Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
Andrew Bowden wrote: A less cynical way can be explained on the subject of web usability. Usability experts will tell you that many users get rather daunted by very long pages full of text, so the way round it is to split the article over several pages. Which is something I've always found odd - I prefer all the content on a single page (especially as having the content spread across multiple web pages makes it difficult to review earlier material). It's why I find IBM's DeveloperWorks one of the better developer sites on the net, as each article is on a single page. I tend to dislike the ones that separate their articles into several pages (webmonkey would be an example, but there are countless others). Maybe it depends on your target audience, or maybe it's old advice from when looking at long pages of text on a computer was a fairly new experience to a lot of people. However, it is difficult not to get cynical as it does seem like the sites that use a single page are the ones that are less dependent on advertising. Scot
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
Aha! Back in the day (about 4 years ago) BBC Web producers were measured on Page Impressions, rather than the now current Unique Users. On older sites you'll find a lot of areas like galleries, articles, and quizzes that split content in to lots of subpages, and encouraged repeated clicking. This is not a coincidence... (This was, however, 4 years ago, and isn't something that goes on any more.) That's a slightly cynical way of looking at paginating a story over several pages. A less cynical way can be explained on the subject of web usability. Usability experts will tell you that many users get rather daunted by very long pages full of text, so the way round it is to split the article over several pages. Which is the correct answer in this case, well I don't know. However at the BBC we've done the latter a few times. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 25 February 2007 01:51 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated On 24/02/07, Michael Sparks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I joined the backstage mailing list because the description is this: Finally, remember that the noise is the signal. You can't post too much. Deploy filters. - http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html Until the BBC Trust start posting their policy documents as Wikis, I can't think of anywhere else that this stuff is being discussed. There is a certain logic to people who actually understand the technical things having discussions with both BBC and non-BBC people about them. IMHO Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/698 - Release Date: 23/02/2007 04:39 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
Until the BBC Trust start posting their policy documents as Wikis, I can't think of anywhere else that this stuff is being discussed. Agree. The noise-level does get a touch loud, but it IS only occasional storms, and the benefits IMHO outweigh the pain. And the noise-meter is not a bad measure of the issues currently exercising/frustrating the backstage audience the most, whether they are 'core' backstage issues or not... DRM - the most miserable medicine I have to eat with tasty content. Dominic - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
On 23/02/07, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Surely the content wouldn't exist to link to without the adverts being present - paying for the publishing of the content. Ad blocking is short-sighted and selfish - you are costing the publisher money and preventing more content being produced in the future. Pretty unethical. blogpromo type=blatent http://www.jasoncartwright.com/blog/entry/2005/10/ad_blocking_and_why_its_a_bad_thing /blogpromo J I whitelist sites that I use regularly, and find useful; I just don't like ads intruding on my every click. If a site gives me good service, not only will I unblock the ads, I'll even pay. For example I have whitelisted pages that firefox extension developers use for feedback etc. and regularly click them in order to help generate revenue. I have also unblocked pvponline as I read it everyday and it gives me pleasure. I even payed $20 (well £10.37) for extra content. On the other hand I refuse to unblock slashdot as the ads are overly intrusive, if they were google ads, or other text only ones I would gladly unblock them. I happen to use a firefox plugin, but there are many pay for products that block ads are the people who sell them unethical? Personally think making me click next half a dozen times to artificially increase your page rank is unethical; but that's just me. Vijay
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
On Saturday 24 February 2007 00:48, Dave Crossland wrote: Hi James! [ he said, she said, he said, she said, he said, she said, he said, she said ] .. There are children playing in the street who could solve some of my top problems in physics, because they have modes of sensory perception that I lost long ago. - J.Robert.Oppenheimer I joined the backstage mailing list because the description is this: backstage.bbc.co.uk is the BBC's developer network to encourage innovation and support new talent. It appears to be a let's demand the BBC engage in politics, even though the correct place to do this is at the Exec Board, BBC Trust or government level. I'm not the least bit interested in that, and in fact I don't like the idea of the BBC playing politics one bit (whatever particular piece of politics - whether I agree with it or not - this IMO isn't the place). As a result, I'd just like to ask people to think - is this the right forum for this, or could there be a better one? (the conversation clearly needs to take place by the looks of things) If they think it is, just a note to say that if people are interested in discussing Kamaelia related issues, I'd prefer that to happen on the Kamaelia mailing lists (cf the contact part of the kamaelia website). (sad really, since Kamaelia really does fall under the heading of user our stuff to build your stuff) Regards, Michael. -- http://kamaelia.sourceforge.net/Home - The opinions above are mine and not my employers - - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
On 24/02/07, Michael Sparks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I joined the backstage mailing list because the description is this: Finally, remember that the noise is the signal. You can't post too much. Deploy filters. - http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
On 22/02/07, James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, The fact you deliberately linked to the print version of Vanity Fair - thus removing the chance of the publishers to earn money from your visit from advertising, and/or effectively market the other content on their website, is very telling. Perhaps he just didn't want us to keep clicking next just so vanity fair can boost their page rank? That's Why I link to print-only versions of websites. The Adverts are no problem as I use an Adblocker; If I want to gauge my eyes out, I'll find a flash only site to do it myself. I don't need horrendous flash ads to do it for me.
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
Surely the content wouldn't exist to link to without the adverts being present - paying for the publishing of the content. Ad blocking is short-sighted and selfish - you are costing the publisher money and preventing more content being produced in the future. Pretty unethical. blogpromo type=blatent http://www.jasoncartwright.com/blog/entry/2005/10/ad_blocking_and_why_it s_a_bad_thing /blogpromo J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vijay chopra Sent: 23 February 2007 16:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated On 22/02/07, James Cridland [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dave, The fact you deliberately linked to the print version of Vanity Fair - thus removing the chance of the publishers to earn money from your visit from advertising, and/or effectively market the other content on their website, is very telling. Perhaps he just didn't want us to keep clicking next just so vanity fair can boost their page rank? That's Why I link to print-only versions of websites. The Adverts are no problem as I use an Adblocker; If I want to gauge my eyes out, I'll find a flash only site to do it myself. I don't need horrendous flash ads to do it for me.
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
On 2/22/07, Alice Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The problem with this argument is that the technology doesn't respect the consumer's right to choose. The technology currently removes rights under fair use, and breaking that technology also involves breaking a (ridiculous) law. It's a broken situation all round, and it doesn't come down to whether anyone's saying content creators should be paid. Course they should. Blanket licensing would solve this, for instance, without any DRM technology required. There are other ways and means of generating revenue, and certainly a slew that the collective minds haven't even thought of yet... I for one welcome the new business models. Let's try them all and see what sticks in this new and shiny digital world, rather than trying to brute force yesteryear's analogue models onto the world of upload once, copy forever. Whilst I agree with your argument, it's worth noting that 'Fair Use' is a US legal concept, and of little relevance in the UK, where we currently have the alltogether more restrictive set of exceptions and limitations to copyright called 'Fair Dealing' (Although this may change in the wake of the Gowers Review last year). The other point worth noting concerning James's argument is that the assertion that 'It's the content-creators choice to have crap in their content or not.' suggests the notion that copyright is a property right over creative work, in the same way that one can have an ownership right over a pencil, or car. This is simply not true - Copyright law (in both the UK and US) has always been framed as a time-limited *monopoly* right, *granted* to authors to give an incentive to create (and therefore to contribute to the public domain at the end of the copyright term), not as a pre-existing *property* right, *recognised* by the law. (The term 'Intellectual Property' is a misnomor in this respect, and in fact has only been in common use since approximately the 1970s.) I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. Cheers, Tim
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
On Fri, 2007-02-23 at 17:26 +, Jason Cartwright wrote: Ad blocking is short-sighted and selfish - you are costing the publisher money you're possibly saving them money by not downloading their assets, saving them a (fractional) amount of transit costs. and preventing more content being produced in the future. Pretty unethical. It might be many things, but it isn't unethical. I've just skipped some ads on my PVR. Is that unethical? I turned over the centre-ad-spread in a glossy mag - ditto? What I look at on my own computer is surely up to me. If banner-ad doesn't make companies enough money to survive, isn't that up to them - and whether I block the ads or not, isn't that up to me? George - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
Hi James! The poet, the artist, the sleuth - whoever sharpens our preception tends to be antisocial; rarely well-adjusted, he cannot go along with currents and trends. A strange bond often exists among antisocial type in their power to see environments as they really are. Professionalism merges the individual into patterns of total environment. Amateurism seeks the development of the total awareness of the individual and the critical awareness of the groundrules of society. The amateur can afford to lose, the professional tends to classify specialize, to accept uncritically the groundrules of the environment. The groundrules provided by the mass response of his colleagues serve as a pervasive environment of which he is contentedly unaware. The expert is the man who stays put. There are children playing in the street who could solve some of my top problems in physics, because they have modes of sensory perception that I lost long ago. - J.Robert.Oppenheimer - The Medium is the Massage, 1967 -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
Dave, The fact you deliberately linked to the print version of Vanity Fair - thus removing the chance of the publishers to earn money from your visit from advertising, and/or effectively market the other content on their website, is very telling. I am deeply sorry that you don't want people to earn money from creative work; and disappointed that you object to the idea that content-creators need to control the distribution of their content. You've made your point very clearly on this list a number of times. It's now turning from charmingly naive discussion to something rather more irritating. Perhaps, for the sake of all our sanity, I could leave it with this real-world observation, that I hope even you agree with. - Some content-creators will want to have 'Content Restriction And Protection' on their content. - Some content-creators will choose not to have 'crap' in their content. - It's the content-creators choice to have crap in their content or not. - Some consumers won't want content with crap in it. - But some consumers won't care whether the content has crap in it or not. - Ultimately, the consumer will choose whether they want crap or no crap. - Content-creators may gain more benefit from controlling the use of their crappy content. - But content-creators may gain more benefit from leaving the crap out of their content. - The gamble for the content-creator is whether to put the crap in or leave the crap out. - Content-creators need to make the right individual choice. - Consumers need to make the right individual choice. - We both need to understand and respect each other's right to choose. -- http://james.cridland.net/
[backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=121866page=6 Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.37/682 - Release Date: 12/02/2007 13:23 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
Yep, just saw the news on /. : HD-DVD and Blu-Ray Protections Fully Broken http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/13/1724238 , so how much is the Beeb going to put into DRM, more than Sony and Toshiba etc. On 13/02/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=121866page=6 Brian Butterworth www.ukfree.tv Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.441 / Virus Database: 268.17.37/682 - Release Date: 12/02/2007 13:23 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
