Re: Collapse Chapter 4 - Chaco Canyon

2006-09-22 Thread jdiebremse
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Klaus Stock [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hm, wait. Little evidence of city life and was clearly at the heart of an extensive trading network appear contradictory to me. Well, at least when I consider other historical examples of how trading opportunity and/or activity

Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Alberto Monteiro
I don't know if this has already been suggested, but I have recently learned the programming language R, and it seems that it's exactly what you would like to use to teach your kids how to use a computer: (a) it's free and available for _all_ systems [M$, Linux, Mac] (b) it's simple to use (c)

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Klaus Stock
I don't know if this has already been suggested, but I have recently learned the programming language R, and it seems that it's exactly what you would like to use to teach your kids how to use a computer: (a) it's free and available for _all_ systems [M$, Linux, Mac] How about the good

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Alberto Monteiro
Klaus Stock suggested: OTOH, on more modern computers, one might teach the child OOA and OOP with some Smalltalk system. From... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk Because of that the meaning of Smalltalk expressions using binary messages can be different from their traditional

Re: Whose Ox is Gored?

2006-09-22 Thread Gibson Jonathan
On Sep 20, 2006, at 9:02 PM, jdiebremse wrote: --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Gibson Jonathan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My problem with this particular situation is a serious lack of evenhandedness shows deepening flaws. For almost two decades I've watched conservative politicians court and skirt

Re: Whose Ox is Gored?

2006-09-22 Thread Nick Arnett
On 9/18/06, Dave Land [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On the eve of the 2004 election, a liberal Christian pastor in Pasadena preached (what is reportedly) a highly political anti-war and anti-poverty sermon with the result that the IRS is threatening to take away the church's tax-exempt status. I

Re: Whose Ox is Gored?

2006-09-22 Thread Nick Arnett
In case anybody wants the wording of the IRS code: 'prohibits these organizations from participating in, or intervening in (including the publishing or distributing of statements), any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.' It seems as though a

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Klaus Stock
Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Klaus Stock suggested: OTOH, on more modern computers, one might teach the child OOA and OOP with some Smalltalk system. From... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk Because of that the meaning of Smalltalk expressions using

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread David Brin
Hi brinellers! Glad to see you still in business! I am very sorry to have neglected you in favor of that darned, time-consuming blog. http://www.davidbrin.blogspot.com/ In part because the political issues are so important/urgent right now that I'll grab any influence where I can get it. Of

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Gibson Jonathan
Although number one, M$oft, could be done with some public pressure - or Apple doing it first - my vote is Four: 4) In order to keep using those textbooks (like my son’s) that still have TRY IT IN BASIC exercises, one reader had a fantastically simple suggestion. A turn-key web site! “For

Re: 9/11 conspiracies (WAS RE: What should we believe when there is no reliab...

2006-09-22 Thread Dave Land
On Sep 20, 2006, at 8:20 PM, Charlie Bell wrote: On 21/09/2006, at 1:13 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: On 9/20/06, Charlie Bell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But it's often used wrongly, to state that the probabilitical nature of scientific proof means we can't be certain of some things. Hey, you

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Dave Land
Hi, WHILE we're on the subject of ancient programming languages AND their relative merits, we might as well dip into that deep well of wisdom regarding programming that poured forth from the nimble fingers of Edsger Dijkstra: How do we tell truths that might hurt?

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread David Brin
For those of you who are thinking about implementing an online BASIC interpreter, here's one that's already running: http://www.pachesoft.com/rockerferbasic/ This is a great idea. But need to make a list of attributes that such an implementation would need. 1. A good welcome page that gave

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Alberto Monteiro
Dave Land wrote: PS: The Good Doctor's eulogy for BASIC is mentioned in the Maturity section of the Wikipedia entry for BASIC: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC Hmmm... http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=BASICaction=history ... who is Dland? :-) Now do the proper homework and

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Andrew Crystall
On 22 Sep 2006 at 8:22, David Brin wrote: Only a small minority seemed at all interested in even looking at my core idea, which was how to create a nice, comfortable starting point for millions of kids, so they could use their computers to do a little COMPUTING for mild classroom

Re: 9/11 conspiracies (WAS RE: What should we believe when there is no reliab...

2006-09-22 Thread bemmzim
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 10:47 PM Subject: Re: 9/11 conspiracies (WAS RE: What should we believe when there is no reliab... On 21/09/2006, at 12:21 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The similarity is a fact. The

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Ronn!Blankenship
At 10:11 AM Friday 9/22/2006, Klaus Stock wrote: OTOH, consider the following Smalltalk code: x := 1 / 3. x := 3 * x. x inspect. Common sense tells us that the result is 0.999 - but Smalltalk insists on 1. Funny, that's exactly the example many books used 30-odd years ago to

Re: 9/11 conspiracies (WAS RE: What should we believe when there is no reliab...

2006-09-22 Thread William T Goodall
On 22 Sep 2006, at 10:21PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But with 9/11, autism/vaccine crankery, creationism, alternative medicine, perpetual motion and so on, we're seeing groups that either corrupt this relationship and the nature of science, or just ignore or dismiss it entirely. These

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Charlie Bell
On 23/09/2006, at 1:11 AM, Klaus Stock wrote: OTOH, consider the following Smalltalk code: x := 1 / 3. x := 3 * x. x inspect. Common sense tells us that the result is 0.999 - but Smalltalk insists on 1. Um, .9* *is* 1. Charlie

Re: 9/11 conspiracies (WAS RE: What should we believe when there is no reliab...

2006-09-22 Thread Charlie Bell
On 23/09/2006, at 7:21 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The relationship between fact and theory (or maybe data and hypothesis) is dynamic and not easily seperated. So is it a fact that evolution occurs because of natural selection or is that a theory? After all the data to support

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Ronn!Blankenship
At 08:20 PM Friday 9/22/2006, Charlie Bell wrote: On 23/09/2006, at 1:11 AM, Klaus Stock wrote: OTOH, consider the following Smalltalk code: x := 1 / 3. x := 3 * x. x inspect. Common sense tells us that the result is 0.999 - but Smalltalk insists on 1. Um, .9* *is* 1.

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Charlie Bell
On 23/09/2006, at 11:52 AM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 08:20 PM Friday 9/22/2006, Charlie Bell wrote: On 23/09/2006, at 1:11 AM, Klaus Stock wrote: OTOH, consider the following Smalltalk code: x := 1 / 3. x := 3 * x. x inspect. Common sense tells us that the result is 0.999

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Ronn!Blankenship
At 09:02 PM Friday 9/22/2006, Charlie Bell wrote: On 23/09/2006, at 11:52 AM, Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 08:20 PM Friday 9/22/2006, Charlie Bell wrote: On 23/09/2006, at 1:11 AM, Klaus Stock wrote: OTOH, consider the following Smalltalk code: x := 1 / 3. x := 3 * x. x inspect.

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread maru dubshinki
On 9/22/06, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . The Wikipedia entry for R is under GNU-S :-) Alberto Monteiro I hate to play the pedantic resident Wikipedia expert here, but it's actually at [[R (programming language)]] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_%28programming_language%29),

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread David Hobby
... Especially when you subtract two nearly equal numbers. Computers do, but do no programming environments take account of this, by marking recurring numbers as such? Anyone know how Mathematica works? -- Ronn! :) Ronn-- I believe it avoids decimal approximations unless they are

Re: Brin: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Ronn!Blankenship
At 10:14 PM Friday 9/22/2006, David Hobby wrote: ... Especially when you subtract two nearly equal numbers. Computers do, but do no programming environments take account of this, by marking recurring numbers as such? Anyone know how Mathematica works? -- Ronn! :) Ronn-- I believe it

Re: Bïrn: basic is evil, why it must be eradicated

2006-09-22 Thread Ronn!Blankenship
At 10:01 PM Friday 9/22/2006, maru dubshinki wrote: On 9/22/06, Alberto Monteiro [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . The Wikipedia entry for R is under GNU-S :-) Alberto Monteiro I hate to play the pedantic resident Wikipedia expert here, but it's actually at [[R (programming language)]]