--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
For an exaggerated example, imagine that we design
and implement layer
one knowing nothing about any GUI APIs besides
Win32. We'll probably
have to make a lot of revisions if we then want to
make that scheme fit
over a *nix GUI API.
I agree.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Bronek Kozicki
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:06 AM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: Re: Re: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't know much about
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I think now we need to decide which
*nix GUI API to use
and get started on a proof of concept.
I am currently working with win32 only. I can take
care of this one. I think it'll be nice to have
support for X as well.
Maybe we should decide which
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 10:33 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
[...]
Don't know where to start...
Greek and Roman mythology?
'Aquilo
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Don't know where to start...
Greek and Roman mythology?
'Aquilo' the north wind, the ruler of the winds.
'Notus' the south wind
'Flora' goddess of flowers and spring.
'Arcadia' a district of the Peloponnesus, the home
of
pastoral
At 10:54 AM 8/5/2003, Brock Peabody wrote:
I don't know much about other GUI systems but win32
and MFC. I think we can try to define the low-level
layer using win32 and/or MFC as the starting point.
If we cover these two, it'll be a good start and prove
of concept.
Actually for a proof of
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 5:08 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
cycle or two of our
E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't know much about other GUI systems but win32
and MFC. I think we can try to define the low-level
layer using win32 and/or MFC as the starting point.
Please, do NOT use MFC. Just native Win32 API as a starting point. MFC
is 1) not available on mingw
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
cycle or two of our recursive (I thought they called
it iterative?)
They do call it iterative. However in the C++ world
iteration is like enumeration while recursion is a
process where typically the input for the next call is
derived from the result
- Original Message -
From: Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Do you think we will be OK restricting this library to the more
conformant compilers?
That should be fine. Compiler workarounds can often be added later, and you
shouldn't need to worry about these from the start. In fact, we
On Wednesday, Aug 6, 2003, at 17:36 America/Denver, Brock Peabody wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gregory Colvin
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:48 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
Why the S?
On Wednesday, Aug 6, 2003
--- E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- Brock Peabody
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
We can get a simple sub-language running on top of
those few controls
quickly enough.
I agree. I was thinking about setting up a
sourcesafe
project.
Sorry, I meant sourceforge. Too much MS at work
--- Pietrobon Marcello [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Also, IMHO, I would keep in mind that programmers
successfully use the templates
only after some experience with a more common
programming.
I wouldn't start to set up a standard keeping an eye
only to 'real' programmers
and scare all the
Beman Dawes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:54 AM 8/5/2003, Brock Peabody wrote:
I don't know much about other GUI systems but win32
and MFC. I think we can try to define the low-level
layer using win32 and/or MFC as the starting point.
If we cover these two, it'll be a good start
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:35:45 -0700 (PDT), E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
It stands for 'standard'. Maybe that's a little
pretentious for us at
this early stage :)
I think they called it STL before it became a
standard.
gtl would probably be better.
I thought about this name, but I think it
Gregory Colvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps Perseus, who slew the Medusa, the snake-haired monster of
so frightful an aspect that no living thing could behold her without
being turned into stone.
Perseus avoid being turned to stone by clever use of indirection --
he avoided looking
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:58 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We can get a simple sub
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Joel de Guzman
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 5:31 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
[..]
Given the major differences between underlying GUI API's, your
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
1. The layer 1 must appear as one threaded API
that
has a message queue (ala win32). In other words
all
calls from layer 1 to a library object has to be
done
in the context of the thread that created the
object
(ala win32).
2. The layer
Could this discussion be moved to another list please? It's
really filling up the list and at this stage it doesn't seem to
belong on the boost list..
I'd like to second the proposal. It sounds like their is lots of interest
and it is an large-scale project, so a separate list is a good idea.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Beman Dawes
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:36 AM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
[...]
Given the major differences between underlying GUI API's, your
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It stands for 'standard'. Maybe that's a little
pretentious for us at
this early stage :)
I think they called it STL before it became a
standard.
gtl would probably be better.
I thought about this name, but I think it is already
taken, GTL (Graph
Could this discussion be moved to another list please? It's
really filling up the list and at this stage it doesn't seem to
belong on the boost list..
---
Daniel Wallin
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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:10 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
[...]
layer 1 - an abstraction of common GUI elements
--- Joel de Guzman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Since GTL is already taken, how about GTF (GUI
Template Framework)?
Can't we be more imaginative than that? Aren't we
all
already saturated with acronyms and acronyms and yet
more
acronyms? There is no
The confusion is that your interpretation (more
traditional) of a modern GUI framework is a bit
different from notus. We are not concerned with
building low-level controls. The low-level
implementation is basically proveded by the platform
(Mac, win32, etc.). Notus is just going to be using
it.
E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
It stands for 'standard'. Maybe that's a little
pretentious for us at
this early stage :) gtl would probably be better.
I suspect that if we
get to a review some people may request something
more verbose.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:42 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I think now we need
Hi,
I read today all this thread because this subject is very interesting.
I know I am coming very late so I don't want to re-ignite the discussion again
Just to put a word
I have some doubts about the TraitsImpl approach, as opposed to the pImpl
approach.
On one side the use of template can
Brock Peabody wrote:
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Don't know where to start...
Greek and Roman mythology?
[...]
Other ideas:
Atlas
ATLAS: Automatically Tuned Linear Algebra Software
http://math-atlas.sourceforge.net/
f.
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At 07:30 PM 8/6/2003, Joel de Guzman wrote:
Beman Dawes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
At 10:54 AM 8/5/2003, Brock Peabody wrote:
I don't know much about other GUI systems but win32
and MFC. I think we can try to define the low-level
layer using win32 and/or MFC as the starting point.
If
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
That might be a better way to go. I just don't know
enough about GUI
systems other than MFC to be able to envision what a
scheme like that
would look like or if it would succeed. You might
save a lot of work
coming up with a single low-level
Perhaps Perseus, who slew the Medusa, the snake-haired monster of
so frightful an aspect that no living thing could behold her without
being turned into stone.
Perseus avoid being turned to stone by clever use of indirection --
he avoided looking directly at Medusa, instead looking only at her
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 11:33 AM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
[...]
To the method 1 pros list:
- More user friendly. If the user
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gregory Colvin
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:48 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
Why the S?
On Wednesday, Aug 6, 2003, at 16:37 America/Denver, E
--- Gregory Colvin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perhaps Perseus, who slew the Medusa, the
snake-haired monster of
so frightful an aspect that no living thing could
behold her without
being turned into stone.
Perseus avoid being turned to stone by clever use of
indirection --
he avoided
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We can get a simple sub-language running on top of
those few controls
quickly enough.
I agree. I was thinking about setting up a sourcesafe
project. What do you think about the name, boost::SGTL
(Standrad GUI Template Library)?
Eugene
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
That sounds good. What if we called the lower layer
boost::gui and the
upper layer boost::sgtl?
Agreed.
__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I wonder how much we will have to redo when we add
in support for say
Mac Os X or another *nix API. Is it going to be too
complex to develop
a single underlying code base that works on all of
them? Would we be
better off developing separate
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boost/files/
The name is boost_gui.zip. There is a ton of code,
but the interface
I think, your library has a lot of good stuff. However
it does need a major redesign to cleanly remove all
direct references to the
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:29 AM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
http
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
If we can keep our interface simple
it might be easiest
to just make the library an interface specification
which is implemented
totally independently for each target platform. Does
that seem
reasonable?
I agree.
I think we can have 2 layers.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:03 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: Re: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
If we can keep our
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
This saves us from having to find a representational
scheme that will
fit on top of an unknown number of platforms which
might not have
anything in common.
I think this is where we disagree. I prefer to find a
single low-level represntation
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:33 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: Re: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
This saves us from
- Original Message -
From: E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Boost mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Anyway I think I got the basic idea. The idea
At 02:39 AM 8/1/2003, Douglas Gregor wrote:
From: E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[snip]
template typename IT, typename PhysicalGuiLayer
class ListControl
[snip]
I'm coming in a bit late into this discussion, but I too am interested in
the outcome of this project.
I strongly dislike the
From: E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[snip]
template typename IT, typename PhysicalGuiLayer
class ListControl
[snip]
I'm coming in a bit late into this discussion, but I too am interested in
the outcome of this project.
I strongly dislike the PhysicalGuiLayer template parameter, for several
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Douglas Gregor
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:40 AM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
[..]
I believe that one bit that falls out of the above agrees 100
1) It buys us very little: generally template
parameters are useful when
more than one instantiation will be used within any
particular program. It
is highly unlikely that a program will support two
physical GUI layers
simultaneously,
I think that it is very likely. For examle you
--- Douglas Gregor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
template typename IT, typename PhysicalGuiLayer
class ListControl
I came with a name for this idiom, ImplTraits idiom.
template ... typename ImplTraits
class someclass
It is like the name of the pImpl idiom.
Eugene
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 1:23 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
--- Douglas Gregor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
template typename
Even if the implementation is parameterized by a
traits or other class,
we could still use a non template class in the
implementation to reduce
compile times, which is what I though the original
poster was trying to
say.
template ... typename ImplTraits class
some_edit_class :
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 3:31 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
Even if the implementation is parameterized by a
traits or other class
Here is a very simplified version of how this can
happen.
template typename Traits struct edit_imp {...};
struct edit {
template typename Traits edit_impTraits
make_gui() {...}
};
template typename Traits struct
gui_wrapper_base {
//some pure virtual
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:57 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
Here is a very simplified version of how this can
happen.
template
--- Brock Peabody [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Anyway I think I got the basic idea. The idea is
that
the GUI elements are classes defined on top of a
pImpl. Someone else creates the pImpl object and
passes it to the GUI elements classes. The GUI
elements then call pImpl methods do the
I really enjoyed discussing the library with you guys.
I think I am getting a bit close to what the library
should look like from my personal standpoint.
The main ideas come from the MFC's document/view
architecture, STL and present discussion.
The main building blocks of the libarary will be
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:00 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
boost::functionvoid,CRect positioner =
row( edit_1, combo_1
Does this make sense? I'm sorry if I am not
explaining this very well.
I'll see if I can dig up the documentation I wrote
for our programmers
here.
It makes a perfect sense. Thanks for the details. I
guess things like resizable dialog boxes are a natural
consequence of your design.
EG
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brock Peabody
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:16 AM
To: 'Boost mailing list'
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
It wasn't a great leap to progress further to:
typedef boost::mpl
Brock Peabody
Software Development Manager
NPC International
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Rob Lori
Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 5:56 PM
To: 'Boost mailing list'
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
-Original
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], E.
Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes
I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
library.
I personally would like such a facility to play well with wxWindows:
http://wxwindows.org/
and in particular the XRC resource system being developed there.
(see also
I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
library.
The main ideas are:
1. Create a portable template abstraction for standard
GUI/GDI elements and dialog boxes.
2. Design an iterator-like interface.
3. The most important goal is design a natural
connection between STL
On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:14:42 +0100, Alec Ross [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I personally would like such a facility to play well with wxWindows:
http://wxwindows.org/
and in particular the XRC resource system being developed there.
(see also the recent 'quasi-article' at:
I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
library.
The main ideas are:
1. Create a portable template abstraction for standard
GUI/GDI elements and dialog boxes.
2. Design an iterator-like interface.
3. The most important goal is design a natural
connection between STL containers and GUI
This sounds to me like the goals of the Whisper framework. Check out
Whisper 2 on source forge.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 11:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [boost] GUI/GDI
Do you mean that your librry is directed to MS Windows?
Mohammed
- Original Message -
From: E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
library
. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
library.
The main ideas are:
1. Create a portable template abstraction for
standard
GUI/GDI elements
to MS
Windows?
Mohammed
- Original Message -
From: E. Gladyshev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI
template
library.
The main ideas
, 2003 11:11 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
library.
The main ideas are:
1. Create a portable template abstraction for
standard
GUI/GDI elements and dialog boxes.
2. Design an iterator-like
I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template library.
I suggest that you build it around Boost nit buildingit then Bosstifing it
later.
Mohammed
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E. Gladyshev wrote:
The library itself would be portable, the physical
layer (Win32 or else) is specified as a data type with
a bunch of static functions. It is similar to data
type traits in STL. In other words the physical layer
is a data type that is used as a template parameter.
If you need
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