Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Good question, there's a NASA based Electroactive Polymer site [here] last updated in 2015 featuring various links but a lot of them are dead. The latest I've found dates around 2012 from the [North Caroline State University], but there's not much else after that. I know that the fishing line Actuators suffered from thermal stress problems limiting their applications, maybe the Polymers had too short a shelf life? Whatever the reason interest seems to have vanished. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=318597#p318597 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? I wonder why artificial muscles for tactile displays never took off. Apparently, the mastermind behind this one was publishing papers on it as far back as 2004, at least, and the article from NASA was released in 2009. I think I'm just going to have to contact all of these people and ask, and turn that into an article so we can have a reference. (Today I learned: braille screen input on iOS thinks ablind is a word. Conblind? Deblind? Tumblind? ... yeah, it thinks bl is a suffix.) URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=318594#p318594 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? I remember that they said one of the ways the price is kept low is that they're using off-the-shelf parts. I don't know what that means in this case. although I'm feeling positively disposed toward 3d printing all of a sudden. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317759#p317759 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? I wonder what technology is used in the orbit20? I am beta testing a production unit right now and it works very good and the braille quality is excellent. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317754#p317754 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Nls here in the US has a braille book program, but I personally don't use it, and prefer the digital book cartridges. Although they're trying to get braille displays to users over here. That would've been a gag if thought up years ago, but now with the orbit reader 20 on the horizon, that seems like a realistic goal. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317679#p317679 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Hi.I don't know how it is in the US or where ever you are from, but I am talking about the situations with braille books here.The thing is that I haven't used braille in the last two years or so because i did everything with a screen reader and I had no use in using braille for any reason.The thing is that the amound of books in braille over here in germany is rather limited, most things you will find are science books or catalogues Sure, there are books you read for entertainment, but the books that I want to read are just not there and it would be a costly atempt of converting all my eBooks into braille. Another things is that those books are bulcky and are not a pleasure to carry around, so I stick to the iPhone and the kindle app, everything on one device and accessible at your finger tips.greetings Moritz. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317674#p317674 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? I honestly think I'd have a lot more of a motivation to practice braille if it was easily accessible/afordible to me. I use braille screen input like, a lot, on my iPhone, and its much faster than typing. But I often find myself struggling on different letters and combinations, etc, because I just don't have a way to practice braille on my own terms. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317666#p317666 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Regarding 3 state pins, they're already doing that in the Graphiti tactile graphics display that should be just around the corner, and if they're using the same pin technology that's being used in the orbit reader then the Graphiti will probably be cheaper than anyone imagined. Certainly not 500 bucks, but definitely not in the 5digits either. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317643#p317643 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? The whole electrovibration 2d+textures thing had me wondering. Last I heard, the smallest Tixels™ are about 1in^^2, but can apparently do arbitrary shapes. So if we focus on an intersection of 4tx, we need each tixel to convey at least 4bits of information. So 8 textures and 2 shapes, or whatever combination is practical. More shapes would be better, but I'm not sure it could handle enough single-tixel shapes.More realistically? The requirements are that we can shove 8bits of tactile information into something around 2cm^2. Would it be more possible to have an array of 1cm windows that can open or close, and maybe have a bigger pin-type thing or 2 under it? that's not much, though. If you could have more than just up/down as states? Down, partially up, entirely up? If we can fit 4 3-state dots into the space normally reserved for 6-8 2-state dots, we can have 81 combinations. 6-dot braille supports only 64 combinations. So there's that. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317634#p317634 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Hi.The school for the blind in Zeist were I took part in ICC 2014 had an interesting go at accessibility and navigation. They used iBeakons and stuck them to the doors of the rooms so we always knew where we were. The cool thing is that they can be updated with new information, so if workshops were in a different room, if there was a announcement or a trivia game for a free drink in the caffee in the evening, the info was uploadedto a certain beakon where most people were.The thing is with braille that you can't completely remove it from modern life, you still need your braille displays, they are really coming in handy when doing mathematical equasions or programing tasks because if you have a bug in the code, you can easily jump to the line and check with the braille display and not go through the whole thing only by speach.The method with replacing the braille dots sounds interesting, but how do yu guys imagine how this will be done, i mean what method wou ld you use to depict letters on the display?And also, would it be worth it to put expensive research into that because as you said, the market is frankly quite small and the revenue for the developers is minimal, so I am not sure if trying to find a new method of braille will work out in the end.Greetings moritz. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317620#p317620 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Yeah, might wanna get an external charger that isn't bulky, or a charging case, or a q i wireless charging pad, lol. As far as I know, it's not bluetooth, it's nfc. I don't think they'd be able to have Bluetooth do that unless they got rid of authentication and set up autoconnect. Nfc is like technically advanced motion sensors, maybe compare it to infra-red but newer and without the beam? I'm honestly not sure how much battery power he nfc chip uses. And I'd say just like any gps app, the app would most definitely run in background. For Android, that's easy, all they need to use is the tts api directly instead of talkback, just like Nearby Explorer does. As for Ios, they did open the speech api for that as well, so doing that should work just fine, gps apps have already done it. With that in mind, all you'd need is a loud portable speaker or a set of aftershokz. Also, I don't know how much braille signs cost for each installation. The lighthouse told me it was 400 bucks for an installation of programmable beacons. Even if the braille signs are a cheaper starting cost, you have to replace the whole damn sign if something goes wrong or there's a room gets replaced. For the beacons, all you'd need to do is reprogram the message, and, if needed, reinstall the same beacon. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317550#p317550 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? The technology blitab is supposedly using is some sort of membrane.It's so secretive they're not telling anyone what it is lol.I'm picturing something like bubble rap only in electronic form, if that's even possible.Some sort of liquid that can shape itself into braille dots.And it's suppose to be around $500.If it ever gets released. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317505#p317505 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Patents I think are part of the problem, coupled with a lack of investment and a small market. Some tech might hit the market or get weak sales projections, then drop out when they don't see a return. Blitabs been selling a lot of hype to investors at conventions for awhile, although I doubt it will get far as a product especially with the APH [Graphiti] around the corner.The [Braigo Printer] seems promising though, he made his first lego version [open source] so for around $350 you can build your own mini-braille printer right now. Don't really understand why his second commercial version has to have IoT wifi to the cloud and social media crap though, would think it would be better to make a basic printer and build addon packages off that, oh well.Historically there's also [this] mechanical multi-row display from 2009 build off the concept of a music box, and more recently mechanical braille cells [here]. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317503#p317503 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Kyle, you say that as if most people don't do that already lolEither way, I don't think you would need it in the hand anyways; it might be able to run as a sort of background application. Although it might be somewhat expensive for battery since it would likely use bluetooth or something.jack - that sounds really cool honestly. I had a similar idea like 9 months ago but I realized, wait. I don't know how to hardware. lol URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317490#p317490 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Yep, lets all walk around with our $600 + phones in our hands. That's a good idea.Seriously though, membranes might be a way to go. Okay so we have to replace signs, but...I'm just imagining walking around with my iPhone in my hand. We're already prime targets for muggings/street violents/etc. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317461#p317461 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Lol! Rachel, you've actually got something there with the programmable chips. That actually is where nfc, the same technology used for tap-and-pay terminals, has great potential. They would have to make the communication field farther out, but if that could happen, nfc chips could most certainly be used. I know standard nfc chips are really cheap, and definitely cheap when bought in large quantities. What you reminded me of was the aware app, which received information from beacons. The beacons probably use the same nfc protocol, but are far-field enough that a person could walk past and hear the message. It was beta tested at the Chicago Lighthouse which is how I heard of it, and I did ask and it apparently costs 400 bucks for a building to install a set of beacons, but that may change once they've been around long enough. With that in mind, since the app relies on the installation of beacons, the aware app itself is completely free for end users. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317452#p317452 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? I don't think this has much to do with capitalism/welfare so much as it has to do with the design issues related to braille. Braille innovations fail because it's expensive to produce the technology and its hard to teach new people new braille. I used to be kind of immature on this subject but at this point I really do think that a lot of it is technological limitations.I kind of agree with Aprone's opinion on making a new braille modern language but perhaps it should be still be based in current braille. For example, if it was more spaced out, this might reduce costs substantially. Also, perhaps if instead of being represented in pins, it's represented in elevation of a membrane substance. This would be also cheaper than producing braille dots and could still be recognized if spacing was sufficient. However, both solutions would require all braille to be replaced in the process.I think that TTS might be a better means actually than braille in man y situations, such as signs; Braille signs are expensive to replace. If there was a chip that could have its name updated, a person with a phone or other handheld device could read them through a specialized accessibility app. This also has the advantage of being far less conspicuous than a blind person reading braille.Poor louis couldn't predict this. lol URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317446#p317446 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? I don't think this has much to do with capitalism/welfare so much as it has to do with the design issues related to braille. Braille innovations fail because it's expensive to produce the technology and its hard to teach new people new braille. I used to be kind of immature on this subject but at this point I really do think that a lot of it is technological limitations.I kind of agree with Aprone's opinion on making a new braille modern language but perhaps it should be still be based in current braille. For example, if it was more spaced out, this might reduce costs substantially. Also, perhaps if instead of being represented in pins, it's represented in elevation of a membrane substance. This would be also cheaper than producing braille dots and could still be recognized if spacing was sufficient. However, both solutions would require all braille to be replaced in the process.I think that TTS might be a better means actually than braille in man y situations, such as signs; Braille signs are expensive to replace. If there was a chip that could have its name updated, a person with a phone or other handheld device could read them through a specialized accessibility app.Poor louis couldn't predict this. lol URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317446#p317446 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? @aprone, not a bad idea. Make a design specification that doesn't complicate things, makes machines easy to produce, and more importantly, cheep.I am of course being sarcastic. That would be entirely ineffective and I'd almost say impossible, accept some smart alec will come up here and prove me wrong. I actually do want to see this, I just don't think its doable with the technology we have. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317444#p317444 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Mechanically braille is pretty hard to produce because of the 3 (or 4) rows of dots in each column. You can cram machinery above and below to handle the top and bottom dots, but reaching the 1 (or 2) inner dots becomes a mess.I remember a few times just asking, can we just invent a new braille-like language that is designed to be easier for machines to display it? The few people I floated that idea past all said no. LOL! URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317439#p317439 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? Blitab is on the list .I knew that braille displays are outlandishly priced compared to what you get, but I hadn't actually looked up prices on braille books until 5 minutes ago. An astronomy book for 3rd graders is going for $500-1000. Its sequel is on Amazon for over $9000. It... has illustrations? I've read one of these, and it is very well done, and no way in Ursa Minor would I pay quadroople digits for it. Never have I been so glad for the existence of NLS. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317411#p317411 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? You can add Blitab to that list.While I'm sure they're talking big at the moment, that's all it appears to be, nothing but talk. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317396#p317396 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Re: Why do Braille innovations always fail? you can add URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317396#p317396 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Why do Braille innovations always fail?
Why do Braille innovations always fail? Well, doesn't this sound neat and useful: light-driven plastic motor. I wonder if they could make a braille display with it--wait, published in 2008? And I only just heard of it?But, hey, maybe someone is working on a braille display using cheap polymer-based actuation? Pocket Braille sounds neat--wait, 2005? Bu... wha huh?Something more recent? Umm, Did this actually happen in Thailand, or is it just the same as the rest?Gah! Can't we just shrink a pneumatic action pipe organ and put rubber on the pipes? ... I guess we'll find out by the end of July, but... can we do it, you know, without being lin ked to the flippin' cloud?OK, maybe we're doomed to use calculator-length displays forever. Can a halfway cheap one hit the market at some point, at least?No? Nothing?I mean, sure, this is materials science and chemistry and engineering and microfluidics and so on. It's complicated. And it's a small market with expensive research.But you mean to tell me that nothing has come of any endeavors, what-so-ever, for the past 30 years?You know, no one ever posts articles on why these quietly disappear, or why release dates get pushed back for whole years until companies catch on and stop announcing them, or if they run out of funding or can't get materials / people / manufacturing facilities...So, yeah, what's going on?Is every one of these that complicated? That expensive? Is the clash of capitalism and wellfare making the market so bad that there is no point of entry?Surely these must have something in common, something more specific than "braille innovations never work", something actionable...Anything?Maybe, the missing ingredient is a generous princess. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=317389#p317389 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
