Omega
--
Ejorne
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___
Enough with this.
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omega;251502 Wrote:
Hi!
The 21 of january -08
we gonna meet Hammers friend at the Royal Institute of Technology to
see if we can track this thing down.
regards
/mats :-)
Well... this topic still is in the air it seems.
I thought id died a while ago.
I will put 21 januari (or
Hi!
The 21 of january -08
we gonna meet Hammers friend at the Royal Institute of Technology to
see if we can track this thing down.
regards
/mats :-)
--
omega
omega's Profile:
P Floding;225772 Wrote:
Your best course of action is, obviously, to tell the customer off for
being an idiot, and that you have better things to do than listening to
BS like that. That's part one of course 101 in Customer Relations.
This is at least the second time you've declared in a huff
Robin Bowes;225780 Wrote:
P Floding wrote:
seanadams;225730 Wrote:
Yes. I have presented a plausible explanation which is supported by
100%
of the evidence at hand, and I have explained why it is so. I have
also
explained why other mysterious phenomena, such as jitter, would
not
opaqueice;225827 Wrote:
This is at least the second time you've declared in a huff you were
leaving the forum permanently and then come back a little later. I
see the time off hasn't improved your personality.
Is it?
Nice to see you too!
And you haven't changed a bit.
--
P Floding
P Floding;225807 Wrote:
Mr. Bowes,
He already has.
No, he hasn't.
Although you certainly deserve it.
--
tomjtx
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P Floding wrote:
seanadams;225730 Wrote:
Yes. I have presented a plausible explanation which is supported by 100%
of the evidence at hand, and I have explained why it is so. I have also
explained why other mysterious phenomena, such as jitter, would not
cause the reported symptoms.
Do I
seanadams;225730 Wrote:
Yes. I have presented a plausible explanation which is supported by 100%
of the evidence at hand, and I have explained why it is so. I have also
explained why other mysterious phenomena, such as jitter, would not
cause the reported symptoms.
Do I think I'm right?
One question P Floding besides this smalltalk here atm.
You, your Tact and your SB3 seem to have gone thru lots of evolution
regarding your many improving reports all the time...
Do you hear the defect that is described in this thread?
--
Wombat
Transporter - monoblocks - self-made speakers
Like 'truckfighters' and 'SoftWireEngineer', I too once recently had a
problem with my SB3 that was fixed by unplugging/replugging the power
source.
When turning on the stereo system, a low-level but mid-to-high tone
whining sound was coming through the speakers. I didn't know at first
what
I'm not sure why Logitech seem to base all responses on the assumption
that their product is flawless? I have never heard of a body of code
that is bug-free. Also, end-users can't be expected to roll out a
full-fledged digital and EE test environment. Not even if they are
positive they can hear a
seanadams;225665 Wrote:
I don't. I base them on extensive knowledge of digital audio, how the
product is designed, what has been tested already, what kinds of
phenomena people often hear or think they are hearing, and what are the
most plausible explanations for them. I employ the scientific
The DT-Passthrough ability pretty well removes oddities like that from
the digital outputs. If there was such a problem, encoded material
would sound not just subtly off, but like noise.
(The SB and Transporter are both dumb: they just decode flac and put it
on the output... they don't bother
snarlydwarf;225685 Wrote:
The DT-Passthrough ability pretty well removes oddities like that from
the digital outputs. If there was such a problem, encoded material
would sound not just subtly off, but like noise.
(The SB and Transporter are both dumb: they just decode flac and put it
on
P Floding;225689 Wrote:
You can never dismiss reported bugs/problems on the basis that others
would have seen this or that. Bugs are sometimes triggered by
circumstances that may be particular to just a few users.
Bugs that are not reproducible are impossible to diagnose. This is
true of
snarlydwarf;225692 Wrote:
Can you provide a test case where this can be seen/heard/diagnosed is
essential to fixing bugs... It is hardly a sin to ask for a
demonstration.
If a bug can not be reproduced or demonstrated, then how on earth is it
to be fixed?
This actually warrants a
snarlydwarf;225718 Wrote:
I did no such thing. I said it was perfectly valid to ask for
information in order to reproduce the report.
Well you seemed very impressed by it. As I said, it was irrelevant to
the discussion.
And in the case in question, the dependencies consist of
snarlydwarf;225707 Wrote:
It does? Why?
Wow, Windows innovated '
reportbug' (http://packages.debian.org/etch/reportbug)! Debian has
done that since at least 1999. BFD.
I don't see any relevance to the rest of the post either: wtf does have
the right DLL's on your Windows box
seanadams;225708 Wrote:
You're confusing the issue by conflating not reproducible with caused
by placebo effect. I don't think that the placebo effect would be
likely to convince you that your brakes are failing even though they're
working correctly.
So you have indeed already decided what
P Floding;225697 Wrote:
My swedish made car from some years ago, who's brand shall remain
name-less, but starts with an S, had a scary brake problem that only
I experienced, and I was unable to reproduce at will.
You're confusing the issue by conflating not reproducible with
caused by
snarlydwarf;225692 Wrote:
Bugs that are not reproducible are impossible to diagnose. This is true
of computers as well as cars. My car makes a funny noise, but stops
when I take it to the shop problems go back 100 years.
It is actually more true of computers than cars: the nature of
P Floding;225711 Wrote:
So you have indeed already decided what is the issue here?
Yes. I have presented a plausible explanation which is supported by
100% of the evidence at hand, and I have explained why it is so. I have
also explained why other mysterious phenomena, such as jitter, would
P Floding;225715 Wrote:
You implied that it was the end user's responsibilty to hand info on a
plate to the manufacturer in order to be able to reproduce bugs.
I did no such thing. I said it was perfectly valid to ask for
information in order to reproduce the report.
I can't remember
P Floding;225699 Wrote:
This actually warrants a separate reply!
It does? Why?
I don't know if you have noticed, but today Windows gathers local
information about the problem on the actual computer where the problem
occurs.
Wow, Windows innovated '
reportbug'
Hi Again!
Both me and Hammer are back from Holiday.
We are waiting to get some help from Hammers friend at the Royal
Institute of Technology.
He is a researcher and has very limited time.
Things may take a while, But please be patient. We realy like to track
this thing down.
I have tried
They're BCK
I am so excited to see that this important issue will be resolved :-)
--
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topic-kick:
omega;218198 Wrote:
Anyway both me and hammer are soon leaving sweden for a couple of weeks
during vacation.
So all this measuring and testing is put on hold for a while.
Back from vacation meanwhile? I am curious about the continuation of
your findings/testings...
--
Phil Leigh;224202 Wrote:
They went to Greece...
That explains a lot... considering how inflamatory their remarks were
over here...
--
servies
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View
schatzy;218599 Wrote:
If Omega thinks there is a difference between the first track played
and the second played and that it makes a difference turning if off and
then back on that is his opinion and no one should or has the right to
tell him he is wrong. That is how his ears hear it. Maybe
ermine,
Now you made me feel ashame to be Swedish. ;)
--
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johann;219110 Wrote:
ermine,
Now you made me feel ashame to be Swedish. ;)
What, is Sven-Goran Eriksson not enough? ;-)
--
Patrick Dixon
www.at-tunes.co.uk
Patrick Dixon's Profile:
Patrick Dixon;219112 Wrote:
What, is Sven-Goran Eriksson not enough? ;-)
Think about this for a while: Which country was he coaching that was
not forced to chose him. ;)
--
johann
johann's Profile:
johann;219110 Wrote:
ermine,
Now you made me feel ashame to be Swedish. ;)
I don't know, you have beautiful girls and some decent mobile phones by
S E- you guys don't have such a hard time. I didn't like the prices in
your bars though :)
Seriously, though, there is a precedent for the
ermine;219122 Wrote:
I don't know, you have beautiful girls and some decent mobile phones by
S E- you guys don't have such a hard time.
Not really, except fot this:
ermine;219122 Wrote:
I didn't like the prices in your bars though :)
ermine;219122 Wrote:
Seriously, though, there is a
johann;219118 Wrote:
Think about this for a while: Which country was he coaching that was not
forced to chose him. ;)
Yes you're quite right. It makes me ashamed to be English that we have
an FA that would choose S-G E as the coach of our national team ;-)
Still it could have been worse,
Patrick Dixon;219162 Wrote:
Yes you're quite right. It makes me ashamed to be English that we have
an FA that would choose S-G E as the coach of our national team ;-)
Still it could have been worse, they could have chosen Steve McLaren
... oh hang on ...
And look at the consequenses...
In the late 80´s One Hifi magazine here in sweden did a listening test
on Digtal transports (CD players) to a External DAC.
The CD players sounded much difference from each other,
They fought this difference was because of the transports reading
capabilities, more stable CD mechanism etc.
Then
You are of course right, if Mats perceives a difference, he does infact
perceive a difference.
But the title of the thread is Design miss in SB3 digital output?, so
there is a claim that others should also be able to hear the difference,
and that it might even be a result of some technical
Let me start by saying that I am new to the forums here. I have found
lots of very helpful people post to these forums in all categories, and
have made my purchase of two SB3 much more pleasant and easy to deal
with. And thanks to all of you.
There is one thing that disturbs me though, and that
schatzy - that's a very good post and yes, it all comes down to personal
preferences.
But what should be filtered out is the placebo effect. I'm starting to
notice that no one on this forum will admit to being affected by the
placebo effect. This can't be possible, that's how our brains
schatzy;218599 Wrote:
We should all rethink sometimes before we speak or type. If Omega
thinks there is a difference between the first track played and the
second played and that it makes a difference turning if off and then
back on that is his opinion and no one should or has the right to
hi there,
just found this thread, read almost the 10 first pages and came to the
2 last - the issue still not solved.
a whole wile ago I was posting a similar issue I had with the SB3.
that was exactly the same thing omega is hearing. the sound is changing
and is not high-end anymore. it
truckfighters;218686 Wrote:
hi there,
...
a whole wile ago I was posting a similar issue I had with the SB3.
that was exactly the same thing omega is hearing. the sound is changing
and is not high-end anymore. it sounds like digitally distorted.
I don't know when and whay it
Hi truckfighters
Quote:
I could believe it has something to that we phase, neutral and ground
here in germany (may be in sweden also)?
we can plug our devices like we want into the wall sockets. and I also
claim that there are sonical diffences by replugging mains 180° of
transporter and my
Hello again,
I am not one to normal name names but in this case Opaqueice, it is
attitudes like yours that prompted me to write in the first
place.
Omega could have 100 or even 1000 or more people listen to his system
and have the same experience that he has had. Then I or anyone else on
this
schatzy;218746 Wrote:
Hello again,
I am not one to normal name names but in this case Opaqueice, it is
attitudes like yours that prompted me to write in the first
place.
Omega could have 100 or even 1000 or more people listen to his system
and have the same experience that he has had.
brjann;217713 Wrote:
To test if Mats experience is a result of selective processing or not,
no fancy testing equipment is required. As has been pointed out, he
simply has to prove in a blind test that he can more often than chance
will accurately say what method of pausing was used.
Good
Yes, I guess that telling if this method differs from the previous one
or not is better. We're really getting into depth of signal detection
here, I guess you should even have a calibration run...
--
brjann
brjann's
Patrick Dixon;218286 Wrote:
Good post.
However, I think that identifying the source/method is an unnecessary
and overcomplicated step. You simply need to repeatedly be able to
detect a difference when there is one, and no difference when there
isn't.
Identifying which is which is not
Hi !
I have just bought a Behringer SRC 2496
http://www.behringer.com/SRC2496/index.cfm?lang=eng
I plan to connect this like this:
SB3 Optical out Sp/dif 16/44 - SRC2496 use internal clock not SP/dif
AES/EBU 44/16 - DAC (Musical fidelity X-Dac v3)
I post my listening tests later.
-Bosco
The idea was that if Omega could hear the same differences with these
AC3/DTS tracks then we would have proven that the differences came from
the power of suggestion.
--
bosco
bosco's Profile:
Hi all!
First of all I think this a wonderfully interesting thread, and hope I
will not be deleted. Reading it I've thought about a few things that
I'd like to comment, excuse the length, but here are my 10 cents...
Here is an interesting link:
bosco;217515 Wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread, but there is a really easy way to test
the digital outputs.
Do you have a receiver that can decode Dolby Digital (AC3) or DTS?
Go here:
http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/mall/artikel.asp?ProgramID=2446Artikel=740607
and download/unzip a DTS
I haven't read the whole thread, but there is a really easy way to test
the digital outputs.
Do you have a receiver that can decode Dolby Digital (AC3) or DTS?
Go here:
http://www.sr.se/cgi-bin/mall/artikel.asp?ProgramID=2446Artikel=740607
and download/unzip a DTS or AC3 file. Play it on your
-opaqueice
Hi!
I have installed Audacity audiodiffmaker today and started some
testing.
My Laptop only have a Mono-Mic in, so a tested on my Slimserver PC
I wanted to learn Test Audacity and audiodiffmaker before i began
testing on the SB3 DAC.
I connected my NAD CD player to the line in
omega;215919 Wrote:
-opaqueice
Hi!
I have installed Audacity audiodiffmaker today and started some
testing.
My Laptop only have a Mono-Mic in, so a tested on my Slimserver PC
I wanted to learn Test Audacity and audiodiffmaker before i began
testing on the SB3 DAC.
I
ezkcdude;215922 Wrote:
Omega (Mats), I would not start with music. Instead, I suggest using a
standard 1 kHz wav file (either from the CD player or Squeezebox).
Using this fixed frequency, you may be able to hear some pattern
(harmonics, etc) in the diff file. With music, I'm afraid the
omega;215919 Wrote:
But i always get a audible difference wave (A-B) how matter i do.
Hmmm... I tried this with three different recording techniques - into
my laptop's line-in, into my windows desktop's line-in, and using a
Tascam USB microphone interface I have. None of those recordings
-opaqueice
Hi Again!
Quote:
You might try the laptop - even if it's mono you can just record one
channel.
Not good i have only mic in the signal gets distroted how matter i
set signal level.
Quote:
Also just as a test, try taking the difference of two identical files
(like two copies of the
wow...reading through this thread makes me glad I'm not an audiophile
!
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clickhand
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-seanadams
Thanks for the tip Web Link.
I will talk to Hammer he also have a laptop and Desktop
We can try his computers and see how things sounds.
Best Regards!
/Mats :-)
--
omega
omega's Profile:
omega;215934 Wrote:
I Think there's something wrong with the recording process, I end up
with the same using SB3 Or CD player.
Unfortunately if the laptop _only_ accepts MIC in, and there is no
option to change it to line in, then you are going to get extremely bad
distortion from
To Omega co
First I most tell all, I do not have a SB3 so I not able to hear how it
sounds and I not able to verify your clam.
But as I see/read it, you and your friend have both a heavy modified
SB3. This it self could be a problem as you not able to conclude that
is the SB3 that has the
-JimC
Quote:
You've _modified_ a Squeezebox such that you claim to hear a
difference, and then call it a design miss but go on to state that an
unmodified SB3 would probably not exhibit the problem.
The only Modifications that i have to my Squeezebox is:
1. A Custom Linear powersupply.
omega;215605 Wrote:
Anyone reading this thread and having the know-how and proper tools,
and the time, please help us.
For the tenth time, it's really really easy! I'm almost positive your
soundcard has a line-in, and if it doesn't, borrow any laptop from some
time in the last decade and
opaqueice;215614 Wrote:
For the tenth time, it's really really easy! I'm almost positive your
soundcard has a line-in, and if it doesn't, borrow any laptop from some
time in the last decade and use that. Then all you need is a cable that
takes 2 RCA plugs into a coaxial, like this:
This test takes two analogue audio signals and subtracts them. The
resulting file is an upper bound on any difference - in other words any
real difference between the two files will be smaller than the result.
You can then listen to the differences without anything masking them.
You can turn
Dear Omega co
I posted my dissatifaction with the way seanadams and JimC are
responding you on this thread. I still stand behind that, paying
customers (even annoying one) deserve better attitude.
But I must tell mr. Omega and co., you are truely annoying. with the
time you spent doing silly
ganjastone;215665 Wrote:
PS - To SlimDevices forum manager, can't you move this thread from
Audiophiles forum to bugg forum?
Bugs require reproducible cases.
I think this thread lies exactly where it belongs.
--
EFP
EFP;215676 Wrote:
Bugs require reproducible cases.
I think this thread lies exactly where it belongs.
Well said.
...and before anyone else chimes in, I'm with Mr. Opaqueice on this
one. If audiodiffmaker shows no real difference then there is no real
difference. Period.
--
Phil Leigh
I've been following this thread. Some ideas. Omega, could you try using
the web interface to start/pause/stop your SB3 instead of the remote?
Purhaps there is an IR code anomaly with your other equipment. In the
same vein, if you have any fluorescent lights in your listening room,
turn them off.
Phil Leigh;215686 Wrote:
Well said.
...and before anyone else chimes in, I'm with Mr. Opaqueice on this
one. If audiodiffmaker shows no real difference then there is no real
difference. Period.
I hate agreeing with Opaqueice. Ok then I won't :)
Sorry but I have not seen anything that
It's been 22 pages of a thread.
Omega is not going to provide here any useful info, except for bad
google marketing for SlimDevices and a bit of a rude reputation to some
SlimDevices personel.
If Omega had something solid in hand, he would already publish it.
SlimDevices, or anyone else on the
adamslim;215696 Wrote:
I hate agreeing with Opaqueice. Ok then I won't :)
Sorry but I have not seen anything that proves that audiodiffmaker (or
any similar measurement-differencer system) is better than the human
ear.
Geeez I'm going to tell you something that must be very unpleasant
servies;215708 Wrote:
Geeez I'm going to tell you something that must be very unpleasant
to a 'true' audiophile: Your ears are crap and with crap I mean really
crap. I mean as crap as crap can be and if your ears aren't that crappy
than it's the grey matter between them that's colouring
NOW, this thread is getting interesting :-)
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servies;215708 Wrote:
Yada yada... :)
Did I already mention your hearing is crappy?
I agree, and am quite sure that you are right. However, my ears are
what I listen to music with, so that is how I evaluate products related
to listening to music. This seems reasonable to me.
I often get to
Hi!
-JIMC
Quote:
I tried it, too. The results aren't really relevant, since I didn't
run the tests blind or double-blind. Let's just say I heard *exactly*
what I expected I would hear.
Did you hear the effect ?
- JIMC SEANADAMS
Quote:
You will see that I did in fact suggest some very
Omega,
Can I ask, what external DAC do you have? What about your friends?
R.
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-Robin Bowes
My system:
SB3 (Latest firmware and Slimserver) I am Only playing .Flac files done
with EAC /Plextor
Digital Out from SB3 - Musical Fidelity X-Dac v3 - Musical Fidelity
X-10 V3 Tube Buffer - Cambridge AZUR 840A Amp.
Speakers: Chario Hyper 2000 Tower Reference + Elac CL 4Pi Plus (A
omega wrote:
-Robin Bowes
My system:
SB3 (Latest firmware and Slimserver) I am Only playing .Flac files done
with EAC /Plextor
Digital Out from SB3 - Musical Fidelity X-Dac v3 - Musical Fidelity
X-10 V3 Tube Buffer - Cambridge AZUR 840A Amp.
Speakers: Chario Hyper 2000 Tower Reference
omega;215390 Wrote:
Hi!
My and hammers soundcards dont have a Digital in.. Maybe planning
baying one.
Then we try programs like Audio DiffMaker etc.
You don't need a digital in. While it would be good to verify that the
digital stream out of the SB is the same in both cases, that's not
Robin Bowes;215411 Wrote:
omega wrote:
-Robin Bowes
My system:
SB3 (Latest firmware and Slimserver) I am Only playing .Flac files
done
with EAC /Plextor
Digital Out from SB3 - Musical Fidelity X-Dac v3 - Musical
Fidelity
X-10 V3 Tube Buffer - Cambridge AZUR 840A Amp.
You're still arguing? This must be some sort of april joke run by the
slimdevice community manager to amuse us? Please, tell me it's just not
reality ;).
Robin
--
vrobin
vrobin's Profile:
omega;215390 Wrote:
Hi!
-JIMC
Quote:
I tried it, too. The results aren't really relevant, since I didn't
run the tests blind or double-blind. Let's just say I heard *exactly*
what I expected I would hear.
Did you hear the effect ?
I didn't hear a difference, but I didn't expect to,
Quote:
So if I'm understanding you, the two measurements you have taken have
shown no difference in the signal, correct?
Yes, the two measurements have shown no differance
The pinknoise test showed a small differance but this is propably due
to the pinknoise and average time?
And it´s hard to
omega;215510 Wrote:
Quote:
Will you at least consider the _possibility_ that there's no problem
with the output stage and that the effect you are hearing is
perceptual?
Yes and No...
Yes, there could be a problem with the slimserversoftware or
compatibility with our DACS or
Wow, really dont know how to say it but.. yes i also live in Sweden,
and yes I also work in the same
company as omega and hammer65, but no I am not one of them.
For the moment im just surprised about some comments that seanadams
(Founder, Slim Devices Logitech Streaming Media Systems)
and JimC
KalleAnka wrote:
snip one-sided view of how this thread developed
Kalle,
I will ignore most of what you've written as it is, quite frankly,
laughable and content such as yours is why this thread was deleted in
the first place.
However, I've said more than once, if you or omega or hammer65 can
Kalle Anka,
Do you expect anyone registering as Donald Duck to taken seriously?
Mvh,
/Johan
PS It's wine, not whine.
--
johann
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I think the point is the attitude shown by Slim Devices and Logitech
staff. Someone posts saying they reckon XYZ sounds better or worse,
the people in power can respond in one of these ways:
- Oh that's interesting. The areas that affect this have not been
changed at all by the factor that you
KalleAnka wrote:
Hmm, perhaps seanadams was on drugs when he made the SB3 and I really
don’t want that my money
shall go into a drug addicts pocket!!! AND YOU CAN TAKE THAT TO THE
BANK!!
It was a joke. Do they not have jokes in Sweden? (I doubt it, the Sweds
I know are very open and
KalleAnka;215168 Wrote:
Just wondering a little. If the test result is going to show that there
is some small changes in SB3 sound
are you going to accept this or are you going to complain about that
the test result was fixed. ;)
Every one know that test results can be fixed so...
delete it ...why, that smacks of censorship
is it going somewhere you don't want it too?
--
zanash
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View this thread:
KalleAnka;215168 Wrote:
Wow, really dont know how to say it but.. yes i also live in Sweden,
and yes I also work in the same
company as omega and hammer65, but no I am not one of them.
Yeah right... Same writing style... same spelling errors...
KalleAnka;215168 Wrote:
Serious, I have
I would vote to lock this thread as well, but not delete: it is way too
funny :-)
--
tomjtx
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View this thread:
adamslim;215179 Wrote:
I think the point is the attitude shown by Slim Devices and Logitech
staff. Someone posts saying they reckon XYZ sounds better or worse,
the people in power can respond in one of these ways:
- Oh that's interesting. The areas that affect this have not been
changed
seanadams;215234 Wrote:
You are absolutely right, but you're taking my comments quite out of
context. The original post was not a mere inquiry or observation. It
was a (very successful) troll. From the beginning
Omega/Hammer65/KalleAnka has/have asserted that there is a bug, a
design miss,
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