On 10/27/2008 3:28:52 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
who is this country really in danger from? I say the robber barons.
Down with the robber barons! Up with the robber comrades!
Now that you mention it, that would be preferable.
On 10/27/2008 4:44:45 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Rceeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
they can make what money you have worthless.
If they means the financial industry, then no, they cannot.
If you ever end up wiping your ass with dollar bills because they are
cheaper than
Rceeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you ever end up wiping your ass with dollar bills because they are
cheaper than toilet paper, give me a call.
Government is good at printing money. Financial industry, not so much.
Get your toliet paper from Paulson!
Rceeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Down with the robber barons! Up with the robber comrades!
Now that you mention it, that would be preferable.
So long as the robber comrades have a good supply of rubber
condoms. Please bend over, sir, it is for the
On 10/27/2008 5:07:40 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Rceeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
If you ever end up wiping your ass with dollar bills because they are
cheaper than toilet paper, give me a call.
Government is good at printing money. Financial industry, not so much.
Get
On 10/27/2008 5:11:49 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Rceeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Down with the robber barons! Up with the robber comrades!
Now that you mention it, that would be preferable.
So long as the robber comrades have
William T Goodall said the following on 10/27/2008 7:23 AM:
Their could be highly efficient and competitive private militias
instead of the inefficient government monopoly paid for by taking the
money of people who don't want to pay for it.
You mean like Blackwater?
Greed and Corruption
Rceeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Government doesn't make toilet paper. Prices come from the finance industry.
My dollar bills say Federal Reserve Note and The Department of the Treasury.
What do yours say?
Dollar bills have little intrinsic value.
Must be because the government prints so many
John Williams wrote:
Bruce Bostwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
those people who -- OMGZ!!1! -- might need to depend on government
assistance for a while to avoid starving to death or living hand to
mouth in a homeless camp somewhere. I'd kind of like for those
programs to still be in existence
Claes Wallin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John Williams wrote:
That is one of the least evil forms of government spending, I agree.
Wouldn't that just be redistribution of wealth?
Yes.
Have I misunderstood that you consider redistribution of wealth bad and
spending on public goods acceptable?
I
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 4:34 PM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
I don't consider any process that involves the government forcibly taking
money from people good,
Oh, please. You live in the United States, right?. We had a revolution
against, among other things, taxation without
On Oct 27, 2008, at 1:12 PM, John Williams wrote:
Bruce Bostwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
*huge* if that, in all the times we've experimented with laissez-
faire market capitalism, has never been borne out in reality. Do we
really need to do this one more time expecting different results, or
can
Nick said:
So I don't think any of us can justify whining about being forced
to pay taxes unless there's been another revolution that I haven't
heard about.
So if you aren't forced to pay taxes, what happens if you choose not to?
Rich
___
On 10/27/2008 7:07:33 PM, Jon Louis Mann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
In case you haven't noticed, John Galt is dead.
Have you got John Galt in a case?
Who is John Galt?~)
Look him up on wikipedia.
Probably under Ayn Rand and various other nutcases.
xponent
Utopians Maru
rob
On 27 Oct 2008 at 18:52, Lance A. Brown wrote:
William T Goodall said the following on 10/27/2008 7:23 AM:
Their could be highly efficient and competitive private militias
instead of the inefficient government monopoly paid for by taking the
money of people who don't want to pay
We had a revolution
against, among other things, taxation without representation. In case you
forgot, we won.
I'd be ecstatic to go back to the taxation/spending levels of that time. Or even
the pre-war 1900's.
Whether or not we deserve the government we have, we chose it,
give or take
Andrew Crystall said the following on 10/27/2008 8:40 PM:
On 27 Oct 2008 at 18:52, Lance A. Brown wrote:
William T Goodall said the following on 10/27/2008 7:23 AM:
Their could be highly efficient and competitive private militias
instead of the inefficient government monopoly paid for by
At 04:40 PM Monday 10/27/2008, Rceeberger wrote:
On 10/27/2008 9:24:30 AM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Bruce Bostwick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
the Fed
can't really even estimate or predict how
far the repercussions of that market collapse are going to extend even
years into
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
So your position is, if a majority votes for some policy, then no one
should have a right to complain about it because the majority rules?
That's the sort of statement that results in complaints about straw man
arguments.
Rceeberger wrote:
On 10/27/2008 7:07:33 PM, Jon Louis Mann ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
In case you haven't noticed, John Galt is dead.
Have you got John Galt in a case?
Who is John Galt?~)
Look him up on wikipedia.
Probably under Ayn Rand and various other nutcases.
Umm, actually Who is John
Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM, John Williams
wrote:
So your position is, if a majority votes for some policy, then no one
should have a right to complain about it because the majority rules?
No, that's not my position. Not at all.
My position is
At 07:13 PM Monday 10/27/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote:
why, am i in danger, from who...?
No idea. Since you are down to your last refuge, I was just
trying to help redistribute the refuges.
are you really that dense, john?
I've been told I'm denser than I look. Never
measured it,
On Mon, 27 Oct 2008, John Williams wrote:
Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM, John Williams
wrote:
So your position is, if a majority votes for some policy, then no one
should have a right to complain about it because the majority rules?
No, that's not my
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So, your view of democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have
for lunch?
Nicely put.
___
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2008, John Williams wrote:
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So, your view of democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have
for lunch?
Nicely put.
Not original to me. Maybe Benjamin Franklin? Or at least I think I've
seen him credited with it, whether or not
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Not original to me. Maybe Benjamin Franklin? Or at least I think I've
seen him credited with it, whether or not he actually said it.
Good memory. It sounded familiar, but I couldn't place it. The source seems
to be somewhat obscure, but you remembered the
On Oct 26, 2008, at 2:14 PM, Jon Louis Mann straw-manned:
a lot of people called congress, against the bailout, but the people
who didn't are the sheep and they are largely those who buy into the
war and straw man attacks against obama.
I doubt very much that you actually know what was in
Folks,
On Oct 27, 2008, at 1:28 PM, John Williams wrote:
Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
who is this country really in danger from? I say the robber barons.
Down with the robber barons! Up with the robber comrades!
Please lighten up on John. He's cornered and his messages sound like
he's
John wrote
I think it is highly likely that a McCain with a Democrat dominated
Congress will spend less than a Obama with a Democrat dominated
Congress.
This might be a valid argument for me if there weren't more important
factors to take into consideration. More important to me than
John wrote:
Force does not equal choice.
Whose money is McCain going to use to pay all those bad mortgages he
promised to take care of?
Doug
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On 27 Oct 2008 at 20:23, John Williams wrote:
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So, your view of democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what to have
for lunch?
Nicely put.
Not really. This election is a flock of sheep guided by jackals
squabbling over electing a carrion bird
On 10/26/2008 12:39:28 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Anecdote seen on the internet:
Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read
'Vote Obama, I need the money.' I laughed. Once in the restaurant my
server had on a 'Obama 08' tie, again I laughed as
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, Rceeberger wrote:
http://www.sltrib.com/Opinion/ci_10815189
[snip]
* JOHN GRIZ THE CARPENTER GRISWOLD works in Salt Lake City.
(Which BTW is in about the Reddest state there is.)
And that's from a paper that's endorsing Obama.
http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10761520
On 10/26/2008 1:47:29 PM, Julia Thompson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, Rceeberger wrote:
http://www.sltrib.com/Opinion/ci_10815189
[snip]
* JOHN GRIZ THE CARPENTER GRISWOLD works in Salt Lake City.
(Which BTW is in about the Reddest state there is.)
And
Rceeberger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Even the Anchorage paper endorses Obama.
YeahI'd call that interesting
I'd call it scary. The housing market is down, the stock market
is down, and the Fed chairman and Treasury Secretary have been
fear mongering for weeks now. We need someone to ride in
and
Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
not so, the public seems to have swallowed the latest redistribution of
wealth
upwards...
More like the politicians stuffed it down our throats.
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote:
not so, the public seems to have swallowed
the latest redistribution of wealth upwards.
More like the politicians stuffed it down our throats.
and the sheep accept it, like they accepted the bush/cheny agenda, like
they believe that real threat
Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
and the sheep accept it, like they accepted the bush/cheny agenda, like they
believe that real threat to america was terrorism, and now socialism...
You wrote about the public and the sheep.
I wrote to and called my Congress representatives, before the
Let's just put an end to ALL redistribution of wealth.
Let's start with the public schools and hospitals and keep going with the
hatchet until nobody gets *anything* that they didn't pay for. Toll booths
on every road and park!
Go put a dollar in the streetlight, honey, I think the kids will be
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 12:50 PM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
I wrote to and called my Congress representatives, before the bailout
vote, to explain my opposition to the bailouts. I know a lot of other
people who did as well. And the numbers I've seen indicate that a
majority were
Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We do need need someone to ride in and save us from disaster!
God will save us, if we have faith.
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, John Williams wrote:
Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
We do need need someone to ride in and save us from disaster!
God will save us, if we have faith.
And what if we don't?
Julia
___
Nick said:
Let's start with the public schools and hospitals and keep going
with the
hatchet until nobody gets *anything* that they didn't pay for. Toll
booths
on every road and park!
You damn socialists and your free air and sunshine!
Rich
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, Richard Baker wrote:
Nick said:
Let's start with the public schools and hospitals and keep going
with the
hatchet until nobody gets *anything* that they didn't pay for. Toll
booths
on every road and park!
You damn socialists and your free air and sunshine!
Free
Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Let's just put an end to ALL redistribution of wealth.
Forced redistribution of wealth, for the sake of redistributing wealth,
definitely let's put an end to it. If government spending is for a public
good, or to provide food and shelter for those who have none,
On 10/26/2008 2:50:36 PM, Nick Arnett ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
Let's just put an end to ALL redistribution of wealth.
Let's start with
the public schools and hospitals and keep going with the
hatchet until nobody gets *anything* that they
didn't pay for. Toll booths
on every road and
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, John Williams wrote:
God will save us, if we have faith.
And what if we don't?
Then we could take responsibility and save ourselves.
Nah, too hard. Let's hope God or Obama saves us!
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 1:39 PM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Anecdote seen on the internet:
Today on my way to lunch I passed a homeless guy with a sign that read
'Vote Obama, I need the money.' I laughed. Once in the restaurant my
server had on a 'Obama 08' tie, again I laughed
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 1:00 PM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Let's just put an end to ALL redistribution of wealth.
Forced redistribution of wealth, for the sake of redistributing wealth,
definitely let's put an end to it. If government spending is
Bryon Daly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
this is not taking the waiter's entire $10 - it'd be more like maybe $.50,
Ah, I see. Taking people's money to give to others is okay if you don't
take too much.
is about how much is appropriate, a debate about a few percentage points.
Right, a few trillion
Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Surely you don't think Obama, in mentioning redistribution of wealth, was
advocating it for its own sake?
Surely you don't believe everything politicians say?
Must be nice to have millions and millions -- you can
give away a lot and still have so many houses
Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
you can't equate the two parties even if they both passed it.
Indeed I don't. More Democrats voted for it than Republicans. Definitely
not equal.
even european style socialist
democracies buy into the globalism FREE trade scam.
What a bunch of wingnuts!
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, John Williams wrote:
Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
you can't equate the two parties even if they both passed it.
Indeed I don't. More Democrats voted for it than Republicans. Definitely
not equal.
What proportion of each party voted for it?
Julia
Jon Louis Mann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
what does that say about the republicans that did not vote for it?
Hmmm, I guess it says there were more of them than Democrats.
at least those democrats who had the integrity to
vote against the bailout did so for the right reasons.
To get re-elected!
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What proportion of each party voted for it?
74.6% of Democrats in the House and Senate who cast a vote, voted aye for
HR-1424.
50.4% of voting Republicans voted aye.
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/110/house/2/votes/681/
John Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]
50.4% of voting Republicans voted aye.
Or yea. I get those quaint words confused sometimes :-)
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2008, John Williams wrote:
Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What proportion of each party voted for it?
74.6% of Democrats in the House and Senate who cast a vote, voted aye
for HR-1424.
50.4% of voting Republicans voted aye.
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 2:26 PM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Or you can be like the Obama's and give virtually none of your millions
of dollars to the less fortunate. Better to give other people's money
instead!
May I have virtually none of your money, since you apparently think
Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
May I have virtually none of your money, since you apparently think almost a
quarter of a million dollars is virtually none?
And how does that compare to McCain and Palin?
___
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 5:24 PM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Bryon Daly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
this is not taking the waiter's entire $10 - it'd be more like maybe
$.50,
Ah, I see. Taking people's money to give to others is okay if you don't
take too much.
I'm not sure what your
Bryon Daly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
are you against all forms of taxes?
No.
Do you have a better alternative?
Reduce spending.
So I think they can spare it
I think you can spare a lot more of your own money before you start
sparing mine. Or are you living in a trailer park with 4 roommates and
At 04:14 PM Sunday 10/26/2008, Jon Louis Mann wrote:
and the sheep accept it, like they
accepted the bush/cheny agenda, and
swallow that the real threat to america
was terrorism, and now is socialism...
You wrote about the public and the
sheep. I wrote to and called my Congress
On 26 Oct 2008, at 23:30, John Williams wrote:
I think you can spare a lot more of your own money before you start
sparing mine. Or are you living in a trailer park with 4 roommates and
accessing the internet through a library computer so that you can
devote
the maximum amount of your
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 7:30 PM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Bryon Daly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
are you against all forms of taxes?
No.
So to quote you from your last response:
Ah, I see. Taking people's money to give to others is okay if you don't
take too much.
Since that's
Jon Louis Mann wrote:
A Democratic congress will tax the wealthy and redistribute the
wealth to the poor and middle class.
If McCain wins he will continue GOP policies of subsidizing the corporate
state and cutting social programs. Jon
This is something I don't understand. If Obama is the
Bryon Daly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Since that's what taxes do, you think it's OK, also?
Government spending is a necessary evil that should be kept to the absolute
minimum.
But do you think McCain would be any better at that?
I think it is highly likely that a McCain with a Democrat dominated
William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Do any of your three trailer-mates snore? Are you eating OK? You might
find you can make more wealth to help others if you treat yourself a
bit better first.
The difference being, I'm not advocating forcibly taking other people's money
and
On 27 Oct 2008, at 01:16, John Williams wrote:
William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Do any of your three trailer-mates snore? Are you eating OK? You
might
find you can make more wealth to help others if you treat yourself a
bit better first.
The difference being, I'm not advocating
On Sun, Oct 26, 2008 at 6:12 PM, John Williams
[EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote:
Bryon Daly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Since that's what taxes do, you think it's OK, also?
Government spending is a necessary evil that should be kept to the absolute
minimum.
I have never understood this attitude. Why
Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro said the following on 10/26/2008 8:44 PM:
This is something I don't understand. If Obama is the anti-corporation
candidate, how he gets 2-3x more money for the campaing than
McPalin?
About 90% of Obama's fund raising comes from individuals. After
withdrawing
On 27 Oct 2008, at 02:25, Lance A. Brown wrote:
Alberto Vieira Ferreira Monteiro said the following on 10/26/2008
8:44 PM:
This is something I don't understand. If Obama is the anti-
corporation
candidate, how he gets 2-3x more money for the campaing than
McPalin?
About 90% of Obama's
William T Goodall said the following on 10/26/2008 10:38 PM:
The internet candidate. McCain doesn't know how to use a computer.
The Future Maru
Pigs Flying Maru!
We agree on something, William. :-)
--[Lance]
--
GPG Fingerprint: 409B A409 A38D 92BF 15D9 6EEE 9A82 F2AC 69AC 07B9
On 10/26/2008 8:12:54 PM, John Williams ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
That is irrelevant. I pay taxes. Anyone who says they want to take my tax
money to give to someone else, beyond the bare minimum required, should
first demonstrate their willingness to give away all of their money beyond
the
William T Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED]
So people who believe having an army, navy and air force to defend the
country should make up the shortfall in funding when the pacifists
decide they'd rather not pay for that?
Defending the country is a public good, not redistributing wealth.
Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why assume that government is
inevitably the worst way to accomplish anything?
Why assume that you or anyone can determine how other people's
money should be spent?
Seems like there are many
things that government can do better than private industry.
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