Re: Proud and relieved

[Bryon Daly]

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 3:14 PM, Deborah Harrell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> > Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> > I am proud of what we have begun and look forward, yes, to
> > what we can do.
>

It's a historic event and while this sounds goofy to say - I'm proud to have
taken part in it in some microscopic way.

It's funny - 4.5 years ago I would never have thought this was possible, not
any time soon.  Then, watching Obama's 2004 convention speech with my wife,
it didn't seem so unlikely and distant any more.  I said to her "wow, I can
see him become president some day".  (I didn't think it'd be as soon as
2008, though!)


> Obama's acknowledgement that we are at the beginning of what will be a hard
> slog I thought honest and realistic;
>

I was glad to see him say this also.  I was actually hoping he'd emphasize
this further.  So many people in the US and around the world have pinned
their hopes and dreams to him - possibly unrealistically high expectations
that I'd hate to see turn to disillusionment and bitterness when it turns
out he's a mere human - and a politician, to boot.


> *McCain's concession speech was very much a class act; I did not think he
> would be a particularly good president, but he is a good man.
>

The concession speech was definitely classy, and a reminder of the McCain of
the 2000 campaign.  I still wonder what would have happened if he had won
instead of Bush back then, or even what would have happened if he hadn't
sold his soul to the Republican "base" in 2004.

It'll be interesting to see if he does try to be bi-partisan, but I'm
guessing he's not going to have a lot of clout in the senate - he's
certainly lost of lot of respect of the Dems, and the Reps are likely going
to scapegoat him for losing the election by not being tough enough and
conservative enough.

-bryon
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Speaking of unicorns

[Bryon Daly]

On Sun, Oct 19, 2008 at 9:04 PM, Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:

> At least, unicorns were mentioned in some other thread today
>
>
> http://www.democraticstuff.com/Unicorns-for-Obama-Photo-Button-p/bt23828.htm
>

Another candidate has apparently gone a step further and put a uni on his
ticket.  ROAU.  Here are some campaign pictures and logos:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/sets/72157603724213121/
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Proud and relieved

[William T Goodall]

On 5 Nov 2008, at 15:45, Nick Arnett wrote:
> I am proud of what we have begun and look forward, yes, to what we  
> can do.
>

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/black_man_given_nations

"WASHINGTON—African-American man Barack Obama, 47, was given the least- 
desirable job in the entire country Tuesday when he was elected  
president of the United States of America. In his new high-stress, low- 
reward position, Obama will be charged with such tasks as completely  
overhauling the nation's broken-down economy, repairing the crumbling  
infrastructure, and generally having to please more than 300 million  
Americans and cater to their every whim on a daily basis. As part of  
his duties, the black man will have to spend four to eight years  
cleaning up the messes other people left behind. The job comes with  
such intense scrutiny and so certain a guarantee of failure that only  
one other person even bothered applying for it. Said scholar and  
activist Mark L. Denton, "It just goes to show you that, in this  
country, a black man still can't catch a break.""

Burdens Maru
-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

It was only after ordering the melon balls that Rick discovered he was  
at a drive through plastic surgery.



___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

From The Archives

[Rceeberger]

Me: Tue Jul 27 19:03:48 PDT 2004 

"OK, I'm ready to vote for Barack Obama for President.

Wow!
What a dynamic speaker.
He was really able to elucidate much of what I feel about America.


xponent
Encore!!! Maru
rob"



xponent
I Found It Maru
rob


___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Glee overseas as Obama wins

[Rceeberger]

http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117995346.html?categoryId=3230&cs=1

Barack Obama's historic victory was greeted around the world with reactions 
ranging from hope to hostility.
In Kenya, Obama's ancestral home, folks danced in the street, while in 
Moscow, President Dmitry Medvedev took the opportunity to up the military 
ante. In Rome, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi feigned indifference while 
offering the new American leader "advice."

But in the U.S., the mood was one of anticipation.

Washington was abuzz with reports that the president-elect offered the chief 
of staff job to Rahm Emanuel, brother of Endeavor Agency partner Ari 
Emanuel.

Attention also was turning to the inauguration, as hotels started to book up 
in anticipation of a crush of revelers to greet the first Democratic 
turnover of the White House since 1992.

"Parties are being planned as we speak," said one longtime D.C. insider. 
"Everybody's waiting for the Chicago crowd to come. It will be a total 
realignment of social Washington."

After the last guests left from an election night party at her Beverly Park 
home, Irena Medavoy, who, with husband Mike, hosted Obama at their home for 
a fund-raiser, said that she and Arianna Huffington, among others, were 
planning a pre-inaugural party.

Two races of interest to the entertainment industry remained in dispute.

In California, Los Angeles County stopped issuing marriage licenses to 
same-sex couples after it appeared voters had approved the Proposition 8 
ballot initiative to constitutionally ban gay nuptials in the state. While 
news outlets declared that the initiative had passed, supporters of gay 
marriage refused to concede pending the results of remaining absentee 
ballots.

"There is always the thought of 'live to fight another day,' but if we end 
up losing this, the disappointment is that a majority of California voters 
didn't get that this is a human rights and civil rights issue," said 
producer Bruce Cohen, who had raised money and campaigned against the 
initiative.

The city attorneys of San Francisco and Los Angeles and counsel of Santa 
Clara County filed a petition with the state Supreme Court to invalidate the 
proposition, and others were planning other legal challenges.

Meanwhile, in Minnesota, Al Franken trailed incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman by 
just 475 votes, triggering an automatic recount.

"This has been a long campaign, but it is going to be a little longer before 
we have a winner," Franken said.

Foreign relations

Outside the U.S., Obama dominated the news. No country greeted his win with 
such unbridled joy as Kenya, where Obama's father was born. President Mwai 
Kibaki declared Thursday a national holiday to celebrate. "Sen. Obama is our 
new president. God has answered our prayers," enthused pastor Washington 
Obonyo.

In Russia, in his first state of the nation address, President Medvedev did 
not directly congratulate Obama, but said he hoped the new administration 
would mend damaged relations between the two countries, suggesting it was up 
to the U.S. to take the first steps. Russia hoped that Obama would "make a 
choice in favor of full-fledged relations with Russia," Medvedev said.

He then announced the deployment of short-range Iskander missiles in 
Russia's Baltic enclave Kaliningrad, which he said would "neutralize" the 
planned U.S. anti-missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic.

In Italy, as millions stayed up late Tuesday to watch the all-night TV 
coverage, media mogul-turned-premier Berlusconi, among President Bush's 
strongest allies in Europe, told reporters he "was going to bed early."

Berlusconi congratulated Obama on Wednesday but added he would offer him 
"some advice, given my age and experience." Berlusconi, who has been in 
politics since 1994, is 72.

Meanwhile, right-winger Maurizio Gasparri, Senate leader of Berlusconi's 
conservative People of Freedom Party, sparked an uproar by stating on 
Italian state radio that "with Obama in the White House, perhaps al Qaeda is 
happier."

As for Italian headlines, they ranged from the jubilant "Obama president, 
it's another America" banner on leftist La Repubblica to the more 
matter-of-fact "Obama president, America changes" on Berlusconi-owned Il 
Giornale.

In Blighty, impromptu celebratory parties were held in many urban centers, 
especially liberal strongholds like London, Manchester and Brighton, and 
millions stayed up through the night glued to their TVs as results rolled 
in. This included a huge number of teens and twentysomethings -- surprising 
given their reputation for political apathy.

But not everyone was popping the champagne. The manager of a busy Syrian 
restaurant in West London told Daily Variety, "I won't be watching. To us 
Arabs, both candidates are the same. Neither will significantly change 
foreign policy in the Middle East."

More than one optiona.. (Co) Daily Variety
  Filmography, Year, Role
  b.. (Co) Daily Variety
But apart from such lon

Re: more from the troll

[John Williams]

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> you know what i mean is more like a form of coercion under duress when one 
> has no choice but to accept the banker's terms, since they control the 
> regulators.

How exactly were you coerced under duress? Did they kidnap you and
take you to the bank, then refuse to allow you to leave until you
signed the loan? Or did you choose to go to the bank, and when given
the choice to sign or leave, you chose to sign?

Why blame someone else for one's own choices?
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

more from the troll

[Jon Louis Mann]

> > if i wanted to achieve the american dream i would be
> "forced" to borrow at usurious terms.

> So when you write forced in quotes, you really mean
> "not forced". No
> one forced you, or people like you, to borrow money at
> terms you did
> not like. You chose to do so. Don't you think it is
> better to say what
> one means and not to play with language to try to blame
> other people
> for one's own choices?
 
you know what i mean is more like a form of coercion under duress when one has 
no choice but to accept the banker's terms, since they control the regulators.

you are the one playing with context and giving your own spin to what i say by 
being picyune. i see how you nitpick, all the time on this site.  you look for 
any thing you can mock or attack.  
so you can ignore valid points you are unable to refute.
 
just so you don't think you drove me off, i will be starting back to work next 
month, so i won't have time to play your little mind games.  you will just have 
to get a life, or find someone else to bait.

the fact that you continue to avoid revealing who you really are, your tax 
bracket, and what you do for a living is further  proof you are a troll, or are 
you holding out for more money?   
jon  


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: more from the troll

[John Williams]

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:55 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> if i wanted to achieve the american dream i would be "forced" to borrow at 
> usurious terms.

So when you write forced in quotes, you really mean "not forced". No
one forced you, or people like you, to borrow money at terms you did
not like. You chose to do so. Don't you think it is better to say what
one means and not to play with language to try to blame other people
for one's own choices?
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

more from the troll

[Jon Louis Mann]

> >of course, i could "choose" to be a renter
> instead, and pay off someone else's mortgage.
> >double duh...

> But a lot of us made exactly that choice Jon -- we chose
> not to try and buy because we thought it was too risky and
> we weren't sure we'd be able to afford it in the
> future.  Granted, if I have a choice (which I may not)
> I'd rather see my tax dollars go to home owners, event
> those who possibly made unwise choices, than to banks and
> financial institutions.  But honestly, I'd rather not
> have to bail out either ...
> Olin

paying off the loan sharks hurts more, olin, but my alternative is to throw 
money down a hole to pay off my landlord's mortgage.  

why people mind paying taxes that benefit all of us (except for wars and 
bureaucratic waste) and don't mind the banks, brokers, and financial managers 
ripping us all off, is beyond me. 

as a socialist i would like to see more government programs like the g.i. bill, 
which made it possible for me to buy my first property, and from that i was 
able to buy a house.  i would have been less likely to default without the 
balloon payment, but i was lucky and flipped it in time to buy another house 
for cash.  

why should i have the luck of the draw and all those other suckers that caught 
when the bubble collapsed are losing their homes?  

the troll would say i should give him my house to appease my guilt, but he just 
likes to bait anyone who refute his laissez faire, libertarian, ayn randian 
rants.   
jon


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: more from the troll

[Olin Elliott]

>of course, i could "choose" to be a renter instead, and pay off someone else's 
>mortgage.
>double duh...

But a lot of us made exactly that choice Jon -- we chose not to try and buy 
because we thought it was too risky and we weren't sure we'd be able to afford 
it in the future.  Granted, if I have a choice (which I may not) I'd rather see 
my tax dollars go to home owners, event those who possibly made unwise choices, 
than to banks and financial institutions.  But honestly, I'd rather not have to 
bail out either ...

Olin

  - Original Message - 
  From: Jon Louis Mann 
  To: Killer Bs (David Brin et al) Discussion 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 4:55 PM
  Subject: more from the troll


  > > duh; it was the only way i could become a home
  > owner...
   
  > So you wanted to own a home, and you chose to borrow
  > money to achieve your desire. I don't see where the
  > force is coming in.

  okay, here we go again, troll.  are you having fun?   
  if i wanted to achieve the american dream i would be "forced" to borrow at 
usurious terms.  here's how it works, banks borrow our money at low interest 
and turn around and "loan" it at whatever rate the market will bear, or the 
government will allow.  
  now do you get it?  duh...
  of course, i could "choose" to be a renter instead, and pay off someone 
else's mortgage.
  double duh...
  jon
  now who are you, really, and what tax bracket???



  ___
  
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

more from the troll

[Jon Louis Mann]

> > duh; it was the only way i could become a home
> owner...
 
> So you wanted to own a home, and you chose to borrow
> money to achieve your desire. I don't see where the
> force is coming in.

okay, here we go again, troll.  are you having fun?   
if i wanted to achieve the american dream i would be "forced" to borrow at 
usurious terms.  here's how it works, banks borrow our money at low interest 
and turn around and "loan" it at whatever rate the market will bear, or the 
government will allow.  
now do you get it?  duh...
of course, i could "choose" to be a renter instead, and pay off someone else's 
mortgage.
double duh...
jon
now who are you, really, and what tax bracket???


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: "people like me"

[John Williams]

On Wed, Nov 5, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> duh; it was the only way i could become a home owner...

So you wanted to own a home, and you chose to borrow
money to achieve your desire. I don't see where the force
is coming in.
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

In the Court of the Crimson King

[Jon Louis Mann]

> I suspect it is; Sterling puts in a bunch of
> cute touches.  It would be hard to prove, though,
> since a lot of the story is about the Emperor of
> Mars.
> This sequence of stories is set in an alternate
> world where the naive science fiction that
> populated every planet with humanoid aliens turns
> out to be right.  I believe there are a lot of
> homages to "classic" novels which I didn't
> read.
>   ---David
> Canals, of course.  Maru.

sounds like the original killer bees...


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Proud and relieved

[Jon Louis Mann]

> I'm fairly sure that his wife's accident was during
> his stay in Vietnam (not an excuse, but the timing is not as
> bad as it otherwise sounds), and a large number of vets,
> POWS or not, wind up divorcing.  He was known to be a
> ladies' man before Vietnam, and that did not change
> after he returned home (also not an excuse!).  He was a
> wise-ass in the Academy, and got a large number of demerits,
> which certainly lowered his class ranking.

i was only making the point that those flaws would have destroyed obama's 
chances.  

> Where he failed, to me, was in losing sight of his maverick
> status and pandering to the right (aka base): taking a more
> concilliatory stance on 'coercive interrogation,'
> choosing Palin, and using the Republican machine to run this
> campaign -- he wanted the Presidency so badly that he
> compromised his ideals to an unacceptable level (IMO).  IOW,
> he screwed up.  That does not mean he isn't a good
> person, but poor judgement in those instances meant I would
> not ever vote for him.

exactly, but obama is a saint by comparison for refusing to stoop to such 
tactics, and for keping a cool head when attacked.  i could not have done so.

> [I ought to point out that I have been watching Obama since
> reading his 2004 speech, and subsequently read his books;
> yesterday was the first time I voted *for* a major candidate
> instead of voting independent 'cause I didn't like
> the Parties, or, as in 2000 & 2004, held my nose and
> voted Democrat b/c I found GWB terrifyingly ignorant,
> inadequate and - well - imbecilic.]
> Debbi

I had obama on a redeye flight from d.c. to chicago two years ago, just before 
he declared.  he was in my section so we chatted for over a half hour.  he was 
very gracious and charismatic.  i still have his card in my wallet and it got 
me into the v.i.p. suite last night at the hyatt regency.  the wrist band will 
stay on my arm until it falls off.
jon
jon


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Franklin Delano Obama

[Jon Louis Mann]

> The problem is that our economy has changed, and we no
> longer get the kind of "war boost" that we got
> during WWII.  Then, we were a heavy industrial economy and
> the massive build up of production was labor intensive and
> created millions of new jobs and massive stimulus.  Now,
> both the nature of our econmy and our military is totally
> different.  We don't have the massive industrial base to
> crank out tanks and airplanes at the rate we did then,
> creating all those new jobs.  And our military is no longer
> structured in that way, dependent on huge amounts of
> hardware.  So we can run an ongoing war (two of them
> actually) for many years and not see an increase in our
> production or our employment.  If anything, now the total
> opposite is true.  The wars are simply a drag on our econmy,
> funneling huge amounts of borrowed money and preventing us
> from spending on vital needs at home.
> Olin


Let's hope that will all change now, and Obama will be able to carry out his 
program without being derailed by Congress...  I was at the big bash last night 
at the Century City Hyatt Regency, despite the heat and crowding, I had 
chills...
Jon


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: In the Court of the Crimson King

[David Hobby]

Jon Louis Mann wrote:
>> Hi.  I read it, but several months ago, and wasn't
>> too good with the authors at the start.  I got the
>> obvious ones, guessed at the rest, and kept on
>> reading.
>> If no one else knows, you may have to give us a bit
>> of dialogue to jog our memories.
>>  ---David
>> Feral Engines, Maru
> 
> I haven't read it. Is the title a reference to:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Court_of_the_Crimson_King

Jon--

I suspect it is; Sterling puts in a bunch of
cute touches.  It would be hard to prove, though,
since a lot of the story is about the Emperor of
Mars.

This sequence of stories is set in an alternate
world where the naive science fiction that
populated every planet with humanoid aliens turns
out to be right.  I believe there are a lot of
homages to "classic" novels which I didn't read.

---David

Canals, of course.  Maru.
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Proud and relieved

[Deborah Harrell]

> Jon Louis Mann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I wrote:

> > *McCain's concession speech was very much a class act;
> > I did not think he would be a particularly good president,
> > but he is a good man.
 
> He certainly was when he was a POW, but then, if he had
> come home early he would never have been able to live it
> down.  He had a serious anger management problem, and 
> discipline problems, but that could have been due to PTSD. 
> He had a record of crashing seven planes and was fifth from
> the bottom of his graduating class.   When Clinton cheated
> on his wife he was impeached.  McCain had a long affair
> while he was still married, and only left his first wife
> after a severe disfiguring car accident?  He also was a
> member of the Keating Five and ran an extremely negative
> campaign, using the same people Bush used against him in
> 2000...
> Any of those would have lost the election for Obama...

I'm fairly sure that his wife's accident was during his stay in Vietnam (not an 
excuse, but the timing is not as bad as it otherwise sounds), and a large 
number of vets, POWS or not, wind up divorcing.  He was known to be a ladies' 
man before Vietnam, and that did not change after he returned home (also not an 
excuse!).  He was a wise-ass in the Academy, and got a large number of 
demerits, which certainly lowered his class ranking.

Where he failed, to me, was in losing sight of his maverick status and 
pandering to the right (aka base): taking a more concilliatory stance on 
'coercive interrogation,' choosing Palin, and using the Republican machine to 
run this campaign -- he wanted the Presidency so badly that he compromised his 
ideals to an unacceptable level (IMO).  IOW, he screwed up.  That does not mean 
he isn't a good person, but poor judgement in those instances meant I would not 
ever vote for him.

[I ought to point out that I have been watching Obama since reading his 2004 
speech, and subsequently read his books; yesterday was the first time I voted 
*for* a major candidate instead of voting independent 'cause I didn't like the 
Parties, or, as in 2000 & 2004, held my nose and voted Democrat b/c I found GWB 
terrifyingly ignorant, inadequate and - well - imbecilic.]

Debbi
who ought to add a "You bet!" sticker to her car's "Got Hope?/Obama" 
bumpersticker   :)


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

"people like me"

[Jon Louis Mann]

> >  you know very well what i mean about being forced to
> accept a usurious interest rate, because "people like
> me" don't have disposable capital and high credit
> ratings.

> Actually, I don't know what you mean, which is why I
> asked. If you
> don't like the terms of the loan, then why borrow the
> money?

duh; it was the only way i could become a home owner...  
jeez are you really that dense?
jon


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Proud and relieved

[Jon Louis Mann]

> For the first time in a long time, I'm feeling quite
> proud of what this country has done.  

> There is one thing that Obama has done that truly, at last
> addresses our grief.  He calls for a national spirit of 
>  sacrifice, finally ending the arrogance of leadership
>  that urged us to live life as usual -- go shopping!
> -- while others carried the burdens of national defense. 

> We have a new leader who is involved with humanity and 
> who leads others to be so involved.
> I am proud of what we have begun and look forward, yes, to
> what we can do.
> Nick


Hear, Hear!  My faith in humanity is somewhat restored, even though it took an 
economic collapse and an ineffective opponent for Obama to win...
He has a hard row to hoe, now.  If Mc cain had won, then maybe the American 
voters would finally realize fully how they have been led down the garden path. 
 This way, Obama is stuck with the thankless task of cleaning up Bush's 
shiite...
Jon


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Proud and relieved

[Jon Louis Mann]

> *McCain's concession speech was very much a class act;
> I did not think he would be a particularly good president,
> but he is a good man.
> Debbi


He certainly was when he was a POW, but then, if he had come home early he 
would never have been able to live it down.  He had a serious anger management 
problem, and  discipline problems, but that could have been due to PTSD.  He 
had a record of crashing seven planes and was fifth from the bottom of his 
graduating class.   When Clinton cheated on his wife he was impeached.  McCain 
had a long affair while he was still married, and only left his first wife 
after a severe disfiguring car accident?  He also was a member of the Keating 
Five and ran an extremely negative campaign, using the same people Bush used 
against him in 2000...
Any of those would have lost the election for Obama...


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Proud and relieved

[Jon Louis Mann]

> I would like to also point out the wonderful Saturday Night
> Live 
> appearance where McCain plays himself and makes fun of his
> own 
> situation. It takes a great man to do that just days before
> his probable 
> defeat. Gave me a glimpse of the man he was before the
> election 
> campaigns started -- never afraid to appear on The Daily
> Show to be 
> lovingly heckled. :-)
> /c

what else could he do?  it would not have been a good time to show that famous 
temperament.  he should have stuck to his own judgment instead of going for the 
base.  he still would have lost, but not as badly with the swing voters.  let's 
see if he will keep faith with his promise to be bi-partisan...
jon


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

In the Court of the Crimson King

[Jon Louis Mann]

> Hi.  I read it, but several months ago, and wasn't
> too good with the authors at the start.  I got the
> obvious ones, guessed at the rest, and kept on
> reading.
> If no one else knows, you may have to give us a bit
> of dialogue to jog our memories.
>   ---David
> Feral Engines, Maru

I haven't read it. Is the title a reference to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Court_of_the_Crimson_King



  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Proud and relieved

[Claes Wallin]

Deborah Harrell wrote:
> *McCain's concession speech was very much a class act; I did not
> think he would be a particularly good president, but he is a good
> man.

I would like to also point out the wonderful Saturday Night Live 
appearance where McCain plays himself and makes fun of his own 
situation. It takes a great man to do that just days before his probable 
defeat. Gave me a glimpse of the man he was before the election 
campaigns started -- never afraid to appear on The Daily Show to be 
lovingly heckled. :-)

/c

___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: OT: Q. on Stirling's _In the Courts of the Crimson Kings_

[David Hobby]

Ronn! Blankenship wrote:
> Presuming that anyone here has read any of it . . .
> 
> 
> (Pretty much spoiler-free. Please try to keep it that way!)
> 
> •
> •
> •
> 
> 
> 
> •
> •
> •
> 
> 
> 
> •
> •
> •
> 
> 
> 
> •
> •
> •
> 
> 
> 
> •
> •
> •
> 
> 
> 
> •
> •
> •
> 
> 
> 
> •
> •
> •
> 
> 
> I picked it up off the "To Be Read" pile 
> yesterday morning and started it.  The only 
> attendee at the 1962 WorldCon who appears in the 
> Prologue that I couldn't identify* immediately is 
> "Frank" who appears near the top of page 
> 15.  Anyone able to give me an "Duh!  Of course!" moment?

Ronn--

Hi.  I read it, but several months ago, and wasn't
too good with the authors at the start.  I got the
obvious ones, guessed at the rest, and kept on
reading.

If no one else knows, you may have to give us a bit
of dialogue to jog our memories.

---David

Feral Engines, Maru
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Speaking of unicorns

[Deborah Harrell]

> Julia Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Date: Sunday, October 19, 2008

> At least, unicorns were mentioned in some other thread
> today
> 
> http://www.democraticstuff.com/Unicorns-for-Obama-Photo-Button-p/bt23828.htm
> 
> That site has an awful lot of buttons for sale.  Many of
> them are *highly* amusing for various reasons.


Their Imperial Tealnesses must be chuckling...
The Jib-jab poke at Obama's 'change' theme was funny (although the traditional 
view of unicorns would mean that, as a father of children, he would *not* be 
eligible to ride a unicorn).

Debbi
who yesterday would have liked Darby to have that magical unicorn ability to 
keep their rider from falling off...not that I'd be eligible in the traditional 
view either  ;)
(I don't know what happened - we were cantering up an easy slope and he just 
flat went to his knees and then collapsed; I didn't have any time to emergently 
dismount, it was so sudden.  My friend riding with me couldn't see any reason 
for him to fall; at least he wasn't significantly hurt although I will keep him 
at hand-walk only for at least a week.  I, OTOH, have some trail rash and 
various owies - thank goodness for naproxen!)

Debbi
Never Without A Helmet Maru


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Proud and relieved

[Deborah Harrell]

> Nick Arnett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

 
> There is one thing that Obama has done that truly, at last
> addresses our
> grief.  He calls for a national spirit of sacrifice,
> finally ending the
> arrogance of leadership that urged us to live life as usual
> -- go shopping!
> -- while others carried the burdens of national defense... 
> ...We have a new leader
> who is involved with humanity and who leads others to be so
> involved, though success and failure, life and death.
> 
> I am proud of what we have begun and look forward, yes, to
> what we can do.

My first reaction when I heard that McCain had conceded* was relief; joyful 
anticipation came later.  I talked with Dad, who wished that my mother had been 
alive to see this day; she would have been very pleased and proud also.

Obama's acknowledgement that we are at the beginning of what will be a hard 
slog I thought honest and realistic; the announcement that there will be a new 
puppy in the White House a lovely touch of whimsy.

*McCain's concession speech was very much a class act; I did not think he would 
be a particularly good president, but he is a good man.

Debbi
'Help us O-ba-man - you're our only hope-
'He is not the only one - but he is the best...' Maru


  
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Michael Crichton Dies

[johngar]

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/michael-crichton-dies/?hp
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Weekly Chat Reminder

[William T Goodall]

The Brin-L weekly chat has been a list tradition for over ten
years. Way back on 27 May, 1998, Marco Maisenhelder first set
up a chatroom for the list, and on the next day, he established
a weekly chat time. We've been through several servers, chat
technologies, and even casts of regulars over the years, but
the chat goes on... and we want more recruits!

Whether you're an active poster or a lurker, whether you've
been a member of the list from the beginning or just joined
today, we would really like for you to join us. We have less
politics, more Uplift talk, and more light-hearted discussion.
We're non-fattening and 100% environmentally friendly...
-(_() Though sometimes marshmallows do get thrown.

The Weekly Brin-L chat is scheduled for Wednesday 3 PM
Eastern/2 PM Central time in the US, or 7 PM Greenwich time.
There's usually somebody there to talk to for at least eight
hours after the start time. If no-one is there when you arrive
just wait around a while for the next person to show up!

If you want to attend, it's really easy now. All you have to
do is send your web browser to:

  http://wtgab.demon.co.uk/~brinl/mud/

..And you can connect directly from the NEW new web
interface!

-- 
William T Goodall
Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web  : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk
Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/

"This message was sent automatically using launchd. But even if WTG
 is away on holiday, at least it shows the server is still up."
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Getting decent news without cable or satellite TV...

[Julia Thompson]

On Tue, 4 Nov 2008, Ronn! Blankenship wrote:

> Smart-Aleck response #1 would be something about whether the news one
> gets anytime (not just election day) with or without cable or
> satellite TV could ever be described as "decent"  . . .

Are the newscasters wearing enough clothing?

Julia

___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

GOP 2012

[Alberto Monteiro]

Your heard it first from me!

Joe the Plumber 2012 for the GOP!!! :-P

Alberto Monteiro

___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Proud and relieved

[Nick Arnett]

For the first time in a long time, I'm feeling quite proud of what this
country has done.  Not simply that we chose the guy I supported, gave money
to and voted for, but that we made a strong choice for a very different
direction.  It is also because of Wes and all the rest that gave their lives
in Iraq.  Despite all my objections to that war, this, the power of our
nation to have a "peaceful revolution," is what Wes gave his life for.

It turns out that some of the other Gold Star family members were going
through the same thing I was -- anxious and tense throughout election day,
thinking of the ones they lost in the war.  I guess we just didn't realize
how deeply we connected politics to our grief.

There is one thing that Obama has done that truly, at last addresses our
grief.  He calls for a national spirit of sacrifice, finally ending the
arrogance of leadership that urged us to live life as usual -- go shopping!
-- while others carried the burdens of national defense.  Those leaders
failed to acknowledge that we are all connected; the bell tolls for thee, as
John Donne wrote, and each man's death diminishes me.  We have a new leader
who is involved with humanity and who leads others to be so involved, though
success and failure, life and death.

I am proud of what we have begun and look forward, yes, to what we can do.

Nick
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: When Atheists Attack (another in our endless series of cut-n-paste screeds)

[Bruce Bostwick]

On Nov 5, 2008, at 2:49 AM, Andrew Crystall wrote:

>> There's a huge difference between atheists, even militant ones, and
>> psychos who go around attacking other people on the basis of what  
>> religion
>> the other people subscribe to.
>
> Sorry Julia, but bullshit. It's precisely the same - attacking
> someone because they don't agree with your views. If religion, lack
> of religion, politics, creed, colour or whatever is used by the
> criminal as their excuse is quite, afaik, irrelevant.
>
> AndrewC

And the religion itself (or, in the case of atheism, the lack of it)  
isn't to blame for the violence of unstable individuals using the  
religion (or lack thereof) as an excuse or rationalization for that  
violence.  It's the emotional/psychological instability and intent to  
act violently toward others that are wrong, not the religion (or lack  
thereof) that was used by the individual to justify the violence.

(Inasmuch as some of the more extreme sects in this country do  
sometimes come close to the line of inciting violence, whether or not  
they cross it, and take advantage to some extent of the fact that the  
more unstable individuals in their margins may take certain carefully  
crafted messages to heart and run with them, providing both  
enthusiastic moral enforcers and plausible deniability for their  
actions, while at the same time capitalizing on incidents like this  
one to support their own claims that they are actually the ones being  
persecuted..)

"I don't plan on any shooting taking place during this job."  "Well,  
what you plan and what takes place ain't ever exactly been similar..."  
-- "Serenity


___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

OT: Q. on Stirling's _In the Courts of the Crimson Kings_

[Ronn! Blankenship]

Presuming that anyone here has read any of it . . .


(Pretty much spoiler-free. Please try to keep it that way!)

•
•
•



•
•
•



•
•
•



•
•
•



•
•
•



•
•
•



•
•
•


I picked it up off the "To Be Read" pile 
yesterday morning and started it.  The only 
attendee at the 1962 WorldCon who appears in the 
Prologue that I couldn't identify* immediately is 
"Frank" who appears near the top of page 
15.  Anyone able to give me an "Duh!  Of course!" moment?

_
*No, I'm not going to list all the ones I have 
seen in person (starting with the one in the very 
first word of the very first line), particularly 
all of those who no one else will have a chance to in this life . . .


. . . ronn!  :)



___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

RE: Obama and the 'Drug Killer'

[Andrew Crystall]

On 5 Nov 2008 at 10:58, Curtis Burisch wrote:

> Andrew Crystall wrote:
> 
> >> >  It seems to me that the free market does a poor job in this regard;
> >> 
> >> It seems to me the government does a poor job in this regard. I don't 
> >> want a bunch of politicians deciding which drugs to spend my money on.
> >> I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself.
> 
> >Well, that narrows down your profession nicely, Dr. Williams.
> 
> Also wrote:
> 
> >Sorry Julia, but bullshit. It's precisely the same - attacking someone
> >because they don't agree with your views. If religion, lack of religion,
> >politics, creed, colour or whatever is used by the criminal as their
> >excuse is quite, afaik, irrelevant.
> 
> Talk about confrontational behaviour, Andrew -- did you forget your coffee
> this morning?

Um, confrontational? I'm pretty happy right now actually. Something 
about a nation seeing sense in who they elected.

Anyway... I'm not shy about speaking my mind, and I've been very 
clear on the issue of people allowing their predudice to dictate how 
they feel about events simply because the word "religion" is involved 
(There's a lot of people out there who just shut down their higher 
brain functions when its mentioned).

Do I really need to give my standard spiel on tolerance on Brin-L?

Poking Dr. Williams is just sport. I freely admit to troll baiting, 
with the "whatcha gonna do about it?" subscript. As I've said before, 
this community is waaay too tolerant of that sort of thing. I do it 
with people I find narrow minded and intollerant. If I was wrong to 
label them that I end up appologising pretty quickly. Ain't happened 
in a long time.

AndrewC

___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

RE: Obama and the 'Drug Killer'

[Curtis Burisch]

Andrew Crystall wrote:

>> >  It seems to me that the free market does a poor job in this regard;
>> 
>> It seems to me the government does a poor job in this regard. I don't 
>> want a bunch of politicians deciding which drugs to spend my money on.
>> I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself.

>Well, that narrows down your profession nicely, Dr. Williams.

Also wrote:

>Sorry Julia, but bullshit. It's precisely the same - attacking someone
>because they don't agree with your views. If religion, lack of religion,
>politics, creed, colour or whatever is used by the criminal as their
>excuse is quite, afaik, irrelevant.

Talk about confrontational behaviour, Andrew -- did you forget your coffee
this morning?

Have another valium and try get some rest, huh?

As for the militant Athiest -- he could just as easily have been Muslim or
Christian. Basically, he's just a nutcase. His beliefs don't really come
into it.

C

Grumpy and tired Maru


___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: Obama and the 'Drug Killer'

[Andrew Crystall]

On 4 Nov 2008 at 7:42, John Williams wrote:

> >  It seems to me that the free market does a poor job in this regard;
> 
> It seems to me the government does a poor job in this regard. I don't
> want a bunch of politicians deciding which drugs to spend my money on.
> I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself.

Well, that narrows down your profession nicely, Dr. Williams.

AndrewC
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l

Re: When Atheists Attack (another in our endless series of cut-n-paste screeds)

[Andrew Crystall]

On 4 Nov 2008 at 8:39, Julia Thompson wrote:

> There's a huge difference between atheists, even militant ones, and 
> psychos who go around attacking other people on the basis of what religion 
> the other people subscribe to.

Sorry Julia, but bullshit. It's precisely the same - attacking 
someone because they don't agree with your views. If religion, lack 
of religion, politics, creed, colour or whatever is used by the 
criminal as their excuse is quite, afaik, irrelevant.

AndrewC
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l