the beauty of the scientific method. Really, Science is never static. Nothing in it is undisputable, unquestionable. You know the hole scientific law that says that nothing can travel faster than light? There's a theory out there called the Tachyon theory which hypothesizes that there is a particle, the Tachyon, that is capable of moving faster than the speed of light. It hasn't been proven yet, but it is theorized that such a particle does, in fact, exist. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496855/#p496855 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? The name thing, oh the name thing. That my friend, was literally just a curious question that was taken way out of proportion and out of context. When I posted that, I meant no harm to Haley. I was legitimately curious. But you know, apparently because I asked that I’m an extreme far right radical anti-trans person yeah? I’m not at my computer at the moment, but when I get back I will provide sources URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496856/#p496856 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I agree with 135 here. Even Science understands that Gender and Sex are different. I posted a link to an article that (sort of) explains this, though I also posted the query I used on Google. I'd recommend you read that article and use that query, Jimmy69. Youmight learn that what you believe in is, in fact, incorrect. Science definitely isn't perfect. In order for you to fully believe in science and logic, you have to understand -- embrace, even -- that science will change. Science may say that Sex and Gender are inseparable. That only holds until new evidence comes along and says, "No, that might nto be right, this is what really happens." Its the beauty ofthe scientific method. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496855/#p496855 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Just as an addendum to the above, I'll provide a glimpse of said research I've done:Excerpted from Wikipedia and researched elsewhere:Several medical conditions can result in an apparent sex change in humans, where the appearance at birth is somewhat, mostly, or completely of one sex, but changes over the course of a lifetime to being somewhat, mostly, or completely of the other sex. The overwhelming majority of natural sex changes are from a female appearance at birth to a male appearance after puberty, due to either 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (5alpha-RD-2) or 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency (17beta-HSD-3).[8][9] A relative handful of male to female changes have been reported, and the etiologies of these are not well understood.Genetic females (with two X chromosomes) with congenital adrenal hyperplasia lack an enzyme needed by the adrenal gland to make the hormones cortisol and aldosterone. Without these hormones, the body produces more androgens. This causes male sex characteristics to appear early (or inappropriately).Genetic males (with one X and one Y chromosome) with androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) are resistant to androgens. As a result, the person has some or all of the physical characteristics of a female, despite having the genetic makeup of a male. The degree of sexual ambiguity varies widely in persons with incomplete AIS. Incomplete AIS can include other disorders such as Reifenstein syndrome which is associated with breast development in men.The point here is that no, you can't change your double x or x-y chromosomal pairing. But that is not the only or the sole determinant of your sex.And if you want to see some crazy examples of gender and sex in the animal kingdom, go look up hyenas, clownfish (they're especially interesting), and even chickens.The fact is just this. If you are trying to reduce the whole nomenclature debate to chromosomes, you're oversimplifying, and there's no good reason for it. Yes, chromosomes are part of the stew, but they are not the only part nor, in some cases, even the most important one. After all, if it's possible to have a female chromosome pattern but in pretty much every other way be male, then what are you? Do you slavishly default to chromosomes, or do you take in the whole picture and make a judgment that way? Me, I pick the latter, because that's good science.Also, would you mind overmuch if I asked where you get your info that gender and sex are the same thing? You didn't hear that on Fox News, by chance? or from a right-wing religious group purporting to employ scientists?Twenty, thirty, sixty years ago, sex and gender were used pretty interchangeably. Now, as we learn more about gender dysphoria and how the brain works, we're beginning to understand that they're not the same thing.People who devote themselves to this line of thinking - that you are what your chromosomes say you are - do it for a variety of reasons. I won't hazard a guess as to why you're doing it, but I'd like to point out that I can recall a time not so long ago where you asked what Haily's birth name was, ostensibly because you wanted to cite the argument that this is the name Haily should actually go by until such time that it is legally changed.If you end up pushing this far enough that you get cautioned or warned, it will not be because you are "stating facts". It will be because you are stepping into a topic and smearing ignorant viewpoints all over the place, citing your right to free speech. Yes, you have a right to do this, technically, but you also have the right to accept the consequences for doing so. You are not, at this point, being warned or cautioned. But say there was something that was very upsetting to you, and you made a thread about it. Would you appreciate someone entering your thread only to nitpick, especially if that nitpickery made you feel personally invalidated? I'm just not sure what good you think you're actually doing here, that's all. And given that you may be upsetting those who are actually experiencing gender dysphoria, your persistence may be construed as an unprovoked personal attack.Let me put this another way. Let's say you're a musician, and you love, love, love the violin. You make a post about it, you want to talk about it. Someone claims that what you actually like is fiddle music, not violin music, and proceeds to argue with you about specifics of one of the things you love most. Annoying and pedantic, right?Now, okay, that would be bothersome enough, but you'd get over it.Now imagine that this thing you posted about was something you were struggling with, instead of just a hobby. A part of your identity. A thing that you've been catching hell for from others. A thing where you feel constantly as if you're having to prove yourself. And some person comes into your thread and argues with you for no good reason.Just have a care, is all I'm saying. Even if your
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Just as an addendum to the above, I'll provide a glimpse of said research I've done:Excerpted from Wikipedia and researched elsewhere:Several medical conditions can result in an apparent sex change in humans, where the appearance at birth is somewhat, mostly, or completely of one sex, but changes over the course of a lifetime to being somewhat, mostly, or completely of the other sex. The overwhelming majority of natural sex changes are from a female appearance at birth to a male appearance after puberty, due to either 5-alpha-reductase deficiency (5alpha-RD-2) or 17-beta-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase deficiency (17beta-HSD-3).[8][9] A relative handful of male to female changes have been reported, and the etiologies of these are not well understood.Genetic females (with two X chromosomes) with congenital adrenal hyperplasia lack an enzyme needed by the adrenal gland to make the hormones cortisol and aldosterone. Without these hormones, the body produces more androgens. This causes male sex characteristics to appear early (or inappropriately).Genetic males (with one X and one Y chromosome) with androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) are resistant to androgens. As a result, the person has some or all of the physical characteristics of a female, despite having the genetic makeup of a male. The degree of sexual ambiguity varies widely in persons with incomplete AIS. Incomplete AIS can include other disorders such as Reifenstein syndrome which is associated with breast development in men.The point here is that no, you can't change your double x or x-y chromosomal pairing. But that is not the only or the sole determinant of your sex.And if you want to see some crazy examples of gender and sex in the animal kingdom, go look up hyenas, clownfish (they're especially interesting), and even chickens.The fact is just this. If you are trying to reduce the whole nomenclature debate to chromosomes, you're oversimplifying, and there's no good reason for it. Yes, chromosomes are part of the stew, but they are not the only part nor, in some cases, even the most important one. After all, if it's possible to have a female chromosome pattern but in pretty much every other way be male, then what are you? Do you slavishly default to chromosomes, or do you take in the whole picture and make a judgment that way? Me, I pick the latter, because that's good science. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496852/#p496852 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? No Jade. Gender and sex are synonyms. This is widely excepted in the scientific community. Gender and sex are what we use to categorize organisms. There is no identifying when it comes to a biological construct. Biology is the building block of the universe. We cannot change it no matter what. Being trans means that you are taking on physical alterations to make yourself look like the opposite sex. It is also identifying with stereotypes attributed to a certain sex. Haley, who identifies as a woman, is physically mail. There is no debating that fact. However, she may feel that she wants to represent herself with the characteristics and stereotypes of females. There is nothing wrong with that. However, at the end of the day we have to realize that Haley, on a biological level, is 100% male. That is an indisputable fact that cannot be circumvented. Haley identifies herself with the stereotypes that a company being female. But again, technically on a biological level she is mail. This is not a personal attack this is simply me pointing out the fax. If I get a warning for stating not only fax, but my own beliefs, that will be very telling. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496851/#p496851 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? Jimmy69, your ignorance is showing.What you are talking about is biological sex. It is true that someone's cell structure and DNA cannot be changed at a fundamental level, and that in that way alone, it is impossible to fully become another biological sex than the one you were born with.However, biological sex doesn't really matter all that much. I urge you to do some research on this.Frankly, I was waiting for this shoe to drop, so thank you for outing yourself.Gender is indeed a social construct. We treat males and females in specific ways which reinforce thoughts, behaviour patterns and even long-term expectations. What we've been doing for a long, long time is tying gender and sex together inextricably, but this does not have to be the case, and in cases such as those expressed by folks like Haily and Daigonite in this topic alone, it's very clear that there's harm being done.If you're cisgender, like me, then it's very easy to just want things to be simple, because frankly it doesn't affect us much one way or the other. The thought might go, "Well, why do we have to separate these things?", and buried in that question is the feeling that "well hey, it works for me, and it works for most of the people I know, so surely it's okay that it's the norm". Statistically, yes, it does work for most people, but when an alternative (i.e., the separation of sex and gender) hurts absolutely no one while supporting a framework wherein transgender folks feel better understood, what's the harm?There isn't any. Simple.When I was sixteen or so, and came across the idea of changing genders for the first time, I was indeed pretty resistant to it. But see, I've had twenty years or so to think about that first response, and to realize it was shortsighted at best and straight-up harmful at worst. I've also had time to do a lot of research about biology and sex in the natural world, and there are some insanely weird things that sometimes go on. What it comes down to, however, is that I realized the "be what you were born as" language doesn't even work in nature sometimes, so we shouldn't be clinging to it here.Haily is female. That's an end to it. I recommend that you not try and push this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496850/#p496850 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? No. You identify as a woman, but biologically your a mail. You can absolutely not change that. You can identify as whatever you like, but gender is not a social construct. Gender, is a biological construct used to group organisms by the way we reproduce. It cannot be changed no matter what you want to believe. Your Cells will always have an XY chromosome. I really believe we need to come up with a new term for identification, because gender cannot be changed no matter what URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496845/#p496845 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Any fello transgender people on here?
Re: Any fello transgender people on here? I am, not I'd like to be. Big difference. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/496843/#p496843 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
