Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-23 Thread Dave
I do not have a problem with JTAG, and I have a large collection of JTAG 
and similar debug probes. 

But I rarely use them. 

My work is inconsistent. I move from BBB's to Opi's to Freescale K70's to 
STM32's to PIC32's to PPC405's to RISC-V's to TI CC1310's .

It is difficult to become expert with a specific tool when that tool is 
unique to the current project and you have not worked with that tool for a 
couple of years and when the current project is over you may not again for 
a long time. 

I brought up the JTAG to add a bit more evidence to what I was close to 
certain of already - the Processor was not running. 

The JTAG confirmed that - at the same time I was/am not entirely convinced 
that the JTAG was hooked up properly, the software accurately reported 
results. 

One thing I have learned in decades of this work is to be very careful 
about assumptions. It is OK and often the best evidence you can get to say 
- the JTAG says the CPU is halted and will not start and that result is 
more than 50% likely to be correct.  It is altogether different to say with 
certainty something that the evidence only supports probabilistic. 

I would like to say I have never been certain and also been wrong. But that 
would not be true. 
I am happy to say that many times I have resisted being certain about 
something that was merely likely and avoided going down a wrong path by 
waiting for more evidence or looking more carefully. 

As noted I have been doing this for a long time. More than a decade ago I 
write JTAG software for a PCMCIA device that had its own Custom JTAG 
internal to the device - that is starting to become common today.  I have 
done bare metal linux board bring up on devices that were so radically 
different form the development systems as to make the existing support near 
useless. 

Today it is increasingly rare that the product is not so damn near 
identical to the development system that you put an SD card in and the 
first boards just boot right up.  I do more of what I would call Linux 
embedded systems administration than actual systems software. 

BTW after stripping half the components from the board, I am told the board 
finally booted.  I will be receiving a purportedly working board tomorow. 

I am not going to trash another engineer by name, but I have not seen a new 
board with this many errors in years.  Though I think all of them were 
assembly errors. 

Anyway I have JTAG's and USB TTL Serial cables, and  I typically use them 
for about 5 minutes on a new project. Once the board boots, I ssh into it 
and work that way.  Further most of the time I write and test software on 
an x86 linux desktop and build and run it on the target only toward the 
end. 


















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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-20 Thread 'Mark Lazarewicz' via BeagleBoard
Good job glad you were able to convince the client. I've been in situations 
like this where they wouldn't change the hardware its a goldmine if your a 
consultant. I'm also encouraged you were smart enough to use a jtag its folly 
to do board bring up without it unless you want it to take longer = big $$$Jtag 
is your friendMark


Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 1:11 AM, Dave wrote:   Thank You. 
My advice to all of my clients - including this one is that - Unless you are GM 
and making a million of something, the hardware design should deviate the least 
possible from whatever reference design or development system you are using. 
It is just not possible to save enough money on production runs of 100, or 1000 
to justify the software costs to support changes to hardware that are not very 
important.  Additionally software takes time and lengthens the critical path - 
increasing your time to market. 
My advice is pay a small amount more if necescary for hardware - a few dollars 
a piece on 100 boards is cheap. Or you will spend alot more on software. 
Do not get me wrong - I am an embedded developer - nothing makes me happier 
that a successful struggle to get that first LED to light on a new board. When 
you take my advice - I make less, the task is not as rewarding - pluging an SD 
card into a board and having it just boot right up, is really good for the 
client - but it does nto pay my mortgage and warring with a recalcitrant 
hardware and winning is intellectually rewarding. 

In several instances this client DID change their design to reflect exactly 
that advice.In some they did not. 
After a full day with the client - it is my view that the boards are 
sufficiently Fubar that they can not be fixed by software. I eventually had to 
JTAG the board and the JTAG is reporting the processor is halted, and that it 
can not get it to run. 
Though there might be some design issues - like not bringing out UART0 pins 
making debugging much harder, I beleive the most fundimental problem is with 
the board assembly.  Several parts were installed 90 or 180 degrees off. Or not 
quite on their pads. 
This is outside my scope. I am old enough and my eyes are just not good enough 
to find and fix placement and soldering errors on SMT boards. 
The client is currently working with the hardware engineer on the boards. 
I beleive they are trying to either remove everything non-essential, or build a 
new board with the barest minimum of hardware. 














I spent a whole day with the client working on the board. 

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-19 Thread Dave

>
> Thank you. 


I have pretty much done what you suggested - I built a custom u-boot, using 
patches from Mr. Nelson that assumes a BBB, 
I also moved the Debug Uart to Uart 4. 

Still no joy.  Do not get to USR0 lighting up. 

I fired up CCS 7.4 and my Segger JLink and the CCS instructions - I Beleive 
for Starter-Ware, and could not get the Segger to execute code in the 
processor. 
It told me the processor was Halted, and refused to start. 

IF I were to continue with this board I would be putting a Scope or Logic 
Analyzer on the sdcard lines to see if anything at all is happening. 

But I spent a day at the clients with the board - and kept finding more and 
more assembly errors on the boards. 

Hopefully the guy who built the hardware is now fixing it. 





 

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-19 Thread Dave
Thank You. 

My advice to all of my clients - including this one is that - Unless you 
are GM and making a million of something, the hardware design should 
deviate the least possible from whatever reference design or development 
system you are using. 

It is just not possible to save enough money on production runs of 100, or 
1000 to justify the software costs to support changes to hardware that are 
not very important.  Additionally software takes time and lengthens the 
critical path - increasing your time to market. 

My advice is pay a small amount more if necescary for hardware - a few 
dollars a piece on 100 boards is cheap. 
Or you will spend alot more on software. 

Do not get me wrong - I am an embedded developer - nothing makes me happier 
that a successful struggle to get that first LED to light on a new board. 
When you take my advice - I make less, the task is not as rewarding - 
pluging an SD card into a board and having it just boot right up, is really 
good for the client - but it does nto pay my mortgage and warring with a 
recalcitrant hardware and winning is intellectually rewarding. 


In several instances this client DID change their design to reflect exactly 
that advice.
In some they did not. 

After a full day with the client - it is my view that the boards are 
sufficiently Fubar that they can not be fixed by software. 
I eventually had to JTAG the board and the JTAG is reporting the processor 
is halted, and that it can not get it to run. 

Though there might be some design issues - like not bringing out UART0 pins 
making debugging much harder, 
I beleive the most fundimental problem is with the board assembly.  Several 
parts were installed 90 or 180 degrees off. Or not quite on their pads. 

This is outside my scope. I am old enough and my eyes are just not good 
enough to find and fix placement and soldering errors on SMT boards. 

The client is currently working with the hardware engineer on the boards. 

I beleive they are trying to either remove everything non-essential, or 
build a new board with the barest minimum of hardware. 















I spent a whole day with the client working on the board. 

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-17 Thread 'Mark Lazarewicz' via BeagleBoard


Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 7:10 AM, Charles 
Steinkuehler wrote:   On 1/17/2019 4:34 AM, 'Mark 
Lazarewicz' via BeagleBoard wrote:
> I'm a retired low level SW engineer mostly for RTOS and barebones. If you are 
> low level capable/board bring up SW  in the interview alarm bells would be 
> screaming. From your last question I'm confused BBB minimal example why? You 
> said they expect you to get work done on BB white.This deadline story smells 
> like you were setup I hope this is a $100 hour contract not some 2 month 
> permanent job.Don't fight the HW guy but if he isn't willing to help you get 
> correct DDR timing values for HW if the bonehead didn't use exact HW as 
> reference  you may be working 80 hrs a week free if its not a contract job.
> In the year since I last used this on omap 17x Its been deprecated.
> http://www.ti.com/tool/STARTERWARE-SITARA
> 
> good luckI have no idea what you plan on doing with this.You say you have 
> extensive linux experience in what apps? If so I'd plan an exit plan 

+1 on using starter-ware as a reference for low-level configuration,
but with any luck you won't have to dig that deep into the guts of things.

The U-Boot code is already doing low-level hardware configuration, you
just need to tweak things a bit.  There are already functions
available to setup the various UARTs and I2C.  I think you should be
able to modify the SPL code (which is trying to read the EEPROM and
properly setup the SDRAM, among other things) to provide some
externally visible output.

NOTE: Since your board is based on the Octavio part, at least you
don't have to worry about the DRAM bus timings or trace routes being
messed up.  I think if you can get your code running (double-check all
boot mode pins) and hard-code the EEPROM auto-detect, you should be
able to get running.  #FingersCrossed

-- 
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char...@steinkuehler.net

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Hey said he wasn't sure which parts were used he had no input on hardware which 
is bad news.All my comments are based on if the HW guy rolled his own board 
trying to keep things cheap that's the worst case.If he used standard parts he 
could fake out the boot code. The problem is it sounded like there is no eeprom 
if that's true the HW guy is cutting corners. I've yet to see a HW guy worry 
about software porting issues after all they say SW is free. I've also never 
saw a manager who was behind schedule Not minimize the board support and bring 
up he's gonna say what's the problem. Hopefully I'm wrong. I always ask these 
questions in an interview. If I'm right he's gonna be the scape goat for the 
schedule and that's O.K. if your 80 hours a week is paid  

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-17 Thread Charles Steinkuehler
On 1/17/2019 4:34 AM, 'Mark Lazarewicz' via BeagleBoard wrote:
> I'm a retired low level SW engineer mostly for RTOS and barebones. If you are 
> low level capable/board bring up SW  in the interview alarm bells would be 
> screaming. From your last question I'm confused BBB minimal example why? You 
> said they expect you to get work done on BB white.This deadline story smells 
> like you were setup I hope this is a $100 hour contract not some 2 month 
> permanent job.Don't fight the HW guy but if he isn't willing to help you get 
> correct DDR timing values for HW if the bonehead didn't use exact HW as 
> reference  you may be working 80 hrs a week free if its not a contract job.
> In the year since I last used this on omap 17x Its been deprecated.
> http://www.ti.com/tool/STARTERWARE-SITARA
> 
> good luckI have no idea what you plan on doing with this.You say you have 
> extensive linux experience in what apps? If so I'd plan an exit plan 

+1 on using starter-ware as a reference for low-level configuration,
but with any luck you won't have to dig that deep into the guts of things.

The U-Boot code is already doing low-level hardware configuration, you
just need to tweak things a bit.  There are already functions
available to setup the various UARTs and I2C.  I think you should be
able to modify the SPL code (which is trying to read the EEPROM and
properly setup the SDRAM, among other things) to provide some
externally visible output.

NOTE: Since your board is based on the Octavio part, at least you
don't have to worry about the DRAM bus timings or trace routes being
messed up.  I think if you can get your code running (double-check all
boot mode pins) and hard-code the EEPROM auto-detect, you should be
able to get running.  #FingersCrossed

-- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-17 Thread 'Mark Lazarewicz' via BeagleBoard


Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
 
  On Wed, Jan 16, 2019 at 11:55 PM, Dave wrote:   Would you 
know where there is a minimalist example of setting GPIO for USR0 on that 
assumes nothing. 
i.e. if necescary sets the pin mux or whatever else might be needed ?
Basically some BBB GPIO bare metal example. 

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I'm a retired low level SW engineer mostly for RTOS and barebones. If you are 
low level capable/board bring up SW  in the interview alarm bells would be 
screaming. From your last question I'm confused BBB minimal example why? You 
said they expect you to get work done on BB white.This deadline story smells 
like you were setup I hope this is a $100 hour contract not some 2 month 
permanent job.Don't fight the HW guy but if he isn't willing to help you get 
correct DDR timing values for HW if the bonehead didn't use exact HW as 
reference  you may be working 80 hrs a week free if its not a contract job.
In the year since I last used this on omap 17x Its been deprecated.
http://www.ti.com/tool/STARTERWARE-SITARA

good luckI have no idea what you plan on doing with this.You say you have 
extensive linux experience in what apps? If so I'd plan an exit plan 









  

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-16 Thread Dave
Would you know where there is a minimalist example of setting GPIO for USR0 
on that assumes nothing. 

i.e. if necescary sets the pin mux or whatever else might be needed ?

Basically some BBB GPIO bare metal example. 

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-15 Thread Charles Steinkuehler
On 1/15/2019 2:34 AM, Dave wrote:
> 
> I followed these instructions 
> 
> and additionally set 
> CONFIG_CONS_INDEX=4 in the defconfig.
> 
> Held the boot button and cycled the power. 
> 
> The USR0 LED did not come up. 
> 
> Can I presume there is a more significant issue than that the eeprom is 
> blank ?
> 
> https://octavosystems.com/forums/topic/osd3358-boot/

I don't know enough about the BBB U-Boot to say for sure, but given
the issues you're having, I'd try to isolate what's wrong as early as
possible:

1) Verify your boot loader is actually running by toggling a GPIO or
perform some other externally visible activity *IMMEDIATELY* after the
boot loader code is launched.  In other words, in the MLO code, before
things like SDRAM are available.

2) Once you know you can actually run code, verify the SDRAM is being
properly initialized and can be successfully accessed.  You can likely
use one of the other UART ports for some diagnostics here, but
toggling GPIO pins or LEDs for status is always a fall-back.

3) Make sure the interface to whatever storage you're using (uSD
card?) is actually working.

4) At this point, you should be able to proceed with development
mostly as normal until you get the boot loader working properly and/or
figure out what's wrong with the board (other than the missing EEPROM).

...or you could just try debugging from reset using JTAG, but I'm a
hardware guy so I tend to shy away from most of the SW debugging
tools.  Unless I'm really desperate, they tend to take more time for
me to setup than they save in debugging.  But if you're already
working in an environment that supports the JTAG debugger, this might
be easier for you.

Also, if you've got schematics, double-check the settings on the boot
pins, both in the schematic and on the physical board.  There should
be pull-up and/or pull-down resistors to set the mode.  If there were
issues populating the board, that could be messing with your intended
boot mode and you'll never get anything to work.

Good luck!

-- 
Charles Steinkuehler
char...@steinkuehler.net

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-15 Thread Dave

I followed these instructions 

and additionally set 
CONFIG_CONS_INDEX=4 in the defconfig.

Held the boot button and cycled the power. 

The USR0 LED did not come up. 

Can I presume there is a more significant issue than that the eeprom is 
blank ?

 

https://octavosystems.com/forums/topic/osd3358-boot/

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-14 Thread Dave
Thanks;

I would love to get confrontational with the hardware designers, but I am 
two levels removed in different companies 
It is possible that UART0.TX and UART0.RX have been brought out to VIA's - 
but they are not labeled, and I do not have a PDF or gerber of the board 
layout. 

There have been a number of errors on this already - either the masking or 
pick and place screwed up and delayed the boards almost a month. 

My problem is that there is a deadline for a prototype in Early Feb. 

No matter whose fault it is, if the deadline is blown it will be bad for 
all. 

I design hardware for fun - though nothing I can not build myself with 60 
year old eyes - that rules out SMT

I write software that works with hardware for a living.  Mostly linux. 

I have done board bring up on boards with no linux support at all so I can 
work my way through this the hard way if I have to. 

Yes, it is really mean not to bring out UART0. 
The debug UART is absolutely critical for board bring up, and near useless 
afterwards. 
Just two pads that is all I want. 


As I think of it I am going to have fun with UART1-4 too.  They have level 
shifters, so my TTL USB serial cable wont work. 
I am going to have to find my old RS232 level cables. 






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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-14 Thread Charles Steinkuehler
I design hardware for a living.

You need to throw this back at the hardware designer and have him/her
present you with a workable board.

They took a SIP designed to take all the hard work out of making a
BeagleBoard clone and managed to mess things up enough so that it
won't boot and you can't even tell how.

At the very least, I would insist on having them wire up UART0 so you
can have a console.  Unless they royally f**ked up the PCB layout,
this should be possible by soldering a few "flying wires" to some via
pads.  If they didn't fanout all the SIP pads to vias, you have my
permission to shoot them!  :)  

Best of luck!

...and if you don't want to get confrontational with the HW guys, you
should be able to fairly easily compile U-Boot to use a different
serial port.  That ought to get you any console info printed except
for the character(s) printed by the actual ROM boot loader.  And once
you have console output, debugging gets a *LOT* easier.  :)

On 1/14/2019 5:06 PM, Dave wrote:
> I have been searching arround all day and gathering more information. 
> 
> The "Clone" board appears to be an Octavo SIP and is partly patterned after 
> an PocketBeagle. 
> There is also a display similar to that of the BB 4.3 Cape. 
> The SIP eeprom is unlikely programmed, there is no eeprom to tell linux 
> about the display. UART0 is not accessible, and there is no networking - 
> beyond g_ether.
> 
> Even if I resolve the SIP eeprom - the display is not going to come up, and 
> I am not going to have a serial console and I am not going to have network 
> access to the board. 
> 
> And at this point I do not actually know that the board is good. 
> 
> To me that means I really need to rebuild u-boot - and assign the console 
> to one of the other uarts. 
> I might as well at the same time address the SIP eeprom. 
> 
> This board has a USB A and a USB B connector, so I can for development 
> purposes attach a USB NIC to gain network access to the board. 
> But I still probably need the serial console until I have the net fully 
> configured. 
> 
> I pulled your "Bootloader-Builder" Github repository as there was a patch 
> there to address the eeprom issue. 
> 
> But just running build.sh ran for hours, failed, and is probably not what I 
> wanted. 
> 
> I commented out most of the builds at the end of build.sh. 
> 
> I am guessing that I want am335x_bone_flasher enabled. 
> But I also want to enable a patch to assume a pocketbeagle 
> as well as to change UART0.  

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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-14 Thread Dave
I have been searching arround all day and gathering more information. 

The "Clone" board appears to be an Octavo SIP and is partly patterned after 
an PocketBeagle. 
There is also a display similar to that of the BB 4.3 Cape. 
The SIP eeprom is unlikely programmed, there is no eeprom to tell linux 
about the display. UART0 is not accessible, and there is no networking - 
beyond g_ether.

Even if I resolve the SIP eeprom - the display is not going to come up, and 
I am not going to have a serial console and I am not going to have network 
access to the board. 

And at this point I do not actually know that the board is good. 

To me that means I really need to rebuild u-boot - and assign the console 
to one of the other uarts. 
I might as well at the same time address the SIP eeprom. 

This board has a USB A and a USB B connector, so I can for development 
purposes attach a USB NIC to gain network access to the board. 
But I still probably need the serial console until I have the net fully 
configured. 

I pulled your "Bootloader-Builder" Github repository as there was a patch 
there to address the eeprom issue. 

But just running build.sh ran for hours, failed, and is probably not what I 
wanted. 

I commented out most of the builds at the end of build.sh. 

I am guessing that I want am335x_bone_flasher enabled. 
But I also want to enable a patch to assume a pocketbeagle 
as well as to change UART0.  
















 










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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-13 Thread Dave
I did not do the hardware. 
I did not have much input to the hardware or UART0 would have been brought 
out
I will forward that question. 

But I beleive the board is using the Octavio SIP.

Further that makes sense with what I am seeing. 
Power up - power LED comes up, no other LED's. 

I have not looked through u-boot to see when it flashes USR0-3 LEDs - but I 
am not seeing them so I am guessing if anything is being loaded from SD it 
is dying fast. 

My next step would be to hook up a JTAG, but there is a deadline, and the 
prototype will get finished on a BBBW and I will come back to the 
production board later. 

Regardless, eventually this problem needs solved. 

I would like to hear that if I build u-boot differently everything will be 
honky dory. 





I have alot of embedded Linux experience - but less with the BBB. 
I was unaware that there was u-boot in eeprom in a BBB. 

Is the primary loader in the am335x or Octavio SIP capable of loading 
u-boot from the SDcard ?

If so is it possible to build u-boot to do the initialization that is not 
being done here ? 


















































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Re: [beagleboard] Booting BBB Clone

2019-01-13 Thread Robert Nelson
On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 7:33 PM Dave  wrote:
>
> I am working to bring up a BBB "clone".
>
> There are two significant differences that are/may be causing problems.
>
> 1). UART0 is not accessible.
> 2). The device does not have the BeagleBoard 32K I2C eeprom.
>
> Anyone have pointers for building a U-Boot that Uses any other UART besides 0 
> ?
>
> Is U-Boot going to have an issue because of the missing eeprom ?
> Linux ?
>
>
> Do I just need to change uEnv.txt to force a specific device tree ?

Let's talk about this BBB "clone"...  Did you copy the DDR and TPS*
specs from the BeagleBone Black, the original White board, or did you
use an Octavo SIP?  I ask, because in u-boot the eeprom is used to
setup a whole bunch of voltage rails and ddr timing requirements.

Regards,

-- 
Robert Nelson
https://rcn-ee.com/

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