Brock Peabody wrote:
> Method 1 - common underlying representation method
>
> layer 1 - target GUI API
>
> layer 2 - low level GUI API interface wrapper. There is one
> implementation of this wrapper that compiles for all target platforms,
> using standard cross-platform development methods. This
Since OS X uses X for the GUI, I think it's covered by "Windows and X".
This isn't really true. it is POSSIBLE for you to run applications with
an X GUI on OSX, but it involves using an X server, and the
applications don't really look and feel like mac ones. The Macintosh
has it's own completel
--- Joel de Guzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No mailing list? IMO, I would highly suggest a
> mailing
> list instead of a web based forum. Easier to
> post-to,
> maintain, archive, etc.
Good point! The Design mailing list has been setup.
It'll take up to 24 hours to be activated.
Eugene
___
"E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --- John Torjo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Basically, I don't think you should be concerned
> > about data at such a low
> > level.
> >
> > I think there should be a layer that represents gui
> > objects (windows,
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Rainer Deyke
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 12:32 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
> Brock Peabody wrote:
> >
On Friday, August 8, 2003, at 2:25 PM, David B. Held wrote:
"Beman Dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
At 07:30 PM 8/6/2003, Joel de Guzman wrote:
[...]
And don't forget the Mac ;-)
[...]
I know that Windows and X Window are major API's that follow very
different
E. Gladyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The notus project has been setup on sf.
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/notus
> It has several public forums including the Design
> forum.
No mailing list? IMO, I would highly suggest a mailing
list instead of a web based forum. Easier to post-to,
mainta
"Beman Dawes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> At 07:30 PM 8/6/2003, Joel de Guzman wrote:
> [...]
> > And don't forget the Mac ;-)
>
> [...]
> I know that Windows and X Window are major API's that
> follow very different flow-of-control models. Is the Mac
> sufficie
"Paul Hamilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> > Since OS X uses X for the GUI, I think it's covered by "Windows
> > and X".
>
> This isn't really true. it is POSSIBLE for you to run applications
> with an X GUI on OSX, but it involves using an X server, and the
> a
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 5:21 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> --- Bohdan <[EMAIL PROTEC
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >
> > Oh, and I really want the ability to select layers
> 1 and 2 at runtime,
> in
> > a
> > single place in my code, on a per top-level window
> basis.
>
> Let's just try to get it working first. I don't
> doubt that we could do
> this but is it
"Daryle Walker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [...]
> Yikes!! The "X" in "Mac OS X" has NOTHING to do with X-Windows!
I didn't mean to suggest that it does.
> (The Mac's "X" is for the Roman numeral for "ten".) Macs use an
> independent GUI API. But, like Window
"E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> > We can get a simple sub-language running on top of
> > those few controls
> > quickly enough.
>
> I agree. I was thinking about setting up a sourcesafe
> project. What do yo
The notus project has been setup on sf.
http://sourceforge.net/projects/notus
It has several public forums including the Design
forum.
Please feel free to move this discussion there.
I'll be posting a detailed proposal of basic design
ideas soon which we can hopefully use as a starting
point for d
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >
> > > What about simple boost::gui ?
> >
> > I would like to have an unique name without the
> boost
> > prefix.
>
> I think the boost namespace is a requirement for any
> boost library.
Sorry, I didn't mean to put the library out of the
boost n
"Brock Peabody" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> That sounds good. What if we called the lower layer
> > >> boost::gui and the
> > >> upper layer boost::sgtl?
>
> It stands for 'standard'. Maybe that's a little pretentious for us at
> this early stage :) gtl wo
--- Bohdan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 2. Finally your lib may become non-template ( i mean
> cpp files) ...
If it becomes not-template, I'll stop working on it
:). cpp files are allowed for the layer 1 code and
compilation-time optimization wrappers only, that's
it! Both has little to do with
> It might not be too hard to make the GUI objects 'serialize' themselves
> into a native resource file but this would be useless without something
> to convert a resource file back into C++ code. Something like this
> could be written on top of a pure C++ solution with the help of a
> serializat
Trying to continue GUI libraries review ( FLTK, WxWin )
Any ideas about VCF ( visual component framework ) sourceforge
project ?
Its original idea was taken from Borland C++ Builder.
Unfortunately, this IDE and VCL (pascal GUI library used
by Delphi and c++ builder) doesn't allow to use c++
fe
--- Rainer Deyke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For a GUI library to be useful to me, it would need
> to support custom
> physical GUI layers. I would then write my own
[...]
> full-screen multimedia. I
> realize that my needs are unusual, and boost::gui
> may be unable to
> accomodate them.
It s
Beman Dawes wrote:
> Always hard to tell without seeing a firm proposal, but for me
> a PhysicalGuiLayer template parameter would probably evoke an "over
> my
> dead body" response. I think the reasons Doug gives in his message
> are just the tip of the iceberg, but they are plenty good enough to
It's obviously wrong to say that compile time performance does not matter.
On the other hand, it's not wise to optimize the compile or run time
performance of a library prematurely - start with the most beautiful design
and make it more ugly as necessary :)
I think we're drifting far from the topi
"E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> --- David Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> "E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> Is MPL a modern TEMPLATE library, in your opinion?
>> I ask because compilation time is a very serious
>> issue in the design
>> of MPL.
>
> In my opinion
--- David Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> Is MPL a modern TEMPLATE library, in your opinion?
> I ask because compilation time is a very serious
> issue in the design
> of MPL.
In my opinion MPL is a great example of a tool for
creating modern
"E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think that any industry standard TEMPLATE library
> should be designed in terms of modern C++. The
> compilation time should NOT be considred as an issue.
Is MPL a modern TEMPLATE library, in your opinion?
I ask because compilation time is a very se
--- Douglas Paul Gregor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, E. Gladyshev wrote:
> Because one might use multiple threading models in a
> single program? Since
> we already have a boost::threads design to compare
> against, could you
> explain how the ImplTraits idiom would improve it?
On Fri, 1 Aug 2003, E. Gladyshev wrote:
> > Pimpl definitely has its place.
>
> I agree, but boost::threads and boost::gui would be
> much better of with ImplTraits, in my opinion.
Because one might use multiple threading models in a single program? Since
we already have a boost::threads design to
> Pimpl definitely has its place.
I agree, but boost::threads and boost::gui would be
much better of with ImplTraits, in my opinion.
> If you buy Doug G.'s argument that no application
> will use two
> GUIs at once
No I don't buy Doug's argument at all.
Here is an example.
//customize the edit
"E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Not quite. pImpl is really bad when you have
>> multiple interacting
>> concrete types. I think you'll find yourself doing
>> a lot of
>> polymorphic_downcast<>s.
>
> Another good point against the pImpl idiom. I'd
> suggest to overwrite some of the
> Not quite. pImpl is really bad when you have
> multiple interacting
> concrete types. I think you'll find yourself doing
> a lot of
> polymorphic_downcast<>s.
Another good point against the pImpl idiom. I'd
suggest to overwrite some of the boost libaries that
use the pImpl thing. It is not l
"Douglas Gregor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 3) There is an alternative solution: Boost.Threads presents a single,
> non-template interface to the user and hides all of the platform-specific
> details using the pImpl idiom. The same approach can be applied here, and I
> think we'll find that
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of David Abrahams
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 6:31 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
[...]
>
> I think so. See Boost.
"Drazen DOTLIC" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Could you please be more specific? What do you mean by "domain
> specific"?
Specific to the job of creating dialog layouts.
See Czarnecki & Eisenecker, "Generative Programming" for a thorough
treatment of DSLs.
--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www
"Brock Peabody" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> -Original Message-
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On Behalf Of David Abrahams
>> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:54 PM
>> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Subject: [bo
Could you please be more specific? What do you mean by "domain
specific"?
> -Original Message-
> From: David Abrahams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 30. jul 2003 21:54
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of David Abrahams
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:54 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> Has anyone given thought to the
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 1:27 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
> > If a decision is based on informati
I believe that MS has. They have CDHtmlDialog in MFC.
You can script dialog layouts just like web pages.
Eugene
--- David Abrahams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Has anyone given thought to the design of a
> domain-specific
> sublanguage for dialog layout specification?
>
> --
> Dave Abraha
Been there, done that, twice, and don't care to do it again ;->
On Wednesday, Jul 30, 2003, at 13:53 America/Denver, David Abrahams
wrote:
Has anyone given thought to the design of a domain-specific
sublanguage for dialog layout specification?
--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulti
Has anyone given thought to the design of a domain-specific
sublanguage for dialog layout specification?
--
Dave Abrahams
Boost Consulting
www.boost-consulting.com
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> If a decision is based on information that cannot be
> known at
> compile-time then you must make that decision at
> run-time.
How do you decide what information can and what cannot
be know at compile-time. For instance if you want to
use an external fullblown scripting definition of the
GUI lay
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 11:57 AM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
> > Every design will have both ru
> Every design will have both run-time and
> compile-time aspects.
I agree. Where do you draw the boundary? What is the
correct mix of these two aspects? That's the tradeoff
I was talking about.
Eugene
__
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> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 10:50 AM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
> > >...[compile-time or run-time?
> >...[compile-time or run-time?] I don't know what
> is the best way to go.
>
> It is always hard to know the best way to go if you
> don't know where you
> are going.
>
> A GUI/GDI library might fill one or more needs:
...
> [Controlling the look-and-feel]
Setting aside the poster's philosop
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Beman Dawes
> Sent: Wednesday, July 30, 2003 7:09 AM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
> At 02:24 AM 7/30/2003, E. Gladyshev w
At 02:24 AM 7/30/2003, E. Gladyshev wrote:
>...[compile-time or run-time?] I don't know what is the best way to go.
It is always hard to know the best way to go if you don't know where you
are going.
A GUI/GDI library might fill one or more needs:
1) A conceptually clean library, easy-to-use,
> But localisation should be orthogonal to the GUI
> library. By all means
> let's have (eventually) a resource loading library
> that understands
> native resource files, but there's no reason for
> that library to be on
> intimate terms with the GUI library
Localization is not just changing a
Gregory Colvin wrote:
On Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003, at 16:02 America/Denver, Brock Peabody wrote:
Why would it be necessary to reload anything besides the localized text?
That wouldn't be too hard:
gui_application app = row(localized_text(name_text_id),
edit(&employe
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Gregory Colvin
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 1:15 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
> On Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003, at 12:25 Ameri
"Bohdan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>BTW, there were some talks about second review of declined serialization library
>which can be used for resource files ... is this library being developed or it
>is "dead" ?
I'm still working on it and hope to upload an updated/evolved version shortly (two
On Tuesday, Jul 29, 2003, at 12:25 America/Denver, Brock Peabody wrote:
...
I don't think custom resource files would be any easier to edit that
inline C++ code. I think they would be much less easy to edit and
read.
It's been a few years, but the last time I was writing a GUI application
for an
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Bohdan
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2003 11:29 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
> Hi,
>
> Looks like that most ideas about G
Hi,
Looks like that most ideas about GUI library are spinning around spirit-like
interface. What about simple resource files ? XML? Despite this approach
is old enough, it has a lot of advantages :
1. Resouce files can be easily edited by hand, contrary to "inline"
GUI-building code.
I totally agree with your statements besides javascript, win32 & .NET
because you know better this stuff than I do. The only platform dependent
utils you need is stylish fonts, locales, frames, rectangles, windows &
menus in the end.
A spinbox is basically a lineedit with 2 button; a combobox is
Do I detect some sarcasm here? I thought it was fairly clear why I mentioned
javascript, win32, etc. Did I say something you agree with? Something
obvious? I can't tell.
"Philippe A. Bouchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> It smells like what I was saying in pa
It smells like what I was saying in part besides the javascript, win32 API &
.NET. What is the definition of a widget? It is basically the visual
representation of a container. In ten years from now, I expect to cout my
application to the screen:
typedef tree >, ...> >, ...> >, ...> > myapplica
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 6:34 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] Re: GUI/GDI template library
>
> I agree that one can derive other require
> 3. I believe almost everything can be done using the
> following ingredients:
> a. The ability to create, destroy, size,
> position, show and hide a
> rectangular window with no children and no
> decorations.
> b. The ability to draw an image (bitmap, png,
> etc.) at a particular
> poin
I am very interested in this project, and would be willing to devote a
considerable amount of time to it, depending on how it evolves. (Please
forgive me if I focus exclusively on GUI objects, and ignore the connection
with STL-containers of non-GUI objects.)
I believe that it is possible to creat
> Uh. I would not recommend inheriting from STL. I
> think that template
> policies would be rather more appropriate solution:
I agree with that.
> myWindow.create_widget
>(myapp::ENUM_ID_LIST_OF_ITEMS,
Just a note.
Ideally, the library won't have to deal with the
numeric control ID's. You cre
Philippe A. Bouchard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> // ScrollViews, ButtonGroups, ListBox, ...:
>> typedef list container;
> struct container : list { ... };
>
Uh. I would not recommend inheriting from STL. I think that template
policies would be rather more appropriate solution:
typedef boost::g
"Bohdan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> "E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
>> library.
>>
>> The main ideas are:
>> 1. Create a portable template abstraction for standard
>> GUI/GDI elements and dialog bo
"E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
> library.
>
> The main ideas are:
> 1. Create a portable template abstraction for standard
> GUI/GDI elements and dialog boxes.
> 2. Design an "iterator-like" interface.
> Microsoft has a Windows Template Library, WTL, for
> Windows specifically,
> which is template-based but which they barely
> support for their VC++ users.
The main point of the proposed library is not a
wrapper. WTL is just a Win32 wrapper.
The main idea is to simplify the use of STL container
Edward Diener wrote:
[...]
> Microsoft has a Windows Template Library, WTL, for Windows specifically,
> which is template-based but which they barely support for their VC++
> users. There are other cross-platform frameworks which seek to encapsulate
> GUI/GDI in classes but few of them are templa
E. Gladyshev wrote:
> I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
> library.
>
> The main ideas are:
> 1. Create a portable template abstraction for standard
> GUI/GDI elements and dialog boxes.
> 2. Design an "iterator-like" interface.
> 3. The most important goal is design a natural
> conne
E. Gladyshev wrote:
> I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
> library.
>
> The main ideas are:
> 1. Create a portable template abstraction for standard
> GUI/GDI elements and dialog boxes.
> 2. Design an "iterator-like" interface.
> 3. The most important goal is design a natural
> con
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