> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 1:10 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
[...]
>
> > layer 1 - an abstracti
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> It stands for 'standard'. Maybe that's a little
> pretentious for us at
> this early stage :)
I think they called it STL before it became a
standard.
> gtl would probably be better.
I thought about this name, but I think it is already
taken, GTL (Gr
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Beman Dawes
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 9:36 AM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
[...]
> Given the major differences betw
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 9:06 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: Re: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PR
Could this discussion be moved to another list please? It's
really filling up the list and at this stage it doesn't seem to
belong on the boost list..
I'd like to second the proposal. It sounds like their is lots of interest
and it is an large-scale project, so a separate list is a good idea.
Dar
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > 1. The layer 1 must appear as one threaded API
> that
> > has a message queue (ala win32). In other words
> all
> > calls from layer 1 to a library object has to be
> done
> > in the context of the thread that created the
> object
> > (ala win32).
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Joel de Guzman
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 5:31 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
[..]
> > Given the major differences betw
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:58 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROT
- Original Message -
From: "E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Boost mailing list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
> I'll be working on setting up the Notus (code name
Beman Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 10:54 AM 8/5/2003, Brock Peabody wrote:
>
> >> I don't know much about other GUI systems but win32
> >> and MFC. I think we can try to define the low-level
> >> layer using win32 and/or MFC as the starting point.
> >> If we cover these two, it'll be
On Wednesday, Aug 6, 2003, at 17:36 America/Denver, Brock Peabody wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Gregory Colvin
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:48 PM
To: Boost mailing list
Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
Why the S?
On Wednesday, Aug 6, 2003
Hi Eugene,
I know this is a little late ;), but I've been so busy lately.
I took a look at guist.zip.
Well, I have to say that I don't like it :(
Basically, I don't think you should be concerned about data at such a low
level.
I think there should be a layer that represents gui objects (windows
--- Pietrobon Marcello <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Also, IMHO, I would keep in mind that programmers
> successfully use the templates
> only after some experience with a more common
> programming.
> I wouldn't start to set up a standard keeping an eye
> only to 'real' programmers
> and scare a
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> cycle or two of our recursive (I thought they called
> it iterative?)
They do call it iterative. However in the C++ world
iteration is like enumeration while recursion is a
process where typically the input for the next call is
derived from the resu
Gregory Colvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Perhaps Perseus, who slew the Medusa, the snake-haired monster of
> "so frightful an aspect that no living thing could behold her without
> being turned into stone."
>
> Perseus avoid being turned to stone by clever use of indirection --
> he avoided loo
On Wed, 6 Aug 2003 18:35:45 -0700 (PDT), E. Gladyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
It stands for 'standard'. Maybe that's a little
pretentious for us at
this early stage :)
I think they called it STL before it became a
standard.
gtl would probably be better.
I thought about this name, but I think i
E. Gladyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I don't know much about other GUI systems but win32
> and MFC. I think we can try to define the low-level
> layer using win32 and/or MFC as the starting point.
Please, do NOT use MFC. Just native Win32 API as a starting point. MFC
is 1) not available on m
At 10:54 AM 8/5/2003, Brock Peabody wrote:
>> I don't know much about other GUI systems but win32
>> and MFC. I think we can try to define the low-level
>> layer using win32 and/or MFC as the starting point.
>> If we cover these two, it'll be a good start and prove
>> of concept.
>
>Actually for a
--- "E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> --- Brock Peabody
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> > We can get a simple sub-language running on top of
> > those few controls
> > quickly enough.
>
> I agree. I was thinking about setting up a
> sourcesafe
> project.
Sorry, I meant sourceforge.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 5:08 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECT
- Original Message -
From: "Brock Peabody" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Do you think we will be OK restricting this library to the more
> conformant compilers?
That should be fine. Compiler workarounds can often be added later, and you
shouldn't need to worry about these from the start. In fact,
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > Don't know where to start...
> > Greek and Roman mythology?
> > 'Aquilo' the north wind, the ruler of the winds.
> > 'Notus' the south wind
> > 'Flora' goddess of flowers and spring.
> > 'Arcadia' a district of the Peloponnesus, the home
> of
> > pa
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 10:33 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
[...]
> Don't know where to start...
&
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I think now we need to decide which
> *nix GUI API to use
> and get started on a proof of concept.
I am currently working with win32 only. I can take
care of this one. I think it'll be nice to have
support for X as well.
> Maybe we should decide whi
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Bronek Kozicki
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:06 AM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: Re: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
> E. Gladyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]&
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> For an exaggerated example, imagine that we design
> and implement layer
> one knowing nothing about any GUI APIs besides
> Win32. We'll probably
> have to make a lot of revisions if we then want to
> make that scheme fit
> over a *nix GUI API.
I a
>The confusion is that your interpretation (more
>traditional) of a modern GUI framework is a bit
>different from notus. We are not concerned with
>building low-level controls. The low-level
>implementation is basically proveded by the platform
>(Mac, win32, etc.). Notus is just going to be usin
--- Joel de Guzman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> E. Gladyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Since GTL is already taken, how about GTF (GUI
> > Template Framework)?
>
> Can't we be more imaginative than that? Aren't we
> all
> already saturated with acronyms and acronyms and yet
> more
> acronyms
E. Gladyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>> It stands for 'standard'. Maybe that's a little
>> pretentious for us at
>> this early stage :) gtl would probably be better.
>> I suspect that if we
>> get to a review some people may request something
At 07:30 PM 8/6/2003, Joel de Guzman wrote:
>Beman Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> At 10:54 AM 8/5/2003, Brock Peabody wrote:
>>
>> >> I don't know much about other GUI systems but win32
>> >> and MFC. I think we can try to define the low-level
>> >> layer using win32 and/or MFC as the star
Brock Peabody wrote:
On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
Don't know where to start...
Greek and Roman mythology?
[...]
Other ideas:
Atlas
ATLAS: Automatically Tuned Linear Algebra Software
http://math-atlas.sourceforge.net/
f.
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Hi,
I read today all this thread because this subject is very interesting.
I know I am coming very late so I don't want to re-ignite the discussion again
Just to put a word
I have some doubts about the TraitsImpl approach, as opposed to the pImpl
approach.
On one side the use of template can give
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 3:42 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTEC
--- John Torjo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Basically, I don't think you should be concerned
> about data at such a low
> level.
>
> I think there should be a layer that represents gui
> objects (windows, views,
> controls, dcs, etc.), and ON TOP OF THIS, have
> representations of data,
> based
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 11:33 AM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
[...]
> To the method 1 pros list:
&g
Perhaps Perseus, who slew the Medusa, the snake-haired monster of
"so frightful an aspect that no living thing could behold her without
being turned into stone."
Perseus avoid being turned to stone by clever use of indirection --
he avoided looking directly at Medusa, instead looking only at her
re
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> That might be a better way to go. I just don't know
> enough about GUI
> systems other than MFC to be able to envision what a
> scheme like that
> would look like or if it would succeed. You might
> save a lot of work
> coming up with a single low-
I'll be working on setting up the Notus (code name)
project on sf tomorrow. I think that I've got some
solid ideas on the basic design (I have been thinking
on the design for a while before I posted the idea to
the boost list and this discussion helped me
immensely). I'll present it on the project'
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Gregory Colvin
> Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2003 4:48 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
> Why the S?
>
> On Wednesday,
--- Gregory Colvin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Perhaps Perseus, who slew the Medusa, the
> snake-haired monster of
> "so frightful an aspect that no living thing could
> behold her without
> being turned into stone."
>
> Perseus avoid being turned to stone by clever use of
> indirection --
> he
Why the S?
On Wednesday, Aug 6, 2003, at 16:37 America/Denver, E. Gladyshev wrote:
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
That sounds good. What if we called the lower layer
boost::gui and the
upper layer boost::sgtl?
Agreed.
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--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> It stands for 'standard'. Maybe that's a little
> pretentious for us at
> this early stage :) gtl would probably be better.
> I suspect that if we
> get to a review some people may request something
> more verbose.
>
Since GTL is already taken,
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> I wonder how much we will have to redo when we add
> in support for say
> Mac Os X or another *nix API. Is it going to be too
> complex to develop
> a single underlying code base that works on all of
> them? Would we be
> better off developing separ
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> That sounds good. What if we called the lower layer
> boost::gui and the
> upper layer boost::sgtl?
Agreed.
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--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> We can get a simple sub-language running on top of
> those few controls
> quickly enough.
I agree. I was thinking about setting up a sourcesafe
project. What do you think about the name, boost::SGTL
(Standrad GUI Template Library)?
Eugene
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 2:33 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: Re: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PR
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> This saves us from having to find a representational
> scheme that will
> fit on top of an unknown number of platforms which
> might not have
> anything in common.
>
I think this is where we disagree. I prefer to find a
single low-level represnt
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 1:03 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: Re: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> If we can keep our interface simple
> it might be easiest
> to just make the library an interface specification
> which is implemented
> totally independently for each target platform. Does
> that seem
> reasonable?
I agree.
I think we can have 2 la
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 11:29 AM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PRO
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boost/files/
>
> The name is boost_gui.zip. There is a ton of code,
> but the interface
I think, your library has a lot of good stuff. However
it does need a major redesign to cleanly remove all
direct references to
At 02:39 AM 8/1/2003, Douglas Gregor wrote:
>From: "E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>[snip]
>> template < typename IT, typename PhysicalGuiLayer >
>> class ListControl
>[snip]
>
>I'm coming in a bit late into this discussion, but I too am interested in
>the outcome of this project.
>
>I strongly
- Original Message -
From: "E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Boost mailing list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
> --- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wro
--- Brock Peabody <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > Anyway I think I got the basic idea. The idea is
> that
> > the GUI elements are classes defined on top of a
> > pImpl. Someone else creates the pImpl object and
> > passes it to the GUI elements classes. The GUI
> > elements then call pImpl meth
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 4:57 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
> > Here is a very simplified version
> Here is a very simplified version of how this can
> happen.
>
> template struct edit_imp {...};
>
>struct edit {
>
> template edit_imp
> make_gui() {...}
>};
>
>template struct
> gui_wrapper_base {
>
> //some pure virtual functions
>};
>
>template
> str
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 3:31 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
> > Even if the implementation is param
> Even if the implementation is parameterized by a
> traits or other class,
> we could still use a non template class in the
> implementation to reduce
> compile times, which is what I though the original
> poster was trying to
> say.
>
> template <... typename ImplTraits> class
> some_edit_class
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 1:23 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> --- Douglas Gregor <[EMAIL PRO
--- Douglas Gregor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > template < typename IT, typename PhysicalGuiLayer
> >
> > class ListControl
I came with a name for this idiom, ImplTraits idiom.
template <... typename ImplTraits >
class someclass
It is like the name of the pImpl idiom.
Eugene
_
> 1) It buys us very little: generally template
> parameters are useful when
> more than one instantiation will be used within any
> particular program. It
> is highly unlikely that a program will support two
> physical GUI layers
> simultaneously,
I think that it is very likely. For examle
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Douglas Gregor
> Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 12:40 AM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: Re: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
[..]
> I believe that one bit that falls out of
From: "E. Gladyshev" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[snip]
> template < typename IT, typename PhysicalGuiLayer >
> class ListControl
[snip]
I'm coming in a bit late into this discussion, but I too am interested in
the outcome of this project.
I strongly dislike the PhysicalGuiLayer template parameter, for s
Brock Peabody
Software Development Manager
NPC International
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Rob & Lori
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 5:56 PM
> To: 'Boost mailing list'
> Subject: RE:
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Brock Peabody
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 9:16 AM
> To: 'Boost mailing list'
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> It wasn't a great leap to
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 5:27 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
> It makes a perfect sense. Thanks for the details
> Does this make sense? I'm sorry if I am not
> explaining this very well.
> I'll see if I can dig up the documentation I wrote
> for our programmers
> here.
It makes a perfect sense. Thanks for the details. I
guess things like resizable dialog boxes are a natural
consequence of your design.
EG
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Monday, July 28, 2003 1:00 PM
> To: Boost mailing list
> Subject: RE: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
>
>
> > boost::function positioner =
&g
> boost::function positioner =
> row( edit_1, combo_1, column( edit_2,
> some_static_text));
Interesing idea about a separate positioner object.
What are the row/column do exactly?
Eugene
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I'm using a library I developed here at work which I developed with the
goals of
1) hiding MFC
2) eliminating the repetitious and tedious nature of positioning and
manipulating various controls.
My library is far from boost ready (as it depends on other libraries of
mine and is only implemented f
Boost,
One idea worth considering would be to write a Boost library that produces
markup (XML or HTML).
This really amounts to 'moving the problem', as now you need to interface
with a browser somehow, but it uses that browser to encapsulate the
aforementioned, gnarly, platform variations.
If th
On Sat, 26 Jul 2003 09:14:42 +0100, Alec Ross <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I personally would like such a facility to play well with wxWindows:
http://wxwindows.org/
and in particular the XRC resource system being developed there.
(see also the recent 'quasi-article' at:
http://wilcoxd.com/wiki/
> I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
> library.
>
> The main ideas are:
> 1. Create a portable template abstraction for standard
> GUI/GDI elements and dialog boxes.
> 2. Design an "iterator-like" interface.
> 3. The most important goal is design a natural
> connection between S
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, E.
Gladyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
>I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
>library.
I personally would like such a facility to play well with wxWindows:
http://wxwindows.org/
and in particular the XRC resource system being developed there.
(see
E. Gladyshev wrote:
The library itself would be portable, the physical
layer (Win32 or else) is specified as a data type with
a bunch of static functions. It is similar to data
type traits in STL. In other words the physical layer
is a data type that is used as a template parameter.
If you need t
> I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template library.
I suggest that you build it around Boost nit buildingit then Bosstifing it
later.
Mohammed
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Whisper2 is more like an application framework, and
it's quite huge and Mac/Win only. My suggestion is to
provide a relatively simple way to connect STL
containers to the standard GUI elements and deploy the
container/iterator paradigm to the GUI/GDI elements
themselves. Something very light and
Sorry, forgot to put the base class in.
// base for GDI objects, like bitmaps, imagelists,
pens, etc.
//==
template< typename T, typename Tr >
class GdiObj
{
public:
typedef Tr Traits;
typedef T Hnd;
inline GidObj()
The library itself would be portable, the physical
layer (Win32 or else) is specified as a data type with
a bunch of static functions. It is similar to data
type traits in STL. In other words the physical layer
is a data type that is used as a template parameter.
If you need to adopt the GUI/GDI t
Do you mean that your librry is directed to MS Windows?
Mohammed
- Original Message -
From: E. Gladyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 9:11 PM
Subject: [boost] GUI/GDI template library
> I was thinking about designing a GUI/GDI template
> libra
This sounds to me like the goals of the Whisper framework. Check out
Whisper 2 on source forge.
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of E. Gladyshev
> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 11:11 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [boost] GUI/GDI te
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