Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-19 Thread Andrew via bitcoin-dev
@ Eric: Yes I forgot to mention that cost (in addition to price) also determines the profitability of mining and thus the total hashpower. I disagree with your assessment of merge mining as really what matters is opportunity cost of honestly mining vs attacking, and one reason we are currently

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-17 Thread Andrew via bitcoin-dev
> I see what you say, however, since the proposal as I have read it says "And > this will keep happening as long as hashrate keeps rising," - what actually > happens in the case hashrate stagnates or falls? In general, a target hashrate can be set by users (can be less or more than the peak

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-17 Thread Zawy via bitcoin-dev
The 51% problem is deep. Any discussion of a solution to it should begin with a link to an article that shows a profound discovery has been made. Selfish mining prevention and pollution should be on bitcoin-discussion, but it appears that list is not active. The problem with Andrew's idea below

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-17 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
> Once hashrate gets large enough, no new miners (additional hashrate) will want to join since their share of the hashrate is too small to make a profit. The share (hash power) of a miner is proportional to capital investment, not the newness of that investment. The efficiency of a new mine

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-17 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
> Also with merge mining and proof of space we can be quite efficient in the > future. Proof of memory (space) is just proof of work with extra steps. It does not reduce energy consumption. https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin/wiki/Proof-of-Memory-Facade Merge mining is non-dedicated

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-16 Thread Eric Voskuil via bitcoin-dev
I am PoW only and not PoS orientated. > > From: akarama...@gmail.com on behalf of Andrew > > Sent: Sunday, 16 September 2018 2:01:19 AM > To: Damian Williamson > Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion > Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention > > @Moral Agent:

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-16 Thread Damian Williamson via bitcoin-dev
To: Damian Williamson Cc: Bitcoin Protocol Discussion Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention @Moral Agent: No problem. I did ask in the first post what the current plans are for selfish miner prevention. So if anyone has any other relevant ideas (not just for selfish mining but for mak

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-15 Thread Andrew via bitcoin-dev
> From: bitcoin-dev-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org > on behalf of Andrew via > bitcoin-dev > Sent: Friday, 14 September 2018 9:19:37 AM > To: Bitcoin Dev > Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention > > I discussed this more at bitcointalk: > https

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-14 Thread Damian Williamson via bitcoin-dev
bitcoin-dev Sent: Friday, 14 September 2018 9:19:37 AM To: Bitcoin Dev Subject: Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention I discussed this more at bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4998410.0 The attacks I'm interested in preventing are not only selfish mining and collusion,

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-14 Thread Andrew via bitcoin-dev
(reposting to whole list instead of just him) @Moral Agent: Interesting proposal though it introduces some elements of proof of stake so it would be more controversial in my view. Also, something needs to be explained about how this would not create an attack where difficulty is frequently

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-14 Thread Moral Agent via bitcoin-dev
Thank you, and my apologies. I should have sent that link just to you and not put everyone on cc. On Fri, Sep 14, 2018 at 1:30 PM Andrew wrote: > (reposting to whole list instead of just him) @Moral Agent: > Interesting proposal though it introduces some elements > of proof of stake so it would

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-14 Thread Moral Agent via bitcoin-dev
You might be interested in an idea I wrote about that is in a similar spirit here: https://medium.com/coinmonks/taming-large-miners-with-helper-blocks-6ae67ac242f6 >From the article: When a block is solved, it randomly selects one satoshi from the utxo set and gives whomever controls that

Re: [bitcoin-dev] Selfish Mining Prevention

2018-09-14 Thread Andrew via bitcoin-dev
I discussed this more at bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4998410.0 The attacks I'm interested in preventing are not only selfish mining and collusion, but also more subtle attacks like block withholding, and in general anything that aims to drive out the competition in order