Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @24 like quite a few other games at the time Wolfenstein had textured polygons for walls and bitmap sprites for enemies, viewed in first person so the sprites appeared in 3d space. Doom was an evolution of this. Still the same flat map, but areas of it shifted up and down. So you could for example walk up stairs, but you couldn't walk over the top of another room.Going back even further than Wolfenstein, Robocop 3 on the Atari ST and Amiga was an early example of a fully polygonal FPS, both levels and enemies.. though with Wolfenstein style flat levels.FPS games with fully 3d environments and enemies (textured polygons for enemies, ability to aim up and down, level maps impossible to render as a flat 2d representation) came shortly Doom's success, Descent and Quake were early examples. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491495/#p491495 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @24 Wolfenstein had textured polygons for walls and bitmap sprites for enemies, viewed in first person so the sprites appearing in 3d space. Doom was an evolution of this. Still the same flat map, but areas of it shifted up and down. So you could for example walk up stairs, but you couldn't walk over the top of another room.Going back even further than Wolfenstein, Robocop 3 on the Atari ST and Amiga was an early example of a fully polygonal FPS, both levels and enemies.. though with Wolfenstein style flat levels.FPS games with fully 3d environments and enemies (textured polygons for enemies, ability to aim up and down, level maps impossible to render as a flat 2d representation) came shortly after, Descent and Quake were early examples. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491495/#p491495 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @24 Wolfenstein had textured polygons for walls and bitmap sprites for enemies, viewed in first person so the sprites appearing in 3d space. Doom was an evolution of this. Still the same flat map, but areas of it shifted up and down. So you could for example walk up stairs, but you couldn't walk over the top of another room.Going back even further than Wolfenstein, Robocop 3 on the Atari ST and Amiga was an early example of a fully polygonal FPS, both levels and enemies.. though with Wolfenstein style flat levels.FPS games with fully 3d environments and enemies (textured polygons for enemies, ability to aim up and down, level maps impossible to render as a flat 2d representation) came a little later, IIRC some of the first were a terminator game URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491495/#p491495 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-07
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AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Ok that makes sence. After writing that last post, I remembered about playing doom on the snes. I dont think that was 3d, but I think it is a first person shooter. Around that time, fps were primarily popular on pc, until rare brought golden eye to the n64. That had to be 3d, and it was an fps. If I recall, that was the game that popularized headshots as well. Having said that, swamp probably has more in common with doom than it does golden eye. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491103/#p491103 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games The rooftop on map2, and the balcony in the Factory, and the multi-tiered factory on sub3, are all 2d, cleverly arranged to give the illusion of 3d. These actually predate the feature that masks your coordinates when you press enter to climb things, which Aprone added because people wanted that extra layer to make the faux-3d more believable.What makes this weird from the perspective of visuals is that you're usually faking depth, rather than height, and that you can't have this sort of first person perspective with such faux-3d without adding graphics tricks that effectively make it 3d. So were Swamp an FPS, it'd be considered 3d, but since only the audio is first person, the height illusions are, imo, more analogous to the illusions that games like Golden Axe and Spider-man and Venom: Maximum Carnage use.(And I really just want to stop and figure out how Maximum Carnage does it. Does it ever mix styles for multi-tiered environments, or are all the skyscraper climbs with single-tile ledges? I really wish I had the attention span to try and recreate these things. I suppose it's not too complicated. It's just neat how much mileage one can get from such simple tricks (and how few games that try to push it I've actually played).) URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491095/#p491095 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games That's true about the shooting in swamp. I guess that's a way to give blind players one less thing to worry about. On the second map there is a rooftop you can take out zombies from, and of course you have to use stairs to get there. When I was sniping those things, I sorta figured the game was taking care of the vertical aiming for me, so maybe the stairs are kinda disguising the z after all, but I am inclined to think not. Maybe I just associate a game played from the first person perspective where up is forward with 3d things.. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491084/#p491084 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @20 ah, ok. I see where you get the difference from in regards to fighting games... not the way I've seen them categorized, but I can definitely respect that understanding as well. There definitely are Fatal Fury games labelled as 3d, I just don't remember specifically which ones. In either case, what you said makes sense. Also true point about Shadow Line and the False Z axis. Never thought of it like that before. I think I'd still call swamp 2d though, going onto rooftops and whatnot isn't actually a vertical transition from what I remember, just entering a different map... but I haven't played it in ages. Also, you can only shoot on a horrizontal plain.Lastly, what you described about knowing how a game plays is definitely a helpful way to figure out whether a game has the potential to be playable. It's how I do it as well. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491078/#p491078 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @20 ah, ok. I see where you get the difference from in regards to fighting games... not the way I've seen them categorized, but I can definitely respect that understanding as well. There definitely are Fatal Fury games labelled as 3d, I just don't remember specifically which ones. In either case, what you said makes sense. Also true point about Shadow Line and the False Z axis. Never thought of it like that before. I think I'd still call swamp 2d though, going onto rooftops and whatnot isn't actually a vertical transition from what I remember, just entering a different map... but I haven't played it in ages. Also, you can only shoot on a horrizontal plain. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491078/#p491078 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games 19 is right about tekken and some mk titles being 3d actually. Heck even doa which I mentioned earlier is. Still wouldn't call fatal fury or bleach ds 3d though, and the reason is because they are 2d games that vive you the delusion of 3d by allowing you to step into another plain in the background, whereas the other games I mentioned above do have 3d graphics in addition to allowing to move along the y, thus giving it that extra 0.5d to become fully 3d. If a 3d fighter has 360 movement, then it usually said to be having such in a review.Speaking of which, that's usually how I determine whether a game is playable or not. Still, reviews would imply that a game like Touhou Kobuto V: Burst Battle is playable, but my brother thinks that the bullet hell elements would make it difficult. On the other hand, you have a fighting game like Destrega that have full 3d movement plus long ranged combat, and I didn't buy it because the reviews mentioned that, but having played it now, it's not too hard at all. The bottom line is to get opinions from several sources before diving in, or actually trying a game first hand. What my brother does these days is compare the movement of the inquired game to that of which I'm already familiar with, and it helps, having played tons of them now. Even reviews and descriptions do this, and you can use that to help you decide whether a game is playable. In this sence, 9 is correct about the movement being more important than the perspective. You just need a point of reference to be able to compare it to something you already know.Also, I definitely think swamp is played from the first person 3d perspective. It might seem like it doesn't have a z, but you do travel onto rooftops and underground in addition to having 3d tanklike controls, whereas a game like shadow line, though having a false z with all those cliffs remains 2d because of its graphics and top-down nature. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491066/#p491066 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games 19 is right about tekken and some mk titles being 3d actually. Heck even doa which I mentioned earlier is. Still wouldn't call fatal fury or bleach ds 3d though, and the reason is because they are 2d games that vive you the delusion of 3d by allowing you to step into another plain in the background, whereas the other games I mentioned above do have 3d graphics in addition to allowing to move along the y, thus giving it that extra 0.5d to become fully 3d. If a 3d fighter has 360 movement, then it usually said to be having such in a review.Speaking of which, that's usually how I determine whether a game is playable or not. Still, reviews would imply that a game like Touhou Kobuto V: Burst Battle is playable, but my brother thinks that the bullet hell elements would make it difficult. On the other hand, you have a fighting game like Destrega that have full 3d movement plus long ranged combat, and I didn't buy it because the reviews mentioned that, but having played it now, it's not too hard at all. The bottom line is to get opinions from several sources before diving in, or actually trying a game first hand. What my brother does these days is compare the movement of the inquired game to that of which I'm already familiar with, and it helps, having played tons of them now. Even reviews and descriptions do this, and you can use that to help you decide whether a game is playable. In this sence, 9 is correct about the movement being more important than the perspective. You just need a point of reference to be able to compare it to something you already know.Also, I definitely think swamp is played from the first person. It might seem like it doesn't have a z, but you do travel onto rooftops and underground in addition to having 3d tanklike controls, whereas a game like shadow line, though having a false z with all those cliffs remains 2d because of its graphics and top-down nature. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491066/#p491066 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games 19 is right about tekken and some mk titles being 3d actually. Heck even doa which I mentioned earlier is. Still wouldn't call fatal fury or bleach ds 3d though, and the reason is because they are 2d games that vive you the delusion of 3d by allowing you to step into another plain in the background, whereas the other games I mentioned above do have 3d graphics in addition to allowing to move along the y, thus giving it that extra 0.5d to become fully 3d. If a 3d fighter has 360 movement, then it usually said to be having such in a review.Speaking of which, that's usually how I determine whether a game is playable or not. Still, reviews would imply that a game like Touhou Kobuto V: Burst Battle is playable, but my brother thinks that the bullet hell elements would make it difficult. On the other hand, you have a fighting game like Destrega that have full 3d movement plus long ranged combat, and I didn't buy it because the reviews mentioned that, but having played it now, it's not too hard at all. The bottom line is to get opinions from several sources before diving in, or actually trying a game first hand. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491066/#p491066 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Just a quick note here... 2.5 d, at least in fighting games, is usually refered to in terms of the way the graphics are done. Street Fighter IV is considered 2.5D. If a game allows you to sidestep or similar like in Tekken or in some of the Fatal Fury / Mortal Kombat games, they have been refered to always and still are refered to as 3d fighters.@9 thanks for clarifying so many points! There definitely were a lot of terms I wasn't clear on, and a few misunderstandings that I wasn't confident in my knowledge of to bring up. @SLJ, if you want to look for games based on their movement systems, you will have a tough time of it... there's generally no way to find out this info unless the developer specifies it, or unless you find it in a review or game description. The best approach, of course, is to ask someone on a forum, but even then you will get more negativity for asking something so seemingly obvious from people who don't understand the needs of a blind gamer. But I agree with @13 that developers may want to consider describing basic movement though again, as stated before, listing controls or the type of camera doesn't really have an impact on how playable a game will be since most of those things are about visual perspective. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491052/#p491052 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : assault_freak via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Just a quick note here... 2.5 d, at least in fighting games, is usually refered to in terms of the way the graphics are done. Street Fighter IV is considered 2.5D. If a game allows you to sidestep or similar like in Tekken or in some of the Fatal Fury / Mortal Kombat games, they have been refered to always and still are refered to as 3d fighters.@9 thanks for clarifying so many points! There definitely were a lot of terms I wasn't clear on, and a few misunderstandings that I wasn't confident in my knowledge of to bring up. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491052/#p491052 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : magurp244 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @16I would respectfully disagree. The popularity of referring to 2.5D as a fixed 3D perspective doesn't make its other definitions an anachronism, considering more recent releases such as Void Bastards, Hyperspace Delivery Service, Ion Fury, Fight Knight, Megaman 8-bit Deathmatch, etc. which use the term to represent sudo-3D projection. Try browsing the 2.5D category on steam and itch.io, or google 2.5D games and look at images, you'll still find isometric and sudo-3D games mixed in there. But I digress...This issue of perspective is rather interesting, but would a game like swamp, which is predominantly played along a 2D axis be considered 3D if the audio representing it is in 3D? Would the definition of 2.5D apply to a sudo-3D audio projection of a 2D environment? Would the use of Mono sounds be considered analog 2D projection? Oh, the symantics! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491027/#p491027 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : magurp244 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @16I would respectfully disagree. The popularity of referring to 2.5D as a fixed 3D perspective doesn't make its other definitions an anachronism, considering more recent releases such as Void Bastards, Hyperspace Delivery Service, Ion Fury, Fight Knight, Megaman 8-bit Deathmatch, etc. which use the term to represent sudo-3D projection. Try browsing the 2.5D category on steam and itch.io, or google 2.5D games and look at images, you'll still find isometric and sudo-3D games mixed in there. But I digress...This issue of perspective is rather interesting, but would a game like swamp, which is predominantly played along a 2D axis be considered 3D if the audio representing it is in 3D? Would the definition of 2.5D apply to a sudo-3D audio projection of a 2D environment? Would the use of Mono sounds be considered analog 2D projection? Can 3D audio be considered true 3D if it can't adequately simulate sound projection from above or below? Oh, the symantics! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491027/#p491027 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : magurp244 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @16I would respectfully disagree. The popularity of referring to 2.5D as a fixed 3D perspective doesn't make its other definitions an anachronism, considering more recent releases such as Void Bastards, Hyperspace Delivery Service, Ion Fury, Fight Knight, Megaman 8-bit Deathmatch, etc. which use the term to represent sudo-3D projection. Try browsing the 2.5D category on steam and itch.io, or google 2.5D games and look at images, you'll still find isometric and sudo-3D games mixed in there. But I digress...This issue of perspective is rather interesting, but would a game like swamp, which is predominantly played along a 2D axis be considered 3D if the audio representing it is in 3D? Would the definition of 2.5D apply to a sudo-3D audio projection of a 2D environment? Would the use of Mono sounds be considered analog 2D projection? Oh, the symantics! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491027/#p491027 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : magurp244 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @16I would respectfully disagree. The popularity of referring to 2.5D as a fixed 3D perspective doesn't make its other definitions an anachronism, considering more recent releases such as Void Bastards, Hyperspace Delivery Service, Ion Fury, Fight Knight, Megaman 8-bit Deathmatch, etc. which use the term to represent sudo-3D projection. Try browsing the 2.5D category on steam and itch.io, or google 2.5D games and look at images, you'll still find isometric and sudo-3D games mixed in there. But I digress...This issue of perspective is rather interesting, but would a game like swamp, which is predominantly played along a 2D axis be considered 3D if the audio representing it is in 3D? Would the symantic definition of 2.5D apply to a sudo-3D audio projection of a 2D environment? Would the use of Mono sounds be considered analog 2D projection? Oh, the symantics! URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491027/#p491027 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @16 old or not, it's still relevant today as long as modern games make use of the technique. It's especially true today, given the resurgence of retro game, and their retro-inspired counterparts.I agree that devs need to do a better jobs at describing their gameplay in terms of control instead of just leaving that up to the screenshots and trailers. I have read dozens upon dozens of psn descriptions for games that do a great job at story telling, but leave me scratching my head because I know almost nothing of what gameplay for said game is like. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491012/#p491012 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @16 old or not, it's still relevant today as long as modern games make use of the technique. It's especially true today, given the resurgence of retro game, and their retro-inspired counterparts.I agree that devs need to do a better jobs at describing their gameplay in terms of control instead of just leaving that up to the screenshots and trailers. I have read dozens upon dozens of psn descriptions that do a great job at story telling, but leave me scratching my head because I know almost nothing of what gameplay is like. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491012/#p491012 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @16 old or not, it's still relevant today as long as modern games make use of the technique. It's especially true today, given the resurgence of retro game, and their retro-inspired counterparts. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491012/#p491012 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games @10 that's a really old definition, it isn't used any more@13 happy to help!You could keep an eye out for games referred to as top-down. But it's a tough gig, it can be hard to get that kind of info.Really for accessibly reasons in general outside of blindness developers need to be publishing information about what their controls are.. but that doesn't tell you anything about the camera. The controls for first person and third person can be exactly the same (left stick move, right stick camera) but that doesn't tell you anything at all about the direction you move in relative to the camera. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/491006/#p491006 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : skluttrell via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Perhaps these articles will clear things up.Video Game Graphics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_graphicsVirtual Camera System: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_camera_systemFirst-Person Gaming: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-person_(gaming)Isometric video game graphics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric … e_graphics2.5D: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2.5D URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490950/#p490950 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games That is a game played from the top-down perspective. You will find some minigames like those in crazy party referred to as being played from above. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490899/#p490899 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games That is a game played from the top-down perspective. You will find some minigames like those in crazy party referred to as being played from avove. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490899/#p490899 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games That is a game played from the top-down perspective. You will find minigames in crazy party referred to as such. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490899/#p490899 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Hi all.Wow. Thank you so much for all your awesome replies.I've learned so much already, and it's a much more complex topic than I thought from the beginning.After having reading all your comments, I feel this is even more important that we blind gamers have an idea about how all this works.@ianhamilton_ in post 9:Thanks for such great and interesting explanation. I thought the movement and the camera angle was combined together. So, if I for example wanna find more mainstream games which have the simple movement, up, down, left and right, how would I then check up on this before buying a game to give it a try?I'm still thinking about updating the first post with information out from your great comments, because I think it is very important that we blind gamers know more about all this. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490871/#p490871 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Yeah, I'd consider Streets of Rage 2.5d. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490870/#p490870 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games See that bit about having limited access to the y is what I'm referring to when I talk about games like streets of rage being 2.5d, and I have read numerous times of these beat em ups being referred to as such, else I wouldn't be making such a statement. I have also heard of 2d games with 3d graphics being referred to as 2.5d, though such occurrences are more rare so it slipped my mind. And I just asked my sighted brother about a game that allows you to jump into the background while being 2d, in particular fatal fury, and he immediately told me that's 2.5d.I think that the reason we associate the movements with the perspectives is because they are often associated with those perspectives. Indeed there are games with a third person perspective that play like a first person game. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490838/#p490838 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games See that bit about having limited access to the y is what I'm referring to when I talk about games like streets of rage being 2.5d, and I have read numerous times of these beat em ups being referred to as such, else I wouldn't be making such a statement. I have also heard of 2d games with 3d graphics being referred to as 2.5d, though such occurrences are more rare so it slipped my mind. And I just asked my sighted brother about a game that allows you to jump into the background while being 2d, in particular fatal fury, and he immediately told me that's 2.5d. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490838/#p490838 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games See that bit about having limited access to the y is what I'm referring to when I talk about games like streets of rage being 2.5d, and I have read numerous times of these beat em ups being referred to as such, else I wouldn't be making such a statement. I have also heard of 2d games with 3d graphics being referred to as 2.5d, though such occurrences are more rare so it slipped my mind. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490838/#p490838 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : magurp244 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Hm... As I said, 2.5D has a few different definitions depending on the context. The 2.5D to which I referred to involves sudo-3D projection with 2D sprites.[Wolfenstein3D]:While the levels are presented in a 3D perspective, the enemies and objects are instead 2D sprites presented from several set viewing angles, a technique sometimes referred to as 2.5D graphics.[Isometric Graphics]:The terms "3/4 perspective", "2.5D", and "pseudo-3D" are also sometimes used, although these terms can possess slightly different meanings in other contexts.[2.5D]:The two-and-a-half-dimensional (2.5D, alternatively three-quarter and pseudo-3D) perspective is either 2D graphical projections and similar techniques used to cause images or scenes to simulate the appearance of being three-dimensional (3D) when in fact they are not, or gameplay in an otherwise three-dimensional video game that is restricted to a two-dimensional plane with a limited access to the third dimension. By contrast, games using 3D computer graphics without such restrictions are said to use true 3D. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490835/#p490835 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games There's quite a bit of misunderstanding in this thread!But first about how to talk to sighted gamers about this stuff. Don't talk about movement. The movement is secondary from and results from the camera angles. That's what these different things are, different camera angles.In first person the camera is located inside the character's head. It's impossible for the camera to face in a different direction to character.In third person the camera is detached from the character and floating ten feet or so behind their head. It is usually possible for the camera to face a different direction to the character, as the character turns to face the direction you're moving them in, while the camera doesn't rotate unless you rotate it manually using the right stick."Simple movement: up down left right" is top-down camera, the camera directly above the character looking down at the top of their head. "2.5d" does not mean being able to move in and out of the screen. It is a purely visual effect. It means a 2d game with 3d visuals.That's a hard thing to explain, but I'll try. In a fully 3D game an enemy is like a sculpture, it's a fully three dimensional object than can be rotated and around and viewed from any angle, it can be affected realistically by how light falls on it. And you're free to move anywhere you want - in an out of the screen as well as up and down. In a 2D game an enemy is like a drawing, it has only one side. And you can only move up/down/left/right, not into and out of the screen.In a 2.5d game you can only move up/down/left/right, not in and out of the screen. But the enemies are like sculptures not drawings. So it's pretty much the opposite of what has been said in the thread. It's a 2d game with 3D models, which makes the animation and scenery look very different even though the gameplay is 2d. Street fighter 1, 2 and 3 are all straight up 2d games, but Street fighter four and five are 2.5d, you can only move on a 2d plane but the fighters and background look 3d. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490824/#p490824 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games There's quite a bit of misunderstanding in this thread!But first about how to talk to sighted gamers about this stuff. Don't talk about movement. The movement is secondary from and results from the camera angles. That's what these different things are, different camera angles.In first person the camera is located inside the character's head. It's impossible for the camera to face in a different direction to character.In third person the camera is detached from the character and floating ten feet or so behind their head. It is usually possible for the camera to face a different direction to the character, as the character turns to face the direction you're moving them in, while the camera doesn't rotate unless you rotate it manually using the right stick."Up down left right" is top-down camera, the camera directly above the character looking down at the top of their head. "2.5d" does not mean being able to move in and out of the screen. It is a purely visual effect. It means a 2d game with 3d visuals.That's a hard thing to explain, but I'll try. In a fully 3D game an enemy is like a sculpture, it's a fully three dimensional object than can be rotated and around and viewed from any angle, it can be affected realistically by how light falls on it. And you're free to move anywhere you want - in an out of the screen as well as up and down. In a 2D game an enemy is like a drawing, it has only one side. And you can only move up/down/left/right, not into and out of the screen.In a 2.5d game you can only move up/down/left/right, not in and out of the screen. But the enemies are like sculptures not drawings. So it's pretty much the opposite of what has been said in the thread. It's a 2d game with 3D models, which makes the animation and scenery look very different even though the gameplay is 2d. Street fighter 1, 2 and 3 are all straight up 2d games, but Street fighter four and five are 2.5d, you can only move on a 2d plane but the fighters and background look 3d. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490824/#p490824 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games There's quite a bit of misunderstanding in this thread!But first about how to talk to sighted gamers about this stuff. Don't talk about movement. The movement is secondary from and results from the camera angles. That's what these different things are, different camera angles.In first person the camera is located inside the character's head. It's impossible for the camera to face in a different direction to character.In third person the camera is floating ten feet or so behind the head of the character. It is usually possible for the camera to face a different direction to the character, as the character turns to face the direction you're moving them in while the camera doesn't rotate unless you rotate it manually using the right stick."Up down left right" is top-down camera, the camera directly above the character looking down at the top of their head. "2.5d" does not mean being able to move in and out of the screen. It is a purely visual effect. It means a 2d game with 3d visuals.That's a hard thing to explain, but I'll try. In a fully 3D game an enemy is like a sculpture, it's a fully three dimensional object than can be rotated and around and viewed from any angle, it can be affected realistically by how light falls on it. And you're free to move anywhere you want - in an out of the screen as well as up and down. In a 2D game an enemy is like a drawing, it has only one side. And you can only move up/down/left/right, not into and out of the screen.In a 2.5d game you can only move up/down/left/right, not in and out of the screen. But the enemies are like sculptures not drawings. So it's pretty much the opposite of what has been said in the thread. It's a 2d game with 3D models, which makes the animation and scenery look very different. Street fighter 1, 2 and 3 are all straight up 2d games, but Street four and five are 2.5d, your can only move on a 2d plane but the fighters and background look 3d. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490824/#p490824 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : ianhamilton_ via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games There's quite a bit of misunderstanding in this thread!But first about how to talk to sighted gamers about this stuff. Don't talk about movement. The movement is secondary from and results from the camera angles. That's what these different things are, different camera angles.In first person the camera is located inside the character's head. It's impossible for the camera to face in a different direction to character.In third person the camera is floating ten feet or so behind the head of the character. It is usually possible for the camera to face a different direction to the character, as the character turns to face the direction you're moving them in while the camera doesn't rotate unless you rotate it manually using the right stick."Up down left right" is top-down camera, the camera directly above the character looking down at the top of their head. "2.5d" does not mean being able to move in and out of the screen. It is a purely visual effect. It means a 2d game with 3d visuals.That's a hard thing to explain, but I'll try. In a fully 3D game an enemy is like a sculpture, it's a fully three dimensional object than can be rotated and around and viewed from any angle, it can be affected realistically by how light falls on it. And you're free to move anywhere you want - in an out of the screen as well as up and down. In a 2D game an enemy is like a drawing, it has only one side. And you can only move up and down, not into and out of the screen.In a 2.5d game you can only move up and down, not in and out of the screen, but the enemies are like sculptures not drawings. So it's pretty much the opposite of what has been said in the thread. It's a 2d game with 3D models, which makes the animation and scenery look very different. Street fighter 1, 2 and 3 are all straight up 2d games, but Street four and five are 2.5d, your can only move on a 2d plane but the fighters and background look 3d. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490824/#p490824 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games After some reflecting, I have come to the conclusion that we do have some 2.5d and isometric audiogames after all. An example of a 2.5d audiogame is justice league access, since though it is in 2d you can still go into the background. There are other mainstream games like bleach ds and phantom breaker that play like this too.Some examples of isometric audio games are villains from beyond and screaming strike. Both games scroll vertically, but in fact, you are moving forward. In this instance, isometric audio games have a slight advantage over 2d isometric visual games that rely on melee combat, because it's harder for someone to visually judge the distance from that view, whereas you can just listen to how far an enemy is to know when to hit. This is another instance where up on the control stick can be referred to as forward, except the perspective is fixed, meaning that moving the joystick to the side and holding it in that direction makes you travel that way and does not change the forward direction to another cardinal direction. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490754/#p490754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games After some reflecting, I have come to the conclusion that we do have some 2.5d and isometric audiogames after all. An example of a 2.5d audiogame is justice league access, since though it is in 2d you can still go into the background. There are other mainstream games like bleach ds and phantom breaker that play like this too.Some examples of isometric audio games are villains from beyond and screaming strike. Both games scroll vertically, but in fact, you are moving forward. In this instance, isometric audio games have a slight advantage over 2d isometric visual games that rely on melee combat, because it's harder for someone to visually judge the distance from that view, whereas you can just listen to how far an enemy is to know when to hit. This is another instance where up on the control stick can be referred to as forward, except the perspective is fixed, meaning that moving the joystick to the side and holding it in that direction makes you travel that way. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490754/#p490754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games After some reflecting, I have come to the conclusion that we do have some 2.5d and isometric audiogames after all. An example of a 2.5d audiogame is justice league access, since though it is in 2d you can still go into the background. There are other mainstream games like bleach ds and phantom breaker that play like this too.Some examples of isometric audio games are villains from beyond and screaming strike. Both games scroll vertically, but in fact, you are moving forward. In this instance, isometric audio games have a slight advantage over 2d isometric visual games that rely on melee combat, because it's harder for someone to visually judge the distance from that view, whereas you can just listen to how far an enemy is to know when to hit. This is another instance where up on the control stick can be referred to as forward,. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490754/#p490754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games After some reflecting, I have come to the conclusion that we do have some 2.5d and isometric audiogames after all. An example of a 2.5d audiogame is justice league access, since though it is in 2d you can still go into the background. There are other mainstream games like bleach ds and phantom breaker that play like this too.Some examples of isometric audio games are villains from beyond and screaming strike. Both games scroll vertically, but in fact, you are moving forward. In this instance, audio games have a slight advantage over 2d isometric visual games that rely on melee combat, because it's harder for someone to visually judge the distance from that view, whereas you can just listen to how far an enemy is to know when to hit. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490754/#p490754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games After some reflecting, I have come to the conclusion that we do have some 2.5d and isometric audiogames after all. An example of a 2.5d audiogame is justice league access, since though it is in 2d you can still go into the background. There are other mainstream games like bleach ds and phantom breaker that play like this too.Some examples of isometric audio games are villains from beyond and screaming strike. Both games scroll vertically, but in fact, you are moving forward. In this instance, audio games have a slight advantage over 2d isometric games that rely on melee combat, because it's harder for someone to visually judge the distance from that view, whereas you can just listen to how far an enemy is to know when to hit. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490754/#p490754 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Isometric doesn't really even make sense in audio. I guess if you keep the camera at a weird angle, so that things that are directly in front of the player sound like they're ahead and to the right. But there's no advantage, is there? Other than maybe being a compromise version of that view-switching 3rd person thing I mentioned, without needing camera controls? It serves a purpose visually, in that it allows something resembling 3d.Wait, I know. Isometric in audio is using pitch for the third dimention. . URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490738/#p490738 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : KenshiraTheTrinity via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Ok this is interesting.Here are some example of some game examples that might help explain things in terms of gameplay. An example of a purely side-scrolling game is like bk 2 and 3, or the early contra games. In those games, you move left and right, and the directions up and down are used to climb or descend. That is also important to distinguish in control reference.Example of 2.5d games, and I dont think we really have these in audiogames for some weird reason, but some examples would be like streets of rage or final fight. In those games, you generally move left or right and face those directions only. Up and down are used for sidestepping. You also see this in some fighting games like tekken or dead or alive series.Top-down view games as stated above are like manamon, or paladin. This is also commonly referred to as third person perspective. When talking about these games, it's probably easiest to look at your control stick as a compass, where up is north. The gameplay style is similar to isometric view games, which is also not present in terms of audio games. I think we're all pretty clear on the gameplay style of the first person ciew so I wont go too much into it, but I think that this is the only instance where up on the control stick is referred to ad forward. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490731/#p490731 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : CAE_Jones via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Visually, I always found first person horribly confusing and strongly preferred third person. In audio games, I can actually cope with first person just fine, and I'm not aware of any complete attempts at 3rd person in the cinematic sense. I'd argue that top-down and side-scrolling are all subcategories of 3rd person. After all, your character isn't moving sideways in a side-scroller.Technically, the JFIMA is supposed to be 3rd person. Under the hood, there is a camera, which tracks the active player. There's actually a tiny delay between performing an action and hearing the sound, because it originated in Java and a public camera in Java is a no-no, so characters couldn't play their own sounds, and I didn't want to tie them to a sound engine in case I switched to JOAL or something. None of this should be noticeable, though.Some of my older tests and incomplete projects are much more 3rd person, with a fixed camera on small maps. And it is indeed harder to keep track of where objects are relative to the player, using this scheme with audio alone.The main advantage I see to 3rd person in Audio is the ability to switch between styles on the fly. The biggest difficulty in melee combat in Swamp, for me at least, is judging distance precisely enough to do well-timed strikes. This is much easier in a side-scroller or fighting game, although I suppose the difference would be moot if you're equally good at distinguishing stereo position and volume, or better at volume. So you could have the camera in an over-the-shoulder type view, line yourself up with the enemy like an FPS, then rotate the camera 90 degrees without turning the character, and you have yourself a side-view for fighting game or side-scroller fighting.My plan for one of my most ambitious projects, which I was hoping to test in the JFIMA, was to allow a view switch, like in the PS1 Harry Potter games. In those, you could press a button to switch between 1st and 3rd person, since 3rd was generally better for some situations, and 1st for others, especially when fine aiming was involved. (And that game used a lot of high-contrast colorful glowy things, with big sparkles over object to indicate you could use a spell on them, so in this case, my vision could handle the first person). Maybe a better compromise, for audio games, would be a button to switch between first person and side-scrolling?For something like Manamon, but with real-time combat (so Operation Blacksquare), 90 degree camera rotations might still be helpful for the same reasons: you can put the fight in stereo if you need to. It need not be for combat, if this is helpful for finding or avoiding traps, items, etc.Just in case it isn't clear: you would still move right if you press right, and left if you press left. The trouble in mainstream games is that the camera rotates without anything to indicate that it has. It'd be like if you were playing a campaign in Swamp, and someone used the D= command to change what direction you're facing. Without the compass or really good sound design, it'd be needlessly confusing. Which I suppose is an argument for mainstream games to include compasses, or something like that.As for 2.5d ... I'd argue that most audio games that claim to be 3d are 2.5 at most. Swamp is 2.5d, because it gives the illusion of 3d in some areas. I'd argue that Manamon is more 2d, and staircases / ladders between maps aren't enough on their own to give it the extra .5, but it's debatable. I'm not aware of many full 3d audio games. The Spaceship, maybe 3d Velocity (I actually haven't played it ), and the JFIMA (the graphics were top-down when it was in Java, which is kinda troublesome when the 3rd dimention is actually relevant, but I didn't feel like working out how to deal with the fact that walls could get between the player and the camera if I went isometric).Actually, if mainstream 3rd person games made it easy to lock the camera, that'd probably help a ton by itself. I'm sure cutscenes or bossfights would forceably change it and then you'd have to backtrack with everything turned around at some point -_-. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490728/#p490728 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : skluttrell via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games That's interesting. I never heard the term 2.5d before, but @3 that makes sense.When referring to audio games, the terms first-person v. 3rd-person are kind of gray, but, yeah, most of us probably think of games like Manamon as 3rd-person top down games. For games like Swamp (in terms of pure audio gaming) the sounds are presented in a first person sort of way so the differences are pretty arbitrary as far as how you want to imagine it in your head space if you are unable to see the screen. As a video game it could easily be either first or third-person and it would make no difference in terms of audio.But, when talking about video games, when you read reviews and such you'll see terms like first-person, 3rd-person top down, 3rd-person with isometric camera, 3rd-person over the shoulder view, 2d side-scroller, and I'm not sure what games like Mario64 were called because the camera wasn't fixed or over the shoulder. It moved around independent of the character's movement but the player had some control over it unlike isometric (or cinematic cameras).Resident Evil 2 is a good example of an isometric (sometimes called cinematic camera). The camera was always in a location that gave a more movie-like feel to it (not always in a corner or directly over head). These could present odd angles like a dutch tilt or forced perspective angle--whatever the developers felt gave the scene a more artistic look.This would present a blind gamer the most trouble I'd say because you don't always know what the angle of the camera is and it can be that the object of interest (i.g. a monster) is actually in the foreground while the player is moving toward the screen which reverses the directional controls.I think Final Fantasy 7 was also like this if memory serves. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490721/#p490721 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
2020-01-05
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — General Game Discussion : magurp244 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Third person has a few different flavors, some handle just like first person shooters, such as Deadspace where you have an over the shoulder look. Whereas others are more tank like, like Resident Evil 2, where as you say you move a character around a room and depending on the direction their facing backward can move them in different directions. Sometimes they even use fixed camera angles, like alone in the dark. The differences between a locked or fixed cameras are typically found in 3rd person games. In some cases the camera will stay locked to the direction the character is facing, like an FPS, in others it will float around depending on where the character is facing and gradually shift when when turning around. Some cameras stay fixed in place regardless of whatever direction the character maybe moving, so you can see your character attack to the left or right, forward or backward, and change the camera angle to change the view of where your going.2.5D has some different meanings in some circles, sometimes referring to classical portal engines like Wolfenstein3D or Doom because of their quasi 2D/3D nature. Other times it refers to Isometric, which for all intents and purposes is basically a top down view like Zelda, but both rotated and tilted forward at a 45 degree angle. So imagine you have a flat surface with 3 pillars and a person standing near one close to the top edge of the surface, with a standard top down view you can see them all. If you tilt the flat surface forward, the you can see more of the pillars and how tall they are, and they would start to obscure the person who is near the top edge of the surface. Isometric is like that, creating the illusion of height with objects in an otherwise top down view by giving objects on the board height. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490688/#p490688 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games
Re: Discussion about movement in mainstream games Hi.If I'm not mistaken, the movement that manamon, paladin and other games use is called top down because you basically see the room from the top and your character walks in the four or more cardinal directions.Greetings Moritz. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/490687/#p490687 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Discussion about movement in mainstream games
Discussion about movement in mainstream games Hi all.The biggest challenge for me when playing mainstream games is to figure out how the movement works, finding the right way and knowing where I am. Depending on how the movement works, I often find myself lost, having no idea on where I am or where to go.I wanna start a discussion about movement in mainstream games. I wanna talk about the different movement systems I know about, talk about the challenges, pros and cons, ask some questions and hopefully learn more about the different kinds of movements in mainstream games. It might turn into a great discussion, where I might not be the only one who learn something new. Please note: Based on your comments, I might edit the first post, if the topic turns into something useful which can be used for resources in the future. I hope this will turn into a great discussion about the different movement systems in mainstream games and how to deal with them as a blind gamer.List of the different movement modes I know about, and their pros and cons.First person mode:In first person mode, you are seeing everything from the persons eyes. That means you can, and in most games have to, rotate around to interact with objects, go through doors etc.In audiogames, we have the first person mode in Swamp, Shades of Doom, Techno shock just to mention a few. I will use Swamp as an example regarding to pros and cons.In first person mode, you basically move around by the left stick on a controller or by using the keyboard, and turn the camera and the character by using the right stick on the controller or by using a mouse.You walk forward and backward by moving the left stick forward or backwards, and you sidestep left or right by moving the left stick left or right.The biggest challenge, at leased for me, comes when you have to turn the character to interact with objects or go through doors. Imagine playing Swamp without the compass. What will happen if you turn the character, and you don't walk directly north, south, east or west afterwards? Then you will not walk strait, which means you can't interact with objects, go through doors and even worse: You won't know where you are or where to go, because you don't know in which direction you are phasing, and you cannot always just turn towards the audio.So, in my opinion, first person mode is great, if there is some kind of compass, if you can avoid turning the camera at all or if there is a way to line up the camera and character, so you know you are phasing strait in one direction.third person mode.I'm not sure if I understand the third person mode correctly. If not, then I would be glad to learn something new.The third person mode is kind of difficult to explain, because as far as I know, we haven't seen that in audio games yet.Imagine a room, where you can see an overview of the whole room on the screen. When moving the character, you see the character move in the room like if it was an other person, instead of seeing it through the eyes of the person you are controlling.When you turn the character, or if the character automatically is being turned if you run into objects etc., then the challenges really starts to happen:What happens is that the controls changes, based on how the character is turned. Let me give an example:A character is standing in the middle of the room. You have turned the character, so it looks in the south direction. If you then move the left stick forward, the character will walk backwards because it is turned in the opposite direction. Even worse, if the character is turned with either the left or the right side towards the south section of the room, it will walk left or right when you move the stick forward or backwards.This kind of movement have given me a ton of frustration in some games, which could have been playable if it wasn't because of this stupid movement system.Sidescrollers, 2D and 2.5D games.We all know a simple sidescroller, where the movement is just from left to right. Sounds easy? Yes, if the game really is that simple, but that's not always the case.We also know 2D games with platforms both above the character and below the character. Those can be a challenge in mainstream games.2.5D games is something which I don't fully understand how works, which also might be the reason for I have given up on them. Imagine a sidescroller game, where you can move in and out of the screen by moving the stick forward or backwards. It's like a light version of a 3D game, where items, doors and passages can be behind or in front of each other. I don't know how to play games like this as a blind gamer, since with this design, I can easily miss important things, and I'm not sure about if I'm in or out of the screen.Simple movement: Up, down, left and right.I'm not sure on what this simple movement is called, but we have that in Manamon, the old Metal Gear Solid games and lots of other games as well. This is a simple movement where you can only move
