RE: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
Yes some people in the BBC are trying to do things differently. The Now Show is available as a full length podcast download for example - completely rights free. In Our Time has a huge archive of programmes without time restrictions. And who can forget the fun when Radio 3 allowed the downloading of whole Beethoven Experiences. Who can forget http://www.bbc.co.uk/virtualrevolution/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/virtualrevolution/ ? BBC Introducing on 6music is available as a podcast with... full length music tracks! Now I know what you're thinking, you're thining Andrew... they're different situations. That's not iPlayer Andrew. That's just some podcasts. Some MP3s. Some video clips. That's just a small amount of your large, mostly excellent output. Although Andrew, I don't really like To Buy or Not to Buy and can you do something about EastEnders? To which I'd say. Yes, sir or madam. It is. But the BBC, rights holders, independent production companies... it's like a big giant oil tanker. And of course a big giant oil tanker takes a long time to turn round. How do you say to an independent production company that wants to sell its programmes post BBC broadcast for cash (kerching!) that allowing less restrictions won't harm their business? Well sir - or madam - we find real examples and start gathering the evidence... From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Richard P Edwards Sent: 30 September 2010 20:31 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content Yes.. but this list was around before GeoIP, and before the Rights holders had a clue about the internet. Equally, the Trust now. I saw exactly the same things happening with music. Now, twenty years later, some of the music Rights holders have got the plot. What I would like to know is whether anyone inside the BBC is actually educating the similar owners of the content in order for them to see things as I/we do? If no one is, then the pace of technical development and in addition, earning more income in places, is slowed to a snails pace. Best wishes Richard On 30 Sep 2010, at 18:47, Anthony McKale wrote: Ok puts on bbc hat, lots of us like open source commit to open source etc etc iPlayer's a bit of a special case where were often legally bound not to share the files for Rights reasons or even if we do have the rights we have geoip agreements not to share them abroad, then if we do finally have all the above then we have competition issues with competitors getting rather Annoyed when we share things there trying to sell, And at that point I'd advise everyone interested to contact the bbc trust would decides such things, Basically the way to get our video/audio on the web is flash at the moment, when html 5 matures and gets drm maybe we'll use that or what ever the new kid on the block is, it won't be my decision that's for sure Have a look at the work done for radio aunty and such to see excellent ways of embedding flash into your page Ant On 30/09/2010 17:42, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: And by doing so, they're only pissing off their best viewers - the early adopters. Shooting themselves in the foot when hobbyists only want to *help* - Original message - They've been going out of their way trying to stop unapproved apps grabbing content. They put a lot of effort into making sure content is unavailable to open source systems when simply leaving it as is would mean anyone could write on top of iPlayer. e.g. read the second PDF http://pjakma.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/bbc-response-to-my-iplayer-drm-fo i-request/ Open Source gets a mention under meetings with Technology, Piracy and Enforcement ticked in the header of the minutes. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Replace BBC with iPlayer and I'd agree with some of those points, it's more a indifference and lack of care rather than being directly
RE: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
why do you think early adopters are their *best* viewers? do you think that's how the BBC has/should have a preference for some viewers over others? From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Alex Cockell Sent: 30 September 2010 17:42 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content And by doing so, they're only pissing off their best viewers - the early adopters. Shooting themselves in the foot when hobbyists only want to *help* - Original message - They've been going out of their way trying to stop unapproved apps grabbing content. They put a lot of effort into making sure content is unavailable to open source systems when simply leaving it as is would mean anyone could write on top of iPlayer. e.g. read the second PDF http://pjakma.wordpress.com/2010/05/17/bbc-response-to-my-iplayer-drm-fo i-request/ Open Source gets a mention under meetings with Technology, Piracy and Enforcement ticked in the header of the minutes. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: Replace BBC with iPlayer and I'd agree with some of those points, it's more a indifference and lack of care rather than being directly hostile though. And I'd say that will changes rather soon, due to various management changes. Ps since no one's publicly said I can't Here's some really good ref data feeds (ps like all these feeds PROXY-CACHE don't hit feeds directly or you'll kill them) http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/service/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/category/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/masterbrand/service_type/t v/id s/service1/ids/sevice2/ eg http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/ion/refdata/type/service/discoverable_only/ 1/fo rmat/json Very useful reference feed for ion, ps you guys aren't missing much from not having access to the wiki, it's mainly incomplete, inaccurate or out-of-date. Zap On 30/09/2010 13:15, Iain Wallace ikwall...@gmail.com wrote: Unlikely. The BBC have gone out of their way to be hostile to open source attempts at using iPlayer content, however you will find working examples and programs for playing iPlayer stuff on pretty much anything on that same wiki. On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 11:15 AM, Alex Cockell a...@acockell.eclipse.co.uk wrote: I'm not personally looking for metadata, but it would be great if some of the open-source players were permitted back into the fold, meaning that VLC and the like could play BBC content... Especially for cpu architectures that Adobe don't support. Oh, and be able to distribute said player plugins in Linux distro repositories. And I want to be able to play content on my n900 again. - Original message - Not sure what you're looking for, but all the metadata that iPlayer pages uses to build a programme page is openly accessible http://beebhack.wikia.com/wiki/IPlayer_Metadata It can't not be otherwise the javascript on those pages wouldn't work. On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 2:59 PM, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: it uses some of them, but iplayer it's self is created from them too -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk on behalf of Mo McRoberts Sent: Wed 9/29/2010 2:52 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 14:23, Anthony McKale anthony.mck...@bbc.co.uk wrote: yah the feeds aren't https/firewall protected so i'm guessing no one should mind or at least it'll be a lesson to them if they didn't want folks accessing them If memory serves either the EMP SWF itself or the supporting JS makes use of them, which would require their visibility. I could be wrong, though -- I can't for the life of me recall how I came to believe this to be the case, so I could just be making things up. M. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010, Anthony McKale wrote: Replace BBC with iPlayer and I'd agree with some of those points, it's more a indifference and lack of care rather than being directly hostile though. I have to say, that's not true. The BBC has expended extra effort on: a) Implementing newer and less laughable content protection mechanisms b) Shutting out unauthorised clients (never mind that the BBC should /never/ have the power to authorise viewing devices) It has done these things several times over the course of a number of years. There's just no way you can call that indifference and lack of care - it's clearly a high-level policy. If your point is that the BBC didn't mean to class free-software clients as unauthorised, or that it's indifference that has meant the BBC hasn't gotten round to authorising free-software clients, then I think you may be missing the point. (With all due respect): It's simply inevitable, given that policy, that the BBCs' resources will never be enough to cover all the clients that might wish to be authorised. The BBC has chosen to focus its resources on authorising the devices of, primarily, large manufacturers. The BBC has consciously decided to not bother with authorising free-software clients (be it at a per-user or a per-software level). I know this for a fact, because I applied for such and have had not any reply once I made clear what I wanted to have authorised. Of course, none of this changes the fact that real content protection is a pipe-dream - all such schemes are very brittle. The likes of get_iplayer will continue to exist and work. It's just a shame the BBC makes fine technical people waste their effort on trying to block such clients. regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: If parents would only realize how they bore their children. -- G.B. Shaw - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
However there's an additional point that people often forget is that the BBC has (as any other entity) the need to protect its name and brand. They can't allow one unauthorised client without allowing them all, e.g. if a device manufacturer was to launch a device with their own iPlayer client, (which may for example be plastered with adverts), the BBC would be in the awkward position of allowing some unauthorised clients, but not others. I don't know if anyone's seem any YouTube app implementations on various non-PC devices - TVs, media streamers etc. I've had that fortune. Some are good. Some are okay. Some are frankly appalling. And they all have YouTube's logo on the top of the screen. And the appalling ones look very bad on YouTube because YouTube's logo is there, YouTube's content is there. Surely YouTube must have made it? No. They didn't. Not always anyway. Many of them are built independently using YouTube's API. But just as a good homespun implementation makes YouTube look good rather than the developer, so to does a shoddy implementations reflect badly on YouTube, not the developer. Last year YouTube started pulling the plug on some of these homespun versions. http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/20/youtube-pulls-a-hulu-yanking-api-acce ss-from-popcorn-hour-ot/ YouTube started enforcing their T'n'C's to ensure they devices either use a standard YouTube product (YouTube XL) or by the manufacturer making a deal with Google to use the YouTube API (thus ensuring YouTube get sign off over the implementation) Now imagine all that with BBC's instead of YouTube's. The expectation of quality and of service is not something the BBC takes lightly. Rightly so. Every product I launch I'm acutely aware that my audience has expectations of how the application we're launching. It's a philosphy that sits across the organisation - it's at the heart of the organisation. The user expects much of us. It expects far more of us than it does of someone like YouTube because the licence fee payer pays a compulsory fee to get it. When we get it wrong, that's bad. People write about it in the Daily Mail. Now I'm not saying open source people write shoddy software that would reflect badly on the BBC, although if we're fair and honest... well some do. There are people in the BBC who would love to let you do more with iPlayer. And there are people in the BBC who are concerned about people doing that. Cos how do you tell someone that the buggy app they've just used isn't actually by the BBC and that it's not the BBC's fault that it sucks? It's the BBC content after all... [1] [1] If you think that sounds far fetched, more than once I've seen irate comments from people wanting to know why the BBC iPlayer had stopped working on their Freesat box [2]. Sometimes it is a problem at our end - hands up here - we don't always get things right and sometimes things break. However sometimes it's things like their ISP, or their router. In one case recently the ethernet cable had come out whilst dusting. In every case the assumption by the user was that BBC iPlayere was to blame. [2] Disclaimer - I currently product manage two versions of BBC iPlayer on TV devices, one of which is the MHEG version used on Freesat and now some Freeview devices. The above views are purely my own and do not represent any official BBC policy in any area at all - especially not on views of on the state of YouTube implementations :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010, David Dorward wrote: The alternative would be aggravating the people who they have license agreements with that let them put the content on the Internet in the first place… which goes somewhat beyond foot shooting. Those people, who make much use of free software themselves (e.g. because their online distribution systems depend on it), but who refuse to allow free software systems to view it? I know I'm trying my best to convince people that next generation of free software licences need some kind of non-discrimination clause. So we'll have to wait and see exactly who is shooting themselves in the foot in the long-run. More immediately, the problem is with the rights-holders thinking that content protection is achievable, and in not realising that its implementation simply encourages the piracy. When will the rights-holders learn that deliberately making your product *less* useful than freely available alternatives *harms* their ability to extract value from your product? regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: Suddenly, Professor Liebowitz realizes he has come to the seminar without his duck ...
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Thu, 30 Sep 2010, Chris Warren wrote: If a streaming-only client was distributed in binary form (to ensure the software will always only be streaming-only) and keys were sufficiently protected, and NDAs and commercial agreements were signed you might get somewhere. Binary offers no protection at all. Do the business people really think that programmers can't understand and modify assembly (be it for real machines or for VMs)? However there's an additional point that people often forget is that the BBC has (as any other entity) the need to protect its name and brand. They can't allow one unauthorised client without allowing them all They could allow access to the HTML iPlayer. Then they have full control over the branding and the client user-experience. And guess what, this is precisely what the BBC do for many of the authorised devices. Then of course there's the legal position that the BBC would be put in if it were to allow content to be shown on devices that it has not been licensed for. The BBC today has no control for iPlayer generally but the Geo-IP check. Which is the same check it would apply if it'd allow more clients to access HTML iPlayer. So this argument doesn't hold either. regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: The Lord gave us farmers two strong hands so we could grab as much as we could with both of them. -- Joseph Heller, Catch-22 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Andrew Bowden wrote: There are people in the BBC who would love to let you do more with iPlayer. And there are people in the BBC who are concerned about people doing that. Cos how do you tell someone that the buggy app they've just used isn't actually by the BBC and that it's not the BBC's fault that it sucks? It's the BBC content after all... [1] These issues can all be side-stepped by allowing access to HTML iPlayer. - Client only provides the transport - BBC controls the UI - BBC applies its existing Geo-IP checks (which are deemed sufficient for the general access Flash version) - Only question is browser compatibility, but that's not about branding or piracy, and there are only a limited number of browser framework implementations. Some people inside the BBC have the strange notion Flash provides some additional protection, which the HTML version would not. They are simply wrong, I am afraid - as empirical reality should show them. ;) regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: Serving coffee on aircraft causes turbulence. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Wed, 29 Sep 2010, Stephen Jolly wrote: Dev certs are indeed a bit of a red herring - they're what you need to access the extranet-style wikis, repositories etc that the BBC uses to collaborate with external developers under NDA, but the whole system's been set up for something conceptually completely different to what Alex wants. I suspect the NDA bit would be troublesome for FOSS developers for starters. The HTML iPlayer seems to list some kind of BBC Dev client cert CN as acceptable, so it's not a red-herring at all. ;) If the BBC would allow interested free software users access this way, that'd suit me. regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: You will soon meet a person who will play an important role in your life. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Wed, 29 Sep 2010, David Dorward wrote: Not least because the BBC has agreements about content with other entities and has had to make such agreements with them. So exactly what requirements do those agreements impose upon the BBC? If we knew that, we might be able to help propose solutions. Except the BBC says this information is a privileged secret. regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: For every problem there is one solution which is simple, neat, and wrong. -- H. L. Mencken - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On 1 Oct 2010, at 10:55, Paul Jakma wrote: However there's an additional point that people often forget is that the BBC has (as any other entity) the need to protect its name and brand. They can't allow one unauthorised client without allowing them all They could allow access to the HTML iPlayer. Then they have full control over the branding and the client user-experience. I can see two main drawbacks with this. 1. If you look at the devices in the market which have access to this; none of them provide a way to get the content off the device (for redistribution or long term archiving). It seems reasonable to assume that this is not a coincidence. 2. Not all browsers are created equal, and embedded devices can have some pretty shocking browsers on them. Providing an HTML iPlayer wouldn't ensure acceptable quality, so could reflect badly on the BBC. -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, David Dorward wrote: 1. If you look at the devices in the market which have access to this; none of them provide a way to get the content off the device (for redistribution or long term archiving). It seems reasonable to assume that this is not a coincidence. So its impossible to get content off an iPad or an iPhone or a PS3 then? I think whoever put that argument to you may be badly mistaken. 2. Not all browsers are created equal, and embedded devices can have some pretty shocking browsers on them. Providing an HTML iPlayer wouldn't ensure acceptable quality, so could reflect badly on the BBC. Not all TV sets are created equal... regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: Let sleeping dogs lie. -- Charles Dickens - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Paul Jakma wrote: On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, David Dorward wrote: 1. If you look at the devices in the market which have access to this; none of them provide a way to get the content off the device (for redistribution or long term archiving). It seems reasonable to assume that this is not a coincidence. So its impossible to get content off an iPad or an iPhone or a PS3 then? I think whoever put that argument to you may be badly mistaken. Oh, and this argument is also rendered ridiculous for as long as the BBC supports sending video to general purpose PCs. regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: Engineering without management is art. -- Jeff Johnson - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On 1 Oct 2010, at 11:45, Paul Jakma wrote: On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, David Dorward wrote: 1. If you look at the devices in the market which have access to this; none of them provide a way to get the content off the device (for redistribution or long term archiving). It seems reasonable to assume that this is not a coincidence. So its impossible to get content off an iPad or an iPhone or a PS3 then? I think whoever put that argument to you may be badly mistaken. iPad - has low quality video which has been being yanked for ages. I suspect this has gone under the heading of acceptable loss PS3 - flash, same as the main iPlayer iPad - I'm yet to see someone pulling the video data from the iPlayer web app they use here. Is there a way lurking around somewhere? -- David Dorward http://dorward.me.uk - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, David Dorward wrote: You mean iPhone here I guess: iPad - has low quality video which has been being yanked for ages. I suspect this has gone under the heading of acceptable loss iPad - I'm yet to see someone pulling the video data from the iPlayer web app they use here. Is there a way lurking around somewhere? iPad has been rooted. Also Apple use the same signing cert for all iOS devices, and the client cert appears reasonably generic for iOS - so regardless of official support, an iPhone may well have the same level of access as iPad. PS3 - flash, same as the main iPlayer Meh, the video is still accessible - doesn't matter whether it was an RTMPE or HTTPS stream that delivers the bits.. regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: People who fight fire with fire usually end up with ashes. -- Abigail Van Buren - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
Wii isn't too difficult to figure out, though it's more complicated. I have actually had a little look at Wii iplayer myself to see how H.264 decoding is done on such a feeble device. There are lots of layers of encrypted data but people have figured out how to decrypt them. I think the ipad is a plain http stream - nothing fancy in that regard. --- On Fri, 1/10/10, Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org wrote: From: Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Subject: Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Date: Friday, 1 October, 2010, 12:07 On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, David Dorward wrote: You mean iPhone here I guess: iPad - has low quality video which has been being yanked for ages. I suspect this has gone under the heading of acceptable loss iPad - I'm yet to see someone pulling the video data from the iPlayer web app they use here. Is there a way lurking around somewhere? iPad has been rooted. Also Apple use the same signing cert for all iOS devices, and the client cert appears reasonably generic for iOS - so regardless of official support, an iPhone may well have the same level of access as iPad. PS3 - flash, same as the main iPlayer Meh, the video is still accessible - doesn't matter whether it was an RTMPE or HTTPS stream that delivers the bits.. regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: People who fight fire with fire usually end up with ashes. -- Abigail Van Buren - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:43, Andrew Bowden andrew.bow...@bbc.co.uk wrote: I've had that fortune. Some are good. Some are okay. Some are frankly appalling. And they all have YouTube's logo on the top of the screen. And the appalling ones look very bad on YouTube because YouTube's logo is there, YouTube's content is there. Surely YouTube must have made it? This why trademark law exists. Now I'm not saying open source people write shoddy software that would reflect badly on the BBC, although if we're fair and honest... well some do. It's not really an 'open source' thing. it's just 'third parties'. it so happens that large commercial entities have a route to gain the approval you talk about, and open source developers don't. There are people in the BBC who would love to let you do more with iPlayer. And there are people in the BBC who are concerned about people doing that. Cos how do you tell someone that the buggy app they've just used isn't actually by the BBC and that it's not the BBC's fault that it sucks? It's the BBC content after all... [1] and yet the corporation copes with this very scenario in the magical world of actual broadcast reception (where it doesn't have the _ability_ to enforce the sorts of restrictions applied here [FVHD excepted], and so doesn't bother wasting money trying). the BBC doesn't have the resources (be it time, cash, or expertise) to build iPlayer into everything that people have which could support it, and nor should it. in other contexts, this is why standards and approval marks and so on are used... I know and you know and pretty much everybody on this list knows that the reason the big CE manufacturers can build TVs with iPlayer implementations and yet none of us are allowed to do the same in software alone is realistically sod all to do with quality (because that's a comparatively easy problem to solve) and largely about rightsholder agreements (which is an impossible problem to solve, because nobody outside of the parties to the agreements has any idea what conditions they impose). - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 13:49, Kieran Kunhya kie...@kunhya.com wrote: Wii isn't too difficult to figure out, though it's more complicated. I have actually had a little look at Wii iplayer myself to see how H.264 decoding is done on such a feeble device. There are lots of layers of encrypted data but people have figured out how to decrypt them. I think the ipad is a plain http stream - nothing fancy in that regard. it's HTTPS. uses client certificates as an access-control mechanism. it's easier to get the RTMP streams delivered to the desktop iPlayer than any of the alternative Internet-based mechanisms, and that one's practically difficult to prevent for fairly obvious reasons. mind you, it's even easier to pull the stream off-air if you remember in advance... (it was only this morning that I saw an advert for Sky+ which crowed about the fact you can record an entire series and keep it around for as long as you like...) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
(it was only this morning that I saw an advert for Sky+ which crowed about the fact you can record an entire series and keep it around for as long as you like...) Until the box crashes and loses all of your recordings, natch. Alex - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
Now I'm not saying open source people write shoddy software that would reflect badly on the BBC, although if we're fair and honest... well some do. It's not really an 'open source' thing. it's just 'third parties'. it so happens that large commercial entities have a route to gain the approval you talk about, and open source developers don't. Of course it's not. However it's important to note that everything I say can equally be applied to non-open source products. There are people in the BBC who would love to let you do more with iPlayer. And there are people in the BBC who are concerned about people doing that. Cos how do you tell someone that the buggy app they've just used isn't actually by the BBC and that it's not the BBC's fault that it sucks? It's the BBC content after all... [1] and yet the corporation copes with this very scenario in the magical world of actual broadcast reception (where it doesn't have the _ability_ to enforce the sorts of restrictions applied here [FVHD excepted], and so doesn't bother wasting money trying). No it doesn't. But lets imagine that the UK TV system was being designed right now... What do you think a popular request would be? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 14:20, Andrew Bowden andrew.bow...@bbc.co.uk wrote: No it doesn't. But lets imagine that the UK TV system was being designed right now... What do you think a popular request would be? I'm sure it would be, but that doesn't alter its feasibility, does it? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] API into iPlayer content
mo says: the reason the big CE manufacturers can build TVs with iPlayer implementations and yet none of us are allowed to do the same in software alone is [..] largely about rightsholder agreements (which is an impossible problem to solve, because nobody outside of the parties to the agreements has any idea what conditions they impose). which is why it's absolutely pointless keep recycling the same thread on the backstage lists it's like walking into your local branch of blockbusters and haranguing the assistants because disney added drm to the dvd you rented. the assistants might feel some sympathy, the blockbuster managers might agree that drm only punishes fair use but it's not realistically gonna change anything if you walk into blockbusters and harangue the same assistants with the same speech every week eventually they're just gonna buy ear plugs. or unsubscribe winmail.dat
[backstage] Re: BBC Weather Summary text
Sorry to double post (couldn't tell for sure if the mail reached the list or not) If no one knows these weather statuses does anyone have any cunning ideas on how to work them out? Thanks Michael On 28/09/10 14:37, Michael Wood wrote: Hi, Is there a standard set of summary text's used in the BBC Weather RSS feed in the title tag e.g. sunny intervals sunny white cloud I'm looking for something to base the selection of an appropriate summary image on. Thanks Michael - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Re: BBC Weather Summary text
-Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Wood Sent: 01 October 2010 15:20 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Re: BBC Weather Summary text Sorry to double post (couldn't tell for sure if the mail reached the list or not) If no one knows these weather statuses does anyone have any cunning ideas on how to work them out? Would this lot be of use? http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/bbcweather/features/symbols.shtml - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Re: BBC Weather Summary text
On 01/10/10 15:27, Andrew Bowden wrote: -Original Message- From: owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk [mailto:owner-backst...@lists.bbc.co.uk] On Behalf Of Michael Wood Sent: 01 October 2010 15:20 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Re: BBC Weather Summary text Sorry to double post (couldn't tell for sure if the mail reached the list or not) If no one knows these weather statuses does anyone have any cunning ideas on how to work them out? Would this lot be of use? http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/bbcweather/features/symbols.shtml Thanks Andrew, good find, those seem to match up well. Michael - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] BBCs' commitment to fair dealing rights (was RE: API...)
On Fri, 1 Oct 2010, Andrew Bowden wrote: No it doesn't. But lets imagine that the UK TV system was being designed right now... What do you think a popular request would be? You mean content protection. The thing is, the BBC currently *is* in the process of designing what will become the UK TV system, and the BBC is trying to build content protection into it. What though of the public's fair dealing rights? The public explicitly has a number of rights, e.g. to right to make copies for private study, or for educational/research purposes, or to re-use small portions of a work for critical purposes, etc - an inexhaustive list. The systems the BBC is designing today, which may well become the future systems for TV delivery, do NOT make any provision for the public to exercise these rights. The BBC today appears to be engaged in building systems which are beholden to commercial, corporate interests, given the BBC deliberately is building in technical measures which try rob the public of their ability to exercise these long held rights. The only public interest that has been given consideration by the BBC, we know from public documents and statements, is the right for the public to have access to as much commercial material as possible - which of course requires content protection. Personally, I really don't think its in the BBCs' long term interests to go down this path of giving commercial interests such strong weighting. But hey. regards, -- Paul Jakma p...@jakma.org Key ID: 64A2FF6A Fortune: Losing your drivers' license is just God's way of saying BOOGA, BOOGA! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
