Let's Roll
Friends, I know that other 9/11 analyses have been posted to this list, but I came across a one-hour documentary that concludes that it is more likely than not that the government was actually behind the attacks on Google Video tonight, and I hope that one or more of you has a chance to see it: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2023320890224991194 With this documentary, and other documents I've seen here and elsewhere, I'm increasingly convinced that, while it is true that a small group of men brought about the events that changed the world forever on the day after my birthday four and a quarter years ago, they did not have last names like bin Laden and Atta and Al Suqami, but Bush and Cheney and Rove. The words of Flight 93 Hero Todd Beamer are used to chilling effect at the end of the documentary, as the narrator calls viewers to join with Beamer in voting to stop those who have highjacked our country, whatever the cost -- Let's Roll to stop those who would destroy this nation in order to own it. I can't help but think that I'm turning into a relative in my family who has always been a JFK-assassination conspiracy freak as I become more and more interested in uncovering the truth of 9/11. But I'm not really that concerned about being that freaky relative: If a group of men with last names like Bush and Cheney and Rove in fact murdered 3000 of my fellow Americans to further their political aims, then I owe my son and his generation nothing less. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Dune
Maybe, my memory is faulty but I recall that the final volume of the Dune Chronicles was going to reveal the puppetry and machinations of the Face Dancers? HUNTERS OF DUNE Frank Herbert's epic continues Since 1986, millions of readers have longed to know the ending of the uncompleted story which began in Heretics of Dune and continued in Chapterhouse: Dune. Before his death, Frank Herbert wrote a detailed outline for his chronological grand finale, under the working title of Dune 7, and placed it along with additional material about Dune in a bank safe deposit box. There it remained hidden for ten years, and the great Dune chronicles remained unfinished. His son Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson have now completed this epic in two volumes, finally answering the questions Dune fans have been debating for almost two decades. Hunters of Dune is the first of two breathtaking journeys into the world of Dune as it remakes itself in a new form after its greatest crisis. Fleeing from the monstrous Honored Matres -- dark counterparts of the Bene Gesserit Sisterhood -- Duncan Idaho, a woman named Sheeana who can talk to sandworms, the military genius Bashar Miles Teg, and a group of desperate refugees explore the boundaries of the universe. Aboard their sophisticated no-ship, they have used long-stored cells to resurrect heroes and villains from the past including Paul Muad'dib and his love Chani, Lady Jessica, Thufir Hawat, even the traitor Doctor Yueh, all in preparation for a final confrontation with a mysterious outside Enemy so great it can destroy even the terrible Honored Matres. And, deep in the hold of their giant ship, the refugees carry the last surviving sandworms from devastated Arrakis, as they search the universe for a new Dune. The authors are currently writing Sandworms of Dune, which will complete the story. This grand conclusion brings together the great storylines and characters from the time of the Butlerian Jihad to the original Dune series and beyond. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Let's Roll
Dave Land wrote: I can't help but think that I'm turning into a relative in my family who has always been a JFK-assassination conspiracy freak as I become more and more interested in uncovering the truth of 9/11. I love conspiracies for entertainment value alone. (My interests lie in virtual/synthetic world creation and conspiracies are ripe elements for emotional story telling.) As an apprentice fiction writer, I felt played on 9/11. I didn't have to the words to describe it then, but now I think I could list a few things. But, this is one Conspiracy I'm actually afraid of examining too deeply. Look into the abyss and, well... -- --Max Battcher-- http://www.worldmaker.net/ History bleeds for tomorrow / for us to realize and never more follow blind --Machinae Supremacy, Deus Ex Machinae, Title Track ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Let's Roll
Dave Land wrote: I can't help but think that I'm turning into a relative in my family who has always been a JFK-assassination conspiracy freak as I become more and more interested in uncovering the truth of 9/11. It depends. Have you invested heavily in tinfoil yet? :) On a more serious note: The problem with such a theory is that no one will take it seriously. Even with the most concrete proof, with the barrel of the smoking gun still hot from the discharge, one would be hard-pressed to convince people of the truth. Some people won't believe that anyone would try a lie that big, and others are far too blinded by partisanship to see it. Hell, what's the percentage of folks who still think Iraq had something to do with 9/11? More than 40%, even after years of news that there's not one shred of credible evidence, I think? So even if you had proof, you're going to be a lonely voice in the wilderness. I'm not saying you should give up. You just have to be prepared for that is all. Jim ___ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Let's Roll
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Land I know that other 9/11 analyses have been posted to this list, but I came across a one-hour documentary that concludes that it is more likely than not that the government was actually behind the attacks I have not had a chance to look at this video yet but I have looked a several websites that claim the same thing. They all seem to hinge on the same thing: comments made under stress at the time of the attacks. Things like firefighters saying it sounded like a bomb going off or something like that. I have two major problems with this line of reasoning. One is that eyewitness accounts especially under times of extreme stress are notoriously unreliable. Also, people are always making comparisons like the above. How many times have you heard someone say a tornado sounded like a freight train. Does that mean that tornados don't exist and it really *was* a freight train that destroyed their house...? Or someone saying that the aftermath of a hurricane looked like a war zone. Does that mean that it really wasn't a hurricane but a super-secret battle that happened during that rain storm? So, some firefighters said over the radio that something sounded like a bomb. So what? That's probably what it did sound like. That doesn't make it a bomb. I was a huge JFK conspiracy nut when I was younger. I was absolutely positive that Lee Harvey Oswald was a patsy and that he had nothing to do with the assassination. Now, I think he did. Could there have been another gunman? Maybe. But probably not. - jmh ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Let's Roll
Horn, John wrote: [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Land I know that other 9/11 analyses have been posted to this list, but I came across a one-hour documentary that concludes that it is more likely than not that the government was actually behind the attacks I have not had a chance to look at this video yet but I have looked a several websites that claim the same thing. They all seem to hinge on the same thing: comments made under stress at the time of the attacks. Things like firefighters saying it sounded like a bomb going off or something like that. I have two major problems with this line of reasoning. One is that eyewitness accounts especially under times of extreme stress are notoriously unreliable. Also, people are always making comparisons like the above. How many times have you heard someone say a tornado sounded like a freight train. Does that mean that tornados don't exist and it really *was* a freight train that destroyed their house...? Or someone saying that the aftermath of a hurricane looked like a war zone. Does that mean that it really wasn't a hurricane but a super-secret battle that happened during that rain storm? It's not tornados that don't exist -- freight trains are just carefully harnessed tornadoes, is what it is. :) (Yes, that's silly. But that's what occurred to me when I read that.) So, some firefighters said over the radio that something sounded like a bomb. So what? That's probably what it did sound like. That doesn't make it a bomb. And then there's the question, is it a firecracker or a gun? If you hear enough of both, you learn to tell the difference in sound. Or so I've been told by someone who lived on a really bad street in DC for a year. A bomb is just a particular sort of explosion. If something explodes, there's a decent chance it'll sound like a bomb. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Let's Roll
Dave said: But I'm not really that concerned about being that freaky relative: If a group of men with last names like Bush and Cheney and Rove in fact murdered 3000 of my fellow Americans to further their political aims, then I owe my son and his generation nothing less. Don't you think that if Bush and co had been behind it, their reaction would have been less slow, confused and downright incompetent? Rich ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Let's Roll
On Jan 3, 2006, at 10:45 AM, Richard Baker wrote: Dave said: But I'm not really that concerned about being that freaky relative: If a group of men with last names like Bush and Cheney and Rove in fact murdered 3000 of my fellow Americans to further their political aims, then I owe my son and his generation nothing less. Don't you think that if Bush and co had been behind it, their reaction would have been less slow, confused and downright incompetent? This is probably the strongest argument against a conspiracy on 9/11 -- it gives the bunch that sent truckloads of ice to *Maine* in response to a hurricane in Louisiana and Mississippi way too much credit. Also, I am very leery of conspiracy theorists for some of the same reasons that John Horn cited: they give far too much creedance to statements of amateurs under stress (as well as professional firefighters and the like). Also, in this particular case, one of the web sites connected with this video goes on and on about a supposed laser targeting spot that appears on the second tower just as the plane goes in... The spot moves slowly to the right and off the building, across the smoke that emerges from the side of the building, and onto another building that is obviously much closer to the camera than the twin towers. They assume that the fact that it moves across the frame of the video and intersects with the target building and another building a mile and a half away is proof that it is a laser -- what else could move that fast, they ask. Well, some piece of floating paper or a bird or just about anything else between the Manhattan skyline and the camera. In fact, it could only have been a targeting laser if the laser just happened to be coincident with the camera. Anyway, after a good night's sleep, I've decided not to become the freaky relative, but I'm going to keep an open mind to the idea that we may have been led into a costly and pointless war for reasons that have more to do with the desire for a particular group to maintain control over this country than the desire for another group to bring it down. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Let's Roll
On 1/3/06, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then there's the question, is it a firecracker or a gun? If you hear enough of both, you learn to tell the difference in sound. Or so I've been told by someone who lived on a really bad street in DC for a year. A bomb is just a particular sort of explosion. If something explodes, there's a decent chance it'll sound like a bomb. The most significant accounts of multiple explosions came from firefighters inside the WTC. Those are people who know what explosions sound like. And unless they thought they were truly significant and not just the sort of popping and snapping that accompanies any hot fire, they wouldn't have reported them on the radio, especially when all hell was breaking loose. Firefighters reporting multiple explosions inside the WTC, many floors away from the impact, seems very strange. Those reports were disturbing... as were the photos of airplane parts at the Pentagon which couldn't have come from a 757... and the side of the hole in the Pentagon. It seems impossible that this could have been pulled off as a conspiracy without some kind of real leak... but there's plenty in the report to worry about. -- Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages: 408-904-7198 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Brin-l Digest, Vol 260, Issue 2
Don't you think that if Bush and Co had been behind it, their reaction would have been less slow, confused and downright incompetent? Rich I doubt Bush knew, it was Cheney who took the reins while Bush was genuinely stunned and had no idea what to do. The theory I heard had to so with how large structures are designed to collapse with shaped charges. Jon Mann ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
MSN: British woman 'marries' dolphin
There has to be some good jokes in this somewhere. Video and pictures: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10694972/?GT1=7538 With this herring I thee wed British woman 'marries' dolphin, tying the net after 15-year courtship The Associated Press Updated: 2:48 p.m. ET Jan. 3, 2006 JERUSALEM - Sharon Tendler met Cindy 15 years ago. She said it was love at first sight. This week she finally took the plunge and proposed. The lucky guy plunged right back. In a modest ceremony at Dolphin Reef in the southern Israeli port of Eilat, Tendler, a 41-year-old British citizen, apparently became the world's first person to marry a dolphin. Dressed in a white dress, a veil and pink flowers in her hair, Tendler got down on one knee on the dock and gave Cindy a kiss. And a piece of herring. It's not a perverted thing. I do love this dolphin. He's the love of my life, she said Saturday, upon her return to London. Tendler, who said she imports clothes and promotes rock bands in England, has visited Israel several times a year since first meeting the dolphin. When asked in the past if she had a boyfriend, she would always reply, No. I'm going to end up with Cindy. On Wednesday, she made it official, sort of. While she acknowledged the wedding had no legal bearing she did say it reflected her deep feelings toward the bottlenosed, 35-year-old object of her affection. It's not a bad thing. It's just something that we did because I love him, but not in the way that you love a man. It's just a pure love that I have for this animal, she said. While she still kept open the option of marrying human at some stage, she said for now she was strictly a one-dolphin woman. She's hardly the jealous type, though. He will still play with all the other girls there, she said, of their prenuptial agreement. I hope he has a lot of baby dolphins with the other dolphins. The more dolphins the better. C 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed. C 2006 MSNBC.com URL: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10694972/?GT1=7538 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Let's Roll
On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:23 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: On 1/3/06, Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then there's the question, is it a firecracker or a gun? If you hear enough of both, you learn to tell the difference in sound. Or so I've been told by someone who lived on a really bad street in DC for a year. A bomb is just a particular sort of explosion. If something explodes, there's a decent chance it'll sound like a bomb. The most significant accounts of multiple explosions came from firefighters inside the WTC. Those are people who know what explosions sound like. And unless they thought they were truly significant and not just the sort of popping and snapping that accompanies any hot fire, they wouldn't have reported them on the radio, especially when all hell was breaking loose. Firefighters reporting multiple explosions inside the WTC, many floors away from the impact, seems very strange. True, and the fact that huge slabs of marble were blown off the walls and virtually all of the lobby windows were blown out of the building -- I realize that an airplane entering a building will create a huge overpressure, but even the FDNY captain on scene couldn't explain the lobby damage. And the huge pools of steel, still molten weeks after the building came down. What the hell kept it so hot, hotter than any kerosene fire can possibly get? And it's not just that people described the plane hitting the tower as an explosion, it's the reports -- many of them at the time they happened -- of there goes another explosion. There are radio recordings of lots of firefighters reported secondary explosions throughout the building at various times, and footage of reporters reacting to explosions way after the both planes had hit. Something happened on 9/11 other than the official version, and the price has been the real security of the USA. Dave ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Let's Roll
Dave Land wrote: On Jan 3, 2006, at 1:23 PM, Nick Arnett wrote: The most significant accounts of multiple explosions came from firefighters inside the WTC. Those are people who know what explosions sound like. And unless they thought they were truly significant and not just the sort of popping and snapping that accompanies any hot fire, they wouldn't have reported them on the radio, especially when all hell was breaking loose. Firefighters reporting multiple explosions inside the WTC, many floors away from the impact, seems very strange. True, and the fact that huge slabs of marble were blown off the walls and virtually all of the lobby windows were blown out of the building -- I realize that an airplane entering a building will create a huge overpressure, but even the FDNY captain on scene couldn't explain the lobby damage. Possible explanation: A plane traveling at a couple hundred miles per hour has a lot of kinetic force behind it. Such an impact can cause powerful vibrations down the building, blowing out windows and causing other damage, especially on the ground floor where the vibrations would then hit the foundation, having nowhere else to go. And the huge pools of steel, still molten weeks after the building came down. What the hell kept it so hot, hotter than any kerosene fire can possibly get? Possible explanation: When metal is bent, it gets hot, *very* hot. If the metal were turned molten by the collapse of the building, then was buried under tons of rubble and debris, the pressure and insulating properties of the rubble could easily keep the metal molten by simple virtue of the fact that there is no way for the heat to escape. And it's not just that people described the plane hitting the tower as an explosion, it's the reports -- many of them at the time they happened -- of there goes another explosion. There are radio recordings of lots of firefighters reported secondary explosions throughout the building at various times, and footage of reporters reacting to explosions way after the both planes had hit. Possible explanation: Serious structural damage to a building can cause secondary explosions to occur, particularly if there are natural gas lines running through the structure. Something happened on 9/11 other than the official version, and the price has been the real security of the USA. Dave As utterly despicable and hateable as Bush, Cheyney, and Rumsfeld are, there is nothing here to prove anything other than what was said in the official story occurred. I can understand why people love conspiracies, I used to be a Roswell Aliens, crop circle, JFK assassination, etc. believer. The problem with conspiracies is that, largely, they are doomed to failure. People hate keeping secrets. Especially secrets that would have such earth-shaking impact. The number of people that would have to be involved in such a conspiracy could not possibly keep it a secret for long. All the leaks in the White house on genuine scandals and the leaks about torture of prisoners in Iraq are representative of this. A secret this big simply could not be kept. Beyond all that, Bush is too stupid to think up something like this, Cheyney's health is too precarious to handle the stress of such a conspiracy, and Rumsfeld being the mastermind of such a plot strains credibility as he doesn't stand to gain enough from committing such a despicable act. There was a documentary on the Discovery Channel once that explained the mechanisms of how and why the WTC buildings colapsed because of the airplanes hitting them. From what I understood, the method chosen for building the buildings gave them a structural Achilles heel that made it so that if two or more floors were to become structurally unsound, the floors below would not be able to survive the impact of the floors above it crushing down on them, and basically each floor would fail in turn like a row of dominoes. This description matches the videos of the buildings collapsing. Now I just wish I had watched the whole thing and paid closer attention so I could share more details. Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: MSN: British woman 'marries' dolphin
Gary Nunn wrote: There has to be some good jokes in this somewhere. Yeah, a male dolphin named Cindy... oh the teasing he must get from all the other male dolpins. JERUSALEM - Sharon Tendler met Cindy 15 years ago. She said it was love at first sight. This week she finally took the plunge and proposed. The lucky guy plunged right back. In a modest ceremony at Dolphin Reef in the southern Israeli port of Eilat, Tendler, a 41-year-old British citizen, apparently became the world's first person to marry a dolphin. Given my past I have the right to joke about a topic like this, but can't think of anything witty at the moment, only really bad jokes about problems with the in-laws and wedding/honeymoon attire. I'd say the timing of the article arriving on list was quite a fluke though. :-) (Sorry, I can't resist a bad pun) Michael Harney [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Let's Roll
Michael wrote: As utterly despicable and hateable as Bush, Cheyney, and Rumsfeld are, there is nothing here to prove anything other than what was said in the official story occurred. I can understand why people love conspiracies, I used to be a Roswell Aliens, crop circle, JFK assassination, etc. believer. The problem with conspiracies is that, largely, they are doomed to failure. People hate keeping secrets. Especially secrets that would have such earth-shaking impact. The number of people that would have to be involved in such a conspiracy could not possibly keep it a secret for long. All the leaks in the White house on genuine scandals and the leaks about torture of prisoners in Iraq are representative of this. A secret this big simply could not be kept. Beyond all that, Bush is too stupid to think up something like this, Cheyney's health is too precarious to handle the stress of such a conspiracy, and Rumsfeld being the mastermind of such a plot strains credibility as he doesn't stand to gain enough from committing such a despicable act. The one possible conspiracy that would require few people to commit and would thus be more easily contained; willful negligence. De-emphasize the importance of vigilance against terrorism, ignore reports of terrorist activity, basically pretend to be totally incompetent and assume that the terrorists will hit eventually and give you your justification for... -- Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
