Re: [board-discuss] WollMux adoption proposal for The Document Foundation
Hi Am 02.01.23 um 13:25 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: Doesn't feel terribly off-topic here (dev list would also not be a 100% on-topic match, neither website or marketing? - but for very generic discussions, there's always the global discuss list of course). You could open a topic at https://community.documentfoundation.org :-) -- Have a nice 2023 Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] [DISCUSS] Approve in-house developers proposal v.3.1
Hi Andreas While you don't like answers in private mail I post it on this list. Am 27.11.22 um 16:44 schrieb Andreas Mantke: I'm curious to read own statements from the 'several of the community' here. Maybe most of us follow the golden rule of mailing lists not to feed trolls? ;-) Seriously: I feel we all are tired of this discussion and I may imagine many of us don't even follow them in detail any more - not out of a lack of interest but mostly because of the way it was and is conducted. Coming to the controversial part of the proposal: In my pov it's sheer nonsense to write such statements like those discussed here into a job description or even a contract. Not only the person concerned hardly is in the position to decide on these issues; its also in the full responsibility of his or her boss to decide what they are working on - and no way in the developers own consideration. And I'm rather confident that this also was part of the legal advice the board has got. In a benevolent view on this document it may at best serve as a board's internal letter of intent. But I'm sure - however (if ever) it is voted, when it comes to concrete decisions, the same discussion will arise with new energy. So it's most probably in no case worth all the fuss we see today. My advice emphases the KISS rule (we always should kiss more): Keep it simple, st... :-) -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Re: Acceptance of MC role
Am 17.09.22 um 00:34 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: I, Uwe Altmann, elected member of the Membership Committee of The Document Foundation, hereby accept this position within the Stiftung bürgerlichen Rechts. My term will start September 19, 2022. Signed: Uwe Altmann Ich, Uwe Altmann, gewähltes Mitglied des Mitglieder-Komitees der The Document Foundation, nehme mein Amt innerhalb der Stiftung bürgerlichen Rechts an. Meine Amtszeit beginnt am 19. September 2022. Unterzeichnet: Uwe Altmann -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Self nomination for Membership Committee: Uwe Altmann
Hi My name is Uwe Altmann, I’m 65 years old male, married and living in Saarbücken (Germany) direct by the french border. I’m self-employed, bur mostly preparing my retirement. I joined the (then) OpenOffice community around 2004. Mostly in marketing activities as helping at CeBit fair as long as we had a booth there. Besides being engaged in German community I did some QA and documentation on Macs. In the past few years I helped the TDF to get GDPR compliant an developing the idea of a business unit. In “real live” - with an completed education as psychologist and statistician - I did mostly data analysis, statistics and consulting, both public administration and charitable organizations. So thus I‘m kind of experienced in German charity laws, managing organizations as well as internal revenue code, especially concerning charitable organizations. I’m not a coder anymore – my last programming experience lies back in the early 90ies (at least there is some). But besides this my last payed job was requirements engineer and managing a team of developers. The spare time I won by reducing my business activities I use to do more for the TDF. Strengthen the community is one of my favorite goals. I may as well help in compliance with the German charity regulations and in organizational matters. So I was elected in 2020 for the first time into the MC as a substitute member. Since then, I developed the specification and served as the product owner of the new Software to manage applications, which hopefully will be productive in the next few weeks. Full name: Uwe Altmann Email address: u...@libreoffice.org Corporate affiliation: None ~75 words candidacy text: I, Uwe Altmann, candidate for a seat in the membership committee of The Document Foundation. I have been around with the project and TDF since the early beginning, mostly in German community and QA for the Mac version. Actually I’m more in organizational matters. Being more an administrative guy than a coder I would like to foster the TDF as organization. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Re: LibreOffice in app stores free, paid or both?
Hi Am 11.07.22 um 15:52 schrieb Paolo Vecchi: I just wanted to ask the community how they think LibreOffice should be published in the various app stores. Should it be: a. available at a cost b. free c. both "Various app stores" invites me to open the next playground :-) Free in F-Droid, but a (small) fee in Google Play scnr: Meant just for those who prefer to work on solutions instead pledging "censorship" by putting a mailing list under moderation where thy are afaik included in the list of moderators. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] re-discovering the Foundation roots?
Hi Sophie Am 05.07.22 um 14:18 schrieb sophi: Is this meeting reserved to the board members or the whole community (not only TDF members) is also invited? Basically yes ;-) To be honest: I didn't think of this - both variants have their pros and cons. Let's look what interest evolves and then decide. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] re-discovering the Foundation roots?
Hi Am 04.07.22 um 22:59 schrieb Thorsten Behrens: I'd certainly be interested. It would be the marketing workshop, like in Brno? Same method, maybe different core question(s) because this one initially directs more to the past than to the future. This could also be seen as a restart of the mission statement discussion. All seems to circle around the same black spot of our self-understanding. Some kind of "Who am I, and if so, how many?" [1] - discussion. Proposals welcome :-) [1] https://www.penguinrandomhouse.de/Paperback/Wer-bin-ich-und-wenn-ja-wie-viele-Eine-philosophische-Reise/Richard-David-Precht/e223057.rhd -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] re-discovering the Foundation roots?
Hi Am 28.06.22 um 20:39 schrieb Emiliano Vavassori: I support that and I would love to hear a speech at the conference, possibly followed by a constructive discussion. Uwe, are you candidating yourself? I'm willing to prepare and moderate a session (similar to the one in Brno) If there is some interest within the community because it doesn't make sense to do this with three to five Persons new at the project as we had in Rome. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] re-discovering the Foundation roots?
Hi Am 25.06.22 um 16:36 schrieb Paolo Vecchi (in thread: [board-discuss] Work On Update LOOL (was Re: LOOL is about to be archived): We might need a meeting dedicated to re-discovering the Foundation roots as I have the impression that some have different understanding of why TDF was created and what its role should be. If this proposal is appreciated, we may do so at the LO conference? I feel such a a discussion is far better made face-to-face than online or per a mailing list. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Drafting job posting for "part-time web technology expert"
Hi Flo Am 23.05.22 um 10:38 schrieb Florian Effenberger: The latest version is available at https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/CSzrtsKJt4GKY7P For any last comments and edits, please send them in by Friday this week. We then will finalize the job posting and aim for a publication possibly next week. Sorry for being (too?) late, just found the time to read it: Perhaps Django/Python skills for the new MC application would also be a "nice to have" and worth mentioning? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Drafting job posting for "QA analyst"
Hi Am 11.05.22 um 16:50 schrieb Xisco Fauli: The board is happy to get your feedback and proposals. Maybe a short mentioning of the existing tooling besides Bugzilla (i.e. description of the continuous build system used) would be helpful? As it is described now, the availability of a small server farm seems to be a precondition for any applicant ;-) "Ability to build and run LibreOffice daily on different platforms and operating systems...Stress testing each component daily" btw: "Development, deployment and supervision of automated stress testing of each component" seems quite more appropriate (and feasible) to me than "Stress testing each component daily"? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Decidim startup proposal
Hi Emiliano Many many thanks for bringing this forward! One thing I'd like to amend, even if I feel it is not necessarily suited to be integrated into the proposal yet: Everybody wanting to use such a tool (no matter which one of the mentioned) must realize that this will not work out without permanent professional (means: educated and work intensive) moderation. We must consider that in every discussion. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Commercial entity vs community development and distribution
Am 13.01.22 um 20:56 schrieb Michael Meeks: Oh - wow, I didn't know that. Wow - that is awful. That crushed my hopes for a good Firebird based future. So what other options are there for a sensibly licensed, in-process database ? Does PostgreSQL do it - could we run the server in a thread cross-platform, can we get its data into a file ? ;-) I guess we should prolly re-do the analysis of alternatives here to work out if there is a sensible way forward; but that belongs on the dev-list - and it's a big job to even know what we might want to do. Do we really need an embedded database? The unique selling point of base seems to me that it's the only free DB frontend developing software around (besides "real" software development environments). So maybe we should concentrate on connectors, not on an embedded database engines which in most cases could be replaced by a calc table - and if not, then by mariaDB. just my 2c (I know its's just ancillary and not the point you want to made, but scnr) -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Conflict of Interest Policy
Hi Simon Thank you for your explanations. (And I'm sure Paolo also has read them with interest.) Am 10.10.21 um 13:21 schrieb Simon Phipps: it's just one of those things that gets things done in a timely manner rather than consigning them forever to discussion. Seems some things are still working quite well at the TDF :-) And btw: Thanks for all your still lasting engagement. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Conflict of Interest Policy
Hi Simom Am 06.10.21 um 14:46 schrieb Simon Phipps: I will note none of the text has been supplied to or discussed by the legal committee (where I am a volunteer). Could you (or soemone else) please explain or point me to a location where I can find more on that legal committe? I tried a search at https://www.documentfoundation.org/ which didn't find anything. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Re: Access To Membership Data
Hi Andreas Am 30.05.21 um 20:22 schrieb Andreas Mantke: Have you already compared the details of meetings and decision making for the board and the MC in the statutes. There are differences which need to be considered for the access and the processing of the personal data (of members and applicants). You may save me a lot of time and work accomplishing this, giving also the sources. Personally I can't see regulations for data processing in our statutes e.g. But besides this, German law provides a lot of special rights to information for members of an association like TDF. But this does not touch the way the tendered software shall work. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Re: Access To Membership Data
Hi Andreas Am 30.05.21 um 20:22 schrieb Andreas Mantke: I already opened a new thread. I changed the subject of this thread (in accordance to the usual way I know for mailing lists). No, technically you didn't :-) Just changing the subject isn't enough, because mail readers use the message ID of the mail you answered to thread mails (at least Thunderbird does) which will be written into the mail header when answering an existing mail. And you answered an existing mail which will keep your answer in the tread instead of opening a new one, despite of the subject's text. This will only used by some mail readers if the ID of the mail answered isn't available. To be sure to open a new thread you have to write a brand new mail instead of clicking an "answer" button. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello Guilhem Am 30.05.21 um 12:26 schrieb Guilhem Moulin: You want “e.g.” then not “i.e.”. The latter isn't a replacement for “for instance”, it stands for “id est” (“that *is*”). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_(E)#e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_(I)#id_est Thanks for the hint. I use(d) it as abbreviation for "in example" - but indeed, for the better educated of us it surely is misleading :-) So indeed, it was meant as an example to illustrate something, not to emphasize something. I'll correct the specs accordingly. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Am 29.05.21 um 18:31 schrieb Andreas Mantke: Interesting to read in the specifications document about a self hosted Captcha but without pointing to an example for such solution. You embezzled the "i.e." just before that. It was meant to illustrate the idea, not to describe or define a specific intended solution. I'm curious about a working self hosted Captcha provider. Me too :-) -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Re: Access To Membership Data (was: Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling)
Hi Andreas Am 29.05.21 um 08:49 schrieb Andreas Mantke: could you please explain who have and who should have access to the membership data (old tooling and new tooling) please...I found nothing about this in the detailed specifications for the tender. First of all: This tender is based on a software specification and not on a description of the working processes of the MC. The latter are just subject as far as it seems necessary to describe the needed software functionality. And this list thread should hold on that tender. Feel free to open another thread for anything else. You did nothing find on data access in the specs because you obviously read only some few pages. In short: Regulating data access is not a function of the tendered software but in fact a function of granting access to it by our SSO solution. You find that described at page 14 of the specs - including the information who is intended to be able to access the software and thereby the data. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
HI Am 29.05.21 um 09:08 schrieb Andreas Mantke: what about the payment for drawing the specifications paper? Is this done on a voluntary base like other public available documents / tender specifications in the project? Yes. It was done by me on a voluntary base. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Andreas Am 27.05.21 um 19:39 schrieb Andreas Mantke: > your reply showed little up to no knowledge and interest in that > CMS/DMS. That's quite right. I'm really not interested in CMS/DMS (at least here) but in a sound and sustainable solution which eases the work of the MC. You may convince me any time, but I'm rather suspicious with proposals containing statements like "probably" or "90%" :-) > Why should I bother /nudge Plone developers and ask them to spent > time on a proposal? Your response shows a very hostile tone towards > the Plone open source community. ... (and for the records: I'm not a > Plone developer, but developed Plone add-ons) And yes, I'm (here) not interested in the plone community. That's not the point at all: Here at TDf we're interested in LO and some related fields. That's our "core business" if you want. The necessary rest gets more or less outsourced if we can afford it. No one would expect TDF engages in i.e Gnucash community just to get it's bookkeeping managed. We instead would pay a gnucash ecosystem company to do the necessary coding, thus following our own credo on how open source software of a certain complexity can be sustainably supported. So we look for a company to outsource a special problem solution, described in the specification document. And we are willing to pay those ecosystem companies for services we feel in need of but which we don't see as our core business (we strongly prefer companies engaged in open source community). i.e. a company which does the necessary plone adjustments. But we surely not would ask the plone community or a certain developer to do so on a voluntary base (c.f. "credo" above). > Maybe you have not been part of the crew that worked on the first > steps of the project and it's infrastructure. If individuals or small > groups wouldn't have set up a website based on Silverstripe (without > asking for permissions or without a poll) or a Template and Extension > website based on Plone, maybe the project would discuss have > discussed about this tooling for month without any visible action. Right, it happened that I was in Nepal at the time TDF was founded :-) And all of this was surely true and necessary at the very start of the project when we didn't have the resources for other/better solutions. > One core principle of the project is that the doers decide the way > and you'll find this form of action at many places in the project. > This principle will fail (for a volunteer project) once the people > that want to tell the doers what and how they had to work, becomes > the majority or the bosses. All right for the mentioned "core business" - or in other words: the goals of the foundation following our statutes. That's how a community works we believe. Besides: LO in no way is or ever was "volunteer project" (a project has a start and an end). It's a community with a high extent of volunteer engagement. But this is in no way right if it comes to administrative decisions. To stay in the above example: It sounds rather silly to start a community wide discussion on which software we will use to do our bookkeeping. And in our case, the MC is "the doers". The tooling we use until today emerged exactly the way you described above: Someone set up something which was far way better than nothing. But it has some severe immanent drawbacks. And we understood that we don't have the skills to set up a solution by our own which satisfies our needs. So we made a tender on this. Anyone who offers a sound solution is welcome. Within the boundaries of the specification and some abstract requirements like acceptable bus factor or serviceability. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Andreas Am 26.05.21 um 21:17 schrieb Andreas Mantke: So go on and...arrange ^^!!! That's the point: Stop complaining but go on and nudge a company or a group of Plone developers to offer something and to give a credible answer how to ensure 5 years of reliable support on this. As a plone developer you'll surely know some. With python we'll have no problem to find someone if we need some changes in a few years. Maybe it's most easy to complain on this. I offered hands-on workshops with no interest from the TDF community in the past. The TDF admin team got a training from a Plone core developer some time ago. ...what doesn't change anything on the basic problem. We (in contrast to your opinion) did not first set up plone (or something else) and then look for people who perhaps maybe want to learn it (which - if we had found some - would have been at least the second best solution. But we didn't find them). We have to cut the coat according to our cloth. (btw.: Similar as the android app. Sad - but there seems no one out there interested to develop under TDFs umbrella) But there are other software with such Bus_factor in the project, but nobody is complaining about that (or not loudly / in public). And what does this contribute to the discussion on the MC tooling? Please stay focused. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Andreas Am 26.05.21 um 20:23 schrieb Andreas Mantke: I'd expect that the DMS/CMS Plone could deliver about 90 % of the expected functionality within it's core code or within an add-on. The accessibility, stability and security also shouldn't be an issue. (https://plone.org/accessibility-info). And it's OSS software. So go on and feel free to make or arrange an offer covering /all/ the described use cases and further specified requirements. Python is labeled as preferred (because of [1]), not as required! Concerning Plone as platform: I tend to prefer something with a slightly better bus factor [1] than our Plone experience has shown in the past. But also here: Insights welcome. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Statement on Richard M. Stallman and Free Software Foundation
Hi Andreas Am 26.03.21 um 11:03 schrieb Andreas Mantke: And to what perception of TDF's bodies/team from the community / the outside would that lead? I didn't sign either. Imho it was not appropriate because (besides I'm not a member of any of TDFs bodies) this is not a statement of single persons but a statement of the TDF as an own body. This has to be decided by (a majority of) the BoD only. So Lothars signature, based on a decision of the BoD would have been absolutely enough - all further "good will"-signatures are rather distracting an lead in the end to some kind of strange discussions as we can see here. Case of "contradiction of well done is well-meant". So - again imho - there are not too less but too many signatures under this document. But feel free to organize a collection of signatures in this case in parallel. Seeing forward to read the document anyone who has concerns with this case may sign (and I'm sure there will be many). -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] donation infobar vs. straight donations ...
Hi One remark: Am 10.03.21 um 22:22 schrieb Michael Meeks: * switch the donate URL in the app - to something that re-directs to ... unfortunately that has no effect for~6 months ] Maybe we tweak not the URL in the app but that of the donation page instead? This would work immediately, not only in 6 month? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Board of Directors Meeting 2020-09-11
Hi Andreas Am 17.09.20 um 18:56 schrieb Andreas Mantke: > I already knew the German binding text. But you are following only the > first interpretation method. But that is not the whole story ;-) But it's the text. The topic may be worth a discussion, but here and now these are "Da Rules". Interested in the second interpretation method. And of course in the whole story too. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Board of Directors Meeting 2020-09-11
Hi Andreas Am 15.09.20 um 20:17 schrieb Andreas Mantke: > This gives three members/members representatives with affiliation > 'Collabora Productivity' during this board call. Nope. Following the cited message at https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/2019/msg00109.html , it looks to me Infinis beeing a partner, not an subsidiary of Collabora. Reading the German original text of § 8 (4) of our statutes [1], "afiliate" has the clear meaning of "subsidiary", not "partner". As you wrote: > ...if there has nothing changed... [1] "...für dieselbe Firma, Organisation oder Einheit oder einer ihrer Tochterorganisationen als Angestellte arbeiten." -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Re: Acceptance of MC role
Am 16.09.20 um 01:46 schrieb Franklin Weng: > I, Uwe Altmann, elected substitute member of the Membership Committee of > The Document Foundation, hereby accept this role within the Stiftung > Bürgerlichen Rechts. My term will start September 19, 2020. > > Signed: Uwe Altmann > > Ich, Uwe Altmann, gewähltes Ersatz-Mitglied des Mitglieder-Komitees der > The Document Foundation, nehme mein Amt innerhalb der Stiftung > Bürgerlichen Rechts an. Meine Amtszeit beginnt am 19. September 2020. > > Unterzeichnet: Uwe Altmann -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Acceptance of MC role
> I, Uwe Altmann, elected substitute member of the Membership Committee of > The Document Foundation, hereby accept this role within the Stiftung > Bürgerlichen Rechts. My term will start September 19, 2020. > > Signed: Uwe Altmann > > Ich, Uwe Altmann, gewähltes Ersatz-Mitglied des Mitglieder-Komitees der > The Document Foundation, nehme mein Amt innerhalb der Stiftung > Bürgerlichen Rechts an. Meine Amtszeit beginnt am 19. September 2020. > > Unterzeichnet: Uwe Altmann -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] MCC questions ..
Hi again :)
Am 05.09.20 um 18:32 schrieb Muhammet Kara:
> By the way, let me try to explain the problem/unfairness described above a
> bit by example, for the ones who are not familiar with the issue:
>
> A and B are working in the company X
> C and D are working in the company Y
>
> They all run in the MC elections
>
> A got the 1st position (becomes member)
> B got the 2nd position (becomes member)
> C got the 3rd position (becomes member)
> D got the 6th position (becomes deputy member)
>
> Because of the affiliation restriction, both A and B having the same
> affiliation, one of them (let's say B) steps down from MC position, and is
> kicked out of the MC completely. But C and D, although they have the same
> affiliation, stay at their positions. So B is, in a way, punished for getting
> too many votes. See the unfairness?
So now I understand the problem. Seems to me rather a handling glitch ;-)
Is it right that a deputy member is - in all practical matters - seen as a
member of the body but without a vote (attends meetings in an active role,
shares all information etc.)? Then the CoI-Rule surely should apply for deputy
members as well. This is imho the necessary solution because this affiliated
deputy member ("D") could only step in if a member with the same affiliation
("C") steps back; otherwise the CoI-Rule would prevent him/her to observe
his/her duty.
Legal advice needed: Is a "deputy member" also a case of "member"? If "yes"
then the case is ruled by the statute's CoI-Rule anyway. If in doubt or if not,
then:
There is § 12 (5) which reads "The details of the induction and expulsion from
the Membership Committee shall be regulated by a community by-law from the
Board of Directors."
So these by-laws maybe could have ruled (or specified the handling of) such a
case; so the BoD is free to change or add such rules.
So maybe no need to tweak the statutes - at least for the MC. But imho we need
a solution for this for the BoD also. So a "yes" would be appreciated :-)
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Uwe Altmann
--
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Re: [board-discuss] MCC questions ..
Hi Am 04.09.20 um 13:17 schrieb Michael Meeks: > .. > + Do you think we expand the membership by accpting > more marginal contributions for membership cf. > https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Membership_Role#Contributing As § 10 (3) of our statutes read "The details of the induction and exclusion from the Board of Trustees shall be regulated by a community by-law from the Board of Directors..." So I see just a little influence of the MC on this. It's rather at the BoD to make things clear on this topic. > * Do you believe we should have a half-way house / badge > between membership and non-membership that encourages > a person, and gives the a path via more contribution to > achieve full membership ? No. Purpose? You do contribute - then you qualify for application. I've see rather the opposite view: People contributing a lot but don't feel that this qualifies them to apply. And even if they knew that they qualify, they often ask "Why should I do so?" > * When there are no concrete metrics (such as translated strings, > code commits, wiki changes, ask comments, etc.) available to > decide on a person's contribution; what is best practice for > MC members vouching for their friends' contributions, and how > should other MC members validate that ? Interesting question. For example myself - no translated strings, code commits, wiki changes, ask comments, etc. at least in the last few years. And there are even more persons fitting into that schedule (beside their work payed for by the TDF). Seems high time to discuss this community by-law. > > * To what degree should the MC's decisions & discussion > be transparent (ie. publicly available) ? Afaik the decisions are publicly available and send out per mail to all members every three month :-) - and this is btw more than the BoD does ;-) . The metrics used by the MC - as far as metrics apply - should be also available for the public (btw: Aren't they?). For the rest: Perhaps we need better defined criteria (c.f. community by-law). Normally these "soft" engagements are in public and so per definition traceable for the public. Other way round: Threw out Mike Sch. just because his work can't be seen (by it's very nature) publicly? At least in a few cases some trust in the decisions of the mc seems unavoidable. Questions or public discussion should always be possible, but not get the standard procedure. > * How do you believe we can improve the existing election > system - assuming the statutes can be tweaked ? To solve what problem? Wasn't this... > + I'm interested in where we have the situation that > being too popular can stop you being able to > engage at all as a deputy - as we saw with > Miklos/Jona in the last MC election, and Kendy > in the last Board election. ...a clear matter of § 8 (4) of the statutes to avoid a CoI? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Questions To MC Candidates
Hi Andreas Am 28.08.20 um 08:18 schrieb Andreas Mantke: > a) regarding the mission of the MC (§ 12 of the statutes) have you > already participated in board calls during the last two years as > external (non-member)? Yes, I did. mostly because I try to help in the discussion of a business entity. > b) What is your personal take on a 'cooling down' periode between being > a member of leading bodies of the foundation, regarding the first > sentence in the statutes § 12? This seems only of interest in case a member of the BoD wants to get a member of the MC to prevent or influence a pending lawsuit against himself. It is surely desirable to have prevented such a possibility by our statues - but nothing is perfect. And some kind of self-commitment will not prevent such a case. On the other hand the time schedule of the board and mc elections is a bit cumbersome for such an operation. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Self-nomination for the Membership Committee: Uwe Altmann
Hi everybody :) My name is Uwe Altmann, I’m 63 years old male, married and living in Saarbücken (Germany) direct by the french border. I’m self-employed with a strong tendency to retirement. I joined the (then) OpenOffice community around 2004. Mostly in marketing activities as helping at CeBit fair as long as we had a booth there. Besides being engaged in german community I did some QA and documentation on Macs. In the past few years I helped the TDF to get GDPR compliant an developing the idea of a business unit. In “real live” - with an completed education as psychologist and statistician - I did mostly data analysis, statistics and consulting, both public administration and charitable organizations. So thus I‘m kind of experienced in German charity laws, managing organizations as well as internal revenue code, especially concerning charitable organizations. I’m not a coder anymore – my last programming experience lies back in the early 90ies (at least there is some). But besides this my last payed job was requirements engineer and managing a team of developers. The spare time I won by reducing my business activities I want to use to do more for the TDF. So strengthen the community is one of my favorite goals. I may as well help in compliance with the German charity regulations and in organizational matters. Full name: Uwe altmann Email address: u...@libreoffice.org Corporate affiliation: None ~75 words candidacy text: I, Uwe Altmann, candidate for a seat in the membership committee of The Document Foundation. I have been around with the project and TDF since the early beginning, mostly in German community and QA for the Mac version. Actually I’m more in organizational matters. Being more an administrative guy than a coder I would like to foster the TDF as organization. -- Regards Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Board of Directors Meeting 2020-07-31
Hi a maybe dumb question: Am 04.08.20 um 18:56 schrieb Florian Effenberger: > Agenda items of private part > > 3. Discuss: Internal and external communication and processes (everyone, 7 > minutes) > Reason why in private: Discussion about internal rules of procedures > Rationale: How to improve our process in preparing, voting and timeboxing > decisions; how to handle internal and external communication Shouldn't be these processes/rules and their discussion (not the specific content by case) made public? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] New Version of Strategic Marcom Plan
Am 17.07.20 um 08:47 schrieb Michael Weghorn: > Doesn't TDF fund programming of software when it does tenders? Yes, but only in special cases and under limited conditions. Therefore the tenders have to be carefully thought of and cannot be at free will. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] New Version of Strategic Marcom Plan
Hi Am 15.07.20 um 16:05 schrieb Italo Vignoli: > A new version of the strategic marcom plan has been uploaded to > Nextcloud: https://nextcloud.documentfoundation.org/s/4pLtn9xn76BkxFK Very much improved indeed :-) Two minor naggings: Slide 3 (in regard to 4) maybe better (?) "The Document Foundation is a charitable organization, and as such is not supposed to release commercial software /as well as to fund programming of software/. Slide 28 What is the surplus of the sum of "volonteers" and "ecosystem" to form the "community"? Users? Takers? And my "ceterum censeo..." Slide 49/50 This is why I and some others propose "" set as TDB - so we get "LibreOffice" and "LibreOffice Enterprise,[brought to you by XYZ]" as a result. This avoids all of the possible negative connotations each of the proposed "additions" to the build distributed by TDF brings. And allows the intended discrimination as well: Basically we say there is a "LibreOffice" (vanilla) and "LibreOffice with benefits" (Enterprise,...) - and that's exactly what we want to tell the people, isn't it? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Some problems.
Hi Am 13.07.20 um 16:58 schrieb Italo Vignoli: > we have a peculiar development process which is IMHO rather difficult > to steer according to the usual marketing process. To be honest: The part with "from which our product development" was a joke, knowing the facts as well. ;-) (btw. the product is that mature it seems rather difficult to me to find useful new features which affect more than a dozen people - except UI improvements maybe) But what's about "sound analysis of requirements of our market from which our market communication is coherently derived?" Let's say we have three sources of knowing user requirements: 1.) Bugzilla end user requests for new features 2.) Askbot questions on features mostly existing but not known (which for the user asking makes no difference to 1) 3.) Anticipation of upcoming market developments (i.e. increasing WFH) and requirements which may come out of this Getting these analyzed on more than a face-validity base may guide our communication to be more targeted on user requirements and therefore more interesting or compelling for them (i.e. how to set up a workflow with lots of off-premise users). Maybe even the ecosystem takes profit out of such an analysis - developing LOOL wasn't decided after the fifth beer in a bar, I presume. And a user requirement must not necessarily be a function of code. Is there a requirement for single seat support contract? Mike says no, but maybe this is also a hen/egg situation? Is there a need to have some expert talks on i.e. how to do product neutral call for bids? Which in return may get us some ecosystem partners? Or maybe we need no more better hairnets but a hairspray kind of idea? Meant just as examples. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Re: [tdf-members] Discussion about options available with marketing plan draft and timetable
Hi Am 13.07.20 um 15:13 schrieb Regina Henschel: > To make these more visible, I can think of changes for the download page: > Introduction > Download option "fresh" > Download option "still". > > Introduction > The Document Foundation (TDF) provides LibreOffice releases on a /time based > cycle/. TDF provides a feature release half yearly, followed by usually six > bug fix releases. > > Other versions, including long-term support versions, and special services > for the needs of companies and larger organizations are available from > LibreOffice partners, read // for more details. > > [// are meant to be links.] > > Remove the comment "If you're a technology enthusiast, early adopter or power > user, this version is for you!" from "fresh"-rectangle. > > Replace the comment "This version is slightly older and does not have the > latest features, but it has been tested for longer. For business deployments, > we strongly recommend support from certified partners which also offer > long-term support versions of LibreOffice." with the comment "Last bug fix > release for this LibreOffice series is in ". > > > The short time where bug fixes are available for a LibreOffice series, should > make it clear to companies, that they need a different solution than just > downloading LibreOffice. +1 Can be done immediately. No preliminary decision on other topics. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Some problems.
Hi Italo Am 13.07.20 um 13:26 schrieb Italo Vignoli: >> but you're not doing marketing in my sense. > Thanks for the appreciation as communications professional. By the way > during my career I have been..and I have a BA in Marketing Management at > ISTUD in Italy. > > Of course, I respect your opinion about my limited marketing skills, so > this is just for your info. Very interesting, didn't know in detail - but I've always known you're good in what you're doing :-) What I mean is more about effectiveness vs. efficiency: It's no question that your doing an excellent job in what you're doing - but are you doing the right things (which for sure wasn't alone your decision what to do)? Coming back to "doing marketing in my sense": So you can point me to a sound analysis of requirements of our market from which our product development as well as our market communication is coherently derived? Very interested in reading that. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Some problems.
Hi sorry by being late on this. Am 07.07.20 um 22:13 schrieb Michael Meeks: > Nevertheless there are some big problems currently. Perhaps > you think you have a neat solution to one of them. I'd love to hear > about it - but solving or obsessing about just one is unlikely to do > the job: Ok, then some of my ideas to do by TDF TLTR?: Become a professional managed organization (or or at least create a sufficient professionalized organizational segment - "from professionals for professionals"). Which also means: Take the tight resources of the TDF not to solve every problem in a do-it-yourself mentality but to get them solved with/by professional help. Teach people that LibreOffice is not the gratis version of MS Office but a real great idea which they can and shall support in various ways. Till this field, then economic returns can be seeded and grow there; and this is something TDF can do. Don't try to force the TDF to do what it cannot (by statutes and/or by law) do; if it is a really important issue, create an independent structure for it. Full Text: 1. Pay a ~professional to deliver a migration white paper for small, medium an large enterprises respectively. With does clearly mention the advantages of a professional support contract. With professional layout and management summary and whatever else it takes to get it read by a lot of interested people. Base this on a sound analysis of requirements, not only on marketing labels (as written somewhere else). Therefor look for advice from marketing experts (NOT of sales or PR or communication or the like professionals who call themselves "marketing expert"!) (sorry Italo, you are undoubtedly a highly qualified communications professional, but you're not doing marketing in my sense). 1a. Even if they are true, avoid statements like "...and can significantly reduce the Total Cost of Ownership of enterprise PCs because it replaces the license cost with a substantially lower migration cost" in an official document (LibreOffice Migration Protocol, p. 1 in this case)! Anyhow, the migration protocol seems to be a good starting point. 2. Pay a full time LO developer to do mentoring workshops on a regular base, embedded by a communication campaign also led by a PR ~professional, advertising these workshops in local (modern social) media. I. e.: For Germany/DACH rent Linux hotel for one week and offer a hacking LO workshop there for (nearly) free - and advertise that widely in DACH media (not only IT centered ones), based on a ~sound media analysis of what is read by our targeted group. Both effects - educating/recruiting programmers and having a widespread LO image campaign - will be worth the money. Besides that we still suffer from the "OpenOffice - oops, I meant LibreOffice"-effect (OpenOffice meant a as class of software, not perceived as a distinct product vs. LibreOffice) and still have to establish the right name for the right product by an image campaign. Develop this an a "standard"-module (by documentation, standard teaching material, checklist, do's and don'ts...) to encourage local communities to copy that for their country (similar as the conference is a teamwork between la local community and a professional, experienced orga-team at TDF). Send them the developer in case of need. 3. Pay a ~professional organization to deliver a basic set of training materials under a CC license (i.e. attribution share-alike). Which may then been translated by the community - or enterprises using them. Lack of local training capabilities often seem to be the bottleneck of migration projects, so we should enforce them. 5. Set up a professional qualification structure (like lpi) with certificates and all this stuff. At least give the picture of doing so. "LibreOffice Certification is completely different from commercial certification... TDF is looking for LibreOffice Ambassadors, able to provide value-added professional services to grow the LibreOffice ecosystem."[1] is a nice try but will not foster commercial organizations to trust in - rather to get suspicious. 6. Stop trying to use TDF as a selling point. Won't work and even worse damage the project. It's ok to express concerns where TDF is standing in the way of business (or "ecosystem") interests and helping it stepping aside. But having the managers in charge of all of the tree "ecosystem partners" mentioned on our website [2] as members of the BoD leaves me pondering. Perhaps we should also put a definition of what is an "ecosystem partner" (and what to do to become one) on that page. btw: this page [2] should imho not be in "downloads" but in "Discover". 6. ...still thinking... [1] https://www.libreoffice.org/about-us/certification/ [2] https://www.libreoffice.org/download/libreoffice-in-business/ -- Mit freun
Re: [board-discuss] Re: Some problems.
Am 08.07.20 um 16:44 schrieb Kev M: > I also think someone earlier referenced that this could be > interpreted as being against the TDF bylaws, so those might need to > be changed anyway. This is a big part of the problem because this is exactly an option that cannot be done - at least not in a way that will not end in a situation in which ~all assets of the TDF get lost. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] UPDATED Draft Marketing Plan 2020-2025
Am 09.07.20 um 17:18 schrieb Italo Vignoli: > The two slides are extracted from the dashboard, and they are about all > contributions to the project which are parsed by the different tools, Slide 16 starts with statements about code contributions and therefor is at least misleading so far. This should then be fixed/made clear. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] UPDATED Draft Marketing Plan 2020-2025
lot of (imho) appropriate arguments against this kind of labeling. No need to repeat. We should not tell things to our customers which are not true (like "LibreOffice Enterprise:... suggested for production environments and strategic documents" which strongly implies there is a quality or even functionality gap between the two versions - if not even unfixed bugs in the community version). Slide 35 to 38 Good ideas - bot not TDFs business at all (cf. for the statutes: "promotion and development of office software available for use by anyone free of charge" is exactly /not/ what the ecosystem companies do, so TDF cannot support them to that effect)! Acting accordingly to this concept by TDF undoubtly will lead it to be a part of the marketing branch of the ecosystem companies and violating it's statutes. Maybe the ecosystem companies make up a joint agency for realizing these good ideas? Stopped here by now, will be continued maybe later on the rest of the topics. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] TDF's key goals now in Redmine
Hi Andreas Am 23.06.20 um 19:19 schrieb Andreas Mantke: > And what projects and actions had already come out of this? Are there > already joint actions, joint projects etc. which drive LibreOffice and > the voluntary sector forward? > > Such actions and projects needs someone who leads and drive them forward > (not only in spare time). You're welcome to join the germanophone community video conference Thurday evening to advance this topic. Really! :-) -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] LOOL user experience
Hi
Am 26.05.20 um 17:14 schrieb Paolo Vecchi:
> measure the level of nerdiness
I like this "level of nerdiness" :-)
"How wold you estimate your level of nerdiness on a scale from 0 ("Comuters?
wtf is that") to 10 ("I only use programs I wrote myself")
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Uwe Altmann
--
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Re: [board-discuss] Board of Directors Meeting 2020-04-24
Hi Am 13.05.20 um 11:54 schrieb Stephan Ficht: > The meeting commences at 13:05 > ... > ends 13:09 Berlin time. ...and the minutes then need two an a half weeks to be published? And at time there was really nothing worth working on it? Or reporting to the community? Ain't you ashamed of this document of obvious idleness? There are open issues which damage the Foundation and the community as long they are not solved and you dare to just do nothing? Or at least to tell us nothing about what has been discussed and/or done? Just to remind item 4 of the last TDF board meeting: "4. Discuss: one of the highest Ranking in budget vote: ...what to do in general...(Lothar, All 5 minutes, if needed shifted to the private part)" I' afraid 5 minutes will be not good enough by half. And besides that: A shift to the private part is not welcome at all. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] OwnCloud offering
Hi Just got a mail from OwnCloud offering owncloud.online as "ownCloud as a Service" - advertising "integrated OnlyOffice for easy and secure real-time collaboration on documents, spreadsheets and presentations" Is someone there to talk to them using LOO instad? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] creation of The Document Collective (TDC)
Hi there Just read the paper. It raised some questions. What I'm absolutely missing is a draft of a business plan. Based on the experiences of collabora with the Apple Store (and perhaps CIB with MS) it should at least make clear the ability of self preservation of that business unit, expressed in the estimated yearly costs to provide the app-updates, estimated return from the stores, further costs like legal/tax consultancy, dues/fees, salaries etc. Without that, all further discussion seems senseless. And what I do not understand at all is the reasons there is such a complicated and a difficult to zero controllable process with a "Public Software CIC" 50.000 € loan just to get an unincorporated association (whatever that means in terms of business and liability, i. e. ability to contract directly with app stores etc. In Germany, founding a Limited Company (GmbH) will need 25 T€ initial capital (to which the liability of the company then is limited - we may even make up an "UG" with less to zero initial capital and liability). The overall costs are about less then 1.000 €, it'll take about four weeks time and perhaps one day work. So why the TDF does not start a GmbH (as owner) and use the 25 T€ initial capital (also loaned) to get it working? Perfect control by the board and no hassle about "to commission a mechanism to spend TDC's income surplus in the manner agreed by the Board's Document" because all surplus will go automatically to TDF. IF you don't like Germany, try a french s.a.r.l. But don't go outside EU, and GB is - sad to say - half way out and still on a "leave"-course. No collision of interest too btw. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Self nomination for BoD
Hi everybody :) My name is Uwe Altmann, I’m 60 years old male, married and living in Saarbücken (Germany) direct by the french border. I’m self-employed with a strong tendency to retirement. I joined the (then) OpenOffice community around 2004. Mostly in marketing activities as helping at CeBit fair as long as we had a booth there. Besides being engaged in german community I did some QA and documentation on Macs. In the past few years I was more concerned on giving (at least some) of the community a nudge to develop a vision of the future of LibreOffice as a product as well as a community. In “real live” - with an completed education as psychologist and statistician - I did mostly data analysis, statistics and consulting , both public administration and charitable organizations. So thus I‘m kind of experienced in German charity laws, managing organizations as well as internal revenue code, especially concerning charitable organizations. I’m not a coder anymore – my last programming experience lies back in the early 90ies (at least there is some). But besides this my last payed job was requirements engineer and managing a team of developers. The spare time I won by reducing my business activities I want to use to do more for the TDF. As Eike just stated I'd also like to see that more people from regions of the world not represented in TDF yet will join us as members of the TDF - as well as members of our bodies. So strengthen the community is one of my favorite goals. I may as well help in compliance with the german charity regulations and in organizational matters. Full name: Uwe altmann Email address: uwe.altm...@altsys.de Corporate affiliation: None ~75 words candidacy text: I, Uwe Altmann, candidate for a seat on the Board of Directors of The Document Foundation. I have been around with the project and TDF since the early beginning, mostly in german community and QA for the Mac version. Actually I’m more in the marketing trying to start a process to discuss a vision of TDFs future. Being more an administrative guy than a coder I would like to foster the TDF as organization. -- Regards Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
[board-discuss] Vision workshp results so far
Hi As we plan to do another workshop on how we see the future of LibreOffice concerning users, market and community (aka "Vision"-Workshop) in Rome, here are the documentations from Brno and FOSDEM: Brno: https://cloud.altsys.de/index.php/s/DF9xvINqR2xWQx1 (148kB) FOSDEM: https://cloud.altsys.de/index.php/s/OItwC22HtHx2aL7 (341 kB) See you in Rome :-) -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: http://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
