Re: Science and Ideals.
Kevin said: Minor nit. The battle of Manzikert was in 1071. Yes, you're right. Thank you. Rich, who must read more about Byzantine history. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science and Ideals.
I'm trying to figure out what the two laws of god that Dan referred to in his reply to my last post. The only thing I found on the net is love god and love thy neighbor which I can't imagine is what he means. Can you help me out here Dan? Anyone? Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science and Ideals.
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Pensinger Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 6:13 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Science and Ideals. I'm trying to figure out what the two laws of god that Dan referred to in his reply to my last post. The only thing I found on the net is love god and love thy neighbor which I can't imagine is what he means. Can you help me out here Dan? Anyone? Yup, those are the two laws. Loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind and loving one's neighbor as oneself are the two Great Commandments that Jesus refers too. Earlier than Jesus, Eammial (sp) one of the founding rabbis of the Talmud has been quoted saying something very similar to what Jesus said as the second law about 100 years earlier. There's a story that goes with this, but my portable just crashed and I don't have time to write it now. If anyone is interested, I'll do it later. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science and Ideals.
Let us begin with this basic knowledge. This is found in the tautology of true and false statements or simple basic yes or no logic. I am sure yes and no is not beyond the grasp of any conversant on this page. The truth or falsity of a particular idea exists in the truth of logic, which is either TT or TF or FT or FF. Given this mathematical probability tree the yes/no existence of an idea is TF or FT it cannot be TT or FF in those events being true factually or false factually. The Boolean analogies and API applications are found in these basic mathematical applications in semantics and also in statistics. However, I must say I do not know where it rests in gibberish if such a science exists at all. Now that this groups discussions exist beyond this basic scientific principle of a tautology I assumed that the expressions on the ideas and science were suitable for evaluation on these basic principles which provide the assembly languages and logic of both the world of semantics, computer and scientific communications; Boolean analysis and now I am reaching when I say alien technologies because the term itself indicate it is out of the human conscience reach although human accept alien as being. Since the probability tree express 100% then the existence of TT is 25% and FF is 25% then the TF and FT are flip sided of each other both comprising of 25% making the 50% for that phenomenon that Andrew C implied by saying if mathematical. The flip side is if not. The arguments about perception are different than those of mathematics. Perception rests in the receiver not the sender. Altruistic ideas, which may drive the individual, are mater of receiving what is sent and therefore there is the idea of a mindset. An idea arises from internal or external resources. I propose an innate potential within humans which process ideas. I propose that humans are aware and driven from birth. The mathematics of statistics is used to determine if such ideas are true of false of partially true and false. Ideas generated by mind-set are separate from human ideas so my reading Andrew C Yes, but where does the ability to do so come from? I'd argue that only Humans and a few other animals have the ability to comprehend altruistic ideals and here we touch on self-awareness: I would assume he touches on self-perceptions and good senses to mean hearing seeing and higher intelligence in humans and animals. I say to Andrew C 50% given the measure of the tautology based in the logic of yes/no but the human perception is more than mathematical logic so Say it is something more than mathematic logic, which drives the ability This simply indicate to Andrew C that he has made a grand leap from altruistic ideaism as being in touch with one self to propose And if it's like mathematics it raises the question would aliens Develop the same ethics as us? All or this is still separated from whether a mind set is wired to receive the idea of being altruistic. And I attempt to provide a scientific argument related to the mathematical evaluation, which would limit his argument to 50% certainty using any Boolean system. He further proposes that aliens might develop our ethics if it’s like mathematics. I am believed that the question beg answering so I ventured that the helix of genetic of the human structure has something to do with the mindset which we humans inherit. It is the basis of the movement of energy and the processes and drives our awareness. Our feelings and processing ideas are unique and we may or may not see something call an idea. Some minds are said to be empty and even after receiving a barge of ideas, say in a class on booleagean mathematics or one measuring finite existence, some mind-sets remains blank. What is seen, imagined, repelled or retained is based upon the individual’s mind-set. If the receiver is wired to accept the stimulus of the idea and has a potential suitable to accept altruism it is increased in society as part of the ethical i.e. good life. So I was satisfied Andrew C proposal that suggest Andrew C wrote 9-4-08 Yes, but where does the ability to do so come from? I'd argue that only Humans and a few other animals have the ability to comprehend altruistic ideals - and here we touch on self-awareness: Understanding of the self as an individual is key to accepting others as individuals and enables true altruistic actions. Indicating to me that altruism rest upon someone being in touch with their own self and the visions related to such ideas is individually driven. I did not necessarily agree with the idea that altruism is an unselfish action, which is evident in children because I do not equate altruism with unselfishness. I cannot understand the ability to care for another without caring for oneself. It is my belief that once a human acts it is first upon self. Even if the focus of
RE: Science and Ideals.
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008, Dan M wrote: Earlier than Jesus, Eammial (sp) one of the founding rabbis of the Talmud has been quoted saying something very similar to what Jesus said as the second law about 100 years earlier. There's a story that goes with this, but my portable just crashed and I don't have time to write it now. If anyone is interested, I'll do it later. Consider me interested. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science and Ideals.
Yup, those are the two laws. Loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind and loving one's neighbor as oneself are the two Great Commandments that Jesus refers too. So what if you don't believe in God and your neighbors are alcholic assholes who keep the neighberhood up all night and mistreat their dogs? Olin - Original Message - From: Dan Mmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion'mailto:brin-l@mccmedia.com Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 4:44 PM Subject: RE: Science and Ideals. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Pensinger Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 6:13 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Science and Ideals. I'm trying to figure out what the two laws of god that Dan referred to in his reply to my last post. The only thing I found on the net is love god and love thy neighbor which I can't imagine is what he means. Can you help me out here Dan? Anyone? Yup, those are the two laws. Loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind and loving one's neighbor as oneself are the two Great Commandments that Jesus refers too. Earlier than Jesus, Eammial (sp) one of the founding rabbis of the Talmud has been quoted saying something very similar to what Jesus said as the second law about 100 years earlier. There's a story that goes with this, but my portable just crashed and I don't have time to write it now. If anyone is interested, I'll do it later. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-lhttp://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science and Ideals.
At 08:40 PM Sunday 9/7/2008, Olin Elliott wrote: Yup, those are the two laws. Loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind and loving one's neighbor as oneself are the two Great Commandments that Jesus refers too. So what if you don't believe in God and your neighbors are alcholic assholes who keep the neighberhood up all night and mistreat their dogs? And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise. (New Testament | Luke 10:25 - 37) That Thou Doest, Do Quickly Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Science and Ideals.
At 08:40 PM Sunday 9/7/2008, Olin Elliott wrote: Yup, those are the two laws. Loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind and loving one's neighbor as oneself are the two Great Commandments that Jesus refers too. So what if you don't believe in God At this holiday season in December, we want to wish all our Christian friends 'Merry Christmas, all our Jewish friends 'Happy Chanukah,' all our Wiccan friends a prosperous Solstice, and to all our atheist friends 'Good Luck!' . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science and Ideals.
At 08:18 PM Sunday 9/7/2008, Julia Thompson wrote: On Sun, 7 Sep 2008, Dan M wrote: Earlier than Jesus, Eammial (sp) one of the founding rabbis of the Talmud has been quoted saying something very similar to what Jesus said as the second law about 100 years earlier. There's a story that goes with this, but my portable just crashed and I don't have time to write it now. If anyone is interested, I'll do it later. Consider me interested. Me, too. Obligatory Second Line Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Science and Ideals.
At 06:44 PM Sunday 9/7/2008, Dan M wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Pensinger Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2008 6:13 PM To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion Subject: Re: Science and Ideals. I'm trying to figure out what the two laws of god that Dan referred to in his reply to my last post. The only thing I found on the net is love god and love thy neighbor which I can't imagine is what he means. Can you help me out here Dan? Anyone? Yup, those are the two laws. Loving God with all one's heart, soul, and mind and loving one's neighbor as oneself are the two Great Commandments that Jesus refers too. Reference: But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. (New Testament | Matthew 22:34 - 40) or if you prefer the NIV: Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law? Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Welcome to Hyperinflation!
At 08:20 PM Monday 9/1/2008, Doug Pensinger wrote: Ronn! wrote: The 4% inflation is unacceptable statement was the Democrat's ridicule of Ford's Whip Inflation Now! campaign and it's WIN buttons. I'm sure they picked the worst figure they could find, just as whoever from the other side who came up with the Carter said 4% inflation was unacceptable, then he got into office and ran it up to 20% statement back then probably picked the worst spot figure they could find or fudge. Your statement had no caveats or explanations nor did it have an attribution and its implication was that inflation jumped from 4 to 20% during the Carter Administration. I'm sorry if I'm being didactic, but you're a respected member of the list and people listen to what you have to say. Sorry for the confusion. I really expected that of all of the people on the list who report having lived through and remembering the Carter years at least one other would remember that series of exchanges . . . . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Welcome to Hyperinflation!
At 10:03 PM Monday 9/1/2008, John Williams wrote: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] So who can we blame for poor leadership and the complete lack of a comprehensive energy policy? The same one we blame for poor humanity leadership and complete lack of a comprehensive intelligent-design policy? Sorry for the sarcasm, but is blame so important? Unfortunately it is only a little sarcasm to note that often in business* and government assigning blame seems to be more important than actually finding a solution, and is almost always more important than taking responsibility . . . _ *anecdotal evidence: the number of people who report recognizing their current or former employer in Dilbert or before that the Judge Reinhold film _Head Office_ . . . Only About 90+ Messages To Go To Catch Up Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Evolution versus religion
Note how Thorax gets it exactly backwards (according to contemporary evolutionary biologists) in the second panel http://www.comics.com/comics/chickweed/archive/images/chickweed2008090116457.jpg . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Welcome to Hyperinflation!
At 11:41 PM Monday 9/1/2008, John Williams wrote: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] What is important is that a leader take responsibility for his administration. It is important that I am able to distinguish between someone that has done a good job and someone that hasn't when I cast my vote. So in that case, yea, blame is pretty important. Sorry, I blame myself. I was not clear. I meant to ask, is it helpful to blame politicians for not having solutions to difficult problems? Helpful? Maybe not. But it feels sooo good . . . Not To Mention Distracts Voters From The Fact That The Other Party Hasn't A Clue How To Solve It Either Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Welcome to Hyperinflation!
At 09:50 AM Tuesday 9/2/2008, John Williams wrote: Waste is not something that can be efficiently identified and reduced by politicians. Indeed even casual observation suggests that the opposite is the more common outcome. . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: war on the environment...
At 09:19 PM Wednesday 9/3/2008, John Williams wrote: Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED] i think it is already too late, considering humanity's greed, and lack of foresight. Could be. I had a heck of a time getting a statistically significant r-squared with a 4th order curve fit to the modified Malthus equation, particularly with the stiffness of the inverse-greed parameter. You obviously have B.S. in statistics. No Mention Made Above Of College Degrees Maru . . . ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Welcome to Hyperinflation!
On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 8:33 PM, John Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Look at what has happened in a traditionally low-risk marketplace -- real estate -- lately. Even there, investors started having crazy expectations. And yes, the market is correcting, but look at the fallout. People thought that real-estate always went up, at least for the past 30 years in the US, they said. Now a generation of investors has learned otherwise. That lesson will probably stay with the current generation of investors, but in 20 or 30 years the lesson may need to be re-learned. And the investors who learned from history will profit from the ones who did not. I'm not sure that all that many people have learned not to be greedy and short-term focused. My posting was ironically predictive, as my job fell victim to the market's obsession with positive cash flow. And we bought a house at what now seems to be pretty much the exact wrong time. On the other hand, we own the house my wife grew up in, which is in Springfield, Oregon, where housing prices are rising. So there's that, anyway. Nick ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
